SouthOfTheBorder

he may not be celebrating - but millions of others are doing exactly that. that’s the really baffling thing; a population so brain-washed and indoctrinated that they want their own cities to fail. Common sense has been discarded & replaced with ideology that only serves the politicians & media outlets for money. They monetize the manufactured outrage - that’s why everything is reported as a crisis along with desperate pleas for money and/or attention. Its capitalism run amok without any other political beliefs , consuming itself for the elites at the very top who have no loyalty to country, party, core values or anything else except self-interest. You don’t have to look much further than the recent defamation lawsuits to know the news people don’t believe their own reporting - just taking advantage of the rubes for money. then there’s the politicians that rail against the government, yet happily take the government paycheck, government perks/benefits, travel, staff & everything else. Not a mention about that. Because it’s ok for them, but not ok for you.

born & raised in middle America. I’ve lived all over the United States and know it extremely well. It’s a country going backwards by almost any measure. It’s not unusual in a historical context. All great empires crumble and it’s almost always the direct result of internal failures that cause the collapse vs external. The United States is in the process of slow collapse - San Francisco is just a leading indicator. Americans generally don’t understand history so they aren’t connecting the dots. I wish it was different.

You obviously haven’t been to Japan recently. There’s not much there for anyone to take issue with regardless of underlying American perceptions or media reports: the country is spotless, everything works, crime is so low that’s it’s not even an issue, the people are routinely polite & tolerant. They revere and protect nature. The economy has been relatively stagnant, yet from all outward appearances it’s a very prosperous & orderly country with an overall feeling of calm & well being. No raised voices on the Tokyo subway and no horns honking in Tokyo traffic. No visible homeless population, no visible drug addicts, no wandering people in mental health crisis. In short - it’s civilized where the US is anything but.

when stories like these don’t make sense - it’s wise to consider other possible scenarios such as, perhaps you are the intended target all roads lead to the deep pockets

I can tell you are well intended here. I think hiring providers is a slippery slope for many because they want to make it something other than what it is - meaning paying for sex. It’s a huge taboo in our culture and quite unexpectedly taboo among gay men. If I had a nickel for every time one of my friends said “I don’t need to pay for sex”. I’m not exactly sure what they even means other than a passive/aggressive judgement when I’m open about my hiring. It doesn’t bother me really - but just confirms that most people think it’s wrong, even relatively liberal minded gay men. I’m of the opposite mind - I have zero shame or stigma attached to hiring providers in any context. And I don’t care who knows it. With the providers, I’ll treat them as any invited guest in my home but with a clear understanding of the transaction and what is expected. To me it’s the same as other intimate service like massage. Just because it’s sex and I’m paying for it doesn’t mean I have to craft some narrative to mentally work around it and allow myself permission to go there. I’ve literally hired hundreds of guys over the years and had some long term “relationships” yet there was never any confusion that money is what held the connection together. Of course the money isn’t always discussed - it’s more like the oxygen in the room that allows the entire transaction to happen. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

yes - this is exactly what I meant. surprisingly - very few providers make this sort of offer

try calling a provider & not paying - then see what happens it’s always about money no matter how much folks may want to obscure it with all kinds of sideways happy talk sure - it can be lovely experience and it can seem romantic, natural & bfe. you can discretely pay in an envelope or Zelle if that makes you feel better, but you’re paying for a service any way you slice it there’s no shame around any part of this - I think it’s way healthier to normalize the provider/client financial transaction without any need to make it something else or obscure it. The need to justify it in some other way means there is shame or other stigma attached by one of the participants.

well Riobard - while the tale you relate is regrettable under any circumstances, it’s entirely preventable. All banks provide numerous ways to set alerts for transactions at spending levels determined by customer & the instant function to lock the card if stolen or unauthorized charges are happening. Of course, this is dependent on the phone not being stolen too. Not being ripped off these days requires a modicum of common sense & a few reasonable preventative measures

check machofucker.com is you like these type guys lots of machofucker free content available on other sites too

I often hear Grindr, Scruff & other apps referred to as “free-sex” vs the paid providers reminder - nothing is free the typical “free” hookup takes hours to coordinate & you’ll be lucky if you don’t get robbed or an sti the apps are flooded w scam artists, thieves & drug addicts all playing on loneliness & vulnerability - especially with older men as targets crimes originating on the apps are vastly underreported because the victim is embarrassed

I will be very happy when the ban is lifted at “the other site” of course, I’m assuming it wasn’t permanent he must have really pissed off the minions

aside from kissing - assume that whatever your new sex partner is doing with you, they are doing the exact same with multiple others especially anyone from the apps. it's a well known Petri dish prep, condoms, peeing right after & a thorough shower will all mitigate. not romantic, but the reality

A fool & his money are soon parted Take your money & go to S America or Europe. Better men, better service, better everything

evidently some here are unfamiliar with the dynamics at play in due time you’ll have a better sense a leopard doesn’t change its spots

Lol - you’re making it sound like some sort of discrete geisha experience. For the regulars I know that’s kind of how it works to a point If the provider doesn’t know you - it’s frequently a demand for deposit or payment upfront. There’s dozens of threads here about exactly this. Among the other assorted scam artists, thieves & drug addicts that taint the entire industry It’s funny how so many people on both ends of these transactions want to pretend it’s anything but that. On the “other site” there’s the delusionals opining about their Brazilian/Thai boyfriends and wondering if they’re in it for the money. Seriously ? WTF The boyfriend experience has that name for a reason. Even with the regulars I’ve known for 15+ years - we both know it’s about 💰

Yeah - I shouldn’t have muddied it up w references to loyalty programs when it’s really more about discounts for multiple hour sessions. I was thinking that would be offered to only best clients, thus the confusion. Yes, there’s a few guys that do offer multi-hour discounts in a clear way, but vast majority don’t. I’m always curious about marketing & efficiencies when looking at different business types - and how to do it better. A single hour is definitely not my preference - but at $400-$500 per hour it gets very expensive fast. Forces me to think about it more & go with my established regulars where I know exactly what will happen. Too much risk to try someone new at those prices. And then there’s the tip. I was always told tips are for people that work for a business and don’t realize the full payment for services, like someone working in a hair salon that is not the owner - that person would be tipped. The owner of the business would not be tipped because they don’t split the fee for service with anyone else. Somehow we’ve entered an era in the US where everyone everywhere is tipped. And I’m a good tipper with wait staff usually getting 25-30%+ because I have a sense of their hourly wage - same with any other service people at low wages. I do tip providers, but 20% on top of $400-$500 is really getting out there. i definitely do not hire US domestically as often as in previous years. When I travel it’s another story - anywhere in Europe is way more reasonable & that just doesn’t seem to make any sense.

one of the major problems in the US now is there are many people cheering on the urban problems in big cities that they perceive to be run by those with different ideologies or political beliefs. It’s truly a unique American phenomenon where citizens are actually all in on the demise of the very places that drive the economy. I can’t imagine the same thing happening in Japan with an organized movement to cheer on urban problems in Tokyo or Osaka…or even worse, to celebrate the collapse of a major city. Theyre actually way too smart for that. As Americans continue to wage war with one another - they’re doing the work of America’s enemies. Typical that everything becomes a talking point for political purposes. And that’s why the country is circling the drain. Pathetic

Loyalty or incentive programs done right align with the goals of the business or individual making the offer - and it also deliver something of value to the client. If the business or individual loses something in the offer, then it’s either not conceived or executed properly. let’s say I’m a provider in NYC that has a goal of 2 appointments per day (with 2 days off per week) & does outcalls at $400 per hour. And in a typical day, I have one appointment at 1p downtown and another at 7p uptown, making $800 total for the day. And now let’s say instead of 2 appointments that break up my day requiring me to get ready twice (shower, douche, trimix or whatever) and travel - I can do one appointment of 2hours at $675, or pay for 2 get 3 at $800 - and I don’t need to break up the day or get ready twice. Which makes more sense ? I’ve offered a small discount or incentive to get back a good portion of a day or evening. And I’ve only dealt with one “better” client that I’ve selected for the offer. while the provider business model does not directly translate from other businesses - one core idea holds true which is to cultivate the very best clients and incentivize them to keep coming back & spending more. The transactional nature of the business is something the provider would like to understandably obscure - I can assure you from the client pov that there is no mystery: If the financial transaction doesn’t happen - the provider doesn’t show up. may be a very different calculation if the provider is doing incalls only & the travel component is not in the mix

I think most aren’t good at the business/marketing end of the business. just like artists who struggle with the business side when they are essentially creative people there are exceptions and those guys are easily identified by their longevity & good reputations. my sense is lots of people come & go - and some may go in only as a short term thing

the thought came to me today against a backdrop of increasing provider rates of $400-$500 per hour as new norm in major cities. And, at the same time I’m getting pinged by some providers asking me to book. So, there appears to be a new rate threshold in place for providers but a drop in actual business to those providers (I never got the pings before very recent). Getting to $400-$500 per hour takes many clients out of the market. Incentives to make it more palatable might keep more of them in. I’m curious - what is the standard booking if not an hour ? Successful providers with regulars would get more longer sessions, yet almost all advertise RM by the hour

I've often thought how I would run my business if I was a provider - it seems there is alot invested in the one hour standard meeting. As an example - I'd offer 3hours for 2 hours paid. Same time required for getting ready & to travel to/from. And the money has been doubled without much effort on providers end. Assuming this is offered to known select clients, it probably means cocktails & socializing anyway. Lots of ways to incentivize the best clients to book more frequently & perhaps increase per session spend. it's all about being creative

lots of businesses use loyalty programs to keep their best customers and encourage more spending. similarly, many target their most desirable potential customer base & offer special discounts as incentives to try a new business given this forum is a target-rich pool for providers - I’m wondering if any providers offer specials to forum members ? seems like it would be worthwhile because both parties are known entities to some degree and takes a lot of risk out of the equation just a thought - never hurts to try something new

other than promo codes, previews and early buying - what other discount tricks can you recommend ?

pRep is for hiv only and that’s not the issue. gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis & a variety of others are a concern for me. drug resistant strains of all those stis are on the rise. my aim is to minimize my chances for sti exposure yet still engage with others sexually in a selective way safer sex practices (or not) are strictly personal choices and all goes to an individual’s level of risk tolerance - hopefully based on some real data and sexual literacy. The rate of sti transmission for oral sex is historically very low. The rate of sti transmission for unprotected anal sex is exponentially much higher - and that becomes unacceptable for me. many people can have an active sti infection & are asymptomatic - they wouldn’t know they have it & can then innocently transit to the next person. when evaluating sex-workers, I’ll go with the guys that prioritize their own health & well-being over everything else

I could have said it better. I meant things like available hours (not 24/7), an emphasis on safe sex or “no bareback”, if they prefer advance scheduling or same day only, hygiene comments, etc I use it to gauge level of professionalism - and yes, demands in excess of reasonable are also a NO the big ones for me are drug use and unsafe sexual practices. not a prude, but a professional sex-worker just can’t afford the downtime due to inevitable sti if doing anything goes with all clients: translates to excessive risk-taking & poor judgment in my view