Simon Suraci

Thank you, I will try again soon using the email method and report back.

I saw Steve once. He’s a nice sexy guy. A little too sexual for me personally, and not particularly great with the therapeutic side of the experience. I’m particular though and have very high standards, so take that with a grain of salt. He’s ok overall, but great if you want to push the envelope on the erotic end. As always, YMMV.

^This. I get this frustration from some of my clients. They love and value my work and see me over and over, but a lot of times I’m booked. Same day / last minute requests for very specific times are often not feasible. The more notice you can give, the better chance your masseur can see you when you want to have your appointment.

You’re welcome. I’m glad the post helped shed some light on the dynamics of pricing. I’m not here to convince anyone that they should necessarily be paying $400/hr across the board in 2023, but hope to give some context for how some providers land on a high number. If anything, I think the baseline number right now in 2023 is $300, before applying a myriad of factors to push it lower or higher. Some may disagree, and that’s fine, it’s just my opinion. Even $300 is high for many folks, and particularly harsh on those accustomed to paying closer to $200 just one or two decades ago. You will always find lower numbers and higher numbers, sometimes with no correlation to a subjective notion of quality. That’s just the nature of the beast. It’s up to the client to shop around, do some homework and determine his own measure of value and apply it to his specific situation. Between the choices available, he can decide who is the best fit for him. If ALL of the available choices cost too much, that’s the client’s problem, not a market problem. As always, COM is an excellent resource to do said homework. Your peers have seen the men you are considering hiring. Their intel is invaluable for helping you steer clear of the duds, and toward the men who are going to bring the most value to you. At the end of the day, you should feel really happy you hired, like it was a worthwhile amazing experience, money well spent. Homework can’t guarantee this result for you, but the effort of shopping around greatly improves your chances of success. With the above in mind, I encourage thinking about maximizing the value a provider brings to you rather than minimizing the cost of hiring altogether. If you’re going to drop any number of hundreds of dollars, it should be for the right experience for you.

In the United States, this is the minimum. If you’re hiring for less, good for you, but it’s not really sustainable for most, unless the guy works more than one job, perhaps in another field, or does OF or porn or dances or whatever. Let’s go, for the sake of argument, with the assumption your working guy does this full time exclusively. If a working guy has, on average, one client a day for 5 days a week, every single week of the year, that’s only $65k/yr!!! In what universe would I quit a professional entry level job to do that? In many areas of the country outside of middle America even 65k is not enough anymore to buy a house and/or live well. Hundreds of dollars per visit may be a lot to some clients, but you should consider the implications: you’re asking the provider to not work in other professions so he can be available to you at all hours of the day and night, on short notice, weekends, overnights, single hours, travel to you, spend hours responding promptly to countless inquiries, market himself, etc etc etc. He may go to the gym at 2pm, but that’s no matter. Maintaining his image is also an important part of the job. It’s work too. This a full time job, and you’re demanding he work it for the equivalent of $65k/yr. That’s livable in some areas, but obviously not at all compelling compared to many other “normal” middle class jobs. Yes, your man can have multiple clients a day, but let’s say even double (which is not realistic every single working day of the year btw), that’s still $130k. A great living, but still not compelling when you have skills and education in other fields and can make close to that amount in those fields, and gain a lot more security and respect over the long term. Let’s not forget that there is a time limit to how long most providers can demand the rates they do. You’re also demanding in your $250/hr max that a man put his potential other careers on hold and not advance in those fields for the sake of working for clients like you right now. There’s an opportunity cost to consider there. Not having skills and experience in other fields gives you less opportunity to earn a good living later in life. A guy in his 20s can demand a lot more because of his looks than a working man in his 50s, even if the older guy is an excellent provider. However the 20 something is taking a premium now in exchange for less opportunity later. In theory he can save, invest and make smart decisions to help him later on. I know some blow it all, but a smart one can leverage his short term premium earnings for success over the long term. And yes I acknowledge there’s always a market for each type, including older, it’s just who is able to consistently demand a certain rate based on mass appeal and still make a decent living over the course of their life. Taxes are another discussion. I pay taxes. Others may not pay on all their income, but even still, we’re not talking gobs more money vs if they did pay taxes on 100% of their income. You have to pay something, otherwise the IRS is suspicious and comes after you. Sidebar that topic, already discussed elsewhere. Just want to acknowledge taxes are a consideration, although not a big enough factor to consider when discussing the bigger question of minimum/maximum rates. Then there’s the matter of traveling providers. We’ve discussed it as nauseum elsewhere, but I want to acknowledge that traveling around to different cities has significant costs. That cuts into the bottom line. Whatever he might be saving on reporting a fraction of his full income he’s certainly spending on travel costs, and then some. Not to mention the cost of multiple online ads and other expenses. Now, for the sake of argument, let’s assume your working man has other income streams. Whether that be OF, porn, dancing, massage, other professional career, etc. He makes a decent living between his hustle and his other revenue streams, so he’s less desperate to get clients at any lowball price. In theory he doesn’t need to charge a high rate because his other income streams make up the difference. Maybe $250 is just fine for him in that case. However, the opposite is actually true. It makes less sense for him to do a lot for little gain, because he doesn’t need to. If his OF or other revenues are bringing in tens of thousands a year or more, he has less incentive to do the rough and dirty challenging work of taking on a diverse array of in-person clients. If he is seeing traditional escort clients, he’s doing it at a rate that is worth his time and energy. That rate has to be compelling enough to influence him to take on work he otherwise doesn’t have to because he makes a decent living without it. Maybe that rate is $300 or $400 or something else. So what if he has much fewer clients? It doesn’t actually matter to him because he isn’t relying on one income from those clients. A few clients take him on at his higher rate and then he has even less reason to work for less, considering he could take half as many clients and make the same! All of these reasons and more contribute to the prices being what they are today. It’s not a random high number designed to piss you off. It’s based on market forces and global changes in the industry. If you want to hire for an unrealistic maximum, good luck to you. The pool of guys willing to entertain you at that rate will continue to get smaller and smaller over time. They exist, and you’re not wrong for hiring them, but you are wrong to place an unreasonable rate cap expectation on the whole industry.

Traveling guys may differ from normal. They tend to have a captive audience depending on where they’re going and how long they’re staying. If few good options are normally available in a given market, that can drive up demand, and with it, prices. When I travel, I keep my prices constant and have no lack of appointments filling my schedule from morning to night. At least twice as many same day requests I have to turn down because I’m booked. I could easily charge more based on that high demand but I prefer having plenty of others ready and willing to snatch an appointment when someone else cancels or no-shows. Pricing is not a barrier to seeing me as much as availability is, so I fill in those spots very quickly with same day requests. Suddenly people get a lot less picky about start time when there’s one spot left, take it or leave it. $200+ for (1) hour of *actual* massage is bonkers. At that rate bracket, I would expect a lot of extras, rip-off schemes, unskilled massages, time shorting, or other unprofessional shenanigans. I charge $195 for 90 mins and it’s truly an excellent massage. My 60 min massage is $140. A lot of other pro masseurs hover between $120-$160. Much more than that and something is not right. Either that, or you’re getting much more than massage and you’re paying for it. Which is fine by the way, it’s just not fair to compare with regular massage sessions. It’s a different service. Apples and oranges. I acknowledge local markets differ. NYC, LA, SF and others will naturally be much higher across the board.

Ok fine, I won’t take it so seriously then 😜. We’ve all heard plenty from Jarrod about his frustration with clients, with no resolution. Let clients have a turn! Scream away…into the void…along with many fellow frustrated commiserators. And when you’re done, hire! 🤠

It just seems to me like we have some version of this discussion in the hiring section all the time. I’m fine with it here, but it’s so closely related to the other section’s topics.

Stop complaining. Hire the lower cost providers according to your budget, or suck it up and hire the higher cost providers (if you really want them), or don’t hire at all. It’s that simple. It’s not the providers’ problem if you can’t pay or don’t want to pay what the markets support. Save more, make more, or hire less often. Simple as that. We could boycott gas because we think it’s too expensive. That won’t make the cost go down because global demand remains stable. We all have direct and indirect transportation needs which contribute to that stable demand. Same with hiring!

@RadioRob Can we move this topic to the questions about hiring section?

I don’t see any problems with what he did except where he brings in his employer into the commentary and content. Saying things about your boss or coworkers in this context is unacceptable. The rest is fine!

Devil’s advocate here. So… if a single provider makes you cum twice or more in one session, should you be paying that one provider more? 😜 Hint: tip your top performing boys. The way I view it is you’re paying for a unique and worthwhile experience regardless of the number of times you cum, or even if you cum at all! Also, any given orgasm can be rushed, lackluster, or given in a suboptimal way. Arguably the provider (if you’re paying for sex work) should get you off, but really you’re technically not paying for orgasms or a quantity thereof, rather the experience overall of being with one or more men for a certain period of time. Some of my erotic massage clients get a mind blowing happy middle and a happy ending. Yet, they’re paying me half as much per hour or less than I should be charging for escort work. If we’re talking orgasms as a measure of value, I’m way underpaid. But I don’t see it that way. All this to say that quantity of orgasms is not a good or fair way to charge, or to pay, or to set expectations, for your hired men services. This applies regardless of the number of men you hire for a given session. It’s all about the experience and what value you find in having it, and also what is equitable for the men who are spending their valuable time giving you a premium service. If you can’t afford multiple, I get it, don’t hire multiple. If you find value in the experience of hiring multiple and you can afford it, then hire multiple. If you don’t find a commensurate value in hiring multiple, I get that too, and in that case only hire solo. For some men, the one orgasm while having a really special experience with multiple hires is well worth two or more solo hires. It’s all in how you value the experience, and if that value matches up to paying equitable rates for each hired man. When those match, why not go for it?

Sometimes it’s slightly less to hire as a couple vs both individually. Depends on the duo. I would ask the one you like better directly if you can hire him solo. The worst he will say is no. In that case you can still hire them as a couple or leave it at that and move on. No big deal.

Wow, you cats really did make something out of nothing. Nice 👍

I wouldn’t bring it up. Lots of men match on Scruff and never meet or chat. I wouldn’t ruin the hiring relationship you have now by mentioning it. Doing so implies you’re expecting him to offer you his time and talent for free because you maybe might have matched on that one platform that one time… If anything take it as a compliment and put it in the back of your mind. He probably doesn’t even remember.

Yeah… that’s steep for “therapeutic only”. Be wary of guys like this. If you have a straight fantasy fetish and he scratches your itch, go for it, but be prepared to pay a heck of a lot more for what you actually want. More like regular escort rates or higher. You’re not hiring someone like this for massage only, otherwise you would likely go with a skilled provider who charges close to going market rates. If you want extras, be prepared to pay much more than the advertised $220/hr, which is already above market to begin with…. Remember, guys like this have multiple income streams from OF, porn, and other platforms. They don’t need to charge realistic rates because this is not their main living. They can get away with charging a lot more than a reasonable market rate because they’re only taking a select limited few who are willing to pay for a specific straight fantasy “scene”. He’s an apple, while most of the other guys are oranges. Evaluate accordingly. Haven’t seen him but please do share if your experience is contrary to my assumptions based on reading the ad. Also curious if the massage is any good because usually the focus for this type of guy is not massage. Bonus if he’s actually good!

Various service providers from barbers, to hairstylists, to massage therapists and more use Booksy and are located all over. You might not find a large selection of service providers to search from in a given smaller city, but your massage guy (or other) can use Booksy anywhere. I even use it when I’m traveling, although my current imperfect solution is to block off my schedule over certain days so that my Dallas clients don’t book me when I’m in Oklahoma City, Houston, Austin, or elsewhere. Haven’t figured out a better way to do this yet since the service is primarily geared toward single location brick and mortar setups.

Yes, Booksy works very well for my massage clients. I include service descriptions, rates, automated self booking, schedule availability, and clients post unsolicited reviews directly to the site. You can even pay remotely online before or after your visit if you like. Everything is integrated. Even my Stripe card reader is integrated. I currently don’t leverage all of the marketing features but that has a lot of potential too. Overall, Booksy keeps me much more organized and saves me time, and saves clients time. A percentage of my clients really enjoy the streamlined service and use it enthusiastically. No texting or waiting for responses. All the info is there and it’s instant and convenient. Heck, a client can book me in the middle of the night while I’m asleep and I’m ready for them them the next morning. Most clients insist on the old school method of texting me 20 questions and then asking for an appointment, bla, bla, bla. More back and forth about availability….Then text again asking to reschedule, or cancel…I do it all for them on Booksy in much the same way they could do it themselves if they wanted to. All the info is there, so if they want to reschedule for another available time, they can just look and do it in a couple clicks. The savvy guys (and women) visit my site and find it much more convenient. They only text for very specific questions or to confirm something, or just to say hi. It’s really easy to use and makes communication higher quality because we’re only talking about things they actually need my attention to answer. Cuts down on a lot of unnecessary back and forth for those savvy clients. I don’t advertise every service explicitly, so clients still need to text me for that, but I still use the system to organize my schedule availability and contacts. I can even see under each client what they booked in the past and what they have booked in the future so that I can recommend services when they are inquiring again. If you want, we can start another thread on Booksy and other booking services. It’s a whole other topic worthy of discussion.

There is no universal answer. It varies with every masseur. I recommend asking for exactly what you want and see what the masseur says. General inquiries like “what does your massage include?” puts the burden on the masseur to name everything under the sun -sexual or otherwise- that he will or will not include. It’s exhausting answering this question over and over and over. The client knows full well what they want. They just aren’t willing to ask for it and it wastes our time to respond to such general questions. Here are a few examples of more specific questions to ask: “Do you include a happy ending?” ”Do you allow mutual touch?” ”Do you offer body to body massage?” FYI happy ending means a hand job only unless you specifically discuss other details. He may not offer more, and if he does, be clear on any uncharges for the extra service. Some may charge their full escort rate depending on your needs and expectations. All good things to know before booking.

If you’re looking for full service to occur in the same hour l but want half of that hour to be a massage or a massage “scene”, you should expect to pay the same hourly rate as hiring an escort. Equitable rates for equivalent services. If you want an actual full body massage that lasts an hour or more, expect to pay for that service on its own which may come to around half the rate of an hour of full service PLUS the full service rate, which may last up to an hour beyond when your massage time ends. Discuss with your provider of course. If you’re getting a deal, good for you, but I would expect to pay something along these lines: Example two hour session: 1 hr massage = $150 1 hr full service = $300 Total = $450 Example one hour session: 1/2 hr “massage” = included 1/2 hr full service = $300 Total = $300

Tip: douche as normal. The shower nozzle is preferable to the bulb types (my opinion). After you’re running clear, stay in the tub/shower or wherever you are and lay on your left side. Lift up your chest. This helps collect extra water from your lower intestine and flush it down toward your rectum and out of the body. Do this a few times alternating between sitting, standing and laying again. Move your chest up and down as you lay on your side. It helps expedite the process of eliminating the extra water. Take extra time to move around switching body positions and wait for it to drain. You can’t rush the process without risk of an accident later.

This guy looks just like my best friend. He’s an American army vet and bi. Maybe I can convince him to start working…🤔

So sad.

I don’t see the point in posting statements like these to ads. The time wasters are going to do what they do regardless. If anything, they are the least likely of anyone to read and understand -much less respect- the statement, or anything else in the ad. If someone can’t afford to hire and they know full well they can’t, they still reach out and waste time asking a bunch of questions. Hiring is a fantasy. Engaging a provider makes that fantasy feel more real, even if you don’t meet the guy. I get it, and I can’t stop people from doing this. It’s just part of the business I have to deal with on a daily basis by filtering out the bad apples when they start showing red flags. As soon as they do, I make my best effort to decline them politely end the conversation. When necessary, I go the extra step and block them. Meanwhile, by including statements like the above on the ad, you put off some of the would be serious clients by making them feel like they’re bothering you. Not everyone who contacts you is going to book you. That’s normal. No amount of complaining or disclaimers is going to change that behavior.

Various translations: “I couldn’t be bothered to tell you I can’t fulfill your appointment.” “This gig is much more important to me than your appointment.” “I expect you to have huge gaps of flexible, unplanned availability for me.” “I intentionally double booked hoping one commitment would fall through.” “I intentionally didn’t bother to check my schedule, and by doing so, I unintentionally double booked. Deal with it.”