Do you reveal your race to your masseurs/escorts?

[nynakedtop]

That's the point - the outcome isn't the same. Not hiring an Asian escort doesn't have the same outcome of unprosecuted lynching of African-Americans through the 20's or shooting of African-Americans by some law enforcement today. Individual discrimination (not saying this isn't a problem potentially) isn't the same as systemic oppression.

and personal enactments of white supremacy are both the product and perpetuator of systemic white supremacy....

[+ oldNbusted]

Yes. I was replying to your post. I don't agree with the comment, it's a distinction without a difference. I think there is a difference.

 

Yes, I understand you hit reply to my post, but you didn't reply to what I wrote. You claimed I said something I didn't say, then argued against that false statement. That's a fallacious argument called a straw man.

[P Gren]

Yes, I understand you hit reply to my post, but you didn't reply to what I wrote. You claimed I said something I didn't say, then argued against that false statement. That's a fallacious argument called a straw man.

Nope. I responded directly and clearly to your direct and clear statement. We may just have to agree to disagree and move on.

[+ oldNbusted]

Nope. I responded directly and clearly to your direct and clear statement. We may just have to agree to disagree and move on.

 

It's not a matter of agreeing to disagree, it's about having an honest conversation. Not everyone can swing it.

[P Gren]

It's not a matter of agreeing to disagree, it's about having an honest conversation. Not everyone can swing it.

True. I value honest communication. In the spirit of curiosity, you can PM me about where it is you think that I misconstrued what you said. I don't want to take up other people's time.

[Stormy]

I once say an ad that stipulated no blacks, asians or redheads. I wouldn't waste my time on anyone with such a limited view of sex

[nynakedtop]

I once say an ad that stipulated no blacks, asians or redheads. I wouldn't waste my time on anyone with such a limited view of sex

i fear that it's not just about sex.....

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I once say an ad that stipulated no blacks, asians or redheads. I wouldn't waste my time on anyone with such a limited view of sex

 

No gingers?

 

Who the fuck are these heathens?!?

[Stormy]

No gingers?

 

Who the fuck are these heathens?!?

Hah. I am a redhead as well!

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

[Guy Fawkes]

Perhaps you should consider transitioning to "American." I suspect that George will have your back.

 

 

Now if you said: "Klingon/Romulan American" that might raise a few eyebrows. Oh, and yes, your being crazy.

 

Do you reveal your race to your masseurs or escorts when booking?

 

I'm Asian American and admittedly a little neurotic about how my race is perceived in the gay community after years of experiencing tons of negativity.

 

I'm in my 30s and in decent shape, which I don't disclose because I feel that's "acceptable." But I always disclose my background, usually in the form of "I'm Asian, is that okay?" For the record, no one has ever said no, but in hook-up situations (which I know these aren't), I always reveal it right off the bat. I also don't respond to say, a Craigslist ad or Grindr post unless they specifically say "seeking Asians" (I don't even reply to ads that say "open to race").

 

I've just read/experienced instances where guys thought an Asian guy was Caucasian and felt "tricked." I have an equally neurotic fear of rejection (especially based on race) which is why I always disclose.

 

I disclosed to the last masseur while booking, and he asked why I did it and thought it was "weird." But then again I just read a thread here about a local masseur who reportedly doesn't serve Asians. It would be my biggest nightmare if I booked him and he rejected me after opening the door.

 

Maybe I'm just being crazy, but does anyone else do this?

[+ quoththeraven]

From the point of view of the person involved, not his/her family and friends, which is worse: death or continued suffering? What if society doesn't even perceive the suffering as suffering, tells you it's your own fault or that it's not so bad because life is unfair and other people have it bad too?

 

I don't think the answer is as easy or cut and dried as has been suggested.

 

Also, everyone should read Octavia Butler's book Kindred, which I just finished, or the recent graphic novel version, about a Black woman who travels back in time (involuntarily and more than once) to save a white slave-owning ancestor of hers.

[+ Avalon]

I once say an ad that stipulated no blacks, asians or redheads. I wouldn't waste my time on anyone with such a limited view of sex

 

I would think that an escort would be able to overcome all prejudices; diversity is the spice of life. The world would be rather bland if everyone looked alike.

 

I once told a Sikh friend that it was he who put the "Indo" in "Indo-European".

[mike carey]

I once told a Sikh friend that it was he who put the "Indo" in "Indo-European".

Indo-European refers to languages not race.

[Rod Hagen]

There is of course no such obligation, yet most email inquiries include name, race, age, extras, and describe what they are looking for/enjoy.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Rod Hagen

[+ Avalon]

Indo-European refers to languages not race.

 

Right!. I was being humorous with him.

[Drained Empty]

That's the point - the outcome isn't the same. Not hiring an Asian escort doesn't have the same outcome of unprosecuted lynching of African-Americans through the 20's or shooting of African-Americans by some law enforcement today. Individual discrimination (not saying this isn't a problem potentially) isn't the same as systemic oppression.

 

Just to clarify a bit of history here. Just the other day was the anniversary of the Massacre of 1871 where 20 Chinese men where lynched by an angry white mob in Los Angeles. And Asians today are by no means immune from violence at the hands of whites, blacks, latinos and of course other Asians. All minority groups have suffered.

 

I personally think in the gay community, the anti-Asian attitudes exceed anti-black attitudes, but obviously there's no way to quantify that.

 

I came across the most horrific Tumblr the other day (google real world asian raceplay) and there are straight versions of that site as well. It shocked me that kind of thinking is perpetuated by whites and Asians.

[+ Avalon]

Our homosexuality ought to unite us all. We have a common brotherhood.

[P Gren]

Just to clarify a bit of history here. Just the other day was the anniversary of the Massacre of 1871 where 20 Chinese men where lynched by an angry white mob in Los Angeles. And Asians today are by no means immune from violence at the hands of whites, blacks, latinos and of course other Asians. All minority groups have suffered.

 

I personally think in the gay community, the anti-Asian attitudes exceed anti-black attitudes, but obviously there's no way to quantify that.

 

I came across the most horrific Tumblr the other day (google real world asian raceplay) and there are straight versions of that site as well. It shocked me that kind of thinking is perpetuated by whites and Asians.

That's important information to remind us all of, thanks for that. And further elaborates the point I was making.

[Drained Empty]

Our homosexuality ought to unite us all. We have a common brotherhood.

 

If this were true.

 

Edited to add: I had a lengthy post written but removed it because other posters who were previously supportive/understanding have since accused me of playing a victim, despite previously sharing their own brushes with racially motivated responses. Maybe one day I'll post what I wrote.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Drained Empty

[+ sync]

Another consideration is that the U.S. has become fertile ground for intolerances catering to just about every human fear, misconception, and bigotry. The November 2018 elections have a lot of work to do.

[boiledeggz]

Well I did read your comment, and you called me out by screen name for whatever reason. No one is denying that racism exists in all kinds of spaces or "taking back" support. My issue has always been your reaction to slights both real and perceived. I will NEVER understand why you would play into the "derential" Asian stereotype. As for going to various venues with other gays present....If I'm paying, I'm going to sit my ass wherever the hell I want. Why do you care if you are labelled a "creeper" if you aren't doing anything creepy? If you live your life to accommodate everyone else's prejudice, then you've already been defeated. I will never stoop to that level, ever. If I'm not doing anything wrong, I will not apologize for not doing anything. That's silly. It seems you can't comprehend that point.

Edited March 26, 2018 by boiledeggz

[Guy Fawkes]

and one day perhaps you'll stop playing the race card in a room full of faggots.

 

 

If this were true.

 

Edited to add: I had a lengthy post written but removed it because other posters who were previously supportive/understanding have since accused me of playing a victim, despite previously sharing their own brushes with racially motivated responses. Maybe one day I'll post what I wrote.

[Drained Empty]

Well I did read your comment, and you called me out by screen name for whatever reason. No one is denying that racism exists in all kinds of spaces or "taking back" support. My issue has always been your reaction to slights both real and perceived. I will NEVER understand why you would play into the "derential" Asian stereotype. As for going to various venues with other gays present....If I'm paying, I'm going to sit my ass wherever the hell I want. Why do you care if you are labelled a "creeper" if you aren't doing anything creepy? If you live your life to accommodate everyone else's prejudice, then you've already been defeated. I will never stoop to that level, ever. If I'm not doing anything wrong, I will not apologize for not doing anything. That's silly. It seems you can't comprehend that point.

 

I comprehend just fine. Don't insult my intelligence because I have never insulted yours.

 

What follows will probably make you (and others) cringe, because I know you don't share the same views. Maybe you're enlightened. Maybe you're in denial. Maybe a bit of both. But here we go.

 

The reason I act "deferential" is simple; it's been ingrained. Most minority/immigrants are instructed from childhood to assimilate, to fit in. We are taught not to offend, and if we do -- even when we've done nothing wrong -- to apologize. Whiteness is epitomized; Asianness (or blackness, etc.) is marginalized. This is heightened in our society, where whiteness is seen as desirable and the ideal. That's why many Asian women (and our gay brothers) go after white guys. Not only are they seen as physically desirable, they're a ticket into whiteness. Your skin color will never grant you entry, but perhaps your partner will. In the gay community, this is heightened to the nth degree as 95+% of the media and advertising promotes white beauty. Not only that, but Asianness is demoted. Asian men are emasculated, "supported" by the fact that biologically we tend to be smaller (a non-masculine trait). We are "othered."

 

We are categorized as all the same, hence the frequency of seeing "no Asians." Anything white? Fine. Anything Asian? "No." Categorically "no."

 

Others take it to extremes, saying "no Chinks/Gooks" (reducing us to a slur), or "no rice" (reducing us to not even humans). In bars, clubs, and especially spas, social mores and political correctness go out the window under the pretense of "preference." And while it's still unpolite to say "get away from me" -- again, even if we've done nothing wrong -- it's acceptable to repeatedly clear out a room when an Asian enters, sigh, roll your eyes, glare, intimidate, etc.

 

Take pride, you say. Grow some balls! It's very difficult to break free from something so ingrained. On top of that, whites have power. That's why they're called the alpha gays. For God's sake they have so much power they've completely taken over Korean spas in LA, SF, and NYC. KOREAN Spas. It's why I reveal my race to masseurs. It's why I let whites claim space. They have power, specifically the power of rejection and "othering" me. Sometimes, I'll have moments of defiance or anger or activism and say something. Which, as you've pointed out, only makes things worse because then I sound "crazy." I am told "it's my fault." Or you get shamed for playing the "race card" (see post above). And its not just those in power. Asians do it themselves. For those with your views, Asians who are "deferential" are weak. For those with my views, we're just tired of fighting the system. I get walked out on in every visit. It gets tiring. I let the people with power be.

 

We have no leaders. Not to get too political, but look at BLM. African Americans have been fighting for civil rights for decades and are still trying to get recognized. Asians were enslaved as well and we're barely scratching the surface when it comes to political rights and recognition, much less in the socio/sexual sphere. And definitely not in the LGBT sphere, as many Asian families disavow or don't discuss gayness.

 

That, my friend, is why we as a whole are "defeated." Not just me.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Drained Empty

[Guy Fawkes]

@Drained Empty Tone it down, Final Warning.