"Serena Williams would rank only 700th if she played with men..."

[marylander1940]

Defiant John McEnroe Won’t Apologize to Serena Williams

 

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/defiant-john-mcenroe-wont-apologize-serena-williams-160648447.html

[+ sync]

Uh-oh! Could we be on the verge of another King/Riggs type showdown?

[+ purplekow]

Well he also said that he would be rated about 1200, so he admits that she would likely beat him. Not to mention that she is pregnant.

[Kevin Slater]

Not to mention that she is pregnant.

 

Wait-- so she does play with men.

 

Kevin Slater

[+ purplekow]

Wait-- so she does play with men.

 

Kevin Slater

I believe so but turkey basters are readily available at Bed Bath and Beyond.

[body2body]

Back in the late 90s the Williams Sisters played an exhibition match at the Austrailian open with a male player ranked below 200th. He played one set against each sister and beat them both.

[marylander1940]

Well he also said that he would be rated about 1200, so he admits that she would likely beat him. Not to mention that she is pregnant.

 

yes, now because he's old.

 

He was referring to her as a tennis player, regardless of her being pregnant or not.

[+ WilliamM]

Back in the late 90s the Williams Sisters played an exhibition match at the Austrailian open with a male player ranked below 200th. He played one set against each sister and beat them both.

 

Who was the male player? For all we know it could have been Patrick Rafter or Lleyton Hewitt at the beginning of their respective careers.

 

McEnroe is on a book tour. And he can be an asshole, as I have witnessed in person. He is and was both a great player and very good announcer.

 

If McEnroe means that Serena Williams could not win many best three out of five set matches vs. men at the grand slams tournaments, I agree.

[+ oldNbusted]

Who was the male player? For all we know it could have been Patrick Rafter or Lleyton Hewitt at the beginning of their respective careers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_Williams#Battle_of_the_Sexes:_Karsten_Braasch_vs_the_Williams_sisters

 

A 16-year-old Serena competed in a tennis "Battle of the Sexes", along with her sister Venus Williams, against Karsten Braasch at the 1998 Australian Open. At the time Braasch was ranked 203rd. The Williams sisters had claimed they could beat any man outside the top 200, and he accepted the challenge. Not known for having an ideal training regimen, Braasch nonetheless beat both Williams sisters, playing a single set against each. The score vs Serena was 6–1 and vs Venus 6–2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance." The girls later tweaked the number to beating men outside the top 350.

 

I am so glad things I said when I was 16 aren't following me around the rest of my life.

 

Having said that, I'm not fan of Serena, I don't like how graceless she has been to her opponents over the years, but her record speaks for itself and Johnny Mac should STFU, it was a stupid comment and he should just admit it.

[+ Charlie]

When they were 16 and 17, Serena and Venus weren't yet beating that many experienced women players either (Serena hadn't been to a major final, and Venus had lost her first and only one thus far), so the match against Braasch doesn't tell us much about what either one could do today. Braasch was a very experienced player in his early 30s, and a few years earlier he had been ranked as high as 38 in the world. McEnroe was a great player for a few years, but has always been a world class asshole as well, who likes to say things just to get noticed.

 

A "battle of the sexes" that pits one particular woman playing against one particular man can not verify broad generalizations about men and women.

[fedssocr1]

she's admitted herself that she couldn't compete against the power and speed of the men on tour. So I don't think McEnroe is wrong and he was just responding to a dumb question from a reporter who seemed to think Serena is the greatest tennis player ever - man or woman - and that she could compete with the men. And he did say he totally respects her accomplishments on the women's tour. She "shot back" today when she really didn't need to say anything.

[+ sniper]

Men are women on steroids. It's simply not and never will be equal. Ten percent edge in speed, a larger edge in power right off the top, there's no level of skill that can counter that when the bigger and stronger person is highly skilled as well. And even the 500th ranked professional player is highly skilled.

I mean maybe if they gave the woman the doubles lanes but the man had to hit inside the singles lanes, but even then I think the power edge is too much.

 

That said it's simply graceless to point it out.

[MartyB]

The #1 ranked men's college player would beat Serena. McEnroe is not wrong. It's a stupid question. Could she take games off if the 700th ranked man - yes but not best him in 2 out of 3 sets. I am avid tennis fan and he has always acknowledged her greatness. I also have met him and be is a very nice man genuine funny and articulate.

[edjames]

Bravo Serena and best wishes on your pregnancy.

 

http://superselected.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Serena-Williams-Vanity-Fair-Annie-Leibowitz-01.jpg

 

Shot by Annie Leibovitz, Serena Williams features in a series of stunning images for Vanity Fair. In the accompanying interview, the tennis star talks about what went down when she first found out that she was pregnant. She also opens about her relationship with fiancé Alexis Ohanian.

 

 

 

http://superselected.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Serena-Williams-Vanity-Fair-Annie-Leibowitz-02.jpg

 

 

http://superselected.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Serena-Williams-Vanity-Fair-Annie-Leibowitz-03.jpg

 

 

 

MacEnroe should shut up and mind his own business. A spoiled brat on the courts who was not well liked in the tennis world and an even more miserable, opinionated, and egotistical sports "commentator." I wish he would shut up! I often turn the sound off, or switch to the Tennis Channel to avoid hs annotng mouth when he is commentating a match. He never shuts up!

[marylander1940]

 

Maybe is time to have another battle of the sexes just like the one portrayed decades ago and finally on film.

[+ sniper]

Bobby Riggs was 55 and it was an era when 55 was a LOT older than it is today. Also the wooden rackets took a lot of the speed/power factor out of the game.

[+ Charlie]

Bobby Riggs was 55 and it was an era when 55 was a LOT older than it is today. Also the wooden rackets took a lot of the speed/power factor out of the game.

True. Riggs was basically trying to claim that any man had more athletic ability than any woman. Tennis, however, is one of the most equalized sports in terms of the gender of the participants, because there is no physical contact, and both opponents use exactly the same equipment in a very restricted space. Physical strength and dexterity are important, but so is strategy, so a physically weaker player can outmaneuver a physically stronger opponent. On a day in which both are in top form, I think Roger Federer would probably beat Serena Williams, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[LoveAustinCF]

True. Riggs was basically trying to claim that any man had more athletic ability than any woman. Tennis, however, is one of the most equalized sports in terms of the gender of the participants, because there is no physical contact, and both opponents use exactly the same equipment in a very restricted space. Physical strength and dexterity are important, but so is strategy, so a physically weaker player can outmaneuver a physically stronger opponent. On a day in which both are in top form, I think Roger Federer would probably beat Serena Williams, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Federer just won 2 GS this year at the age of 35. I'm sorry but Federer would probably beat her 6-0 even if she is in top form. I doubt Serena would come close to beating any top 100 or even top 200 players. Men are just faster and stronger.

[MartyB]

Federer just won 2 GS this year at the age of 35. I'm sorry but Federer would probably beat her 6-0 even if she is in top form. I doubt Serena would come close to beating any top 100 or even top 200 players. Men are just faster and stronger.

The top ranked men's college player would dominate her. Let alone any pro in the top 100.

[+ sniper]

True. Riggs was basically trying to claim that any man had more athletic ability than any woman. Tennis, however, is one of the most equalized sports in terms of the gender of the participants, because there is no physical contact, and both opponents use exactly the same equipment in a very restricted space. Physical strength and dexterity are important, but so is strategy, so a physically weaker player can outmaneuver a physically stronger opponent. On a day in which both are in top form, I think Roger Federer would probably beat Serena Williams, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

??? That doesn't follow from what I was saying. I'm saying he was so much older(he was 55 but he looked like he was 70, this was before statins kept men's hearts in good shape longer) plus the equipment back then was an equalizer, so there were two big things going BJK's way. And even then she only beat him by one break per set.

Today power is much bigger in the game and the ball speed is a factor. Federer would destroy Serena.

Back in the 80s Martina said she'd play the 100th ranked man IF he didn't play for 6 months. Chris Evert(who at the time had come back and was again neck and neck with her) said that Martina would lose to the 1000th male, because Evert's unranked brother still beat her(Evert).

The size and strength issues are simply insurmountable. That's why I'm not on board with the "let trans women compete as women whether or not they have the surgery" that some are currently arguing for.

[+ Charlie]

If size and strength are the only determinants, then the bigger, stronger male should always beat the smaller, weaker male, but that doesn't happen in tennis the way it might in wrestling or boxing. If it did, 6'10" players like John Isner and Ivo Karlovic should always beat 6'1" Roger Federer, but they never do. Speed, skill in using the equipment, and understanding of what shot to use can give the advantage to the smaller, weaker player, as one can see over and over in matches. Only when the opponents are equal in those attributes does size and strength become the dominant factor, and you can't convince me that the 100th ranked male is superior to Serena in all those areas.

[+ sniper]

I'm saying the margin on the physical aspect of the game is too much for the mental aspects to overcome. The physical gap between the men and women is far greater than the gap between any of the men. It's between-group variance versus within-group variance. It doesn't matter that she knows what to do better if she can't get to the ball to hit it in the first place. Now she might take some service games with aces, but on the rallies she won't be able to keep up. Give her the doubles lanes while he is restricted to the singles sidelines and then I'd give her a shot at it.

[+ sniper]

I am saying she could very well be more skilled than Federer. But you can't determine that from a match between them, because he will win it with power.

[+ Charlie]

I don't find your reasoning convincing. If one accepts for the purpose of argument that women, in general, are weaker than men, in general, it doesn't logically follow that any particular woman is therefore automatically weaker than any particular man. (Statistics from a recent tournament showed that Madison Keys' forehand shots were faster than the average for the men in the tournament.) A lot of success in tennis is based on correct anticipation of where the ball will be, not simply on the speed with which one runs to it, and in a very short sprint, the difference between a man's and a woman's speed may be insignificant. Your statement that "the margin on the physical aspect of the game is too much for the mental aspects to overcome" (by mental aspects" I assume you mean things like knowledge, experience, strategy, determination, etc.) is simply an assertion, for which you provide no evidence. If "power" always determines the winner of a match, then power has to mean something more than physical strength, otherwise how did Diego Schwartzman--who is considerably smaller than Venus Williams--beat 6'6" former U.S. Open champion Marin Cilic this week?

 

If their other skills are truly equal, and Roger is also physically stronger than Serena (an untested assumption)--and neither of them has any injuries, and Serena isn't pregnant, etc.-- then I agree that he will probably win. I don't agree that any decent male player could beat her simply with physical strength.

[+ sniper]

Who said "any decent male player?" We're talking about professionals, who by definition are in the 99.999th percentile of their respective divisions. You keep shifting the question to any given man versus any given woman, and that's not the question being posed. Serena can beat, I am sure, 90+percent of the men on the planet. But she can't beat the top men's players, it won't even be close. If Roger weren't stronger and faster than Serena, he wouldn't be the number one man. There's a physical component and a skill component. Each is necessary but not sufficient, and one can only go so far in making up for the other. The physical component of the men's game is too high a bar overall for any woman to clear.

 

The US women's soccer team, best in the world at the time, played a scrimmage against a boy's 14 and under team, not the best in the world boys, just an elite boys team. The boys won. I don't think they had more soccer experience or expertise - they were simply faster.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/