Feeling very torn and needing some sound advice

[+ purplekow]

I agree. But then why all the hubbub surrounding it? Why get married in the first place if it means so little? It either means something because you've pushed for it or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways. Well, you can, but the very idea of marriage has become so much of a sham because of this very attitude. YOU aren't giving ME what I want. And if YOU don't change, I'm leaving. Now that's commitment.

 

No one NEEDS sex. You won't die if you don't get it.

First of all marriage does not mean monogamy. Some people equate the two. These two gentleman apparently have lived that life for many years. No one should be unhappy in their life to satisfy the needs of the other without some reciprocation. The OP has asked for sex and he was assured that his husband would seek out help which has not been done. The husband is closed off to conversation though there is clearly some sexual issues for him.

 

While no one needs sex, you do need honesty and compassion and trust and cooperation to keep a marriage vital and healthy. Those things are missing here, at least in regards to sex. Get counseling. If that is a non=starter, I would tell him that you intend to have sex with or without him, the decision is his. I would not flaunt your experiences in his face if he opts out, but I would not sit around waiting for the other shoe to drop to start getting back into your life something you want.

[Scott Virginian]

Marriage requires both partners to make their best effort to the success of the union. If he's not willing to do that, then it is fair to question his commitment to the marriage. If he's willing to try, constructively, to respond to your needs and make your concerns his concerns, then there's still hope.

 

It seems like you have four options: cheat; divorce; counseling; an open relationship. I add that fourth because there are couples that work well with that provision. They're happy together except in the bedroom and honestly don't mind if each partner seeks to fulfill particular needs with someone else. Hell, some couples prefer it. If that "issue" is getting taking care of, it ceases to be a point of contention and friction. You might be surprised to find him relieved by the suggestion. You're sexually satisfied, he doesn't have to feel the burden or obligation, and neither of you feel guilty about making demands that are apparently troubling to the other.

 

Might be worth a conversation.

 

Other than that, I think the best suggestion so far is to get professional marital counseling. You'll either figure out how to save the marriage, or you'll figure out how to let each other go lovingly.

[Bearofdistinction]

Hi, guys. I am relatively new to this forum. I've been lurking and occasionally commenting for about a month and a half. I posted about my dilemma once before and received some wonderful responses. My situation hasn't really changed since then, and if anything the stagnant nature of my situation has only become more apparent to me since then.

 

I am a 44-year-old out and proud gay man married to another man. We have been married almost 18 years, and we are the best of friends and compatible in every way except sexually. Our sex life has never been what I would call robust, but we were at least frequently physical with each other for the first several years of our relationship. My husband has never had a huge libido. I, on the other hand, masturbate daily (sometimes multiple times daily) and seem to be horny constantly. There is a 15-year age difference between us, so that could explain some of it. My husband has also always struggled with body image issues despite my assurances that he is far too hard on himself in that regard. My assurances seem to fall on deaf ears, though.

 

I grew up in a rural, backward small town in WV, so I have definitely been a late bloomer when it comes to sex. I didn't come out until I had graduated college and never even experienced any kind of intimacy with another man until then. I was raised in a religious household, so I know I have a lot of baggage that I've been working to shed regarding the subject of sex. So it was never really that much of an issue for me that my husband and I weren't exactly tearing it up in the bedroom. We have done oral and that's pretty much it. He's extremely ticklish and won't let me near his feet, which sucks because I have a major foot fetish. He's refused to ever bottom. I figured at some point he would top me. I am pretty versatile, so it doesn't matter to me. But it's become clear to me that I don't think this is ever going to happen. And during the last year or so, something has happened to me. I don't know whether it's a mid-life crisis thing or me thinking that life is short and time is running out, but I feel so much more sexually adventurous and ready to experience "everything on the menu" so to speak.

 

About two weeks ago, I finally told him I had something I needed to discuss with him. It was a hard conversation to have - partly because I feel guilty piling more on him. He has a very high-stress job and has had some recent health issues, too. But I finally told myself I can't always be putting his needs before mine. So I told him point blank that I needed to have sex with him. I told him how horny and frustrated I've been for a long while now. He said that he would see the doctor about getting some Viagra, that maybe that would help stimulate his libido. The conversation pretty much ended. I have made several overtures since then, but he doesn't take the bait. I walked in on him masturbating to porn the other morning, and he quickly tried to hide it and acted ashamed that I "caught" him doing it. I told him I didn't care if he watched porn and offered to leave the room so he could finish, but at that point he got mad and bit my head off saying, "It doesn't matter because it's just not working for me! I can't seem to fix this problem for you!" Which only led to me feeling guilty, like I had created more stress for him. It's been 3 weeks now, and he has not mentioned going to see the doctor about a remedy for this.

 

This is turning into a novel, so to make a long story short, I don't know what to do. I have been mulling over hiring an escort for about two months now - just to get myself laid - and have learned a lot from these forums. I have so much baggage around doing it, though, so ultimately I wonder if it will just be money wasted because I will have so much crap in my head that I won't be able to just relax and enjoy it. My primary sticking point seems to be wondering how much guilt and shame I'll feel afterward knowing that I cheated on my husband. Although would it be considered cheating considering we haven't touched each other in almost 4 years and he seems to be full on asexual now? Or am I just looking for ways to justify adultery here? Then again, if I stay faithful, then that means being celibate. Do you see my dilemma? I know some of you are likely going to suggest asking for permission to do this. I struggle with that because I know my husband well enough to know that he will react by feeling horrible about himself, like he failed me somehow. And honestly, I don't know how much that would hurt him. I care about his feelings, so much so that I've been sublimating my own. I am really at a loss here.

 

Thank you to those who took time to read about my sad state of affairs (no pun intended). I really could use all the advice you're willing to offer.

~Chad in Columbus, Ohio

 

Tell hubby you love him first and foremost but are at a point where there are lots of things you wanna do snd try sexually.

 

Suggest - I'd love to share these adventure s with you or maybe you just wanna watch or maybe we could share a fantasy together.

 

You know hubby it may not just be about viagra - maybe a visit to the endocri ologist and some open discuss ion with a counselor could help us get to a place we both would enjoy - Libido is a complicated thing

 

.

[+ Gar1eth]

I'm going to come across as a mean person here .... you're married. For better. For worse. Isn't that what you wanted? The vows. If the physicality of it means more than that, then leave. I just don't understand why people carry on and on about wanting marriage. Now that you have it, you want to abandon it.

 

It would be no different than if he was sick with cancer or anything else. Would you sneak off then to satisfy your needs?

 

Having said that, if it does mean this much to you, then tell him to read your post and these replies. Then, if he, you, or the situation doesn't change, change it yourself.

 

I'm not married. And with my baggage I doubt I'll ever even have a boyfriend, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Marriage shows there is a definite commitment to each other. I also think having a paper and a legal bond --and for some a religious bond-is helpful during those difficult times that occur in most marriages and might be the one thing that keeps you holding on until the good times come again. But marriage is not and should not be a prison where if the relationship is no good you are still trapped in it forever.

 

As for @youngboldone -this is difficult. I can't remember if you have asked him to go to marriage counseling. If he won't go, have you gone?

 

I'm going to tell you frankly, that I'm sure these kind of issues have broken couples up before. Some questions with hiring an escort are #1. If you don't tell your husband, and he finds out, what will happen? 2. If you hire and feel guilty, what's that going to do to your relationship?

 

Something that occurred to me, Seattle has a club called Rain City Jacks-its some kind of group 'jack off club'. I've never been. If Columbus had such a club would that be a partial answer?

 

Gman

[maninsoma]

Some good advice already given, and I want to particularly support the idea that the two of you need to communicate more and/or differently. Maybe you can see a counselor together to try to get that going or maybe it's something you can do on your own.

 

What I haven't noticed upthread is my perspective on this "walking in on the husband masturbating" situation. It seems like quite a few people assume that this is proof that the husband still has a healthy sex drive and simply chooses to use porn and masturbation to satisfy that. But given the statement after being "caught" that was attributed to him, I suspect the situation might be different, namely that the husband has a significant erectile difficulty and/or anorgasmia problem and was trying to see if he could work on that alone when viewing porn NOT so that he could avoid his partner but rather to gain some confidence that he could still perform with his partner. His frustration that what he was doing wasn't "working" is what causes me to suggest this possibility, but I also relate to this personally. I'm not in a relationship so I don't have those issues to contend with, but like many men I have developed some degree of ED as I've aged. Worse, I had to start taking medication a year and a half ago that not only made my ED worse but that made it extremely difficult for me to reach orgasm and, when I finally did ejaculate, caused those orgasms to be far less pleasurable than normal. If that pertains here, requesting sex isn't particularly helpful but inquiring into the husband's feelings and well being might well lead to at least some form of sex. (I'm thinking that if the guy has ED and has withdrawn because of that, the two of them can talk about how they can still have sex despite this.)

 

I obviously don't know if any of this applies to this couple, and maybe the husband really is the selfish prick some of you have already made him out to be, so maybe further attempts to talk won't lead anywhere. But I honestly think this is a better "next step" than looking for sex outside the relationship. I know that many married clients feel otherwise and we're free to have our own viewpoints, but I honestly think that if the OP decides he's going outside their relationship to get his sexual needs met he should at least have a conversation with his husband about that. If two people have been in a monogamous relationship and one of them wants to start having sex with other people, my sense of right-and-wrong informs me that both partners in the relationship should know that's going on.

[LADoug1]

I agree. But then why all the hubbub surrounding it? Why get married in the first place if it means so little? It either means something because you've pushed for it or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways. Well, you can, but the very idea of marriage has become so much of a sham because of this very attitude. YOU aren't giving ME what I want. And if YOU don't change, I'm leaving. Now that's commitment.

 

No one NEEDS sex. You won't die if you don't get it.

I for one need sex to feel I have a full and complete life. Even if it is just masturbation.

[LADoug1]

The responsibility for the health of your marriage is not yours alone. Marriage is a contract. Considering the facts you have shared in your post, it's showtime for the both of you. If I were in your situation, I would go in full force: We need to talk. Our marriage is going to get better or it's going to get worse, but it is not going stay as it is. I need to know from you now if you are willing to help address our intimacy drought.

I don't believe an honest effort is too much to ask from a spouse to save the marriage.

It's a tough environment, I wish you well going forward.

As always it's about communication.

[LADoug1]

I remember @Lance_Navarro just studied as a sex therapist, I wonder if he can help you guys.

I'd be very interested too.

[KennF]

I haven't read all the other advice (I got through a page and a half), but wanted to add my thoughts and feelings.

 

Sorry for the length.

 

First, you aren't alone. It is important for you to hear that.

 

Next, sex and intimacy are two different things. You can love someone deeply and have no sex. You can have sex and not love someone at all. But it is just not possible to love someone and not have intimacy. Intimacy is all about being supportive, vulnerable, open, etc... it usually includes cuddling, sitting together, and all the other 'little' things.

 

A lot of guys feel vulnerable and open before, during, and/or immediately after sex. And that can be confused with intimacy, which (in my opinion) is why so many people equate sex with intimacy/love. That's a separate thought, though.

 

In your case, you've got a sexual issue. He's got body image problems and you've got a higher libido.

 

I would immediately refrain from trying to reassure him that he's too hard on himself. I would be supportive of whatever solution he wants to pursue. "I feel fat/ugly/short/unattractive/<fill in the blank>", "I don't feel that and what can I do to help?" It doesn't negate his feeling. When you start off with "I disagree", you reject his feelings.

 

Now onto the tougher part...

 

Marriage works with compromise, but in this case, the choices are clear:

1) Either you are going to have to accept that he isn't going to have sex with you and masturbate for sexual pleasure;

2) He will have to have sex with you, whether or not he enjoys it. I'm not suggesting forced/rape, but rather, we all do things we don't like from time to time. In his case, top/bottom/suck/<fill in the blank>. You'd have to accept that he isn't enjoying it, and it is for your pleasure that he does it;

3) You will have to seek sexual pleasure with another person. Either that will mean his permission to open up the marriage (either separately or adding a third or a surrogate), or, getting a divorce;

 

Before you worry about how guilty you will feel, you two need to clear the air and have those tough conversations.

 

Trust me, I know how difficult they are. I've done them and the choices weren't easy.

 

FWIW, my husband's solution was medical and required him to give himself injections in his penis. And it took a while for me to deal with the guilt.

[LookingAround]

My dad married his live in girlfriend so that she could be on his health insurance. That may be marriage in legal terms, but it's not marriage.

 

Ummm yes it is.

[+ poolboy48220]

Agreed. Marriage takes many, many forms other than two people in love and devoting themselves completely to each other and nobody else.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

I haven't read all the other advice (I got through a page and a half), but wanted to add my thoughts and feelings.

 

Sorry for the length.

 

First, you aren't alone. It is important for you to hear that.

 

Next, sex and intimacy are two different things. You can love someone deeply and have no sex. You can have sex and not love someone at all. But it is just not possible to love someone and not have intimacy. Intimacy is all about being supportive, vulnerable, open, etc... it usually includes cuddling, sitting together, and all the other 'little' things.

 

A lot of guys feel vulnerable and open before, during, and/or immediately after sex. And that can be confused with intimacy, which (in my opinion) is why so many people equate sex with intimacy/love. That's a separate thought, though.

 

In your case, you've got a sexual issue. He's got body image problems and you've got a higher libido.

 

I would immediately refrain from trying to reassure him that he's too hard on himself. I would be supportive of whatever solution he wants to pursue. "I feel fat/ugly/short/unattractive/<fill in the blank>", "I don't feel that and what can I do to help?" It doesn't negate his feeling. When you start off with "I disagree", you reject his feelings.

 

Now onto the tougher part...

 

Marriage works with compromise, but in this case, the choices are clear:

1) Either you are going to have to accept that he isn't going to have sex with you and masturbate for sexual pleasure;

2) He will have to have sex with you, whether or not he enjoys it. I'm not suggesting forced/rape, but rather, we all do things we don't like from time to time. In his case, top/bottom/suck/<fill in the blank>. You'd have to accept that he isn't enjoying it, and it is for your pleasure that he does it;

3) You will have to seek sexual pleasure with another person. Either that will mean his permission to open up the marriage (either separately or adding a third or a surrogate), or, getting a divorce;

 

Before you worry about how guilty you will feel, you two need to clear the air and have those tough conversations.

 

Trust me, I know how difficult they are. I've done them and the choices weren't easy.

 

FWIW, my husband's solution was medical and required him to give himself injections in his penis. And it took a while for me to deal with the guilt.

 

Terrific advice!!!

[+ WilliamM]

No one NEEDS sex. You won't die if you don't get it.

 

I disagree. You probably do not have a very high sex drive. I would not die without sex, but I do need it to be happy, satisfied, and mentally healthy.

 

@latbear4blk, many men and some women have very little sex because of injuries which occurred during wartime.

 

If that happened to you , it is very difficult to believe you would not find other ways to be happy, satisfied and mentally healthy, given that millions of others were/are able to live relatively happy lives despite the wartime injury.

[+ José Soplanucas]

@latbear4blk, many men and some women have very little sex because of injuries which occurred during wartime.

 

If that happened to you , it is very difficult to believe you would not find other ways to be happy, satisfied and mentally healthy, given that millions of others were/are able to live relatively happy lives despite the wartime injury.

 

Indeed. My disagreement is with the "no one needs sex". I can understand "some people", maybe "many people", maybe "most people", maybe "almost everyone"; I disagree with "no one".

 

I am also aware that I may not need sex anymore in the near or far future. As a matter of fact, I did have moments of my life when I felt I did not need sex, like when the love of my life died, or when my thyroid stopped working.

 

But believe me, I do need sex in this moment of my life.

[MikeyGMin]

Indeed. My disagreement is with the "no one needs sex". I can understand "some people", maybe "many people", maybe "most people", maybe "almost everyone"; I disagree with "no one".

 

I am also aware that I may not need sex anymore in the near or far future. As a matter of fact, I did have moments of my life when I felt I did not need sex, like when the love of my life died, or when my thyroid stopped working.

 

But believe me, I do need sex in this moment of my life.

Exceptions (injuries, religious celibates, etc.) do not negate a rule. I think you are perfectly justified in saying that most people need sex to live a happy, fulfilled life. It's a biological imperative.

 

Some people have no sense of taste or smell and can be happy eating porridge every day, but that doesn't change the fact that most people need better food to be happy. I'll be damned if I would stay in a relationship where I was forced to eat porridge every day.

[+ purplekow]

Few of us choose to avoid stimuli, in fact it is the exception in life that we do so. It is with a certain sense of intrigue, play or naughtiness that we do so. Blindfolds, muffled hearing, immersion tanks to eliminate tactile stimulation all used for a specific purpose to deprive an individual of sensation for some other purpose. Marriage to the person you love should not condone exclusion of pleasurable sensation for either partner.

The OP has been deprived of stimulation of a sexual nature. The usual state of being for humans is to have a desire for such sensation. One may opt out of partaking, but that does not opt out the desire. In this case, he has opted out in respect for his partner's feelings. His partner has not or cannot satisfy and the OP feels he can no longer go without the stimulation. He has done his part. He has gone as far as he feels comfortable. Take off the blindfold, unmuffle his ears, let him exit the part of this relationship which is a sensory deprivation tank. It is his husband at this time who needs to decide whether he is going with him or not.

[KennF]

It is his husband at this time who needs to decide whether he is going with him or not.

 

I understand your sentiment, but I wouldn't word it that way. Assuming that the OP remains unable to continue under the status quo and self-gratification, then his husband has a choice to make.

 

He may choose to have sex, even though he doesn't enjoy it. I've known a couple where one, for medical reasons, no longer had any libido. Didn't ejaculate, no orgasm, no erection, all disconnected. However, he enjoyed cuddling and loved when his partner would be so vulnerable after cumming. So, he made a choice, he allowed his husband to use his hole, rim him, fuck him, and cum. He got no enjoyment from that part, but used to tell me that he afterglow was more than worth it. He accepted his husband's need to fuck, and in return he got his intimacy needs fulfilled.

[+ azdr0710]

this reminds me of a very similar lament by a forum member several months ago....the forum member did meet up with an escort and all hell broke out with his husband..... I tried to find the lengthy thread, but couldn't......

 

maybe somebody remembers and can find the thread and link it here......

 

EDIT: here is the thread that this one reminded me of.....I don't think we've had an update from Reluctant Daddy, though

 

https://m4m-forum.org/threads/a-series-of-unfortunate-events.120037/

[LADoug1]

I understand your sentiment, but I wouldn't word it that way. Assuming that the OP remains unable to continue under the status quo and self-gratification, then his husband has a choice to make.

 

He may choose to have sex, even though he doesn't enjoy it. I've known a couple where one, for medical reasons, no longer had any libido. Didn't ejaculate, no orgasm, no erection, all disconnected. However, he enjoyed cuddling and loved when his partner would be so vulnerable after cumming. So, he made a choice, he allowed his husband to use his hole, rim him, fuck him, and cum. He got no enjoyment from that part, but used to tell me that he afterglow was more than worth it. He accepted his husband's need to fuck, and in return he got his intimacy needs fulfilled.

It would be difficult for me to have sex with someone who doesn't enjoy it regardless of afterglow.