The Data Is What The Data...

[rvwnsd]

Several Financial Institutions allow you to send cash to a email address. The Institution then contacts that email address for routing details. The email webmaster@winkwinknodnod.net would reach Daddy.

 

BTW: It was I who deleted the off-topic remarks. It's important that we stay on topic because notes are being taken for design purposes.

 

FYI: It would appear that I can put static pages up in the Message Forum. As the ideas coalesce, I'll build a page.

Most banks require their users to set up a contact name to accompany the payment. I believe the name can be a business name. Shall we use Wink Wink Nod Nod when we set up the contact?

[+ stevenkesslar]

(Regarding the suggestions of tiered services... Consider rentment's premier, paid client service wherein members can see private photos that non-members cannot see...I'm not sure that fits with the virtual culture that is unique to Daddy's but taking parts of that type of tiering strategy and leaving it as an option for the future might be prudent. It doesn't have to happen anytime soon but a long-term plan that could include it if needed might be a good idea.)

 

That is a great idea, seriously. Our escorts could donate exclusive autographed pictures to Daddy, who then would submit them in return as a thank you gift to the client donors. Tailored to your favorite boy.

 

Now I am going to put on my escort hat (or wait, am I supposed to take it off???) and go into rant mode. All of what I'm going to say is blunt and direct and personal and based on 15 years of experience as an escort with this website. It is all meant to illuminate facets of this idea: let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Personally, it would be a disaster in my view to think of Rentboy or Rentmen as models we want to make this website more like. I used Rentboy once, over a decade ago, when they offered me a free ad for a month. I used Rentmen zero times. The Rentboy experience was a fiasco. Mostly flakes calling to talk to me while they jacked off or people wanting me to email them pics. The two appointments I actually booked were two of the worst I've ever had - one guy was as high as a kite on coke or something. It's so long ago and such a limited base of experience that my conclusion is probably unfair, but those sites inherently promote this sort of "anything goes" attitude. The only real question to me is whether they intentionally try to work against where that kind of attitude naturally leads, or whether they just ignore it and pocket the cash. All my ranting about Rentboy has been despite, rather than because of, my personal experience and views about how they are borderline kinda sleazy.

 

One of the reasons I feel emphatic about this is that Hooboy's and Daddy's website was my bread and butter. It was sufficient for me to make the income I wanted to make, and it also connected me to all my best clients (not to mention escorts friends) and in effect pre-screened many of them for me. While I can't prove it, my experience strongly suggests to me that people who use websites to read reviews are actually better clients, for the most part. The relationship is reciprocal because the reviews allow you to hire people you feel you can trust, and some escorts who comment on the forum can use it as a tool to connect and show they are smart, reliable, caring, whatever.

 

Over the years there have been criticisms, some of which I've shared, about why this site wasn't run better as a business, or why the forum wasn't moderated either more strictly or more casually. But the huge overwhelming thing that I knew anyway, and have particularly become more cognisant of in the last year, is that for Daddy I think this is first and foremost a labor of love that has to do with building and supporting a safe community. To the degree that this website is NOT run as a profit-maximizing business, I would argue that is probably a good thing. This is NOT a website that promotes the idea that the pics may or may not be fake, the reviews may or may not be fake, you may or may not show up at a hotel room and get ripped off or beaten up - we don't care as long as you show me the money.

 

Some of this "premium services" discussion scares me because it could end up enabling mischief. The obvious reason why based on what I said in the paragraph above is that Rentboy and Rentmen had clear financial incentives in the form of paid ads to go easy on escorts who played fast and loose with the rules of good conduct. This website inherently does the opposite: if you are an asshole, you are going to get slammed. That is particularly true on the review side, but also on the forum as well. The drama we've all been through in the last year actually proves that even when you get very complex individuals with a mix of very noble talents and some negative personality characteristics, this space is set up in a way that allows the truth to sort itself out in the end. Nobody should feel entitled to anything here. It should all be earned through good conduct. So setting up any kind of tiered membership that encourages the idea that some people are above others - whether they are escorts or people who hire them or just people who like to post - is a bad idea IMHO. Part of what I like about the voluntary donation model is the model itself is based on the idea that it works best if you try to act like your brother's keeper and just play nice and fair. Everybody fucks ups sometimes, including me. But the reason I've been with this site for 15 years is it has always been that way, about playing nice and fair, and I want it to stay that way.

 

When Hooboy died and Daddy took over this website there were several things that happened fairly quickly that I didn't particularly like. I don't know why, and I don't even know if I remember correctly what happened when. There used to be a paid "premium service" I used where if you went to the SF page, for example, you saw a picture of me and a handful of other escorts who paid to run larger and I think more revealing pictures connected to a different website. Also, the individual city pages were set up so that they had the number of reviews right under the escort's name. I liked this, because part of my calling card was the relatively high number of positive reviews I had. I could argue that paid "premium services" like that might make sense to bring back, if what they do is add information like pictures or highlight the fact that an escort has a lot of positive reviews. But it all becomes part of a slippery slope and the main thing that seems to work really well about this website is it allows the wisdom of crowds to gradually work itself out for free.

 

My point in bringing this up is that if there's going to be charges for "premium services," it may make sense to do it on the escort side. Particularly if it is done in a way like it was before, which is it adds value to the core service, which is free reviews based on valuable and accurate information. A shitty escort who has a handful of shitty reviews will have little incentive to pay money to highlight the fact that they are bad at what they do. In my case, I was happy to pay money on a monthly basis to draw attention to the fact that a lot of people thought I was good at what I did. As soon as the line is crossed where money is collected from escorts that provide a service, that puts things in a somewhat different legal category, as we have all now learned. Government idiots can allege anything they want, so anything like what I just said has to be thought through really carefully. To me that is the HUGE advantage in tying any collection of money to voluntary donations that essentially fund a sort of LGBT Facebook online community.

 

I strongly agree with Bigvalboy that the ethic of the forum should be we are all equal and nobody gets something others don't get, including recognition, simply based on their willingness to open their pocketbook.

 

Having said that, I personally like the idea that escorts could market themselves and their good will be having a variety of creative and fun ways to thank voluntary donors to this site. First, there is a good reason for escorts themselves to be voluntary donors. I would argue that even if you DON'T want to publicize which forum members choose to voluntarily support this site, we may want to think of allowing escorts to "promote" themselves by making donations to fund the forum and being recognized for it, for example by a designation under their avatar. Speaking only for myself, that would be consistent with the way I "marketed" myself, mostly for free, through this website for years. Beyond that, anything from autographed pictures to donated signed copies of DVDs to "win a date" monthly contests with escorts among donors are worth considering. I brought this idea up to the Rentboy legal folks and they didn't like it. As you've all noticed, I am pretty aggressive in pushing for what I think is right, and I don't mind calling myself a whore and using my whore-ishness to my advantage. I personally believe that it would have been great if escorts had used what they do as a way to promote fundraising for a Rentboy legal defense fund, because it's turning what somebody is saying is dirty and shameful about me into something I can proudly use to fight back. At any rate, more conservative legal eagles felt differently, so I didn't push the idea. But whoever looks at long term solutions should really consider this idea, both in terms of encouraging escorts themselves to donate, and encouraging them to voluntarily offer "rewards" to clients who do.

 

Like anything else we are talking about, it would best be done voluntarily, in the spirit of fun and good will. Just like when I sucked BVB off last night and he shot an enormous load of cum all over my face.

 

(Oh sorry , BVB. I got home late from flying all day and was horny so I think that was only a wet dream).

[mike carey]

Personally, it would be a disaster in my view to think of Rentboy or Rentmen as models we want to make this website more like.

Agree, this is not now an advertising site, it is a discussion site (be that the reviews or the forum).

But the huge overwhelming thing that I knew anyway, and have particularly become more cognisant of in the last year, is that for Daddy I think this is first and foremost a labor of love that has to do with building and supporting a safe community. To the degree that this website is NOT run as a profit-maximizing business, I would argue that is probably a good thing.

I agree that it is a labour of love but that doesn't mean that Daddy and whatever money he can raise from flirt-for-free or wherever is all that should fund it. It's essentially a cooperative or mutual society that needs to recognise that what it provides is not funded by magic and if we want it we need to contribute.

Some of this "premium services" discussion scares me because it could end up enabling mischief.

Agree for all the reasons you cited. Bonus gifts could be a way to go, but the management would be complex.

 

(What's an enormous load of cum? If I notice, it's a bonus.)

[+ Rickee]

Now I am going to put on my escort hat (or wait, am I supposed to take it off???) and go into rant mode. All of what I'm going to say is blunt and direct and personal and based on 15 years of experience as an escort with this website. It is all meant to illuminate facets of this idea: let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Personally, it would be a disaster in my view to think of Rentboy or Rentmen as models we want to make this website more like. I used Rentboy once, over a decade ago, when they offered me a free ad for a month. I used Rentmen zero times. The Rentboy experience was a fiasco. Mostly flakes calling to talk to me while they jacked off or people wanting me to email them pics. The two appointments I actually booked were two of the worst I've ever had - one guy was as high as a kite on coke or something. It's so long ago and such a limited base of experience that my conclusion is probably unfair, but those sites inherently promote this sort of "anything goes" attitude. The only real question to me is whether they intentionally try to work against where that kind of attitude naturally leads, or whether they just ignore it and pocket the cash. All my ranting about Rentboy has been despite, rather than because of, my personal experience and views about how they are borderline kinda sleazy.

 

One of the reasons I feel emphatic about this is that Hooboy's and Daddy's website was my bread and butter. It was sufficient for me to make the income I wanted to make, and it also connected me to all my best clients (not to mention escorts friends) and in effect pre-screened many of them for me. While I can't prove it, my experience strongly suggests to me that people who use websites to read reviews are actually better clients, for the most part. The relationship is reciprocal because the reviews allow you to hire people you feel you can trust, and some escorts who comment on the forum can use it as a tool to connect and show they are smart, reliable, caring, whatever.

 

Over the years there have been criticisms, some of which I've shared, about why this site wasn't run better as a business, or why the forum wasn't moderated either more strictly or more casually. But the huge overwhelming thing that I knew anyway, and have particularly become more cognisant of in the last year, is that for Daddy I think this is first and foremost a labor of love that has to do with building and supporting a safe community. To the degree that this website is NOT run as a profit-maximizing business, I would argue that is probably a good thing. This is NOT a website that promotes the idea that the pics may or may not be fake, the reviews may or may not be fake, you may or may not show up at a hotel room and get ripped off or beaten up - we don't care as long as you show me the money.

 

Some of this "premium services" discussion scares me because it could end up enabling mischief. The obvious reason why based on what I said in the paragraph above is that Rentboy and Rentmen had clear financial incentives in the form of paid ads to go easy on escorts who played fast and loose with the rules of good conduct. This website inherently does the opposite: if you are an asshole, you are going to get slammed. That is particularly true on the review side, but also on the forum as well. The drama we've all been through in the last year actually proves that even when you get very complex individuals with a mix of very noble talents and some negative personality characteristics, this space is set up in a way that allows the truth to sort itself out in the end. Nobody should feel entitled to anything here. It should all be earned through good conduct. So setting up any kind of tiered membership that encourages the idea that some people are above others - whether they are escorts or people who hire them or just people who like to post - is a bad idea IMHO. Part of what I like about the voluntary donation model is the model itself is based on the idea that it works best if you try to act like your brother's keeper and just play nice and fair. Everybody fucks ups sometimes, including me. But the reason I've been with this site for 15 years is it has always been that way, about playing nice and fair, and I want it to stay that way.

 

When Hooboy died and Daddy took over this website there were several things that happened fairly quickly that I didn't particularly like. I don't know why, and I don't even know if I remember correctly what happened when. There used to be a paid "premium service" I used where if you went to the SF page, for example, you saw a picture of me and a handful of other escorts who paid to run larger and I think more revealing pictures connected to a different website. Also, the individual city pages were set up so that they had the number of reviews right under the escort's name. I liked this, because part of my calling card was the relatively high number of positive reviews I had. I could argue that paid "premium services" like that might make sense to bring back, if what they do is add information like pictures or highlight the fact that an escort has a lot of positive reviews. But it all becomes part of a slippery slope and the main thing that seems to work really well about this website is it allows the wisdom of crowds to gradually work itself out for free.

 

My point in bringing this up is that if there's going to be charges for "premium services," it may make sense to do it on the escort side. Particularly if it is done in a way like it was before, which is it adds value to the core service, which is free reviews based on valuable and accurate information. A shitty escort who has a handful of shitty reviews will have little incentive to pay money to highlight the fact that they are bad at what they do. In my case, I was happy to pay money on a monthly basis to draw attention to the fact that a lot of people thought I was good at what I did. As soon as the line is crossed where money is collected from escorts that provide a service, that puts things in a somewhat different legal category, as we have all now learned. Government idiots can allege anything they want, so anything like what I just said has to be thought through really carefully. To me that is the HUGE advantage in tying any collection of money to voluntary donations that essentially fund a sort of LGBT Facebook online community.

 

I strongly agree with Bigvalboy that the ethic of the forum should be we are all equal and nobody gets something others don't get, including recognition, simply based on their willingness to open their pocketbook.

 

Having said that, I personally like the idea that escorts could market themselves and their good will be having a variety of creative and fun ways to thank voluntary donors to this site. First, there is a good reason for escorts themselves to be voluntary donors. I would argue that even if you DON'T want to publicize which forum members choose to voluntarily support this site, we may want to think of allowing escorts to "promote" themselves by making donations to fund the forum and being recognized for it, for example by a designation under their avatar. Speaking only for myself, that would be consistent with the way I "marketed" myself, mostly for free, through this website for years. Beyond that, anything from autographed pictures to donated signed copies of DVDs to "win a date" monthly contests with escorts among donors are worth considering. I brought this idea up to the Rentboy legal folks and they didn't like it. As you've all noticed, I am pretty aggressive in pushing for what I think is right, and I don't mind calling myself a whore and using my whore-ishness to my advantage. I personally believe that it would have been great if escorts had used what they do as a way to promote fundraising for a Rentboy legal defense fund, because it's turning what somebody is saying is dirty and shameful about me into something I can proudly use to fight back. At any rate, more conservative legal eagles felt differently, so I didn't push the idea. But whoever looks at long term solutions should really consider this idea, both in terms of encouraging escorts themselves to donate, and encouraging them to voluntarily offer "rewards" to clients who do.

 

Like anything else we are talking about, it would best be done voluntarily, in the spirit of fun and good will. Just like when I sucked BVB off last night and he shot an enormous load of cum all over my face.

 

(Oh sorry , BVB. I got home late from flying all day and was horny so I think that was only a wet dream).

Steven, I couldn't agree more.

[+ WmClarke]

Steven, I couldn't agree more.

You actually read all that?

[+ José Soplanucas]

This thread is a think tank.

[+ honcho]

You actually read all that?

 

I did, and I'm glad I did.

[+ not2rowdy]

...Make it easy to give anonymously and casually.

 

I also would definitely not want any sort of recognition. Nothing public. That would almost be like shaming people into contributing, or pointing fingers at those who hadn't....but don't underestimate those that can't. So whatever is done, it should be done discreetly and with sensitivity to those who are financially burdened and unable to help.

 

The quotes match my feelings. I'm an old fashioned, cash in the envelope, snail mail curmudgeon. I will just try to do it more often than I have in the past.

 

For the planners - don't forget to include a method for international donations. Bitcoin might be an option.

[mike carey]

For the planners - don't forget to include a method for international donations. Bitcoin might be an option.

Bitcoin might be unnecessarily complicated at both ends. For most international contributors buying USD and sending them by post is most likely the easiest option apart from whatever credit card option can be adopted.

[rvwnsd]

Hey, kids. It's time to discuss an important topic. "How to support this website - no ranting required."

 

Let's get started!!

 

As GuyFawkes stated in the original post, the site is running a deficit. While a tiered or "premium" membership plan is something GF has contemplated, the infrastructure required to support it takes time to build, integrate, and test. It also takes money. Money that simply is not coming in right now. What to do in the meantime? Support the website, that's what!

 

Here are ways YOU can help:

1. Support using your bank: Yes, you can send money to almost any email address from most banks' online banking sites. Some even allow recurring transfers. Simply open your online banking site, look for "Transfer Money to a Person" (or a similar link) and when it asks you for an email address, enter webmaster@winkwinknodnod.net. If it asks you for a name, you can enter Webmaster or, if it allows you to enter a business name, enter WinkWinkNodNod. Easy!
    
    
   
2. Support using popmoney: Popmoney is the company that runs most banks' person-to-person funds transfer applications. Go to www.popmoney.com , register, and send money to the email address webmaster@winkwinknodnod.net. One of the advantages of popmoney is it accepts debit cards, including prepaid debit cards! Discreet!
    
    
   
3. Support using Google Wallet: Yes, Google does money transfers. What's next? Cars?? But I digress. Google wallet is another way to send money to an email address and it allows the use of prepaid debit cards. If you have a GMail account or use one of Google's other services, you may log in using your existing Google ID. If not, you may create a new one. Googlely!
   

Here's the website:

http://www.google.com/wallet/

email address should be:

webmaster@winkwinknodnod.net

Regardless how you choose to support, there are many options that are quick, secure, and easy. The method is unimportant. The support is what counts.

 

OK, back to arguing about tiered vs premium vs gold vs deluxe.

 

Happy supporting!!!

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

I volunteer to do the legal backstopping of any longer-term revenue model, although we also need someone familiar with banking and financial laws and regs (not necessarily a lawyer), which I'm not. We are talking here about the MF, not the review site. (Or at least I think we are.)

 

I should be able to assist with the banking regulations.

[+ Charlie]

I don't like the idea of a mandatory fee to participate in the MB, because I think it will narrow the number of participants dramatically, and I think the more people who feel free to take part, the more interesting the discussions will be. I also think the ability to read and write reviews should continue to be free. I can listen to NPR or my local classical music station whether I contribute money to them or not, but I contribute because I value the stations and want them to continue, and I feel the same way about this site; I think most other members would make their choice to give or not based on the same considerations .

 

What is a reasonable fee to me would not necessarily be considered reasonable by someone else. I think $5/mo. is probably the minimal contribution level; I would be comfortable giving more, but I think there should be a relatively narrow range of levels, with perhaps $25/mo. as the top level. I do NOT think that the hierarchy of members should be tied to the level of contributions (no purchased dukedoms!). If someone wishes to make much larger donations, he or she should obviously be able to do so, and Daddy should be able to acknowledge them separately if he wishes.

 

What we don't yet know, of course, is how much money is actually needed to maintain the site at its current level of quality. Most organizations state their fundraising goals, and publicize when they have reached them. I hope this one can do the same.

[+ DERRIK]

I think the right thing to do is to support the forum and the web site

 

All these ideas about membership levels and such only add to complexity

 

I also believe in unintended consequences

A big plus is the fact that no one pays $ on the review side or the forum side. This adds to creditably and keeps the site out of hot water since no one stands to gain money

[RyanDean]

I have no idea how it would work but a version of the Patreon subscription-model seems most sensible to me.

And I'm not sure how he's been able to do it for so long (maybe it's because most of his stuff is not explicit) but Tim in Vermont has a membership structure (that uses PayPal) for access to his always-being-updated archive. Scroll to the bottom of the page to see the "pricing options"...

http://timinvermont.com/vintage/index.html

[+ Rickee]

Again, I'm just trying to come up with clarifying or "take it one step further" type questions.

 

Rickee, what is the difference in your mind between Options 2 and 4? Google Wallet does include a credit or debit card option, but that involves I believe a 2.9 % fee. It may also involve some extra hoops to set up if you are not set up for Google Wallet already. But as Keith pointed out, I think most credit card processing platforms charge much higher percentages. Also, I don't think any of these options allow complete anonymity, since you have to give them your credit card info.

 

One of the platforms that was mentioned was cc.bill so here is a brief summary of some of their features:

 

https://www.cardpaymentoptions.com/credit-card-processors/ccbill/

 

The immediate downside to me is it sounds like there is anywhere from $500 to $1500 in set up or annual fees, plus whatever the per transaction fees are. In the long run, that could be well worth it. In the short term, it just digs the hole a little deeper and take a significant amount of time to set up. I'm thinking that as an immediate or transitional tool if we feel a credit/debit card option is needed, Google Wallet makes sense, since its cheapest and we're talking about a low volume of transactions I think. I put it on the list because it is a tool that allows use of credit cards as opposed to checking or savings accounts or checks/cash/money orders.

 

This is exactly why I think it makes sense to view this as a two step process where we set something up for the next year to put out any immediate fires and then a small group of people privately explore longer-term solutions. If we move toward a voluntary or annual membership fee with a monthly pay option using credit cards something like ccbill or any of the other 3rd party billers mentioned might make sense, but that really needs to be researched and thought through.

Steven, in response to your question regarding my perceived difference between Google Wallet and a credit card payment, my hesitation is with Google. I'm no longer trusting what they do with my information, preferences, shopping choices, etcetera. My personal and business-related Google accounts have very suspiciously developed some similarities in Google's "recommendations." And so it's the just the Google system that I don't trust.

[+ Truereview]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but just in case this is not loud and clear yet: I'm with the camp that just wants to know how much & how. Give me a couple of choices on payment vehicles and keep it simple. Thank you for all the debate, hope we can bring it home soon and get this done ASAP.

[+ not2rowdy]

...my hesitation is with Google. I'm no longer trusting what they do with my information.... My...accounts have very suspiciously developed some similarities in Google's "recommendations."

 

In addition to Google I have this same concern with Yahoo, Bing and other “big” search engines.

 

I find that duckduckgo serves quite well for most of my routine needs. It claims it doesn’t track you (click on the center page logo for more info). It seems to be lacking in phone and image searches though.

[josh282282]

Hey Folks.

 

Love this website and the forum. Daddy & all of you are amazing.

 

I am happy to be considered wrong, but I think a pay format for readers has serious risks of failure. The two reasons the website works so well & is so popular is a robust review system for escorts from clients and a very active forum- and its all FREE. In this internet era, free is where it's at. Most people expect the internet to be FREE. People often won't even pay for music. If there is a cost to use this website I fear an exponential cascade of results: less people reading, then less people contributing, and the website dies a slow death.

 

My Suggestions:

1) find more advertisers. 75,000 gay men a month must mean something to a few more gay oriented websits. Straightupgayporn.com, Rentmen.com, porn companies come to mind. The concept is the 75K is a commodity to be sold to advertizers. Anything that reduces that number diminishes the ability to sell that commodity and generate revunue.

2) Hold more frequent and visible fund drives. More might contribute if given an opportunity.

3) the escorts (who I love & respect dearly) get a lot of free advertising here via the reviews. Somehow add in a pay-to-show their good reviews ($5?) feature. (Or pay-to-read for the clients-but I'm fearful this might overall harm the website as I wrote above.)

4) Block all links from an escorts forum contribution to his Rentmen.com ad. What you are essentially giving away is free advertising to the escorts here. It's nice, but sorta giving it away might be part of the problem.

5) With #4 add in a "Daddy Verified/Daddy Approved" escort link from this site. Meaning, the escort can (for a fee) have a page of his pic and stats only on a page and clicking it takes the reader to Rentmen.com.

 

Many of the people suggesting a membership fee (and I love and appreciate all of them) are high utilizers and posters. Sure, those will pay but most of the 75K of the traffic won't IMHO.

 

Just ideas, guys. They all could be wrong. I hope whatever happens the website on only gets stronger.

 

Love and Respect to all.

[LADoug1]

I think that a membership fee is reasonable but there should be some kind of free introductory period so new users can see all or part of the sites. They need to see the great benefits of both sites so they know what they are joining.

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

I'd be glad to donate. Steven, please add me to your list.

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

I haven't had time to keep up with this thread. Perhaps this has been covered...

 

This is Daddy's business and/or hobby. I don't think we should do anything that undermines his full ownership and control. No oversight of any kind. I trust Daddy to do what's best.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but just in case this is not loud and clear yet: I'm with the camp that just wants to know how much & how. Give me a couple of choices on payment vehicles and keep it simple. Thank you for all the debate, hope we can bring it home soon and get this done ASAP.

 

Okeydoke. Here ya go. Let me do a one paragraph summary of the goal, and then walk it back and provide details.

 

The goal is to raise $1000 a month in VOLUNTARY support for the M4M MESSAGE FORUM over the next year, from May 2016 to May 2017, through a set of ANNUAL pledges. There are two main ways to reach this goal: 1) Make an ANNUAL pledge of $50 or $25 a month and set up an automatic, recurring monthly bill pay to this website, using your bank's bill pay feature, or 2) make a $5 monthly pledge for the next year and pay it either as a one-time $60 donation or as a $5 monthly recurring payment, using any of the features described above (bill pay, email, text through your bank, Google Wallet, Popmoney, snailmail, etc.). MY goal is to identify 20 forum members who will pledge $25 to $50 a month for the next year in MESSAGE FORUM SUPPORT. MY goal is to identify 50 forum members who will pledge $5 a month or $60 one time in a VOLUNTARY ANNUAL FORUM MEMBERSHIP FEE.

 

Here's the way I got to $1000. If you multiply 20 donations of $25 to $50 I month I took an average of $37.50 a month, so that gets you $750 a month. If you multiply 50 donations of $5 a month that gets you $250. That adds up to $1000 a month. The reason I chose $1000 is if you look at the graph Daddy posted at the start of this thread that is what is needed to fill the revenue gap to support the MESSAGE FORUM in the worst months. In other words, $1000 is enough to get a safety net in place for the next year while a longer term set of solutions is researched and set up.

 

I meant to post this several days ago but Daddy wanted to wait a few days to let more ideas pop up, and I wanted to investigate specifics about how bill pay with banks works. I have discussed all these ideas with Daddy and he supports what I am doing. To be clear, I am the one pushing the $1000 a month goal. I know him well enough to know he is a proud and humble man and he doesn't like having to ask for support. But I have said I think it is important that those of us who strongly support the message forum should be allowed and encouraged to show that, by helpimg out on a recurring, monthly basis. He agrees.

 

The core of this idea is a voluntary donation plan set up on monthly, recurring bank bill pay donations. I set up my $50 a month bill pay on Monday and it seems to be working fine. My bank (Bank of America) allows me to set up bill pay for any business or individual I want. I will describe generally how to do that below. What that means specifically is my bank will send a monthly check of $50 for the next year (12 payments) to WinkWinkNodNod, LLC at the address listed earlier in this post which I will repeat below. Please note this option is NOT confidential. It is essentially like writing a check and the check will list your name, account number, etc - just like a regular check - but the difference is the bank does it for me automatically. The reason I am doing it this way is so Daddy can count on our donations for the next year.

 

Most banks have such a bill pay feature. If you are one of the people willing to do a monthly supporting donation, please set it up today using your bank bill pay feature. I will message everybody who has stated they will consider doing so privately, or message me, to confirm you have done this and whether you can do $50 or $25. In order to reach the goal of $750 in monthly pledges of $25 or $50 we need to have a list of who is pledging what. Because of sentiment that we should all be equals, I would suggest we NOT have a public master list at this point - these are voluntary donations and we are doing it because we support the message forum.

 

In terms of how to do it, here's how B of A works. On the main page, there is a tab that says "Bill Pay." Click on that and there is a sub-tab that says "Automatic/Recurring Payments." Click on that and there is a field that says "Set up a Pay to account." That will bring you to a few pages where you enter the specifics of where the bill pay check goes to and how often you want it sent. I set mine up to make 12 monthly payments on the same day each month for 12 months. This is the way B of A does it, but I have 3 checking accounts and the other 2 banks have similar features so I think most banks have them.

 

Here is the key information you have to enter:

 

Name: WinkWinkNodNod, LLC

Address: 6130 West Tropicana Ave., #124, Las Vegas, NV 89103

Phone: 714-702-5896

Acct # or Identifying Information: Your forum handle (I put "Kesslar")

Nickname: Message Forum Support

 

Let me explain the logic of the last two items based on my discussions with Daddy. As I said above this will generate a monthly recurring check mailed to "Daddy" ((it will actually be made out to WinkWinkNodNod, LLC) with your name as listed on on your checking account. So listing the account as "Kesslar" will help "Daddy" identify that it is my monthly $50 donation. The reason I listed "Message Forum Support" is that AT THIS POINT based on legal reasons this donation DOES NOT support the review site or anything to do with escorting. It supports the MESSAGE FORUM which is like a Gay Facebook and is clearly protected by free speech rights.

 

Those of you who like me feel strongly and want to support month to month, please do so today or this week and let's be in contact privately through PMs to confirm what you're doing, We need about 20 people. If you need help trouble shooting how to set this up with your bank let me know. It took me 5 minutes to do it and it's pretty simple and other than Daddy it is confidential. Just don't do it this way if you have a wife or partner or someone you don't want to know that you support the M4M Message Forum; i.e. a LGBT Facebook-type chat forum.

 

Several of you have offered technical and legal advice as this moves forward. Due to the whole Rentboy fiasco and until that is resolved it should be clear why any type of financial support shouldn't be tied to the escort review site. Speaking for myself I'd rather be paranoid for right now and until we do our homework base this 100 % on voluntary donations to, again, a Gay Facebook type forum.

 

Now, about the $5 monthly pledges. A number of you have said you are willing to do that. One of the reasons I personally think it makes a lot of sense is that even as a VOLUNTARY measure, it could solve the long term financial problem. For example if Daddy eventually determines that a hard goal of $1000 a year is needed, that adds up to 200 voluntary donors giving $5 a month. On a website with 75,000 users, that seems doable with some time and preparation. So setting a goal of 50 voluntary donors now will test the waters and allow Daddy to iron out kinks.

 

If you would like to support the forum this way, I'd encouarge you to do what BVB and others suggested and make a ONE TIME donation of $60 instead of making $5 monthly donations. It's way easier to manage for both you and Daddy. Also, ANY OF THE PAYMENT METHODS described above work. (Check out Rvnwsd's great posts above). If confidentiality is not an issue, you can use your bank to do a monthly bill pay or a one time bill pay or use your email or text. If confidentiality is an issue, you can mail support in the form of a money order or even cash to WinkWinkNodNod, LLC at the address above. As stated above Google Wallet and other platforms allow you to do options of this, but they charge a small fee.

 

The downside of this VOLUNTARY membership fee approach is it is more unwieldy to have lots of small $5 donations coming in monthly. In the long run maybe this is exactly the approach that makes sense, but I think Daddy needs time to figure it out, technically and legally, and starting it this way will allow him to trouble shoot. For example we'll learn how many people send $50 and how many send $5 a month and which payment system(s) work best. Speaking only for myself I have no problem with the idea of an annual fundraising drive based on $25 and $50 monthly pledges, so this sets up two possible solutions and we can see which works best in practice. At core all of this comes down to a bunch of good-hearted people helping in a relatively small and painless way to accomplish a big, positive result. :)

 

So in summary, we need 20 people to give either $25 or $50 A MONTH FOR THE NEXT YEAR based on automatic, recurring payments through your bank's bill pay. And we need 50 people to give $5 a month, preferably donated as a ONE TIME $60 donation, using any of the payment platforms listed in this entire post. And we need you to let us know PRIVATELY what you are doing so we know how close we are to the $1000 a month goal and Daddy knows what to expect. I will be working with him to set this up and to compile a master list of donations.

 

Personally I like the idea that those of us who are doing this get some kind of recognition, but I also understand the concerns about making this 100 % VOLUNTARY and avoiding anything that feels in any way coercive. We're doing this out of the goodness of our hearts to support something we care about. So let's just do it and we'll figure out the details as we go along.

 

THANKS GUYS AND GIRLS!!!!!

[Epigonos]

Unfortunately I am technology challenged to say the least. Without some serious prompting, from a friend, it might have taken me days to set-up an automatic payment plan, to the forum, but the process is now completed. Guys if an aging, retired, old fag like me can afford $25.00 a month so can many of the rest of us. Twenty five dollars a month really isn’t all that much considering the outstanding pleasure and service this site has given us over the year. Now is the time to step up and open up the wallets.

[+ Oliver]

Of course, I'm going to support the site with a monthly contribution. There has to be Palm Springs Weekend #13!:cool:

[+ stevenkesslar]

Of course, I'm going to support the site with a monthly contribution. There has to be Palm Springs Weekend #13!:cool:

 

By the way, glad to see you recently got your nipple back. Guess your "real" home has some advantages over Palm Springs after all. If you don't mind me asking, how much does the nipple cost? :D:p