The Data Is What The Data...

[Guest countryboywny]

I appreciate Mr. Kesslar's view point and suggestions. I would also add that his treatment of his family and their issues is a wonderful thing and speaks volumes about the man that he is. I hope we get to meet sometime.

 

The day I found this forum, it was still Hoo-Boy's and I was very new to hiring, or even thinking about it. My involvement in the forum has led to meeting a lot of folks who have become cherished friends. I have met some of the nicest, most gracious and exciting men on the planet. I, too, have sent Daddy money on a couple of occasions and covered the expenses for his first visit to DC for the luncheon event. It was a pleasure to support this place and Daddy because I got back way more than I put in. I went to Las Vegas last November for Daddy's birthday party with Ace. I'm not sure given my current financial situation that I could do a monthly donation, but I think it's a great idea. I'm anxious to see what develops in that regard.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I appreciate Mr. Kesslar's view point and suggestions. I would also add that his treatment of his family and their issues is a wonderful thing and speaks volumes about the man that he is. I hope we get to meet sometime.

 

My involvement in the forum has led to meeting a lot of folks who have become cherished friends. I have met some of the nicest, most gracious and exciting men on the planet.

 

Thank you. Nicely put. We are family. True, Daddy is a cherished friend, and a nice guy. But he is also Daddy.

[jgoo]

I've been enjoying and using this site since long long ago so I would be on board to be a regular contributor. Just a reasonable recurring charge on my cc every month and no fuss, no muss. If that could be arranged, then count me in.

 

I don't know the ways of the internet as a far as how money is earned, but with F4F how is the money earned? Is it every time someone comes to this site where it is advertised? Or is it only every time when someone clicks on the banner and goes to the site? Or does someone have to actually pay the guy for a viewing? How does it all work?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Focusing on the expense side of the business equation, what has been done to reduce expenses? I noticed each domain name has its own IP address which isn't necessary ( and these days hosting providers are charging extra for that ). What's the bandwidth consumption like? What has been done to reduce it? Are you overpaying for services? etc.

 

Great questions.

 

I'm being a loudmouth, but I think this is the time to put it on the table.

 

Here's a thought.

 

I think it may make sense to think of this as a two step process: one longer term focusing on a revenue model, one shorter term focusing on what I'll call the family model, meaning that in a family when times are hard everybody who can just pitches in. I said what I said about my family because I think for most of us, it's easier to think about this the way we think about pitching in like a family.

 

I very much appreciate your presence here, Kurtis. In addition to being wicked sexy, it is obvious you are wicked smart, and you probably know more than most of us, including me, about building sustainable websites using a sound revenue model. It's beyond my pay grade and I don't want to get into Daddy's business, but I think it would make a lot of sense for a small group of people like you (I can think of several other forum members who would also be very good at this) to start working discreetly with Daddy on ways to strengthen the revenue side of the equation as well. Some of the details of that are probably best kept private.

 

My immediate goal when I read Daddy's post is to help come up with something quick and easy based on what I'll call the "family model" that works for the next year or so. Meanwhile, please do what your avatar suggests you are exceptional at: jump in the pool, and show us what ya got. :)

[+ José Soplanucas]

I know nothing about business, so this idea may be stupid. What about surveying all members on what is the amount of money they would feel comfortable with, a communication that would be private between admin and each individual member. My forum home page reports 1,100 members the last 30 days. I do not know whether that is new members who signed up the last month, or the number of members who have been active the last month. Whatever it is, it looks like we can estimate about 1,000 active members every month. With a monthly $5 fee you are way above your goal. I'm willing to pay more than that, but I do not know how many would be willing to contribute 40 bucks. A very low fee may give you a higher total income, I find hard to believe that anybody would not be willing to drop 5 bucks monthly. However, as I said before, this may be just a stupid idea.

[+ stevenkesslar]

With a monthly $5 fee you are way above your goal. I'm willing to pay more than that, but I do not know how many would be willing to contribute 40 bucks.

 

Just a small friendly amendment. Let's not use the word "fee" or anything that implies anybody has to pay to play. I worry it would kill this website for various reasons - discretion, lack of income, etc.

 

Having said that, the way most successful fundraising works is a small group leads and a larger group follows. We're just starting with the first part of that equation. I think your idea is excellent that everybody should be asked to consider a small donation down the line, especially once we have a very simple and discreet way to do it thought through.

[bigvalboy]

Trying to process all of this. This is just one members opinion. Being very candid, I doubt that I would contribute $25 dollars a month, even if it meant not seeing my boo Kessie anymore. I'm more in line with what @latbear4blk is thinking. $5 a month seems to be more realistic, and I would want to pay that as a yearly charge, not have a card debited every month. I would and could comfortably absorb that cost without thinking about it.

 

I don't use the reviews and haven't done a "411" for several years now, so I use the site strictly to participate in the forum, and I only participate there because of a dozen or so forum members. (You know who you are) Should a fee be imposed, and some of those members left, I would most likely leave also, So I think you guys are on a slippery slope here.

 

But I get it. Since Daddy is not receiving enough money from voluntary donations, and he can't survive, then I agree something has to be done. I don't really have any answers, but I'm willing to listen and will carefully consider any suggestions you guys have.

 

As a side thought, I had a few websites that were charging me $5.95 and $6.95 respectfully. I never thought that those costs were out of line. For me it's a matter of bang for your buck. Anxiously await any solutions.

[rvwnsd]

Just saw this thread, so forgive the late entry.

 

I know nothing about business, so this idea may be stupid. What about surveying all members on what is the amount of money they would feel comfortable with, a communication that would be private between admin and each individual member. My forum home page reports 1,100 members the last 30 days. I do not know whether that is new members who signed up the last month, or the number of members who have been active the last month. Whatever it is, it looks like we can estimate about 1,000 active members every month. With a monthly $5 fee you are way above your goal. I'm willing to pay more than that, but I do not know how many would be willing to contribute 40 bucks. A very low fee may give you a higher total income, I find hard to believe that anybody would not be willing to drop 5 bucks monthly. However, as I said before, this may be just a stupid idea.

 

Next to Mike Gaite's suggestion, I think this is the best idea I have heard. I have an issue with asking folks to publicly state what they wish to pledge. Essentially, that is public shaming. I believe reducing and eliminating shame is a goal most of us would like to achieve. Why use an approach we abhore? Moreover, the "tiers" appear to be a bit high. Most public radio stations start at $5 per month (the amount latbear suggested) and go up from there.

 

Personally, I'm with Mike: put out the call for donations and tally each month's progress toward closing the gap. My guess is folks will contribute with greater frequency and in larger amounts if they can see where the money is going.

[jjkrkwood]

OK we need some extra incentive here... so EVERY donation gets to pin the tail on THIS donkey....

 

http://65.media.tumblr.com/858cb0e61b3a65b9139a0083dabde219/tumblr_ni8rwnYdX81s3ttn4o1_500.jpg

[+ José Soplanucas]

Just a small friendly amendment. Let's not use the word "fee" or anything that implies anybody has to pay to play. I worry it would kill this website for various reasons - discretion, lack of income, etc.

 

Having said that, the way most successful fundraising works is a small group leads and a larger group follows. We're just starting with the first part of that equation. I think your idea is excellent that everybody should be asked to consider a small donation down the line, especially once we have a very simple and discreet way to do it thought through.

 

Why do we have to talk about "donations"? (I am not debating, I am really asking). Can't we talk about a membership that gives us access to services like the reviews and the forum? We could have a free membership with a limited access and a payed membership with full access.

[jjkrkwood]

How about a Free Gift with every Paid membership ?

 

[bigvalboy]

Why do we have to talk about "donations"? (I am not debating, I am really asking). Can't we talk about a membership that gives us access to services like the reviews and the forum? We could have a free membership with a limited access and a payed membership with full access.

 

There ya go...For something like that, you could count me in.....

[+ José Soplanucas]

I just checked the donate label in daddy's homepage. I have to be writing a check, putting it in an envelope, getting stamps, and dropping it in a mail box. Annoying! I know, you would say shut up and move your big lazy Latin ass out of the recliner, and you would be right. However, I am sure I'm not the only one who find it inconvenient. It would be so much easier to type my credit card number and submit my donation right now in this very device I'm using right now.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Sorry if this sounds preachy but I'm a huge believer in the idea of the fundraising pyramid. I am on an iPhone so won't bother to try to cut and paste a graphic but you all have good imaginations.

 

Using my numbers what that means is that a few people might give $100, a slightly larger group than that might give $50 (I'm happy in that camp), and a slightly larger group than that might give $25. A bunch of you have already said monthly gives like that sound doable.

 

The base of the pyramid is the largest group who give the smallest amount , and $5 a month sounds like maybe a number people like.

 

BVB reinforced my point which is that I don't like the idea of requiring anyone to pay a fee. Also to rvwnsd's point I was not proposing a public pledge scheme that would in any way involve publicly coercing anybody. This brief discussion has already demonstrated that good-hearted people can be trusted to do what they can without any coercion.

 

Finally the thing I would discourage is any scheme that involves monthly or even regular begging. That is in my view one flaw of the way this has been done before. An automatic debit is a standard feature of a lot of websites or charities and would be easy to administer. And BVB's idea is good that somebody felt comfortable with $5 a month might just prefer to pay in one $60 shot and be done with it. Whatever we do could and should be structured that way. Some people like me will feel comfortable with monthly automatic gives, but others will want to do a one shot donation and that should be honored as well.

 

And as latbear4blk said and I strongly agree I would much rather just do a one time monthly debit or credit payment than write a check and have to mail it. I think autopay is actually a very donor-friendly tool.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Sorry if this sounds preachy but I'm a huge believer in the idea of the fundraising pyramid. I am on an iPhone so won't bother to try to cut and paste a graphic but you all have good imaginations.

 

Using my numbers what that means is that a few people might give $100, a slightly larger group than that might give $50 (I'm happy in that camp), and a slightly larger group than that might give $25. A bunch of you have already said monthly gives like that sound doable.

 

The base of the pyramid is the largest group who give the smallest amount , and $5 a month sounds like maybe a number people like.

 

BVB reinforced my point which is that I don't like the idea of requiring anyone to pay a fee. Also to rvwnsd's point I was not proposing a public pledge scheme that would in any way involve publicly coercing anybody. This brief discussion has already demonstrated that good-hearted people can be trusted to do what they can without any coercion.

 

Finally the thing I would discourage is any scheme that involves monthly or even regular begging. That is in my view one flaw of the way this has been done before. An automatic debit is a standard feature of a lot of websites or charities and would be easy to administer. And BVB's idea is good that somebody felt comfortable with $5 a month might just prefer to pay in one $60 shot and be done with it. Whatever we do could and should be structured that way. Some people like me will feel comfortable with monthly automatic gives, but others will want to do a one shot donation and that should be honored as well.

As soon as the system is set, I'm ready to star my monthly contribution. I love automatic debit.

[+ WhamIAm]

Personally, I'm with Mike: put out the call for donations and tally each month's progress toward closing the gap. My guess is folks will contribute with greater frequency and in larger amounts if they can see where the money is going.

+1. Before a locked contribution-based model, perhaps it might make sense to try making both the need to donate and how to donate more prominent on the home pages and promote it in relatively painless ways, maybe with a pinned post on the home page asking those who use and enjoy the site to show the love. This is a great site, and you should (at least) have your costs covered. And, there's no need to wait to proactively promote that this is a donation-based site continuously rather than only when you're taking a hit on it. I wonder whether a membership model might hurt traffic more than it might help, as well as raise other concerns discussed above either in reality or in the minds of potential participants..

 

IMHO, you've got enough on your plate without user surveys, and a donation-based site could accept as little or as much as someone felt able to give.

 

And, true confession -- I've frequently thought about contributing, and felt that I should contribute, but I never seem to have a stamp and an envelope in the house at the same time. I probably write about 4 or 5 checks a year, and those are usually late because I have the attention span of a gnat. It seems as though there's at least some of us that would make use of a PayPal or other electronic means of payment. (I would readily sign up for a recurring donation if it didn't actually require me finding a mailbox.) I completely understand those who would not, and who might be more inclined to donate if the only personal info given is what's on the check. A higher-profile ask for donations, with certain metrics to maintain interest and enthusiasm in the health of the site, might be worth a shot at least on a trial basis before working on a membership model.

 

And now I'm off to by some stamps just for Daddy.

[Guy Fawkes]

About 75K

 

PS: I wonder how many unique users visit this site on an at least once-a-month basis?

[+ stevenkesslar]

About 75K

 

Now that you are with us, do you want to weigh in on what form of automatic debit/credit scheme(s) work best for you? As I suspected a number of us would like to give that way. I think we need to keep specific details discreet to private messages, but it might be good to have a general discussion here.

 

As I told you privately I can do monthly private bank to bank transfers free of charge and you mentioned tools lije Google Wallet that are free. Once you get into Pay Pal you get into fees that would likely make $5 monthly donations worthless after the fee is taken off. My own view is that it might make sense to have multiple options but it sounds like people are open to donating and the simpler the better.

[bigvalboy]

Now that you are with us, do you want to weigh in on what form of automatic debit/credit scheme(s) work best for you? As I suspected a number of us would like to give that way. I think we need to keep specific details discreet to private messages, but it might be good to have a general discussion here.

 

As I told you privately I can do monthly private bank to bank transfers free of charge and you mentioned tools lije Google Wallet that are free. Once you get into Pay Pal you get into fees that would likely make $5 monthly donations worthless after the fee is taken off. My own view is that it might make sense to have multiple options but it sounds like people are open to donating and the simpler the better.

 

Just a quick comment. I would prefer a yearly membership paid up front. On a couple of sites they automatically debit my card once a month. When they do, my phone sends me a text that the card has been debited, and of course their computer always manages to generate the debit at 3 am, which of course wakes me up, and since I don't know who texted me, I think it might be an emergency text from a loved one....I have to turn on the damn light, fumble around for my phone, find my glasses, go into my phone to see who sent the text...only to see that it's from this stupid company that handles the pay for the website. It infuriates me every time it happens. There...I finished venting and I feel so much better.

[+ Rickee]

A Message from Daddy:

....This month I'm having to shift a significant number of hours. The strain is almost overwhelming.

.... I can cover this month's expense by dipping heavily into savings.

Seems to me that some near-term assistance is in order.

 

Two axioms of successful fundraising are to make the contribution process EASY, and to include a mechanism that can capture a contributor's SPONTANEOUS feelings of good will.

 

I, for one, have written out a check this evening, put the stamp on the envelope, and just walked it out to the mailbox. If you're inclined to do the same this evening, allow me to make it a little EASIER for you by posting the relevant information below:

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g367/Rickeeee/Mobile%20Uploads/CBCB9ED3-61E1-472F-BF9D-D6FE1821220A.png_zpsfn5qansp.jpeg

[+ azdr0710]

about once a year, I do just what it says in the above instructions....yup, cash (!) in a greeting card in the mail.....

 

I will say, compared to, say, the all-too-frequent PBS begging campaigns, Daddy's infrequent "campaigns" are not onerous at all

[Lookin]

How about a Pay-by-Post Plan for us pikers who just use the Forums?

 

For $10 a month, you could read a hundred posts. For $25 a month, you could read fifty posts. And for $50 a month, you wouldn't have to read any posts at all!

 

The Premium Plan would double the rates and black out the Politics Forum. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

[+ stevenkesslar]

Seems to me that some near-term assistance is in order.

 

Two axioms of successful fundraising are to make the contribution process EASY, and to include a mechanism that can capture a contributor's SPONTANEOUS feelings of good will.

 

 

+ 1000

 

As I mentioned above, I'm wrapping up a week of pretty emotionally intense family "stuff," and I also am working off an iPhone and iPad which is slightly more technically awkward. I will return home tomorrow.

 

I spoke for a while with Daddy today shortly after he launched this thread and I think there are a variety of fairly simple and EASY ways to create a flexible funding mechanism that allows people like LatBear4Blk and me to make monthly automatic donations, but gives other people the flexibility to make a one-time donation or help in other ways.

 

I also think SPONTANEOUS makes incredibly good sense. I would like to get this settled in a matter of days. I think it is a relatively simple fix and we can mostly solve it just based on the number of people that have already replied to this thread. The main thing I think we need to think through a little more is the technical aspect of making it as easy as possible for those who want to contribute, and for Daddy to access the funds, without having to lose a lot of it in fees.

 

On Sunday I plan to set up a private chain message to everybody who has indicated an interest in helping, including several people that have PM'd me. If you have not yet spoken but are interested in playing a role please comment on this thread or PM me. Given the relatively small number of people involved and the good will we share I feel confident we will be able to come up with a consensus among ourselves regarding some simple approaches that meet Daddy's needs, and with your permission my goal is to help facilitate that happening happily and quickly.

 

Whatever we all decide to do will involve a discreet exchange of private and confidential information like email addresses or bank routing numbers which is why I think this is best handled either through PMs or through private emails. Having said that, my own opinion is that this has been a very useful and productive discussion already.

 

At the risk of sounding repetitive and facile let me underscore one point that I think is key. I think any attempt to force everybody to pay any kind of mandatory membership fee will throw the baby out with the bathwater. At some future point maybe that is an idea for other people to look at with Daddy as what I'm calling a "revenue model," meaning a model that turns this site into a profit machine. But that is not what Daddy asked for, and I don't see why we need to go there right now to address the much simpler problem he actually presented to us.

 

I think the voluntary "family model" is far better, meaning all we need is a small group of the 75,000 or so people who look at this site to step forward and help in a small and painless way that allows those of us who can help to feel good. I think if a few dozen people with good hearts do what we have been doing so far on this thread we can come up with something that is not rigid or coercive and allows people of good will to do what it will actually give us pleasure to do. I personally feel like this website has been a godsend for me for 16 years, both as an escort and also just as a Gay man who likes to blab. I am incredibly grateful to Hooboy for what he started and to Daddy and his administrators for what he and they continued. There is no part of this that feels complicated or difficult to me, any more than it is complicated or difficult to help my real father or brother in a time of need. For me personally it feels like a blessing.

[+ saminseattle]

Awhile ago, there was a thread about what people would change about this site. I responded that I was not so concerned with how to improve the site as I was that it be preserved and sustained. I asked rhetorically, “what if I woke up one morning, and it was just gone? All the anecdotes and pearls of wisdom and heartfelt advice…the treasure trove of information and edification that is embodied in all these threads…All gone?” That question is not feeling so rhetorical for me now.

 

After the immediate financial issue is ameliorated, I think we need to take a step back and ask ourselves what it takes to maintain the review website and this forum. I have no doubt that one of the key ingredients is a little money, hopefully a steady and predictable steam of it, and people have already put forward some good ideas there. But it also takes time, expertise (mainly technological but also legal, financial, etc.), personal dedication, and frankly, courage. When only one or a few people are shouldering the entire burden, I’m sure it can be “overwhelming,” to use Daddy’s word. Perhaps part of the solution might be for people to chip in their time and/or expertise somehow as well as their money? Something to think about at least.

[+ Charlie]

I would be willing to give regular support to keep the site working, but I am one of those who does not like to give automatic monthly payments, even though I understand why most of the organizations I contribute to would prefer it. I also don't like to make electronic/ credit card payments--I am old fashioned enough to pay all my bills by check. So I am prepared to send a yearly donation or membership fee.