Coming Out Late in Life

[+ glennnn]

I'm struggling with some personally momentous decisions regarding coming out to family and friends at age 72. I have already connected with a couple of guys on this forum who seem to have concerns or experience in this area, but it has been as a side bar to other issues. I would appreciate a broader discussion from any of you who have time to express your thoughts.

 

After a lifetime in the closet, can I ethically drop this bomb on a wife, kids, business partners, friends, clients, etc even though homosexuality has gained so much acceptance now? Keep in mind it is more about the deceit now than the sexual identity.

[+ Topseed]

Yes, you can. You are the only person who votes on how you wish to lead your life. Focus on the future.

[+ WilliamM]

After a lifetime in the closet, can I ethically drop this bomb on a wife, kids, business partners, friends, clients, etc even though homosexuality has gained so much acceptance now? Keep in mind it is more about the deceit now than the sexual identity.

 

glennnn, there is no right or wrong answer. When I came out years ago, almost everyone was supportive. Not everyone though; it's very difficult to know before you actually tell someone.

 

I understand in your situation deceit may be a bigger issue than sexuality. I am also 72-years old, but I do not have a wife and children. Remember: you are not a terrible person or a failure if you decide not to say anything. On the other hand, do you want those closest to you to find out after you die? Whatever decision you make will be, I am sure, the right one for you. My very best wishes.

 

William

[mike carey]

You can do it ethically, but there will be consequences some of which you may not like. This is incedibly difficult and no two people will have the same answer. With most of the people you listed, what they think isn't critically important. Some will understand, some will not, many won't care. I won't say what they think doesn't matter as you may lose some long term friends, but their reactions will not have a profound affect on your life. You don't need to be out to everyone, and even if you decide to tell everyone eventually you don't need to do it all at once.

 

What your wife and kids think is much more significant, and what you do depends on the nature of those family relationships. Do you still love your wife, do you still have a sexual relationship with her? Do you think she has any idea about your sexuality? It also depends on what sort of gay relationships you want. If you want a full-on relationship with a man the calculus is clearly different than if you only want occasional (or even frequent) intimate contact with other men. Marriage is as much a social contract as it is a romantic one, so it's possible that the social (and mutual support) aspects of your marriage could survive this if you want it to.

 

As William said, there is no right or wrong answer. Only you know your wife and what she might do, so you have to be clear eyed about how and what you decide to do, weighing the possible reactions. Like William, I came out late - early 5os - and didn't have a wife or children, and I had retired so no need to come out to work colleagues. I am out to my closest family but while I don't lie about it, I don't tell people unless someone raises the issue.

 

Good luck with all of this!

[Rudynate]

I

 

After a lifetime in the closet, can I ethically drop this bomb on a wife, kids, business partners, friends, clients, etc even though homosexuality has gained so much acceptance now? Keep in mind it is more about the deceit now than the sexual identity.

 

If you don't come out to them, you're still in the closet, albeit a slightly larger one.

[marylander1940]

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNDM0MDc0MjM2N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTU2MzA0MQ@@._V1_SX214_AL_.jpg

[+ WilliamM]

With most of the people you listed, what they think isn't critically important. Some will understand, some will not, many won't care. I won't say what they think doesn't matter as you may lose some long term friends, but their reactions will not have a profound affect on your life

 

As William said, there is no right or wrong answer. Only you know your wife and what she might do, so you have to be clear eyed about how and what you decide to do, weighing the possible reactions. Like William, I came out late - early 5os - and didn't have a wife or children, and I had retired so no need to come out to work colleagues

 

Two relatively minor points, Mike. We do not know how important the lose of long-term friends may be to glennnn.

 

I was considerably younger than you when I came out. And I worked for many years after (as recently as 2010). The best part, once you tell a few people at work, the news travels fast:)

 

Your response was wonderful, thoughtful and caring, a pleasure to read.

[+ glennnn]

You can do it ethically, but there will be consequences some of which you may not like. This is incedibly difficult and no two people will have the same answer. With most of the people you listed, what they think isn't critically important. Some will understand, some will not, many won't care. I won't say what they think doesn't matter as you may lose some long term friends, but their reactions will not have a profound affect on your life. You don't need to be out to everyone, and even if you decide to tell everyone eventually you don't need to do it all at once.

 

 

 

What your wife and kids think is much more significant, and what you do depends on the nature of those family relationships. Do you still love your wife, do you still have a sexual relationship with her? Do you think she has any idea about your sexuality? It also depends on what sort of gay relationships you want. If you want a full-on relationship with a man the calculus is clearly different than if you only want occasional (or even frequent) intimate contact with other men. Marriage is as much a social contract as it is a romantic one, so it's possible that the social (and mutual support) aspecct of your marriage could survive this if you want it to.

 

As William said, there is no right or wrong answer. Only you know your wife and what she might do, so you have to be clear eyed about how and what you decide to do, weighing the possible reactions. Like William, I came out late - early 5os - and didn't have a wife or children, and I had retired so no need to come out to work colleagues. I am out to my closest family but while I don't lie about it, I don't tell people unless someone raises the issue.

 

Good luck with all of this!

 

Mike,

 

You bring up some very thoughtful and helpful points that I need time to really digest. My situation is complicated by the fact that I have no one in my life who knows I am gay except the escort I have seen once. My conversations with myself about this issue are no longer very sane, much less productive.

 

I do feel some urgency, because something is waking and growing inside. I had my first ever escort appointment in August. It was earth shaking. I will see him again in October, and from what I read here, it should be even better. I catch myself cruising men in public. I hit on a bartender in a regular straight bar- the first m/m flirting of my life.

 

I am sure I am not the first guy on this forum to look for help on this difficult ethical issue, and I don't want to fill the space here with my whining, but it is so Fucking good to have this dialogue with you and the others. I am going to seek out a psychologist as a counsellor, preferably a gay one. I think I had better do it soon. I think I have to shit or get off the pot.

 

Thank you for your good offices.

[Lookin]

You and I are pretty close in age although I've never been married, so some of my thoughts may be helpful and others not so much. But here goes:

 

My coming out has been an organic process (so to speak http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif ) that has lasted fifty years. It has always happened on a relationship-by-relationship basis, and I've always taken into account the other person's feelings as well as my own. And, as you say, it has been more about honesty than about sexual identity.

 

To begin with, my sexual identity has always been part of who I am, but not all of who I am and, in many cases, not even the most important part. For example, in a work environment, my relationships have been based on the results I deliver on the job and not so much on who I sleep with off the job. So, I rarely discuss sexuality with coworkers and clients, unless I form personal relationships with them.

 

In fact, when I realized I was irrevocably gay in my twenties, I was working in management for a Fortune 500 company. Although that company is known for being very gay friendly today, forty-five years ago my coming out at work would have been a career-ender. So I never did. However, I have maintained a few friendships from those days, and today those friends do know I'm gay.

 

With friends, there comes a time as the relationship grows closer that my sexual identity is just one more thing I share as we get to know one another better. To withhold that information, even if it's not central to what we talk about, would feel disingenuous. When I have told these friends I'm gay, I've often been surprised at how un-surprised they were.

 

Family has been a bit trickier, but not much. When I began living with my partner, those family members with whom I was closest knew right away who he was in my life. Those family members who didn't seem to want to ask a lot of questions, didn't hear it from me. I tried to respect their comfort levels, and did not have anything that I needed to prove. But all of my family members were kind to him, asked about him, and included him. Whether they chose to dive more deeply into the mechanics of the relationship was up to them. They knew he was someone very important to me, and that was often enough. If they asked me, they would have heard everything.

 

One thing that has changed over the years has been my own honesty. As I mentioned, forty-five years ago when I was building a career, and being gay would have torpedoed it, I pretended to be straight. Actually, like most of my co-workers, I just didn't talk about my sex life. It wasn't considered professional. I would often have a 'beard' for company social events. I wouldn't do that today, partly because times have changed and partly because I have changed. If someone is truly interested in who I am, I am going to truly tell them.

 

As far as more casual acquaintances, there are some folks in our generation who have difficulties with homosexuality. They would prefer not to think about it. If they are inherently destructive people and are out to harm others, I have no problem at all putting my contrary views in their face. But, if they would prefer to go to their graves never even thinking about the issue of gays in their midst, I do not have a fire within me to convince them they are wrongheaded.

 

I haven't faced the issue, as you have, of telling a wife and children that I am gay. So I don't know that I can offer any insights there. As you have said, it's an issue more of deceit than one of sexual identity. Your wife will probably be the most affected by any dalliances you have outside the marriage, whether homosexual or heterosexual. This may be a time for you to talk with a professional to find the best way to speak with your wife. Your happiness is important, no doubt, but so is hers. You seem like a very decent person, and I'm sure you want the best outcome for both you and your wife.

 

A therapist would probably also have some good insights for talking with your children as well. But it's worth noting that your most critical parenting days are probably behind you. Hopefully, they are well enough adjusted to realize that your happiness is as important to them as theirs has been to you. Of course, they will want to see their mother taken care of so, once you have that figured out, they will probably be OK. If you feel that one or more of them will have a hard time with the news, you could always ask them a hypothetical question about how they would handle it if they ever find the need to come out to their children. Their answers may give you the roadmap you need to handle it with them.

 

And one final thought. We are at a time when the whole world seems to be coming out, and there are folks who think it's one's moral duty to declare sexual preferences from the rooftops. I've never been quite there, in part because my sexual preferences have evolved over the years. If I had to heave myself up onto the rooftop every time I found a new organ to play, I'm afraid my lumbago would have the last word.

 

[+ WilliamM]

My conversations with myself about this issue are no longer very sane, much less productive.

 

but it is so Fucking good to have this dialogue with you and the others. I am going to seek out a psychologist as a counsellor, preferably a gay one. I think I had better do it soon. I think I have to shit or get off the pot.

 

glennnn, I saw a psychiatrist before I came out. It made all the difference in the world to be able to talk to someone honestly for the first time. It was much easier than I imagined. I simply called my regular doctor, told him the situation in a few sentences, and he recommended a wonderful psychiatrist. To me, it did not make any difference if the psychiatrist was a man or woman, gay or straight -- having a very good psychiatrist is the issue. I am not rich, but I did not care about price either. Like you, I had to resolve things finally.

[+ glennnn]

You and I are pretty close in age although I've never been married, so some of my thoughts may be helpful and others not so much. But here goes:

 

My coming out has been an organic process (so to speak http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif ) that has lasted fifty years. It has always happened on a relationship-by-relationship basis, and I've always taken into account the other person's feelings as well as my own. And, as you say, it has been more about honesty than about sexual identity.

To begin with, my sexual identity has always been part of who I am, but not all of who I am and, in many cases, not even the most important part. For example, in a work environment, my relationships have been based on the results I deliver on the job and not so much on who I sleep with off the job. So, I rarely discuss sexuality with coworkers and clients, unless I form personal relationships with them.

 

In fact, when I realized I was irrevocably gay in my twenties, I was working in management for a Fortune 500 company. Although that company is known for being very gay friendly today, forty-five years ago my coming out at work would have been a career-ender. So I never did. However, I have maintained a few friendships from those days, and today those friends do know I'm gay.

 

With friends, there comes a time as the relationship grows closer that my sexual identity is just one more thing I share as we get to know one another better. To withhold that information, even if it's not central to what we talk about, would feel disingenuous. When I have told these friends I'm gay, I've often been surprised at how un-surprised they were.

 

Family has been a bit trickier, but not much. When I began living with my partner, those family members with whom I was closest knew right away who he was in my life. Those family members who didn't seem to want to ask a lot of questions, didn't hear it from me. I tried to respect their comfort levels, and did not have anything that I needed to prove. But all of my family members were kind him, asked about him, and included him. Whether they chose to dive more deeply into the mechanics of the relationship was up to them. They knew he was someone very important to me, and that was often enough. If they asked me, they would have heard everything.

 

One thing that has changed over the years has been my own honesty. As I mentioned, forty-five years ago when I was building a career, and being gay would have torpedoed it, I pretended to be straight. Actually, like most of my co-workers, I just didn't talk about my sex life. It wasn't considered professional. I would often have a 'beard' for company social events. I wouldn't do that today, partly because times have changed and partly because I have changed. If someone is truly interested in who I am, I am going to truly tell them.

 

As far as more casual acquaintances, there are some folks in our generation who have difficulties with homosexuality. They would prefer not to think about it. If they are inherently destructive people and are out to harm others, I have no problem at all putting my contrary views in their face. But, if they would prefer to go to their graves never even thinking about the issue of gays in their midst, I do not have a fire within me to convince them they are wrongheaded.

 

I haven't faced the issue, as you have, of telling a wife and children that I am gay. So I don't know that I can offer any insights there. As you have said, it's an issue more of deceit than one of sexual identity. Your wife will probably be the most affected by any dalliances you have outside the marriage, whether homosexual or heterosexual. This may be a time for you to talk with a professional to find the best way to speak with your wife. Your happiness is important, no doubt, but so is hers. You seem like a very decent person, and I'm sure you want the best outcome for both you and your wife.

 

A therapist would probably also have some good insights for talking with your children as well. But it's worth noting that your most critical parenting days are probably behind you. Hopefully, they are well enough adjusted to realize that your happiness is as important to them as theirs has been to you. Of course, they will want to see their mother taken care of so, once you have that figured out, they will probably be OK. If you feel that one or more of them will have a hard time with the news, you could always ask them a hypothetical question about how they would handle it if they ever find the need to come out to their children. Their answers may give you the roadmap you need to handle it with them.

 

And one final thought. We are at a time when the whole world seems to be coming out, and there are folks who think it's one's moral duty to declare sexual preferences from the rooftops. I've never been quite there, in part because my sexual preferences have evolved over the years. If I had to heave myself up onto the rooftop every time I found a new organ to play, I'm afraid my lumbago would have the last word.

 

[/quote

 

Excellent and cogent remarks, as are those made by Mike and William on this thread. I especially appreciate the concept of sexual identity being organic and mutable. I've always been gay and my professional life was certainly a clue.... theater, design , travel industry. But I've lived as a straight man. This was easier when the gay world was hidden and inaccessible. Today it is out and proud and just a mouse click away.

 

Also, alas, many of my peers are dying now and

 

At my back I always hear

Time's winged chariot hurrying near....

The grave's a fine and private place,

But none I think do there embrace. Andrew Marvell

 

Thank you,

Glenn

[Epigonos]

The right or correct answer to your question is easy. Do exactly what you want to do and don't listen to any of the rest of us. Each of us has our own ethic regarding this matter and how we respond is our own private concern.

 

I'm 74 about to be 75 and have been in the "closet" all of my life. I have never married and have never been in a long term relationship with a women thus I'm certain that most, if not all, of my family and friends assume I'm gay. Fine I have no problem with that, that don't ask and I don't tell. Why you might ask? The answer is simple -- I'm comfortable and happy with the life I'm living and I don't intend to change it. My life style works for me but I certainly do not assume it would or should work for anybody else. The only person who has the right to tell someone how they should live their life is that person himself or herself.

[+ WilliamM]

You bring up some very thoughtful and helpful points that I need time to really digest. My situation is complicated by the fact that I have no one in my life who knows I am gay except the escort I have seen once. My conversations with myself about this issue are no longer very sane, much less productive.

 

 

The right or correct answer to your question is easy. Do exactly what you want to do and don't listen to any of the rest of us. Each of us has our own ethic regarding this matter and how we respond is our own private concern.

 

I'm 74 about to be 75 and have been in the "closet" all of my life. I have never married and have never been in a long term relationship with a women thus I'm certain that most, if not all, of my family and friends assume I'm gay. Fine I have no problem with that, that don't ask and I don't tell. Why you might ask? The answer is simple -- I'm comfortable and happy with the life I'm living and I don't intend to change it. My life style works for me but I certainly do not assume it would or should work for anybody else. The only person who has the right to tell someone how they should live their life is that person himself or herself.

 

Epigonos, I respect you very nuch. But, I wonder if you read glennnn's last sentence in his last post (see above).

[+ sync]

I say don't rock the boat. Unless your family life has become unusually stressful and/or you are contemplating a long-term relationship with another man, I don't see any gain in terminating an otherwise fulfilling family life. Remaining respectful, loving, and supportive to your family defines you as an ethical individual. An occasional hormonal indulgence does not make you a bad person. There are many other ethical individuals who are doing the same thing.

[+ glennnn]

A new voice and new POV. Thanks, Sync. I don't want to change my whole life, when it comes down to it. I love and appreciate my wife; we are great friends and take good care of each other. But there's a growing part of me that is willing to take risks to have sex with a man. Got to talk to someone and find some balance.

[Wolfer]

I say don't rock the boat. Unless your family life has become unusually stressful and/or you are contemplating a long-term relationship with another man, I don't see any gain in terminating an otherwise fulfilling family life. Remaining respectful, loving, and supportive to your family defines you an an ethical individual. An occasional hormonal indulgence does not make you a bad person. There are many other ethical individuals who are doing the same thing.

The fact Glennn spent some time of his first hire in tears I think it's safe to say there's a lot of pent up stress and emotion.

It may sound sappy, but at the end of the day, you need to follow your joy. If a situation is EXpiring you instead of INspiring you it's time for a change.

Does this mean coming out of the closet? Only you can answer that question. But a wise man once said: "ANY action is better than inaction."

 

How do you climb a mountain? By putting one foot in front of the other, one step at a time, there's no need to know the whole way right now. Just ask: "What's the next step?" I think getting counseling is an excellent choice. I personally think that a gay therapist would be a benefit, if he's a good therapist. Speaking from two decades of being in therapy, one of the most important things for a good counselling relationship is that the client feels at ease and understood. If going to see a gay therapist will facilitate this, it's a good choice.

 

http://www.matthewjdempsey.com/

He's a gay therapist and also has a youtube page with video's on various topics. He offers sessions over Skype or Facetime too, for people not within his neighbourhood. I haven't personally had a session with him because he's (quite a bit) above my budget, but just have look at his Youtube video's. He gives off a good vibe with great insights.

[+ glennnn]

Wolfer, you didn't mention he is gorgeous. Where does he practice?

[+ purplekow]

Why tell them? If you can answer that, no matter what the answer is, then tell them. If you do not have an answer, clearly decide what it is and then tell them.

This will be either very complicated, for example, if you have been having sex with men for decades and have been actively lying to keep this secret.

Or it will be very easy, if say, after years of wondering and considering, you felt the need to expand your sexual horizons, and you had sex with a man. One man. One time. You enjoyed it and you want to do it again and at this point in your life you deserve to do things that make you happy so you are doing this, not to make the family unhappy or because of anything they have said or done, only to try and keep yourself happy and active.

Do you want to divorce your wife. If you are having sex with her and she is expecting a monogamous relationship, you may have no choice, she may need that. Or she may be happy that she does not need to have sex with a 72 year old man any more.

Besides your wife, who is owed an explanation in full with no punches pulled, it really is not anyone else's business. I would say you owe your wife an explanation because of the infidelity not the sex partner. Who knows, may be she wants to do a three way with you and the escort.

[Guy Fawkes]

Do what will make you happy in your Golden Years. Your not alone and your by no means the oldest.

 

"Caitlyn Marie Jenner, formerly known as William Bruce Jenner and Bruce Jenner, is a retired American athlete known for winning the men's decathlon at the 1976 Summer Olympics.

Born

: October 28, 1949 (age 65)

"

Wikipedia

 

After a lifetime in the closet, can I ethically drop this bomb on a wife, kids, business partners, friends, clients, etc even though homosexuality has gained so much acceptance now? Keep in mind it is more about the deceit now than the sexual identity.

[Wolfer]

Wolfer, you didn't mention he is gorgeous. Where does he practice?

Didn't want to spoil the surprise.

He's in West Hollywood, but if you can get used to it, sessions over Skype work just as well as in-person sessions. I have weekly Skype calls with my coach, for example.

[+ glennnn]

Why tell them? If you can answer that, no matter what the answer is, then tell them. If you do not have an answer, clearly decide what it is and then tell them.

This will be either very complicated, for example, if you have been having sex with men for decades and have been actively lying to keep this secret.

Or it will be very easy, if say, after years of wondering and considering, you felt the need to expand your sexual horizons, and you had sex with a man. One man. One time. You enjoyed it and you want to do it again and at this point in your life you deserve to do things that make you happy so you are doing this, not to make the family unhappy or because of anything they have said or done, only to try and keep yourself happy and active.

Do you want to divorce your wife. If you are having sex with her and she is expecting a monogamous relationship, you may have no choice, she may need that. Or she may be happy that she does not need to have sex with a 72 year old man any more.

Besides your wife, who is owed an explanation in full with no punches pulled, it really is not anyone else's business. I would say you owe your wife an explanation because of the infidelity not the sex partner. Who knows, may be she wants to do a three way with you and the escort.

 

The only real reason to tell my wife is to alleviate my guilt about my once and future infidelities should they happen, and I'm thinking they will, because I need intimate contact with a man so badly. So, it's an internal, personal battle I must face. Right! Right?

 

No decision today.

[+ glennnn]

Thanks to you all!!!!! It is so great to communicate with my brothers. You are all, smart, persuasive, articulate, and kind. My head is spinning, and I think I need a nap.

[+ glennnn]

Didn't want to spoil the surprise.

He's in West Hollywood, but if you can get used to it, sessions over Skype work just as well as in-person sessions. I have weekly Skype calls with my coach, for example.

 

All I can say, is if I'm going to talk to HIM, it will be in person!

[+ WilliamM]

All I can say, is if I'm going to talk to HIM, it will be in person

 

glennnn, We are same age now, and I went through this many years ago. My opinion: You need to be in the same room with a therapist and talk openly about your life. The first few sessions will not be easy because you have not talked about being gay, except with an escort. Your concerns about family, friends and business associates will also be uncomfortable to discuss. But, the rewards are worth it. You can hire, and not feel guilty and finally be yourself. Much of this is outside your control because you do not how others will react, especially your wife. Skype is fine for the future, but not for your initial appointments, in my opinion. Again, my heart goes out to you!

 

William

[Guest]

The only real reason to tell my wife is to alleviate my guilt about my once and future infidelities should they happen, and I'm thinking they will, because I need intimate contact with a man so badly. So, it's an internal, personal battle I must face. Right! Right?

 

Well, I'm not sure "to alleviate my guilt" seems like a compelling reason to me. I would rather have heard "to finally be completely honest with my wife, who deserves to know the truth after all of these years" as the reason. This information is bound to hurt your wife's feelings. Yes, hopefully if you come out, you may live a happier, more honest life, and feel better about yourself. But I would go about this in a very apologetic manner. I don't envy your task. There will, of course, be negative as well as positive consequences. I obviously don't know your wife, so I have no idea if she will ever forgive you, but I would suspect that anger might be one of the first emotions she experiences.