Airline Loyalty (or not)

[mike carey]

I'm not sure this is the right place, but here goes. I have read comments about various US airlines and accounts of them that indicate many should be condemned to Hell but that is to digress. I plan to start travelling to and in the US more often in part to meet some of the guys I have seen in this forum (I did travel in the US in the past, paid for by my employer). With whom should I fly? Who has good service, and who has frequent flyer programs worth thinking about?

 

I have left-over memberships with AA and UA, both of which I could resurrect, and a current Qantas membership that has links to AA. The other Australian airline (Virgin Australia) has links to Delta and Virgin America. If I want to travel in the US should I try to use American, United or Delta, or someone else? Does an airline like South West provide a service that is good enough for you to ignore the benefits of flying with the other carriers?

 

My travel is not all about harvesting airline miles, but I'm not about to ignore them!!

[+ deej]

Harvest them all.

 

You can't really rely on a single airline for all routes. Flying out of Chicago, it's hard to avoid United. (It's their primary US hub.) When I was routinely flying between Chicago and Little Rock, I had two choices. TWA through St. Louis (which was plagued by delays at the transfer), or a direct flight on Southwest. I always opted for the direct flight.

 

I personally encounter delayed or cancelled flights often when flying UA, but I haven't used them since the merger with Continental. When I was spending a lot of time in Denver, the hotel I used was the hotel United used for stranded passengers and crew. (The bar conversations were a scream. Stranded crews and passengers, BOTH bitching about United! LOL) Hotel staff told me they had as many as 150 United guests every night of the year.

 

My preference at the moment is AA, but that's partly inertia, partly the routes I've been flying, and partly because I get miles with them on a credit card.

 

You can't stick to just one airline for all US travel.

[mike carey]

Thanks for those comments Deej. Harvest them all was my initial idea too. AA (and QF) are the easiest for me too. I don't much like UA but if they are the best for where I want to travel, so be it!

[+ deej]

OneWorld Alliance is where AA and QF tie together. I think there are other smaller domestic airlines in OneWorld. (Alaska Airlines jumps to mind.)

 

UA is a member of Star Alliance, I think.

 

It can make sense to keep within one alliance even if you use several airlines. (There are hotel chains that participate in these alliances too.) You'll usually be participating in a single umbrella rewards program.

[+ Charlie]

AA and USAirways are completing a merger during the next month, and there could be confusion and messiness. I am flying this week on USA tickets for a probably overbooked AA flight, and I am somewhat nervous, because it was the only way I could reasonably get to where I need to go. Passenger surveys often rate Virgin America as the best domestic airline, but it has very limited service. Alaska is a good choice on the west coast, but it has limited connections to the rest of the country. I have mixed feelings about United, which I have been flying for a half century, and have had some of my best and worst experiences with them. But deej is correct: it is hard to travel all over this country using a single airline.

[+ deej]

I was on a "USA operated by AA" flight a month ago, days before the merger was approved. By all means make sure you do online checkin before arriving at the airport. I forgot to do that and neither airline's airport kiosks would let me check in. I had to stand in line and have an actual person check me in.

 

Chaos is putting it mildly. I was thinking of a different c-word of military origin. It rhymes with fuster cluck.

[Lankypeters]

I was mostly satisfied with Continental, but since it became United I have been somewhat less satisfied. I have used United for my annual trips to Scotland and, by and large, they've been okay. Their Business/First service is good -- as coach was good 40 years ago (that's on the rare occasions when I've booked upgrades, usually a year in advance). But, generally speaking, United couldn't care a fig about frequent flyers, like myself, who do not have Silver or Gold status. And I've even read gripes from travelers in those categories. I don't know why the airlines perpetuate the myth of flyer rewards in the form of flight tickets. Offers of upgrades and freebie mileage awards are nearly tantamount to false advertising. As for the others, I've heard good reports on Virgin. Before the merger, American was the worst of them all. Can you sail and take the train?

[mike carey]

Thanks Deej and Charlie. Many airlines manage to operate as cluster f**ks. Alaska does link into one world but not entirely.

[bigvalboy]

Virgin boy here....when I can, I am a very loyal traveler with them, however their flights are limited, especially in and out of certain locations. Beyond that, AA is my next choice. Extremely friendly and accommodating in my experience, though I switched to Delta on an upcoming flight, when their pricing was several hundred dollars lower than the next competitor, and they offered a FC lounge on every leg, that was actually open when I was traveling. First time on Delta that I can remember, so we'll see how it goes.

[+ Gar1eth]

There was just an article in the New York Times last week or so. I'm not sure how it works. But Delta either now or is about to start not listing a flat point/mileage number you need to redeem for flights. Apparently the mileage required is going to change for individual flights.

 

If you stick with American, try to use Alaska Air as much as possible (I would use Alaska Air but enter my American Airlines Frequent Flyer Number).

 

The seats in coach on Alaska are usually much more comfortable than they are on American.

 

"Over the last 18 months, Delta Air Lines has been engaged in some sleight of hand of its own. The airline no longer posts any award chart explaining how many miles your free tickets will require, the way that United and American Airlines still do. But Delta also hasn’t moved to a transparent miles redemption system that is based entirely on the cash price that the “free” ticket would otherwise cost, as Southwest Airlines and JetBlue Airways do.

Instead, Delta issues proclamations like this one that came along a few weeks ago: “For travel on or after June 1, 2016, the number of miles needed will change based on destination, demand and other considerations. But most Award prices will remain unchanged.”

 

Gman

[Diverdan]

I travel mostly on United... almost 2 million miles with them, and have 1K status and have had Global Service status with them in the past. I get a lot of upgrades and many at no cost and no miles. Yes, they have their problems, but my experience with AA has been worse, and I suspect that as they complete the merger with US Air, things will be a bit rough, as they were with the United-Continental merger. I never fly Southwest, as it is never convenient for me, although I have friends that fly them a lot. I don't like the "cattle car" mentality, as I want to pick my seat in advance. I have been very lucky and very successful with three "around the world" flights on the Star Alliance, as that is by far the best and largest affiliation of airlines. I know that One World also has "around the world" pricing and discounts, and if you can take advantage of the requirements, it is by far the cheapest way to do international travel. If you want further details, you can send me a PM. I am planning another "around the world" flight in early 2015, and hope that the airlines don't drop or change the requirements too much before this trip.

 

If you are an infrequent flyer, then you may be better using a credit card that does not tie mileage to one airline, but allows you to use your points to purchase fares or upgrades on a variety of airlines. As others have said, there unfortunately not one airline that can meet all of your needs, it all depends on where and when you are flying.

 

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your time in the USA. In spite of our flaws and crazy politics, this is still a wonderful county to visit and most who live here are very friendly and enjoy meeting folks from other countries.

 

DD

[oceansunshine]

There was just an article in the New York Times last week or so. I'm not sure how it works. But Delta either now or is about to start not listing a flat point/mileage number you need to redeem for flights. Apparently the mileage required is going to change for individual flights.

 

If you stick with American, try to use Alaska Air as much as possible (I would use Alaska Air but enter my American Airlines Frequent Flyer Number).

 

The seats in coach on Alaska are usually much more comfortable than they are on American.

 

"Over the last 18 months, Delta Air Lines has been engaged in some sleight of hand of its own. The airline no longer posts any award chart explaining how many miles your free tickets will require, the way that United and American Airlines still do. But Delta also hasn’t moved to a transparent miles redemption system that is based entirely on the cash price that the “free” ticket would otherwise cost, as Southwest Airlines and JetBlue Airways do.

Instead, Delta issues proclamations like this one that came along a few weeks ago: “For travel on or after June 1, 2016, the number of miles needed will change based on destination, demand and other considerations. But most Award prices will remain unchanged.”

 

Gman

 

 

FYI. I do fly Delta quite a bit (as recently as a few days ago) and am happy with their FF program. Their service onboard and ease of of using / booking a flight with FF points is very simple online. In addition, over the last year, their on-time arrivals (for my flights) have been better than my UA or AA flights over the same period.

 

Doug

[+ pdxleo]

Agree that Alaska Air is the top choice on the West Coast- have been using USAir for cross-country for the last several years ( thank you, Sully Sullenberger!), but am concerned about the American -USAir merger, have had had nightmares in both Dallas and Chicago in the past. Really hoping the new conglomerate keeps their cross-country routes out of Phoenix and Charlotte in operation- much more convenient and easier to navigate these smaller terminals.

[nate_sf]

Virgin America is my first choice, but as bigvalboy mentions the routes are limited. But if they are going where you want, the fares are competitive, the service is good, and they tend to be on time more often than not. I also like Southwest, for practical reasons as they run a tight ship and don't fuck things up too often, plus you can change or cancel a flight without penalties.

 

For trips I typically check Virgin and Southwest first for schedule and price, and sometimes split the trip between the two. I can't remember the last time I saw a round trip be more cost effective than going a la carte, though I know that's how it used to be.

 

Third choice, based on schedule more than anything would be UAL for me. Since SFO is a hub for them they have good availability of routes and schedules, but there's always the concern about whether the flight will actually happen. I've had more cancellations or delays on UAL than I can count, but still sometimes it's the only choice. And to be fair, I'd say they are on time more often than not, and for the most part the service is fine.

 

I have mileage programs on all of them, and over time they all accrue flights but for me not enough to earn special status on any of them.

[fedssocr1]

Alaska is not a member of oneworld. They actually have agreements with several airlines that are in the various alliances as well as independents. So their program can be a good choice to credit miles to if you have the option.

 

Personally I have sworn to never fly UA ever again. Most of my miles these days are in AA's program especially since the US merger. What I like about that is access to Cathay Pacific to fly to Asia in comfort and style. The only thing I really don't like about AA's frequent flier program is their outdated routing rules for awards.

 

Coming from Australia I'd imagine that sticking with Qantas/AA makes sense.

[Zman]

My favorite thing about flying is that I only do it once a year. So I have no real advice for you. The service and experience of US airlines is, for the most part, dismal. So don't expect much. IDK if things are any better in Australia or not.

 

Competition has all but vanished among airlines here. So were left with an industry in an oligopoly mentality. You will be nickled and dimed for every little thing. Maybe, just maybe, if you (or your employer) can afford business or first class things might be a little better. But maybe not.

[Guest]

My favorite thing about flying is that I only do it once a year. So I have no real advice for you.

 

Why bother posting, then? JetBlue, which I have ridden, and Virgin America, which I have not, do get the highest marks for comfort and service, but they have limited routing, which can be a significant consideration if you're going to be flying to a number of different places in the US. If you're going to be flying a lot in the US, it makes sense to try to stick to one airline, even if it means an extra connection. Getting into even the lowest tier will get you waived for baggage fees, and will also speed up the check-in and boarding processes. I fly with American, which is the largest airline in the country. Their hubs are LAX, Phoenix, Dallas, Chicago, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Miami, DCA in our capital, and JFK in NYC. United's hubs are SFO, Denver, Chicago, JFK, and Dulles Airport in Washington DC (yucky compared to DCA). I have had problems with United Service and award redemption in the past, even as a Gold member, so I made the switch even though I live near their SFO hub. Also, most of their hubs are more prone to weather delays than American's hubs. Delta's hubs are JFK, LAX, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, Detroit, Atlanta, Seattle, Boston, and Cincinnati--also many prone to weather delays. Their frequent flyer program is also rather nebulous. As others have mentioned, alliances are important: American has OneWorld, United has Star, and Delta SkyTeam. Of course, alliances have their limitations. I'm taking a cruise around New Zealand in January, and I looked into using Qantas, since it's a OneWorld member. If I wanted to code-share and get credit towards American elite status, I would have had to fly first to LAX, then to Brisbane, then to Auckland. On the return from Sydney, I would only have had to change at LAX. However, I would only have received credit for HALF of the miles flown, and I ended up paying $1500 LESS for better seats on Cathay Pacific (Premium Economy instead of standard economy on Qantas), with one airport change each way (flying SFO to Hong Kong to Auckland on the way over, and Sydney to Hong Kong to SFO on the way back). Although Cathay Pacific is OneWorld, I will not get any credit on American, although I will be able to use Cathay's Business lounges since I'm an Emerald (2nd tier) OneWorld elite member with American. So my advice is to pick an airline and stick with it if you'll be flying over 25,000 miles with them on an annual basis.

http://www.travelticket.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/cx-premium.jpg

 

Versus Qantas standard economy...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/5/5/1280550.jpg

[OneFinger]

I'm currently living in SAN. When flying to my SLC home my preference is Delta. When flying to my PDX home I use Alaska Airlines. Since Alaska and Delta are partners, all my miles are accumulated on my Delta account.

[nate_sf]

It's slightly off topic, but is anybody familiar with an airline in the Star Alliance program that has an option to keep your air miles from expiring, even if you're not flying any of the partners for a while? If so I'll be very happy to hear.

 

It's pretty absurd, but I've kept my United miles from expiring by subscribing to magazines that they offer in exchange for keeping miles current. "Your miles are about to expire!" exclaims the letter in the mail, and the next thing you know I'm subscribing to The Economist for another year. But it's been worthwhile as I've been able to carry some balances along and eventually use most of them up, and I like reading the magazine.

[mike carey]

Thanks so much for all this helpful advice. Some great ideas here. Obviously something beyond what I said at the outset is that I'd prefer to be able to use any miles I have for flights in Australia as well as the US. Sorry about the length of this post!

Can you sail and take the train?

Sailing might be a little expensive but it would be a holiday in its own right! I'll certainly take the train when I can, I far prefer it to flying.

If you stick with American, try to use Alaska Air as much as possible (I would use Alaska Air but enter my American Airlines Frequent Flyer Number).

I will stick with AA/QF for the most part, but as others have commented, having a back up is useful and what that should be is one of my reasons for posting here. I've been checking trans-Pacific fares on-line and often Delta and Air NZ are cheaper than QF and sometimes significantly so. I've heard good reports on Alaska Airlines and QF code shares with them from LAX to some other cities, but no status credits unless it's a QF flight number and for a short flight, credits are more significant than the miles.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your time in the USA. In spite of our flaws and crazy politics, this is still a wonderful county to visit and most who live here are very friendly and enjoy meeting folks from other countries.

Thanks Dan, I have always enjoyed my time in the US.

Coming from Australia I'd imagine that sticking with Qantas/AA makes sense.

It does make sense, but I'm trying to work out which way to go when I can't sensibly use them (cost/schedules). I've signed up for Virgin Australia, which covers Delta, Virgin America and some Star Alliance carriers (Air NZ and Singapore but not UA or Air Canada).

However, I would only have received credit for HALF of the miles flown, and I ended up paying $1500 LESS for better seats on Cathay Pacific (Premium Economy instead of standard economy on Qantas), with one airport change each was (flying SFO to Hong Kong to Auckland on the way over, and Sydney to Hong Kong to SFO on the way back). Although Cathay Pacific is OneWorld, I will not get any credit on American, although I will be able to use Cathay's Business lounges since I'm an Emerald (2nd tier) OneWorld elite member with American. So my advice is to pick an airline and stick with it if you'll be flying over 25,000 miles with them on an annual basis.

That's a nasty trick with reduced or no miles on some tickets, but you can't argue with a $1500 cheaper fare, especially on a good airline like CX. I'm not so worried about multi-leg flights, in fact I preferred travelling from LAX to DC via somehere in the middle to arrive in Washington National rather than Dulles! I agree that sticking with an airline group for higher status is a good idea. I've become accustomed to having lounge access and it'll be nice to build up to having that again.

(I know, there are credit cards that prevent your air miles from expiring. (But I think I'll stick to the credit cards I have now. Too many credit cards doesn't help with my credit score either.) ... Resuming, if my air miles don't expire in any of these three programs, I find myself flexible in choosing the airline for my next flight.

I already have too many credit cards and I'm in the process of shedding them! I do have one linked to QF and using that keeps my miles alive (any points from any source once every 18 months does that). My AA account predates their move to expiring miles. As I've commented above I'm looking at covering the trips I want to make with the fewest air miles programs possible, and trying to make sure that I don't have too many unusable balances! Both our airlines' programs come with a Visa or Mastercard cash card (loadable in about 10 currencies) that pay miles into your balance.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

Check out www.australianfrequentflyers.com.au. Www.flyertalk.com. Www.onemileatatime.com

[mike carey]

Check out www.australianfrequentflyers.com.au. Www.flyertalk.com. Www.onemileatatime.com

Thanks!!

[BgMstr4u]

In some markets there are choices of airports as well as of airlines. On a recent flight to New York -- I was staying in the mid-Hudson region -- I ended up flying to Hartford instead of Newark or LaGuardia. What a difference! Smaller, cleaner, faster baggage service, people were more polite. And the cost was comparable. In many places there's only one, but in some metropolitan areas there's one giant airport and a number of regional ones surrounding it. Depending on where you want to end up, sometimes these make sense. Certainly for the ease and comfort factor they can.

[mike carey]

Thanks BgMstr4u, even looking at flights into Los Angeles from Australia, I had seen flights to other LA area airports via SFO, some of which were competitive with direct flights to LAX. It's always worth looking at. As I had said before, I am keenly aware of the advantages of flying to DCA rather than Dulles (and even BWI).

[+ Charlie]

Have you had any experience with ANZ? We're flying them for the first time next month, from LAX to London.