It's getting in my head

[Seymour Butts]

Hi! So I'm quite inexperienced in this whole escorting business. I only hired twice before without any problems. But let me describe what's been happening to me lately because it's really getting to my head. I don't want to use names because I don't know if it's me or what and I don't want to impugn anyone's good name. Just know that both these guys are well reviewed with 10+ good reviews.

 

I was at MAL in January when I saw someone whose ad I recognized on Rentboy (and he was WAY better looking in person). I ask if he's got any availability and he said he did on Sunday. A little later I get to my room and write to him just to make sure I got the right guy, he writes back a few minutes later, says yes, asks what I'm looking for. I say I like to get pissed on and fucked (his ad says he does watersports and anal so that seems ok). No response. On Sunday I text him and ask if he got my message, he says (kind of rudely) that he's taking the day off.

 

Ok, I think, he's only human, and better to admit you're exhausted than take a client's money and deliver a subpar experience. Right? So life goes on.

 

Now I'm going to be traveling in a couple weeks so I look around to see what entertainment is available. I find a well reviewed one that I like, his ad says he prefers advanced appointments, so I write to him. I ask if he'll be in town that week, he responds a couple hours later yes he will, what time specifically and what am I looking for? A few days later I have a better idea of my schedule, so I give him a time and ask to be pissed on and fucked (again, he advertises watersports and anal). No response. I wait a few days, write again to ask if he got my message, no response.

 

This is really getting to my head!! Those of you with more experience in this field, how often do escorts decline your business? I've been writing very politely, and these were both well reviewed guys, I don't know what I could be doing wrong! Does anyone else find similar experiences? Do escorts often turn you down as a client?

[AdamSmith]

First, don't take it personally. Second, my experience has been that a fair number of escorts check 'water sports' on the profile when they don't really mean it. Especially not on a first visit with a new client. You may have better luck with some -- not all -- if you get to know each other in a first session, then bring up the subject when contacting them for a repeat.

 

You could also look through the reviews here for escorts who get into ws enthusiastically (don't recall which ones, but memory seems to be that there are several).

 

You may also get lucky with this post and get responses here from escorts ready and willing!

[BaronArtz]

Hi, welcome to this board. Let me say this: don't let it get into your head.

 

First, I have never been turned down as a client by an escort. What does happen sometimes is that an initial email is not responded to. I chalk it up to the escort not having received the email (happens on Rentboy), being too busy, or just not interested. I don't take it personal.

 

Second, an escort writing 'water sports', 'kissing', 'domination scenes' or whatever in his ad does not guarantee that you as a client will actually have that experience. As AdamSmith said above, not likely with a new client during a first visit. People are not machines. The personal 'vibe' you establish with an escort will determine what sort of experience you will get. Also, I would avoid writing about specific sex acts in email correspondence. It is, in my opinion, much better to say 'I read your ad and your reviews. I think we are very compatible in terms of our interests' than to say 'I want to be peed on and then fucked for $250/hour'. Sometimes it is better to be a bit vague and leave things to the imagination. An escort may think you work in law enforcement if you specifically discuss sex for money verbally and in email correspondence and refuse to see you on that basis alone.

 

I hope this is helpful to you. I wish you the best of luck finding an escort who is a good match for you!

[Seymour Butts]

Good advice from you both, thank you very much!

 

My first experience was with Mick from NY, who was very, very accommodating in the watersports department. I suppose I got spoiled with him!

 

And that makes sense about keeping things a bit vague. I have to ask, though: what's a good response when an escort asks what you're looking for? I remember reading somewhere that it's good to be detailed and specific so he can know how to tailor the experience to you; was that bad advice? How do you describe what you like without setting off red flags in the escort's mind?

[Guest Starbuck]

1. Personally, I've never (yet) had an escort not respond to an inquiry (not even when I make initial contact via email to a guy who prefers a phone call). Nor have I (yet) been turned down for an appointment. Not having had either experience, I'm surprised by how often they are reported. If one or the other happened to me, I wouldn't let it get to me; you know the old expression about other fish in the sea.

 

2. It never occurred to me that escorts check "watersports" on their list of interests, but don't mean it. (On the other hand, I always kind of hope that those who check "scat" don't mean it. Who knows.

 

3. I'm perplexed (and a little amused) by the notion that an escort who IS in to watersports wouldn't be willing to piss on you on the "first date." Really? Why? (Remember that old episode of "Friends" when Monica was bitten by the jellyfish and, knowing that urine relieves the sting, asked Joey to pee on her? The other friends were grossed-out when they heard about it, but Joey, in defense of himself, said, "Hey! Monica needed somebody to pee on her leg, and I stepped up!" ... You could do worse than having Joey Tribbiani around when you want to get pissed on.)

 

4. I don't know if you're inclined to do this, but if you let us know where you are, you'll probably get some good suggestions for the piss-n-fuck experience.

 

5. Finally, if by "Mick in NY," you mean Mickey/Carpathio, you will rarely encounter a better guy. I'm not talking specifically about watersports or fucking when I say that; I mean that he is a really delightful man ... sweet, interesting, sexy and a whole helluva lot of fun to have sex with.

[Amoco]

One of the positive things about this board is that there is no shortage of opinions. BaronArtz has been an important contributor for much longer than I have, but let me try to offer another perspective.

 

First of all, if your previous experience was with Mickey (Carpathio) you've already been spoiled. Mick flies under the radar and is, without question, one of the best. He's responsive to contact, easy to schedule, completely uninhibited, creative sexually, and simply a great guy. The problem is that not all of the working guys are like that, and you have to find out what you're willing to tolerate when approaching plans.

 

I agree with part of what Baron has said, specifically, that when using emails for first contacts, especially thru the hook-up sites, results can be minimal. When possible, I try to send a text saying that "I saw their ad and am interested in discussing a date in the near future. Would you mind providing an email address so I can send you a note that addresses my interests to see if we're compatible". If they respond and provide an address, I'll email and send a text again to make sure it doesn't get missed or go to spam. If they don't respond, I move on without comment and note it in my head. I don't take it personally because absolutely nothing happened that has anything to do with me. On occasions when a few days later the escort "realizes" he didn't respond and subsequently contacts me, I almost never reconsider as unlike BaronArtz, I view these guys as much more capable than he does, and as such, am more comfortable holding them accountable. Of course people make mistakes, but these are lucrative mini-businesses and deserve to be treated professionally. In my experience, with few exceptions, someone who doesn't respond after initial contact, is going to be unreliable. Others might disagree and you should figure out what makes sense to you.

 

But here's the larger issue...Baron's point about what happens in the session is not guaranteed by virtue of what the escort's ad says, is not at all what you were asking about. If I'm understanding your original post, you didn't even get to that stage because these guys didn't respond, right? If that is true, then consider what I suggested above, but also, use the guys on the Forum for direction. I can tell you that if you liked Mickey and are just looking for variety at this point, there are a whole bunch of us that would be more than happy to make direct referrals to guys we know well and have had extraordinary experiences with. Feel free to send a PM to me or others who express an interest in connecting you. Your chances of having a positive interaction and developing a support network will go up exponentially.

[Seymour Butts]

Hey guys,

 

This is a lot more support than I thought I'd be getting, you guys are great!

 

It wasn't Mickey, I'm afraid, it was Mick Fitz, who is now retired. In fact, his Review #60 is me! I'd love to see him again, but, well, retired.

 

I looked at Mickey and he sounds very interesting, but I have a third criterion: any escort I hire has to be at least 5'10. That's just because I'm 6'4 and trying to hook up with anyone more than six inches shorter than me gets a bit awkward/comical.

 

If anybody has any ideas or suggestions, I'm going to be in NYC. I'll be staying with my sister, though, so in calls probably won't work. She's open-minded, but probably not THAT open minded!

[down_to_business]

All I can think to do differently is be a little more general in your communications until either asked for specifics or some degree of dialogue has already been established. Others will disagree on this, but based on trial and error, I have found this to be the general right thing to do over decades of hiring.

[+ azdr0710]

All I can think to do differently is be a little more general in your communications until either asked for specifics or some degree of dialogue has already been established. Others will disagree on this, but based on trial and error, I have found this to be the general right thing to do over decades of hiring.

 

 

I like this idea.....but did you do the same blunt talk anyway with your successful earlier hires?....if so, yeah, I know it can be frustrating how each responds.....as suggested earlier, always keep sex talk well away from money talk.....in the first communication, be very polite, give a few stats about yourself, ask if they are available at (xxx) time for (xxx) hours, and ask if they have questions for you.....then, if a positive reply arrives, get specific in a professional/intelligent way.....you may even not want to mention money at all as they probably will eventually offer the rate for the time amount you already told them you'd like

[Amoco]

I can not say enough about Mickey, but if his height doesn't work for you, one of his closest friends is Mike Cruise who is over 6', a great guy and wonderful partner in bed. I can't speak for him but my experience with him would suggest that pissing and fucking are among his specialties, and he's incredibly easy to book and work with.

[BaronArtz]

Hi Seymour, you asked "I have to ask, though: what's a good response when an escort asks what you're looking for? I remember reading somewhere that it's good to be detailed and specific so he can know how to tailor the experience to you; was that bad advice? How do you describe what you like without setting off red flags in the escort's mind?"

 

That's a very good question. Unlike some, I don't subscribe to the theory that when an escort lists certain activities in his ad, you are guaranteed to get them and that the escort should be held 'accountable' to perform them. What an awful word - 'accountable', in the context of personal intimacy. My view is that most escorts put up ads with the purpose of showing up when a potential client does a screening. That is why you will find countless escort ads in which all possible fetishes and kinks are checked off. The escort may not have any intention of performing these acts with most, any, some nor even all of his prospective clients. The ad is a way to start a conversation.

 

Now, about your question about what to do when an escort asks what you are looking for. It is a fair question, they want to know what they could potentially get into. The fact that they ask you that question shows that at least you have passed their first screen. In my opinion, and this by no means absolute, I would keep it a bit vague. You could say something like 'I really liked what you wrote in your ad about X' (X can be anything - topping, bottoming, spanking, water sports ... you name if). I am hoping we could explore something like that'. That way, there are no red flags, you are simply referring to his ad and inviting him to elaborate a bit on it. See how he responds and take it from there.

 

Let me give you an example. On adam4adam I found a guy, a well known porn actor, who listed fisting, as a bottom, in his profile. When I said that I had not fisted a guy before but would do it if he was into it, he said: sorry no, never with someone I never met/had sex with. After that, maybe. I think that makes sense. The ad showed a promise, a possibility, but not a guarantee.

[rvwnsd]

Hey Seymour, here's an additional idea. When writing your email, say something to the effect of "I noticed watersports listed as one of your interests. It is one of mine, too. Love to get pissed on by a hot guy. Is this something you would consider with a first-time client?" This serves a couple of purposes. 1) it calls out an interest he specified in his ad; 2) it signals you are interested in that activity, too; and 3) it opens up a dialogue about his comfort zone as it relates to watersports.

[+ sync]

Seymour,

Keep trying, he's out there somewhere. If I had his contact information, I would hook you up with my old boss. I was pissed on and fucked everyday, for free, without ever asking.

[bobchitown]

Don't worry about the height. Mickey is the bomb. Oozes sex.

[Seymour Butts]

You guys are really great with your advice, thanks! I naïvely assumed that guys who list watersports find it as easy as I do; I didn't realize there was a delicate dance of suggestion and innuendo.

 

On a side note, why would someone list an activity as an interest when it isn't something they're willing to do? Don't they realize that sooner or later they'll run into a perv like me? If they won't even do the courtesy of telling me that they won't do watersports on the first date and just don't respond at all, doesn't that mean less business?

 

I'm just kind of annoyed, the way false advertising annoys most clients I guess.

 

But! Moving past that, you've all given me some great ideas for what to do in my upcoming weekend, thanks very, very much, for REAL.

[Decatur Guy]

You've gotten some great advice. Now my advice to escorts: Pay the fuck attention when you're filling out an ad to attract clients. Pay attention to your chatter/intro. Pay attention to what you're checking off in interests. Make sure they don't contradict each other. Don't tell me you're a total top in the introduction and then check off versatile in the positions. You can't be both.

 

And pay attention to your prices: $1000 an hour and $250 for an overnight? Really?

 

The more I do this, the more I only contact escorts who have put some thought into their ads. You can tell the ones who were being half-assed and sloppy in coming up with the ad. I assume I'll get the same treatment in person.

[+ Gar1eth]

 

On a side note, why would someone list an activity as an interest when it isn't something they're willing to do? Don't they realize that sooner or later they'll run into a perv like me? If they won't even do the courtesy of telling me that they won't do watersports on the first date and just don't respond at all, doesn't that mean less business?

 

I'm just kind of annoyed, the way false advertising annoys most clients I guess.

 

 

Unfortunately, some guys are just scammers. Years ago there was this tall muscular surfer guy-ex bodybuilder in the Ft Lauderdale area- I haven't seen him advertise for years. I hired him for a weekend. I don't think he had any reviews. Well he had if not all then just about all options checked/listed on the Primary Interest Section of his Rentboy ad. Now I'm really vanilla. Kissing, body contact, oral, and (me) topping are pretty much all I get into. And I don't usually hire guys who identify as straight. Well we hadn't even gotten out from the airport after I picked him up that I find out he likes women better than men. And when we get back to the hotel I find he doesn't really like to kiss even though it had been listed on his ad and I probably had discussed it with him ahead of time. I asked him why he had kissing listed. He said someone had told him he should check all the options to get more clients. I don't know if I have to tell you or not- but it wasn't the greatest weekend I had ever spent with an escort.

 

Gman

[sincitymix]

Unfortunately, some guys are just scammers. Years ago there was this tall muscular surfer guy-ex bodybuilder in the Ft Lauderdale area- I haven't seen him advertise for years. I hired him for a weekend. I don't think he had any reviews. Well he had if not all then just about all options checked/listed on the Primary Interest Section of his Rentboy ad. Now I'm really vanilla. Kissing, body contact, oral, and (me) topping are pretty much all I get into. And I don't usually hire guys who identify as straight. Well we hadn't even gotten out from the airport after I picked him up that I find out he likes women better than men. And when we get back to the hotel I find he doesn't really like to kiss even though it had been listed on his ad and I probably had discussed it with him ahead of time. I asked him why he had kissing listed. He said someone had told him he should check all the options to get more clients. I don't know if I have to tell you or not- but it wasn't the greatest weekend I had ever spent with an escort.

 

Gman

 

I just had this image flash in my mind of your car door opening while going 100mph , and the escort comes tumbling out of the car via a swift kick on his arse.

[JakeNYC]

From the perspective of an escort, I am going to tell you some things that maybe you do not want to hear. First, it gets to our heads more. Both heads. Ask my therapist. Being an escort is very psychologically taxing. In fact, I would say the number one job qualification is psychological stamina combined with an innate emotional intelligence. I am the kind of person that will not respond sometimes, and on occasion, I will cancel a few hours in advance. Why? Because everyone has a psychological threshold and you have to know when to say enough is enough. In defense of the escort above, I think he may have picked up on something in the delivery of the request rather than the actual request itself. As most of us know, how you say something is just as important as what you say. Many escorts are very good at picking up on minor hints in a text or phone call that the experience could potentially be an unpleasant one, or even dangerous. Also they are usually entrepreneurial-minded so they really don't like feeling like being ordered around, even if they are submissive with a client. Sometimes you can put up with being ordered around, but after several people in a row treat you like dirt, it's easy to find yourself treating others the same way you were treated.

 

Without seeing the correspondence, it would be hard to say, but I would venture to say that the way something was said in the initial correspondence that may have led the escorts' cancellations. Next time, maybe say things a little more nicely (don't even use the f word) and you can get more of what you want. Escorts will rarely respond rudely, if clients initially contact them in kind. And if they do, run the other way! Likewise, escorts will rarely respond kindly, if clients contact them rudely. So a word to the wise, just ask politely like your mother told you (even when hiring escorts) and you will get more of what you want!

 

As an aside, in the age of text messages and emails it is also easy for things to be misconstrued. So maybe add some emoticons. :D:D!!

 

-Jake of NYC

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Seymour,

 

Just a couple things that came to mind while reading this thread.

 

I naïvely assumed that guys who list watersports find it as easy as I do;

 

Kissing is easy, making love is easy, pissing is easy. Just because an activity is easy and doable doesn't mean that I will feel comfortable or willing to do it with everyone. Not even if I am charging for my time to be with them. As with everything in the realm of intimacy, the connection has to be in place, a respectful attitude has to be in place, hygiene has to be in place. We have to be compatible. There are many elements that have to be lined up for intimacy to happen. Personally, my ad is a well thought out way to let you know who I am, what turns me on and what things I enjoy. It is NOT a shopping list. It is NOT a catalogue of products that you can put in your cart.

 

I don't charge for fucking, I charge for my time, but I really enjoy fucking. I am a friendly, fun, horny man and if we are together, if we are ready, if we like the same, chances are that fucking will take place. It's awesome. But it's not something that you are buying from me. Ever. I fuck for free, and because of that I fuck under my own rules.

 

If you read my reviews you will find out that the right conditions happen way too often and I fuck a lot. Exactly the same applies to every other activity. This doesn't mean, however that because I say in my ad that I like fucking, you will be fucked regardless.

 

I didn't realize there was a delicate dance of suggestion and innuendo.

 

I completely disagree with that. We are all adults. There is absolutely no reason to beat around the bushes. As long as you never make the mistake of mentioning sex for money, you should, you MUST let the escort know what is it that you are looking for. Especially if this is pissing. Fewer escorts will respond to you, but that just means that you avoided meeting with men who would not give you what you want.... That is a good thing. Be direct, but be polite. And also know that your tone and style will help your escort determine if you two are a good match.

 

I will give you an example. I love watersports. I think it is one of the most intimate things one can share with a partner. I have a few clients who see me mainly because of this, but there have been a few WS sessions that I have declined. I will give you a variety of examples of how people go about it. I think it would be easy to imagine which ones I respond positively to.

 

"Hey, love having a hot session with a masculine man and get really turned on by being pissed on by him. It is one of my biggest fantasies. Please let me know if you are into that, Thank you."

 

"WS slave needin' roughing up. Use me as your toilet. The dirtier the better. No limits. Fill her up with your dirty piss."

 

"I will want you to piss on me. This is non negotiable. No piss, no moolah."

 

"YOU an endless hose of warm golden water. Me, a bottomless, insatiable hole for you to satisfy. I am very freaky."

 

While I celebrate everybody's right to be, desire and see their sexuality and whatever way they do, I will only want to meet with men that are compatible in they way I look at intimacy and sex. I am not saying edit your style, I am saying that it is possible your style is letting escorts know that they are not compatible with you. If this is the case, then the pool of men that can satisfy you is relatively small, regardless, you should stick to those few men, or else you will be chronically displeased.

 

On a side note, why would someone list an activity as an interest when it isn't something they're willing to do? If they won't even do the courtesy of telling me that they won't do watersports on the first date and just don't respond at all, doesn't that mean less business?

 

I'm just kind of annoyed, the way false advertising annoys most clients I guess.

 

My guess is that all this is clearly being communicated in your emails to the prospective escorts. If I got an email that showed this kind of edge, this impatience, I would without any more questions decline the session. It is possible there will be some men who respond well to the "You advertise this, so you better deliver" approach, but most escorts will have no problem passing on a session that is already starting in an uncomfortable way.

 

Also... it might just be me, but when a client writes something like "Don't they realize that sooner or later they'll run into a perv like me?" I really listen to their own opinion of themselves and believe they are telling the truth. I have no doubt you are a wonderful guy filled with all sorts of ineffable qualities but if a self-proclaimed perv wants to be intimate with me I will have to kindly decline.

 

If you are a perv, then let all your freak perv bells ring into the wind and trust that will attract all those pervy freaky escorts who will see sex the same way you do. Believe me, there are MANY escorts who have been praying god for clients like these. Just don't be offended if "intimacy escorts" give you a pass.

 

If you are not a perv but you are used to describe yourself like one out of a little discomfort with your own fetishes, I sincerely recommend you to rethink the use of that word and change it to something like "A man in the process of exploring sexually and broadening my limits". Then write a thoughtful enquiry sharing with the prospective escorts your turn ons and desires, with the full understanding that you are not engaging a sex machine, but a human being that wants to spend time with you. My guess is that more escorts might feel comfortable enough to share their warm, sweet, beautiful piss with you.

 

Please forgive me if I made any wrong assumptions. I am just going by the little you wrote and how you responded to the suggestions.

 

I sincerely hope you will soon find a few incredibly hot escorts that will happily match your style and will provide you with fulfilling, exciting, fun, pissed filled dream sessions.

[Seymour Butts]

WOW. I can't believe some of the messages you get are that rude! *opens Scruff* Oh wait yes I can.

 

I'm going to throw caution to the wind ave copy/paste what I wrote, if nothing else just to prove I'm not THAT much of an asshole. Well, one very important part of me is, but that's a different topic. After everybody's helpful advice I can see some of the mistakes I made, and seem to have been successful in setting something up with someone I like better.

 

Dear (such and such),

 

Thank you for your reply. I'm not in New York City that often, and I'm hoping spending some time with you can make this trip extra special.

 

I see in your ad that you like watersports. I am an avid urophile myself. After I get there and we get to know each other a bit, please know that I like piss in my mouth, on my body, in my hair, everywhere. I love to smell like an unwashed urinal with the taste lingering on my tongue.

 

I also like to get fucked hard. I like it when it hurts, even if I may not like it at the time. Some of the best fucks I've had have been those that a part of me wanted to end. If I say Stop or No, please stop, but otherwise please let nothing stop you from using my ass to get your rocks off.

 

I'm hoping these are requests you can accommodate. It's a thought that excites me, especially when I masturbate. Please let me know your thoughts. Until then,

 

All the best,

(My actual name)

 

That wasn't horrible, was it? Too forward in the third paragraph, I see that now, but certainly better than what Juan quoted above, right?

 

I don't want to sound like I don't respect, and in fact admire, escorts for what they put themselves through. I can't fathom the psychological toll it must take. I don't want to sound like I disrespect the profession, just that I disrespect false advertising. It hurts to be rejected, especially by someone who seems to have changed his mind when you can't see why.

[BaronArtz]

 

Thank you for your reply. I'm not in New York City that often, and I'm hoping spending some time with you can make this trip extra special.

 

 

When I read this, my immediate reaction is: this guy does not live here and does not have immediate plans to visit. Why would I waste my time? That, combined with the graphic language of the rest of the email creates the impression that you are just interested in pursuing a kinky email conversation with no immediate plans to hire. Then, you write in the last paragraph, I think, that the 'thought makes you masturbate'. Which is another hint that you may not be all that interested in hiring, you are just using his profile and his correspondence to get your rocks off. Which is fine. But that is not how he gets paid.

 

For starters, if you had said something like, I am planning on being in New York on 0X/YY/15 and hope you are available then, it might have been better received. I wish you the best of luck. Surely, there are a few guys out there who will be happy to accommodate your desires.

[Seymour Butts]

Yeah, that was actually my first email, it was to the effect of I'll be in NYC on such-and-such a day, are you available at such-and-such a time? He said yes, and what am I looking for, and what I quoted above was my response to that email. So, my being in town was already established.

[BaronArtz]

Yeah, that was actually my first email, it was to the effect of I'll be in NYC on such-and-such a day, are you available at such-and-such a time? He said yes, and what am I looking for, and what I quoted above was my response to that email. So, my being in town was already established.

 

That's good to know, and it DID get you a response. At least a preliminary one.

[Amoco]

I must be missing something here...Wasn't the issue that neither of the escorts that you contacted returned your first contact emails?

 

It seems to me that many of the responses are (AGAIN!) focusing on whether the ever-oppressed escort is obliged to do things with clients that they advertise in their ads. If you're interested in that debate, there are numerous threads that will fill your day. Now that concept has been stretched to whether the ever-oppressed escort should even respond to questions about availability when a client asks specific questions related to items listed in an escort's ad.

 

Personally, I found your note respectful and appropriate - especially given the fact that the escorts you contacted advertised those activities. You need to hear that non-responsiveness on the part of escorts is a common and ongoing issue that frequently has little to do with the client. Is it possible that you could offend the escort in your contact? Of course, but let's just keep our wits about us - these are professional sex workers who are not easily offended. They are, however, frequently over booked, and depending on the guy, not necessarily responsible when it comes to returning calls or texts. Some are efficient, some are slow and some never respond.

 

In the overall scheme of things, there is much greater likelihood that the escort's lack of response was an act of irresponsibility and poor business practices, as opposed to one of being offended by your requests. And unfortunately, that's the deal with a lot of these guys. But not all of them. Use the Board to find the good ones and get thick enough skin to walk away from the others.