Havana, Cuba Within a Few Days

[mike carey]

If a two-tiered health care system is a concern of yours, you must be up in arms about the for-profit health care system that completely dominates in the USA.

Him? Not so much. Freedom™.

[RealAvalon]

Him? Not so much. Freedom™.

But if he wasn't concerned/critical about the extremely tiered health care system in the USA, that would make him a hypocrite given his stated concern on his perception of the Cuban health care system?

Edited June 14, 2019 by RealAvalon

[mike carey]

If he wasn't concerned/critical about the extremely tiered system in the USA, that would make him a hypocrite for his comments about his perception of the Cuban health care system?

You may well say that, I couldn't possibly comment.

[+ José Soplanucas]

At even the lowest "tier" of American health care, the doctors all have their own stethoscopes and can dispense basic meds like aspirin & penicillin. Cuban doctors, not so much.

 

Anti communist bull shit. The fact is that millions of Americans do not have access to any doctors, do not have money to eat every day, are homeless, are killed in massive shootings or by street crime, do not have access to a decent education, cannot traveled because do not have any money, cannot exercise their right and freedoms because they do not k ow they have them, are not represented in the political system, and the list goes on and on and on.

[+ tassojunior]

At even the lowest "tier" of American health care, the doctors all have their own stethoscopes and can dispense basic meds like aspirin & penicillin. Cuban doctors, not so much.

 

I'm pretty sure Cuban health care is one of the best, at least in the Americas. And they certainly have a more healthy population from their healthcare.

[RealAvalon]

You may well say that, I couldn't possibly comment.

Oh. I'm sure you could. But I've heard that discretion is the better part of valor.

[+ WilliamM]

I'm pretty sure Cuban health care is one of the best, at least in the Americas. And they certainly have a more healthy population from their healthcare.

 

Why are so sure about one of the best, at least in the Americans? I can not remember the few I know who have been to Cuba saying anything like that.

[+ tassojunior]

Why are so sure about one of the best, at least in the Americans? I can not remember the few I know who have been to Cuba saying anything like that.

WM -Cuban healthcare and medical schools are the standard by which many countries, especially Latin ones, try to copy. Without corporations to feed and doctors not expecting million dollar a year incomes, Cuba has comparatively good healthcare and it's universal. Cuba has more doctors per capita than the US, better infant mortality, etc.

 

[+ WilliamM]

WM -Cuban healthcare and medical schools are the standard by which many countries, especially Latin ones, try to copy. Without corporations to feed and doctors not expecting million dollar a year incomes, Cuba has comparatively good healthcare and it's universal. Cuba has more doctors per capita than the US, better infant mortality, etc.

 

 

What about the current state of hospitals and clinics? Medical supplies and wait for appointments? Are doctors and nurses free to leave Cuba, and establish a life elsewhere!

[RealAvalon]

What about the current state of hospitals and clinics? Medical supplies and wait for appointments? Are doctors and nurses free to leave Cuba, and establish a life elsewhere!

Several people have already spoken on here about the higher (in some cases much higher) population level health outcomes in Cuba versus the USA. The general level of health in Cuba is better than the USA - higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, lower obesity rates etc. Given the huge inequalities within USA health care this can not be a surprise to anyone. And a comparison between Cuba and its neighbour Puerto Rico is apples and oranges. Can we move on from this now?

In terms of medical supplies, and high tech medicine. The biggest problem with these is the USA government's trade embargo against the island, and the pressure the USA puts on other countries to prevent trade relations and supplies. If you're concerned about medical supplies write a letter to your Congressperson and Senators to repeal the Helms-Burton Act (1996). Cruel and stupid legislation.

In terms of being able to leave the Island, I expect that the government would want people that left, to pay market rates for the tuition free education they received to become nurses and doctors. And that seems reasonable to me.

[+ WilliamM]

Several people have already spoken on here about the higher (in some cases much higher) population level health outcomes in Cuba versus the USA. The general level of health in Cuba is better than the USA - higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, lower obesity rates etc. Given the huge inequalities within USA health care this can not be a surprise to anyone. And a comparison between Cuba and its neighbour Puerto Rico is apples and oranges. Can we move on from this now?

In terms of medical supplies, and high tech medicine. The biggest problem with these is the USA government's trade embargo against the island, and the pressure the USA puts on other countries to prevent trade relations and supplies. If you're concerned about medical supplies write a letter to your Congressperson and Senators to repeal the Helms-Burton Act (1996). Cruel and stupid legislation.

In terms of being able to leave the Island, I expect that the government would want people that left, to pay market rates for the tuition free education they received to become nurses and doctors. And that seems reasonable to me.

 

If people might have to pay back the state for tuition and other expenses, why are you endorsing Cuba's medical system?

 

Yes, the medical care in the United States is terrible, especially for the poor. But, praising Cuba is not necessarily the answer.

[RealAvalon]

If people might have to pay back the state for tuition and other expenses, why are you endorsing Cuba's medical system?

 

Yes, the medical care in the United States is terrible, especially for the poor. But, praising Cuba is not necessarily the answer.

Are you looking for something to complain about and criticize? I am stating facts about health outcomes from the Cuba health care system. They are, generally, better than the USA. Moving on.

If you are genuinely concerned about the supply of medicines in Cuba - which is more of a problem because of the USA government trade embargo than it is with the Cuba government - do something about it. Write your Congressperson and get the Helms-Burton Act repealed. It's a stupid and cruel law.

And what does having to pay back something, that someone else paid for, got to do with any endorsement of anything? Do you believe in basic fairness? If I pay for you to learn something, and then you move somewhere else to use it, how does that help me? Reimbursement would just be ... basic fairness.

[+ WilliamM]

Are you looking for something to complain about and criticize? I am stating facts about health outcomes from the Cuba health care system. They are, generally, better than the USA. Moving on.

If you are genuinely concerned about the supply of medicines in Cuba - which is more of a problem because of the USA government trade embargo than it is with the Cuba government - do something about it. Write your Congressperson and get the Helms-Burton Act repealed. It's a stupid and cruel law.

And what does having to pay back something, that someone else paid for, got to do with any endorsement of anything? Do you believe in basic fairness? If I pay for you to learn something, and then you move somewhere else to use it, how does that help me? Reimbursement would just be ... basic fairness.

 

I was in high school when Fidel Castro gained power in Cuba. So I know he was far better than the previous government. But, if Cuba's doctors have to reimburse the government when they leave, that is hardly the freedom expected in the days after his revolution was successful.

[RealAvalon]

I was in high school when Fidel Castro gained power in Cuba. So I know he was far better than the previous government. But, if Cuba's doctors have to reimburse the government when they leave, that is hardly the freedom expected in the days after his revolution was successful.

 

Do you believe in basic fairness or not? I pay you to do a job (get an education) and then you take off and starting doing the job for someone else. Reimbursement is the least that I should be expected in that situation, isn't it? It doesn't seem more complicated than quid pro quo. Honestly, it feels like you are looking for something to criticize. It's just Cuba. No big deal. Relax

Edited June 16, 2019 by RealAvalon

[+ WilliamM]

Do you believe in basic fairness or not? I pay you to do a job (get an education) and then you take off and starting doing the job for someone else. Reimbursement is the least that I should be expected in that situation, isn't it? It doesn't seem more complicated than quid pro quo. Honestly, it feels like you are looking for something to criticize. It's just Cuba. No big deal. Relax

 

How did gays and lesbians far under Castro? And please do not write: No big deal. You ignore that I followed Castro from the beginning.

Edited June 16, 2019 by WilliamM

[MscleLovr]

The Kirchner family used Cuban medicine not to testify

 

Thanks for posting this link @marylander1940 .

 

Having now read this report and others, it staggers me just how much the Kirchners looted. I know that corruption is epidemic in Argentina but politicians there seem to have no shame and no limit to their appetite for misappropriating public wealth.

[+ José Soplanucas]

How did gays and lesbians far under Castro? And please do not write: No big deal. You ignore that I followed Castro from the beginning.

 

How were gays and lesbians doing under capitalist democracies by he same time Fidel took over and the Cuban Revolution started?

 

The mistreatment of homosexuals under the Revolution was as scandalous as the mistreatment under other regimens praised to be democratic. Fidel has apologized and taken full responsibility for those mistakes. Meanwhile, here in the USA conversion therapies can be legally forced into homosexuals by their parents.

 

My intention when I point to the prejudices against Communism and the Cuban Revolution is not to argue that one system is essentially better than the other, or that Communism is perfect. Both regimens have their strengths and weaknesses, and I am confident that if we ever move to a superior political system, we will have to learn from both.

 

It is just tiring to be in 2019 still listening the same old one sided hypocritical anticommunist talking points.

Edited June 16, 2019 by latbear4blk

[RealAvalon]

How did gays and lesbians far under Castro? And please do not write: No big deal. You ignore that I followed Castro from the beginning.

You are deflecting from the question I asked you. Anyway … trying to stay on the topic of a tourist in Havana. I was speaking as a tourist about the medical system in Cuba. I had first hand experience, as a tourist, that wound up being admitted to a regular municipal hospital for something serious - and in reflection with total honesty - I'm glad I was in hospital there. It was great (well as great as a hospital stay can be).

Edited June 18, 2019 by RealAvalon

[RealAvalon]

How were gays and lesbians doing under capitalist democracies by he same time Fidel took over and the Cuban Revolution started?

 

The mistreatment of homosexuals under the Revolution was as scandalous as the mistreatment under other regimens praised to be democratic. Fidel has apologized and taken full responsibility for those mistakes. Meanwhile, here in the USA conversion therapies can be legally forced into homosexuals by their parents.

 

My intention when I point to the prejudices against Communism and the Cuban Revolution is not to argue that one system is essentially better than the other, or that Communism is perfect. Both regimens have their strengths and weaknesses, and I am confident that if we ever move to a superior political system, we will have to learn from both.

 

It is just tiring to be in 2019 still listening the same old one sided hypocritical anticommunist talking points.

Repeal the Helms-Burton Act, end the embargo and conditions on the island will improve immensely. If improving the material conditions of the citizens in Cuba is actually what the person on here asking about possible medicine shortages, is actually concerned about.

Edited June 18, 2019 by RealAvalon

[+ WilliamM]

@Real Avalon, we have only gone back and forth on political issues a few times.

 

I do not see much of a pattern of responses from either side. I have no idea what you seem to have such a significant complaint. We barely know each other. I am pals with @Kenny, perhaps that is the problem.

[RealAvalon]

@Real Avalon, we have only gone back and forth on political issues a few times.

 

I do not see much of a pattern of responses from either side. I have no idea what you seem to have such a significant complaint. We barely know each other. I am pals with @Kenny, perhaps that is the problem.

I described in detail to you, with an example. I don't care who you are pals with on here, I'm not in high school.

Edited June 19, 2019 by RealAvalon

[BSR]

Anti communist bull shit. The fact is that millions of Americans do not have access to any doctors, do not have money to eat every day, are homeless, are killed in massive shootings or by street crime, do not have access to a decent education, cannot traveled because do not have any money, cannot exercise their right and freedoms because they do not k ow they have them, are not represented in the political system, and the list goes on and on and on.

We all know how much you hate the US. Sheesh, give it a rest.

[+ WilliamM]

I described in detail to you, with an example. I don't care who you are pals with on here, I'm not in high school.

 

What is the purpose of this site's yearly event in Palm Springs? Yes, to meet escorts and to get acquainted with other forum members. I am not able to attend for medical reasons that I have never mentioned here until today.

[BSR]

WM -Cuban healthcare and medical schools are the standard by which many countries, especially Latin ones, try to copy. Without corporations to feed and doctors not expecting million dollar a year incomes, Cuba has comparatively good healthcare and it's universal. Cuba has more doctors per capita than the US, better infant mortality, etc.

 

Leftists trip all over themselves to push Communist Party propaganda on Cuban health care because they want the government to take over the health system here in the US. Margaret Thatcher noted that the reason Reagan was able to do so much more in turning back liberalism than she could was Britain's nationalized health care system.

 

If you look past the Castro agitprop, you'll see a very different picture of Cuban health care.

 

Here is an x-ray room for ordinary Cubans. Note the collapsing ceiling and the ancient equipment.

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ2.jpg

 

Here is where your x-rays are developed. You wonder if it even has reliable electricity.

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ1.jpg

 

The state-of-the-art emergency room

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ4.jpg

 

The visitors bathroom, note the lack of soap.

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ7.jpg

 

A quick Google search of "truth about Cuban health care" will provide an abundance of articles that quickly dispel the Communist myths that leftists bend over backward to perpetuate. I would link a number of those articles here, except that I know that not one leftist will bother to click open a single article. Leftists would much rather believe the Communist lies, because those lies serve their own selfish benefit.

[+ tassojunior]

Leftists trip all over themselves to push Communist Party propaganda on Cuban health care because they want the government to take over the health system here in the US. Margaret Thatcher noted that the reason Reagan was able to do so much more in turning back liberalism than she could was Britain's nationalized health care system.

 

If you look past the Castro agitprop, you'll see a very different picture of Cuban health care.

 

Here is an x-ray room for ordinary Cubans. Note the collapsing ceiling and the ancient equipment.

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ2.jpg

 

Here is where your x-rays are developed. You wonder if it even has reliable electricity.

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ1.jpg

 

The state-of-the-art emergency room

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ4.jpg

 

The visitors bathroom, note the lack of soap.

http://testing.therealcuba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HCQ7.jpg

 

A quick Google search of "truth about Cuban health care" will provide an abundance of articles that quickly dispel the Communist myths that leftists bend over backward to perpetuate. I would link a number of those articles here, except that I know that not one leftist will bother to click open a single article. Leftists would much rather believe the Communist lies, because those lies serve their own selfish benefit.

 

I call bullshit on those photos of abandoned rooms. The 3rd is obviously not an "emergency room" but an autopsy/embalming table room. Of course if you google "the truth about...." you're going to get fringe lunatics on any subject. Most people are not that gullible (I hope). Google "Cuban healthcare". Especially for the little money it costs, it's really fairly good. Certainly as good as our awful US healthcare.