Ferguson

[+ Gar1eth]

I've just seen a story- I don't know whether it is true or not- that says the officer who shot Brown has an orbital fracture. If Michael Brown punched the officer hard enough to give him an orbital fracture that changes the story significantly.

 

Gman

[+ deej]

I've just seen a story- I don't know whether it is true or not- that says the officer who shot Brown has an orbital fracture. If Michael Brown punched the officer hard enough to give him an orbital fracture that changes the story significantly.

 

I am sympathetic if the officer has an owwie. I really am. But that doesn't justify executing unarmed citizenry.

[adannyboy]

Not to play left vs right, but this pretty much sums up the fracture story.

 

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43751_Jim_Hofts_Unsourced_Claim_That_Officer_Darren_Wilson_Had_an_Orbital_Blowout_Fracture_of_the_Eye_Socket

[+ Gar1eth]

I am sympathetic if the officer has an owwie. I really am. But that doesn't justify executing unarmed citizenry.

 

Orbital fractures especially if it was a blow-out fracture take a lot of force.

 

Not to play left vs right, but this pretty much sums up the fracture story.

 

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43751_Jim_Hofts_Unsourced_Claim_That_Officer_Darren_Wilson_Had_an_Orbital_Blowout_Fracture_of_the_Eye_Socket

 

I definitely agree with you if the story is false. But if it's not- it's definitely something to consider.

 

Gman

[bigvalboy]

I've just seen a story- I don't know whether it is true or not- that says the officer who shot Brown has an orbital fracture. If Michael Brown punched the officer hard enough to give him an orbital fracture that changes the story significantly.

 

Gman

 

Let's assume for a moment that the story is correct, and that Wilson was hit by Michael Brown, though the autopsy revealed that Brown did not have any injuries that would indicate that he struggled with Wilson. Consider that officer Wilson had years of experience. He is professionally trained to handle situations like the one that he was involved in. Most officers carry with them, in addition to their standard issue gun, a secondary pistol that is hidden, a shot gun, taser, mace, police baton, handcuffs, police flashlight, a knife, and a police radio, where he could call for back up. He also was in police vehicle ( where he could retreat for protection). OK let's assume that Michael Brown hit him, so Wilson's response, with all his professional training, and years of experience, is not to use his baton, taser, mace, handcuffs, knife or retreat to his car to call for backup, but instead he pulls his weapon and shoots the kid six times, maybe more accord to the autopsy, and twice in the head.

 

Your going to have a hard time convincing me that he handled this the best way he could have. It's his job, it's what he was trained to do. True or not, there are witnesses that said that Michael Brown had his hands up, in an attempt to surrender. For sake of argument, let's assume the Brown hit Wilson, then decided that surrendering was the best option for him. It was officer Wilson who held all the cards. There are at least a half a dozen different things he could have done besides shooting his weapon. We don't know all the details yet, partly because the only other eyewitness on the scene was not interviewed. He spoke to the news media, but law enforcement declined to take his statement. Finally, days after the incident, he finally has appointments with the FBI, and local authorities, but only at the urging of the attorneys for the family of Michael Brown.

 

And lastly, there is this.....

 

http://6abc.com/news/pathologist-brown-may-have-had-his-hands-raised/267835/

[Lookin]

There are at least a half a dozen different things he could have done besides shooting his weapon.

 

 

Even with all the things still unknown, I think this statement will stand the test of time.

 

And, hopefully, it will be a fundamental part of future police training.

[+ WilliamM]

I had an orbital fracture and a cheek-bone fracture as the result of a bad fall three years ago. It's impossible to assess the extent of the orbital fracture in the seconds or minutes after it happens. Even after being taken to the emergency room and going through all the tests, x-rays, etc., it took a while. I only learned anything the next morning when the head doctor called me and said that an operation was not needed. He forecast that every other doctor would recommend an operation. He was right. I am fine, except for some minor lingering difficulty looking up.

 

But, you do not lose your sense of proportion at any time, and shooting someone many times should never have been an option.

[armadillo]

Two months(!) to present evidence to the Grand Jury? I smell a whitewash.

 

""St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert P. McCulloch said it could be the middle of October before his office has presented all of the evidence in the Michael Brown killing to a grand jury.

 

Two assistant prosecutors on McCulloch's staff will begin presenting evidence later today to the grand jury in secret, as is protocol. But McCulloch said not all of the evidence is ready to be presented, and he said the grand jury's term that expires in September will likely be extended just for this case.""

 

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/mcculloch-grand-jury-to-consider-ferguson-case-through-mid-october/article_a2893384-0bcf-51a9-b479-9c7e9496c6a1.html

[+ Axiom2001]

I am sympathetic if the officer has an owwie. I really am. But that doesn't justify executing unarmed citizenry.

 

 

 

Deej, I am with you 1000%!!!!!!!

[N13]

Why is nobody mentioning that looting and rioting are Wrong!!!! Those that are participating are, in my opinion, using the whole thing as an excuse to get some free merchandise. Not cool!!!

[+ deej]

Why is nobody mentioning that looting and rioting are Wrong!!!! Those that are participating are, in my opinion, using the whole thing as an excuse to get some free merchandise. Not cool!!!

 

It's not being discussed in this thread because it isn't the topic of this thread. I've actually heard it discussed quite a bit in news coverage.

[+ deej]

Instead, we haven't even seen the official incident report.

 

Well, now we know WHY we haven't seen the incident report. The officer (and only surviving participant) didn't file one.

Ferguson police did release AN incident report that is dated TEN DAYS after the incident and basically says "an incident happened".

 

I'm tempted to spend some time on the phone calling local police departments to ask whether filing an incident report on an officer-involved shooting fatality is optional. This seems like it would be a good thing to know about the police where you live.

[bostonman]

Well, now we know WHY we haven't seen the incident report. The officer (and only surviving participant) didn't file one.

Ferguson police did release AN incident report that is dated TEN DAYS after the incident and basically says "an incident happened".

 

I'm tempted to spend some time on the phone calling local police departments to ask whether filing an incident report on an officer-involved shooting fatality is optional. This seems like it would be a good thing to know about the police where you live.

 

Seems more like an indecent report instead of an incident report.

[bigvalboy]

Well, now we know WHY we haven't seen the incident report. The officer (and only surviving participant) didn't file one.

Ferguson police did release AN incident report that is dated TEN DAYS after the incident and basically says "an incident happened".

 

I'm tempted to spend some time on the phone calling local police departments to ask whether filing an incident report on an officer-involved shooting fatality is optional. This seems like it would be a good thing to know about the police where you live.

 

This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. My best friends brother was killed a number of years ago on the west coast by a cop. A neighbor called the police to complain about a possible break in next door. When the police arrived, the brother had gone out to the garage which was separate from the house, to get something from his car. The yard was dark, and he was in his underwear, no shoes or shirt. The cop thought he was the prowler, and emptied his revolver on the kid. At the trial, it was revealed that the cop had a history of violations involving arrests and one previous shooting. This was the second time he had done something like this. The verdict came back not guilty. Lives were forever changed that day. My friends father was never the same after that. He just checked out of life. This sort of thing deeply impacts everyone connected.

 

http://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/657544/453575456.0.jpg

[+ quoththeraven]

I have heard and seen so much about Ferguson on my Tumblr dash (and to a lesser extent, my Twitter feed). So sad. Anyone who doesn't think that whites are judged by a different standard and given more leeway than others, especially blacks (black men especially), who are considered by many to be violent thugs, is deliberately blind.

 

Anyone pulling the "innocent until proven guilty" crap on me will be reminded that by the same logic, they are treating Michael Brown as guilty until proven innocent. It's easy to pick on a dead teenager; he can't fight back. It's also telling that of all the people I follow on Tumblr, the one whose commentary on Ferguson has been the most pointed and angry is a white woman who is a Baltimore prosecutor.

 

Anyway, here's a heartwarming story of how Mary Engelbreit, a well-known white illustrator who lives in the St. Louis area, has gotten pushback from some former fans because she drew the following poster commenting on the situation, which she is selling and donating the proceeds to Michael Brown's family.

 

http://loveinthemargins.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/2014-8-21-mary-engelbreit-ferguson.jpg

 

Here's a link to an article about the Engelbreit situation.

 

BTW, people contributing to a fund for the police officer who shot Michael Brown have openly made comments that make the racial nature of their response clear. Hooray for judging people based on their character and not the color of their skin!

[armadillo]

The officer in Ferguson shooting gets married? I think I need to go to a Healing Center!

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/officer-darren-wilson-married-fellow-ferguson-article-1.2021745

 

""In an effort to avoid another violent protest, the city is setting up "healing centers" where people can discuss the verdict. The centers will be located at Youth UpRising, 8711 MacArthur Blvd.; Liberty Hall, 1485 8th St.; Youth Employment Partnership, 2300 International Blvd., and at Healthy Communities, 2580 San Pablo Ave.""

 

http://www.montereyherald.com/general-news/20141119/oakland-readies-for-ferguson-verdict/2

[bigvalboy]

Whether or no he is indicted, healing centers are a joke. It's like handing a man a band aid that has cut off his hand. Why they are waiting till after dark to announce the Grand Jury's decision is just baffling.

[+ azdr0710]

the announcement is schedule for 9pm ET, according to an NBC News article....

 

live here:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/coming-decision-ferguson-grand-jury-officer-darren-wilson-n255391

[bigvalboy]

the announcement is schedule for 9pm ET, according to an NBC News article....

 

live here:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/coming-decision-ferguson-grand-jury-officer-darren-wilson-n255391

 

CNN is already reporting that there will be no indictment, because he has not been asked to turn himself in, and that would have had to happen before an indictment came down. Friends close to him have already said that he is much relieved. They are negotiating his resigning from the force. My guess is that he got a big fat check to walk away with his new bride.

 

I guess we will see in a few moments....

[+ deej]

Why they are waiting till after dark to announce the Grand Jury's decision is just baffling.

 

It puts them on the TeeVee machine during prime time. Best coverage.

 

Personally, I'm betting they wanted to let the protesters assemble and get all rubbed up. After they react, authorities can say "SEE? SEE HOW THEY ARE?" and send in the troops. It's all strategery.

[bigvalboy]

It puts them on the TeeVee machine during prime time. Best coverage.

 

Personally, I'm betting they wanted to let the protesters assemble and get all rubbed up. After they react, authorities can say "SEE? SEE HOW THEY ARE?" and send in the troops. It's all strategery.

 

I have to say, that was one of my thoughts also, to get them all worked up after dark, and hope for some trouble.

[bostonman]

I have to say, that was one of my thoughts also, to get them all worked up after dark, and hope for some trouble.

 

In which case, they got it. No one wins in this situation. A boy was killed, and the killer gets off free. Brown's family specifically asked that there be no violence tonight, and that wish was not respected - so now, they have lost their son, they are devastated at the grand jury's finding, AND their request is not being honored. And yes, for those people who are satisfied with tonight's verdict, they can unfortunately watch all of this unfold on TV with an "I told you so" jab at the Ferguson community. And now the police are using tear gas, which they may feel is justified to keep the crowd under control, but it only makes THEM look worse, especially in the context of the whole issue of police brutality that started all of this.

 

No one wins. There is no justice here for anyone. And I can only imagine Michael Brown looking down from heaven and shedding his own tears over the violence he's seeing in his own community as a result of all of this. Surely this is not the reaction HE would want either.

 

Prosecutor McCulloch, in his comments after revealing the verdict, had no viable answers for eventual solutions to the problems at hand, other than (to paraphrase) "We just hope this kind of thing doesn't happen again." And Obama's attempt at peaceful, comforting words surely came from his heart, but I think he needed to grow a fucking pair of balls and really preach tonight, and make a real, compelling, passionate, strong statement from a place of real leadership. He didn't. At all. I think his well-intentioned but ultimately impotent words fell on deaf ears.

 

Meh.

[+ purplekow]

A grand jury heard 70 hours of evidence and decided that there was not enough evidence to warrant a trial. "A boy was killed and the killer gets off free" That is the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that incites. Either you trust the judicial system or you don't, but according to the grand jury, his killer did not "get off" rather there was insufficent evidence to even send the policeman to trial. Perhaps you are inclined to believe, with the limited information you have, that a crime was committed, but according to the people with the most information, that was not the case.

 

 

 

In the most infamous recent murder case, OJ got off, he was charged and acquitted. In this case, there are no charges, so no one got off.

 

As for a conspiracy to wait until after dark in order to facilitate violence, I offer that if there was a conspiracy to delay the announcement, one may make the case that they did so in order to get prime time TV exposure and in that one would have a more plausible explanation.

 

 

As for your assertion that "no one gets justice here for anyone" i would contend that many people did not get the decision they wanted. Many hoped for a different outcome. But ultimately, the appropriate legal steps were taken and justice, agree with the decision or not, was served.

[bostonman]

A grand jury heard 70 hours of evidence and decided that there was not enough evidence to warrant a trial. "A boy was killed and the killer gets off free" That is the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that incites. Either you trust the judicial system or you don't, but according to the grand jury, his killer did not "get off" rather there was insufficent evidence to even send the policeman to trial. Perhaps you are inclined to believe, with the limited information you have, that a crime was committed, but according to the people with the most information, that was not the case.

 

 

 

In the most infamous recent murder case, OJ got off, he was charged and acquitted. In this case, there are no charges, so no one got off.

 

As for a conspiracy to wait until after dark in order to facilitate violence, I offer that if there was a conspiracy to delay the announcement, one may make the case that they did so in order to get prime time TV exposure and in that one would have a more plausible explanation.

 

 

As for your assertion that "no one gets justice here for anyone" i would contend that many people did not get the decision they wanted. Many hoped for a different outcome. But ultimately, the appropriate legal steps were taken and justice, agree with the decision or not, was served.

 

Yes, I'm aware that "getting off" is not legally correct here, but the result is the same - the officer will not be convicted. In essence, he got off.

 

And yes, I'm reacting out of pure emotion and maybe not everything I'm saying is accurate or right. But at least I'm simply venting my frustrations by typing them on the internet - not rioting in Ferguson. I guess really my ultimate point is that, though not unexpected, the violence in response to tonight's verdict is just as sad and wrong as the police shooting in the first place. I'm sad for all involved.

[bigvalboy]

As critical as I have been in the past in regards to this shooting and the handling of the entire process thus far. The verdict did not surprise me. I for one am willing to wait, and withdraw and reserve my judgment until all the evidence has been released and analyzed. There are great legal minds that will do that. At this point, there are far more questions than answers.

 

For now, the only thought that I have is the same one that I've had all along, and that is, did Michael Brown have to die? I think the evidence will answer that question, and then we will all go back to our lives, and in the end.....nothing will change.