Dharun Ravu Guilty of Invasion of Privacy in Rutgers Webcam Spy Trail

[edjames]

The jury verdict is in and Dharun faces years in prison and deportation to India.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/dharun-ravi-guilty-of-invasion-of-privacy_n_1353616.html?ref=crime&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing8%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D144090

 

ED

[jjkrkwood]

Good, at least THIS jury got it right !

[JT Brooklyn]

Deportation quickly sounds about right to me! Why should we keep his sorry ass and feed him!

[jjkrkwood]

Deportation quickly sounds about right to me! Why should we keep his sorry ass and feed him!

 

I feel prison is the right solution for him. When he gets gang-banged by a large group of sweaty, tatooed muscle thugs, that should satify whatever curiosity he had about GAY. ?

[seeker630]

Well, I'll probably get slammed for this, but after reading a pretty detailed piece in the New Yorker, I felt that the defendant was more guilty of immaturity and teen-age stupidity than hate.

 

Does anyone know if the suicide note was ever made public? Nothing I've read would have made me expect suicide - not that the means anything.

 

What Dharun Ravu did was definitely a tragedy, but it did seem to me that everyone jumped on the bullying bandwagon in Pavlovian fashion.

[Guest]

Well, I'll probably get slammed for this, but after reading a pretty detailed piece in the New Yorker, I felt that the defendant was more guilty of immaturity and teen-age stupidity than hate.

 

Does anyone know if the suicide note was ever made public? Nothing I've read would have made me expect suicide - not that the means anything.

 

What Dharun Ravu <sic> did was definitely a tragedy, but it did seem to me that everyone jumped on the bullying bandwagon in Pavlovian fashion.

 

Wow. What an amazing opinion. Of course, no one is saying that Dharun Ravi suspected Clementi was going to kill himself. He was not convicted of involuntary manslaughter. While Ravi was 19 at the time, making him technically a teenager, he is certainly considered an adult, and probably a fairly intelligent one at that if he was attending Rutgers. He was convicted on a number of other charges, however:

"The jury considered Ravi's fate on 35 separate questions regarding 15 counts, making for complex deliberations over three days. He was found guilty of 24 charges including invasion of privacy, bias intimidation, attempted invasion of privacy, tampering with physical evidence, hindering apprehension or prosecution, witness tampering and tampering with physical evidence" (from USA Today)

I do agree that the suicide was probably not something Ravi could have predicted, but he had to know that the things he did were not only illegal, but designed to humiliate and psychologically traumatize the victim. According to what I have read in internet articles, the judge is required by law to sentence Ravi, as a first-time offender, to a minimum of 3-5 years (maximum of 10 years). Although the fact that the victim killed himself (or if he didn't) does not alter the fact that Ravi's actions were illegal, the suicide highlights the importance of Ravi having to suffer the consequences of his actions. To merely deport Ravi would send a terrible message, especially given the outcome.

I'm not going to "slam you" myself, but the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post was something Dan Aykroyd used to say to Jane Curtin when I truly was a teenager before the age of majority:

[+ Shoreboy]

I'm glad the verdict turned out the way it did since he caused such a chain of pain.

[+ FreshFluff]

I do agree that the suicide was probably not something Ravi could have predicted, but he had to know that the things he did were not only illegal, but designed to humiliate and psychologically traumatize the victim.

 

I was bullied as a child, and it was painful. Nevertheless, I'm really conflicted about the verdict, specifically the "bias intimidation" part; he was spying, but according to the NYer article, it's unclear that he intended to intimidate. There's no indication he ever thought Tyler was reading Ravi's tweets, and he certainly didn't intend for Tyler to know he was being spied on. (Students at my university post overtly racist crap--both about professors and other students--on public Twitter accounts. Hell, they post stuff about illegal activity on there. These are career and grade conscious kids too.)

 

Also, Ravi had conducted webcam experiments before; in high school, he had female friends install software that (supposedly) secretly turned on their webcams.

 

However, he was an idiot not to take the community service only plea deal. His attorney really should have convinced him to do so.

[+ nycman]

I agree what the kid did was wrong and that he is guilty as charged.

 

Nonetheless, I think he either had the world WORST legal team.....

they put up his father’s business associates as character witnesses?

and he didn't take the stand in his own defense?

and he didn’t take the plea deal with no prison time?

Really?

 

…..or……

 

the kids really is a slime ball and they couldn't find any of

his peers that were willing to defend him and his character in

court. In addition, they couldn't risk putting the asshole defendant

on the stand.

 

I think the unfortunate truth is it’s a combination of both….

Crappy legal team and the kid is a jerk.

 

Either way, justice was served.

[+ WilliamM]

Another Point of View

 

Well, I'll probably get slammed for this, but after reading a pretty detailed piece in the New Yorker, I felt that the defendant was more guilty of immaturity and teen-age stupidity than hate.

 

That was my impression from the little of the New Yorker article that I read back in February. I just found the Feb. 6, 2012 issue of The New Yorker, and will finish the article tonight.

 

I am not sure that we will agree, as I read more. However, I am very glad you posted with a different point of view---whether I agree ultimately or not with the article's author, Ian Parker.

[seeker630]

That was my impression from the little of the New Yorker article that I read back in February. I just found the Feb. 6, 2012 issue of The New Yorker, and will finish the article tonight.

 

I am not sure that we will agree, as I read more. However, I am very glad you posted with a different point of view---whether I agree ultimately or not with the article's author, Ian Parker.

 

William, just to be clear, I DO think that what Ravu did was illegal and unethical and deserved punishment, nor do I mean to minimize the tragedy of Clementi's death in any way. As to whether Ravu is a homophobe - I'm less sure.

 

Here's another article with another perspective.

 

Ravu & Clementi never got along as roommates, and they were very different people. Ravu made cracks about sexual orientation, Clementi made comments about Ravu's ethnicity.

 

A troubling case for many reasons!

[+ glutes]

A troubling case for many reasons!

 

Dharun Ravi doesn't like gays but he sure likes to watch them have sex. *awkward!*

Deport him and ban any re-entry (pun) to USofA, after a good jail block butt fuck...

[seeker630]

Dharun Ravi doesn't like gays but he sure likes to watch them have sex. *awkward!*

Deport him and ban any re-entry (pun) to USofA, after a good jail block butt fuck...

 

Check your facts - no one watched anyone have sex.

[+ glutes]

OK, it was just a kiss*

[+ FreshFluff]

Ravu & Clementi never got along as roommates, and they were very different people. Ravu made cracks about sexual orientation, Clementi made comments about Ravu's ethnicity.

 

And both made cracks about the other probably being "poor."

[Guest]

As to whether Ravu is a homophobe - I'm less sure.

 

Ravu & Clementi never got along as roommates, and they were very different people. Ravu made cracks about sexual orientation, Clementi made comments about Ravu's ethnicity.

 

 

You may wish to check up on your facts a bit. Ravi was not charged or convicted about "making cracks." And it's a bit of an abomination to compare "making comments" to what Ravi did (why you persist in misspelling Ravi's name in multiple posts remains unclear to me). It was part of the court testimony, from the captain of his ultimate frisbee team, Geoffrey Irving, that Ravi was uncomfortable having a gay roommate:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/01/dharun-ravi-trial-gay-roommate-webcam-spying_n_1314912.html

[uwsman2]

Guilt was virtually conceded at trial and the key issue was motive - as well as impact. Did Ravi intend to cause harm, and did he cause harm. It's unclear that the suicide was a direct result of what Ravi did, and the prosecution knew they could never prove that, so they did not charge him for that. Instead, they worked on every possible charge they could think up connected to the acts that could be firmly proved, and got him convicted on a long list of charges that all add up to enough to make him deportable and subject to substantial prison time. I tend to think the prosecutor went a bit overboard with the charges, but that Ravi is guilty and should be punished. Even just having the conviction on his record and a relatively brief prison term -- remember, this is a first offense by him, non-violent, and he's still really just an immature kid, to judge by the detailed account in the New Yorker. I suspect the judge will not impose anywhere near the maximum when they hold sentencing in May. Moderate sentence, some probation, some community service. Then it's up to the feds whether to seek deportation.

[bigvalboy]

Wow. What an amazing opinion. Of course, no one is saying that Dharun Ravi suspected Clementi was going to kill himself. He was not convicted of involuntary manslaughter. While Ravi was 19 at the time, making him technically a teenager, he is certainly considered an adult, and probably a fairly intelligent one at that if he was attending Rutgers. He was convicted on a number of other charges, however:

"The jury considered Ravi's fate on 35 separate questions regarding 15 counts, making for complex deliberations over three days. He was found guilty of 24 charges including invasion of privacy, bias intimidation, attempted invasion of privacy, tampering with physical evidence, hindering apprehension or prosecution, witness tampering and tampering with physical evidence" (from USA Today)

I do agree that the suicide was probably not something Ravi could have predicted, but he had to know that the things he did were not only illegal, but designed to humiliate and psychologically traumatize the victim. According to what I have read in internet articles, the judge is required by law to sentence Ravi, as a first-time offender, to a minimum of 3-5 years (maximum of 10 years). Although the fact that the victim killed himself (or if he didn't) does not alter the fact that Ravi's actions were illegal, the suicide highlights the importance of Ravi having to suffer the consequences of his actions. To merely deport Ravi would send a terrible message, especially given the outcome.

I'm not going to "slam you" myself, but the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post was something Dan Aykroyd used to say to Jane Curtin when I truly was a teenager before the age of majority:

 

Excellent post Unicorn....concise and accurate.

[Cooper]

There was a "plea deal"

 

Back in December, Ravi turned down a plea deal and took his chances with a court case. He never thought he'd be found guilty. If his attorney suggested he turn down the deal and take it before a jury, looking back, it was a bad decision.

 

"By opting for a trial, Ravi risks prison time and deportation if he’s convicted. The plea deal had called for probation and included the Middlesex County Prosecutor’s Office’s offer to help Ravi if immigration authorities moved to deport him."

[bigvalboy]

Back in December, Ravi turned down a plea deal and took his chances with a court case. He never thought he'd be found guilty. If his attorney suggested he turn down the deal and take it before a jury, looking back, it was a bad decision.

 

"By opting for a trial, Ravi risks prison time and deportation if he’s convicted. The plea deal had called for probation and included the Middlesex County Prosecutor’s Office’s offer to help Ravi if immigration authorities moved to deport him."

 

Yes Coop I had heard that also. I was not privy of course to the behind the scene logic on why it was best to go to trial instead of taking the plea, but from where I sit, I thought it was foolish to go to trial.

[shadowcatzxxx]

This entire thing is so awful for everyone concerned. "Tragic" only begins to scratch the surface.

 

And it is just the most high-profile example of what can happen when kids grow up depending on IM's, tweets, FB posts, and e-mails for communication about substantive matters rather than face-to-face communications. For any of you who are genuinely interested in the details of what went on, I STRONGLY recommend that New Yorker article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker). Heartbreaking.

 

Anyway, if any of you know kids who have come of age with all these "pseudo-communication" tools, you should know that the nature of the medium encourages adolescent boys in particular to swaggger, boast, and say things they would never say to a person's face ... and it encourages all kids to be cynical, and to use lingo like LOL and OMG, and WTF whose literal meaning may be clear, but whose intent can be interpreted in different ways. I can't help but think that, absent all this electronic chatter, these two boys would have met each other and had some discussions that would have either enabled them to understand each other and co-exist, or to decide that they needed to find other roomates.

 

And I agree that, in the end, Ravi's defense attorneys were either incompetent or negligent or both. The please deal would at least have avoided destroying a second life.

[seeker630]

You may wish to check up on your facts a bit. Ravi was not charged or convicted about "making cracks." And it's a bit of an abomination to compare "making comments" to what Ravi did (why you persist in misspelling Ravi's name in multiple posts remains unclear to me). It was part of the court testimony, from the captain of his ultimate frisbee team, Geoffrey Irving, that Ravi was uncomfortable having a gay roommate:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/01/dharun-ravi-trial-gay-roommate-webcam-spying_n_1314912.html

 

First, thanks for pointing out that I've been spelling the name incorrectly; that was the spelling used in the title of the thread & I overlooked the error.

 

Secondly, I was not equating the spying with the racist comments. Nor do I dispute that what Ravi did was WRONG. But I am less certain that homophobia was the MAJOR motivator here.

 

From coverage of the trial (and apparently one source for your Huffington Post article:

 

Prosecutors say Ravi's behavior was intended to intimidate his roommate because of his sexual orientation. But multiple students and friends of Ravi's have testified this week that Ravi never said anything hateful or derogatory about his roommate's sexual orientation.

 

Irving's testimony was the first time anyone has indicated that Ravi was uneasy having a gay roommate.

 

But, when asked on cross-examination if Ravi ever said anything "disparaging" or "malicious" about his roommate, Irving said no.

 

 

Neither you nor I will ever KNOW. Nor will we ever KNOW all the reasons Clementi felt that suicide was his only option.

 

But at the end of the day, WHY Ravi did what he did matters less than the consequences.

[+ FreshFluff]

Anyway, if any of you know kids who have come of age with all these "pseudo-communication" tools, you should know that the nature of the medium encourages adolescent boys in particular to swaggger, boast, and say things they would never say to a person's face

 

And I agree that, in the end, Ravi's defense attorneys were either incompetent or negligent or both. The please deal would at least have avoided destroying a second life.

 

Yeah, I see it all the time with my own students, who are almost exactly Ravi's age. As for his attorneys, they may have either wanted the revenue from a trial or hoped to get some prominence out of getting a not guilty verdict in such a high profile case.

[+ WilliamM]

Yeah' date=' I see it all the time with my own students, who are almost exactly Ravi's age. [/quote']

 

I have a Facebook friend---a junior at an Ivy League university---who is not homophobic. Yet you would not know it by the occasional Facebook banter with his friends. He is socially awkward like Ravi, despite significant achievements in life and at college.

 

Dharun Ravi was immature (according to The New Yorker article, he had never had a girl friend) and a jerk. But, he was a minor-league bully compared to others whom I have met. On the surface Tyler Clementi was marginally more mature. But, he had just come out to his parents; his dad was more supportive than his mom. Tyler was just beginning to enjoy sex with men as well and starting college. A lot was happening at once.

 

Tyler did send a formal e-mail to Raahi Grover, the R.A., describing the events, and writing, "...I am extremely uncomfortable sharing a room with someone who would act in this wildly inappropriate manner." The R.A. took the e-mail seriously. So it is all the more confusing as to why Tyler chose to end his life less than twenty-four hours later.

[cany10011]

perhaps if his parents esp his mom were a little more supportive, the outcome may have been different. I recall reading somewhere his mother cried when he came out to her- even though he has an older brother who is gay. The unconditional love and support of parents is very important...esp if he had no one except for his RA to turn to.

 

 

 

 

I have a Facebook friend---a junior at an Ivy League university---who is not homophobic. Yet you would not know it by the occasional Facebook banter with his friends. He is socially awkward like Ravi, despite significant achievements in life and at college.

 

Dharun Ravi was immature (according to The New Yorker article, he had never had a girl friend) and a jerk. But, he was a minor-league bully compared to others whom I have met. On the surface Tyler Clementi was marginally more mature. But, he had just come out to his parents; his dad was more supportive than his mom. Tyler was just beginning to enjoy sex with men as well and starting college. A lot was happening at once.

 

Tyler did send a formal e-mail to Raahi Grover, the R.A., describing the events, and writing, "...I am extremely uncomfortable sharing a room with someone who would act in this wildly inappropriate manner." The R.A. took the e-mail seriously. So it is all the more confusing as to why Tyler chose to end his life less than twenty-four hours later.