Aging

[Guest Gringo]

i was taught not 2 judge a book by its cover. but that's exactly what we do in America, especially gay America. we r a very youth-oriented society. so where do older gay men go when they no longer go 2 the bars? well...there r organizations, like Sage, which r a support group 4 older gays. i went 2 a meeting once, it was depressing. i often do not find the company of older gay men interesting or exciting. i prefer 2 surround myself with youth, energy & laughter. perhaps that's why brazil is such an ego massage 4 an older gay man. young people r really attracted & interested in older men in ways that don't exist in america. its something in the latin culture. if i were 2 go 2 a disco palace & a handsome young man noticed my longing gaze, he might not welcome my attention. in bz, on the other hand, even that rare man who might not b bi-sexual, at least would acknowledge my interest with appreciation & a sly nod. i remember the 1st time i came 2 the realization that an attractive young man was actually really interested in me, an older gay man. a handsome young man who really wanted 2 touch me in places my bathing suit covers!! how refreshing. then, of course, there is always the rent-a-dick available in the saunas. strickly top quality boys willing 2 smile convincingly & whisper sweet nothings in my ear. its a game and often a charade, but they r very convincing. still, somehow its not that dirty faggot feeling i sometimes get with rent-a-dick escorts in america. so, until the real thing comes along, as they say, smile at me sauna-boy, take me in your arms, and show me where the cabines r. prazer e tudo meu.

[nate_sf]

This is all so depressing. I'm wondering if I'm the only one here who has gay male friends in their 60's and 70's? Through friends, I've met a number of older guys and love hanging out with them. One has taken it upon himself to introduce me and my boyfriend to all the classic films we should be brushed up on... just this weekend we saw "Sunset Boulevard," which I'd not seen before. I suppose this is how I earn my Q-card! For Thanksgiving, we went to another older couple's house, where guests ranged in age from 30's to 70's, plus one guy's 20-something son. I find it all makes for a more interesting time than just hanging around with a bunch of guys all the same age.

 

Sex wise, recently I was with a guy who, who only afterwards told me he was in his 70's. I was truly amazed, since I had always had assumptions about what 70-year olds were supposed to be like. The sex was a lot of fun, and I wasn't just smiling to be nice -- we really had a mutually good time.

 

Yeah, our society is pretty superficial about age, but I think there are bright spots out there too. It might be that it takes a while for younger guys in their 20's to appreciate older men, but with age hopefully comes some maturity and a more open mind.

 

Are there other guys here who feel the same way I do about aging? (Sure hope so...)

[Samai139]

I'm 62 and reached 30 in 1970---those of you old enough to remember the dark end of the '60's will remember the phrase: "Don't trust anybody over 30!!" Needless to say, I felt like the end of the world had come. So what did I do? Left the country, I just couldn't hack the boomer's definition of what America should be. I didn't return until 1983--except for short visits every three years--and even though the general attitude toward aging had not changed very much, I at least at 42 could deal with it a little better. Until I retired last June, I struggled with the aging process and have to admit, usually lost. Spent a lot of money on hair replacement systems, which in retrospect just drew attention to a problem of aging that many men--gay and straight have. Since June, I have had an ear pierced, got a tatoo, and stopped wearing hair replacements. It hasn't been easy--especially facing the music that I not just "balding" but bald. I rarely go to bars and have never gone to a bath house, so I am not going to address how "older" men are treated in those places. Most of my life was also spent in the closet because in the late '50's and early '60's you had to be very, very brave to be "out," and I was not.

2002??? I think our American culture has a long, long way to go to treat ALL ages with respect and dignity. Cultural shifts do not usually come quickly, but with the millions of baby boomers now reaching middle and advance middle age, perhaps, just perhaps, there will be a sublte change. I am no sociologist, but I believe the decimation of many gay men to HIV/AIDS may also have something to do with the lack of "respect" that many young gay men have toward those who are in their 50's+.

I'm grateful to those who have posted places where older men go and groups that have formed. But like one of the others who responded, I don't enjoy spending all my time with people of the same age--whether it's my age, people in their '60's or young one. I want a mixture, a potpurri of generations.

It sounds like Brazil is the place to go. I have to start saving my dollars/dineros???

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

>When I was young I wondered where all the gay men over 40

>went.

 

The reason they seemed to disappear is because 99% of them let themselves go to pot. There are countless young guys you don't notice because they don't take of themselves so they don't show up on your radar either. What we immediately notice are "attractive" people.

 

One of the major reasons younger guys don't interract with 40+ guys is not because they're OLD, but rather they don't have anything in common with them. And furthermore, if a cute 26yo came up to one you older queens, he'd be afraid of being accosted.

 

Last year I made the observation about how The Pines is filled with guys over 40, whereas, during the 90's, they were hard to find because they were mostly dying. The current younger generation is just now beginning to see "older" guys and they're opinion of who and what is attractive to them will alter over time.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you're upset that guys aren't paying attention to you anymore, get your fat lazy ass to the gym, hire a serious trainer, workout 4x/week, change your diet, stop smoking, get rest, do cardio 3x/week IN THE MORNING BEFORE EATING, and you'll start seeing a different person staring back at you in the mirror in the morning. And if you start now, you'll be shocked at what you'll look like by summer and how the youngsters will be all over you like white on rice.

 

However, if you don't want to do anything about your body, then don't carp about how society and the media does nothing to promote balding, grey-haired, fat-assed, pot-bellied smokers. Granted, there are some hots guys into men like that, but as my best friend said years ago to me when I said he should be able to find a boyfriend because there are guys into fat guys like him: "I refuse to be the object of someone else's perversion."

 

That's all for now, I have to go throw some more logs on the fire.

 

It be cold here in Manhattan.

 

Warmly yours,

 

FFF

[+ Lucky]

Mr. Foom: "I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you're upset that guys aren't paying attention to you anymore, get your fat lazy ass to the gym, hire a serious trainer, workout 4x/week, change your diet, stop smoking, get rest, do cardio 3x/week IN THE MORNING BEFORE EATING, and you'll start seeing a different person staring back at you in the mirror in the morning"

 

Just for the record, I am in better physical shape than I have been in my entire life. I go to the gym 5x a week, I have minimal body fat, don't smoke, get my rest and exercise my brain. What I probably need to do is go to a Dale Carnegie class with you!

[+ Charlie]

An old friend of mine, who is not very sexually active anymore, recently returned from a trip to Denmark and raved about the great time he had in the baths; he's 72. Having lived in Europe, I can attest to the fact that there is somewhat less ageism there, but that is changing as American attitudes towards age and physical perfection become more widespread in all cultures. I wouldn't recommend hopping a flight to Europe as a cure-all for one's lagging sex life.

 

I also wouldn't recommend a frantic physical self-improvement program. Getting in shape is good for anyone's physical and mental health, and we should do it for that reason, not from some illusion that we will be more desirable to hot young men. Young gays for whom looks are the most important value are not going to care if you have great pecs for an old guy--they're still old pecs. The only young men who are going to be interested in you are those who care about more personal qualities, such as intelligence, kindness, sense of humor, wit, etc., none of which you can develop at the gym or buy at Saks.

 

And let's face it: even those young men with the depth to appreciate older men's characters are usually not really physically attracted to them, any more than we are to one another. The problem is not in them but in ourselves, that we feel such a strong need to be sexually desired as an affirmation of our worth. I suppose I was lucky to have come out in my teens and had lots of sexual experience by the time I reached 40, so I was able to let go of the need to be wanted for my body fairly easily, but it's something we all have to do if we want to come to a realistic compromise with life after 40, 50, whatever. Otherwise, we will be increasingly miserable as we want more and more and get less and less sexual (actually: emotional) satisfaction.

 

The reason I have turned almost exclusively to sex with escorts in the past 20 years is because I know that it is all about me wanting them. I am pleased when they indicate that they enjoy the interaction, but I think in most cases it is because they recognize that I am not demanding that they want me with the same intensity. I know my value to them is not based on my looks, any more than it is in my job or among my family and friends. In fact, I am beginning to realize that I could probably give up sex altogether without any serious psychological consequences. What I couldn't give up is social intercourse, with all ages and sexual orientations.

[eastbayguy]

>The reason they seemed to disappear is because 99% of them

>let themselves go to pot. There are countless young guys you

>don't notice because they don't take of themselves so they

>don't show up on your radar either. What we immediately notice

>are "attractive" people.

 

Amen! From years of extensive business travel, I'd gained a considerable amount of weight. Started eating carefully, began a workout program (with a trainer) and stopped obsessing about my personal life until I dropped a significant amount of weight. Still have the grey hair, and less of it than I'd like. Dropping the weight was a huge boost to my confidence. Plus, I feel so much better.

 

First night the reduced me went out to a gay club, I came home with a very hot 24 year old.

 

You're spot on here, FFF. Many younger guys do notice older guys who treat them well and who take care of themselves. Am heading to NYC for NYE this year with someone I care about deeply, and, with whom I believe a very special relationship may be possible.

 

If there's a wedding, you're all invited...

 

--EBG

[btmstudnyc]

Cursed

 

OK, so I guess I'm cursed. I've always loved older men. MY entire life. I now like younger men too. Altough, I don't think I ever have been really, really turned on by anyone in their 20's. I guess all the bf's I had along the way loved me....screwing the young twink...no wonder I was so popular. I just turned 40, and started doing escort and massage work full time this year. FUNNY, How I feel that there is no competition between me and a twink. I actually have never had a boyfriend younger than me...ever. That may change, but I have this underlying feeling that I could only like a young daddy.

 

FFF...you are so on the money...or should I say on the mark. I actually love to make fun of age. It's such a ridiculous topic for me. The only really great thing that I like about youth is the NO HOLDS BAR GO FOR IT I'VE GOT NOTHING TO LOSE I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS OR SAYS THIS IS CREATIVE I WANNA BE SOMEBODY attitude. Thats attractive...so any youth who is a dead fish...is old in my book anyways.

 

:+

 

I'm sure someone will find something nasty to say about my post. Or at least think it. BUT....I still have that NO HOLDS BAR GO FOR IT I'VE GOT NOTHING TO LOSE I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS OR SAYS THIS IS CREATIVE I WANNA BE SOMEBODY attitude, so....I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

LOVE YOU ALL

 

JIM

[Cooper]

Lucky, thanks for resurrecting this thread, I missed it the first time around...When I retired, I was in my late 40's and thought I had planned a wonderful future. I purchased a home on a lake, got all the water toys, started a garden, got a dog, and kept company with a few good men. Life was comfortable and easy, so I thought..Reality suddendly came knocking when I realized I had overlooked one important area, my aging parents and their care. Afterall, aren't parents suppose to live forever! Shortly after my retirement, my mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Suddendly MY life was put on hold as I became her sole care provider. It was her wish to remain at home and I did everything possible to make her comfortable and see that her wish came true. She died about a year later, at home, surrounded by her loved ones...A few months later I was back on my feet and ready to fulfill my retirement dreams. I began traveling, meeting new people, joined a health club, basically, I was finally enjoying the good things in life...However, it happened again, less than a year after my mother's passing, my father, now 87, had a stroke. I became his sole care provider. The stroke effected his balance, memory, and speech. He needed me and I was there...My "foot-loose and fancy free" life style never materialized. Aging crept up too quickly as my priorities changed. I've lost that sparkle that once glittered in my eyes and my stride has slowed down. I've become old without wanting to be, it's just life going on...

Coop

[Donnie]

>I've said it before and I'll say it again

 

You use this phrase constantly. Obviously your brain only has a limited number of topics and subjects: "escorts are all whores", and "everyone should workout". How exciting. Oh and before I forget, you've also said this before and you'll say it again: "take your meds" and "you live with your aging mother and 6 cats". Zzzzzzzzzz.

[jackhammer91406]

I was up in Sacramento ( a whole other thread on that disaster) when the original thread on this topic was posted and then disappeared. I am thankful for it's return.

Boy, Howdy, is this one of the issues I am dealing with. I am blessed by the responses I have read so far. They have done as much for my depression as 20 weeks of therapy. I knew I was wrestling ( I love the concept of two men wrestling) ..umm where was I , oh yeah, I have grown old in mind and spirit. I have been out of circulation for nearly 2 decades and much of it due to my one gay relationship that turned south. Now, like that relationship, my whole body seems to have turned south on me. I am making progress to return to a more fit condition and I agree with those posters who have said that being fit is important to feeling good. And I agree it should be done for that reason only. The side benefits are that when we feel good about ourselves, that shows in everything we do and others (with any sense of judgement) are attracted to that rather than to how we look. How ironic for me (who in my youth was obsessed with looks and worked hard to keep them) is now in a place where I am judged by the same shallowness I exhibited as a younger man. Well, guys, I want you to know that for me, this board has been a great help to me in trying to define how I want to live the rest of my life and even whether I want to live it. Thanks to all who have posted on this and many other related subjects.

[taylorky]

i think this is one of the reasons i like coop.priorities,loyalty,and he always comes across as somebody we might trust..........taylor@12:14-12/04/02

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Two Thoughts

 

Rod Hagen (32) and I (36) have both commented on the fact that escorts over 30, time and time again, have been consider by a fair number of clients on this board as being "old." This is merely a further expression of the fact that gay men have marginalized anyone (at any age) who will not fit a preconceived, culturally defined notion of what a gay man should look like. I agree that, at any age, any person of any sexual orientation, should exercise, watch what they eat and otherwise do what is necessary for their own health and welfare. Trying to do so to fit into a culturally define notion of what a gay man should be is a mistake.

 

Finally, this is not going to change unless and until more gay men are willing to speak up. Those things which push our buttons, even the fact that we may consider ourselves "tops" or "bottoms" are purely learned behaviors and are affected as much by conditioning and societal pressures as any other factors. The answers lie as much in ourselves as in what we believe we find attractive in one another.

 

http://www.gaydar.co.uk/francodisantis

[larbord]

I am 53 and recently spent 3 weeks out of town, working with a group of people in their 20's. One of this group was gay, and he and I, as well as others in the group, would spend Saturday nights in the local gay bar. When the others would ask me "how I did", I explained to them that a man my age in a gay bar is virtually invisible. Every one of them told me that I should not be so down on myself, that I should not be so "self-deprecating". I had to explain to them that I was very comfortable with myself, and that the being invisible part had nothing to do with me as a person, rather, just the fact that I am 53 years old with a head of grey hair. I had a good time at the bar, talking to my friends, and watching everyone have a good time. The fact that they knew me and liked me made it hard for them to understand what I was saying. However, when I went with them to straight bars, none of them focused on anyone out of their age group, either.

 

Growing old is a fact of life which I am comfortable with. I've been doing it for the last 53 years. Gay society in America is based on youth and beauty, which I also accept, having been, and still being, a part of it. I have a full head of grey hair, and am in fairly decent shape. I have learned to take satisfaction in this for myself, and not require the constant attention of others to give me that satisfaction.

[Guest Collie]

This is probably one of the most important issues facing gay men next to AIDS. The proplem with aging in the US is we do not want to see it. That is why we put old people in "retirement villages", etc. No one wants to face the inevitable. I am always impressed when I walk through Chinatown in San Francisco, how old everyone is. They rush about shopping and living their lives.........Then by contrast go to the Beverly Center in Los Angeles and all you see are very young people running around charging goods on their credit cards trying to be "with it".

 

I never go where I am not wanted....and you can feel the negative vibes coming your way when you are old and gray and gay. Gay men collectively treat old people so bad it scares me. But like one poster said, soon over fifty will be the biggest demographic in this country and we'll see how the youth loving culture will change. Someone told me they are now changing middle age to go up to sixty, to help the boomers psychologically.

 

The irony of the gay liberation movement is that it was all about being what you "are".......You were born gay and gays wanted everyone to accept them and have all the rights they were entitled to. And yet, it all seems to be about, "young gay liberation". Frankly, I couldn't give a shit if someone young doesn't look at me or not. I feel good about me and what I accomplished and any young person is lucky to have me as a friend, lover, or for that matter, for me to take my time to talk to them. Soon, those tight bodies will sag and everyone will look through them. We all get what we deserve in life, and aging is a part of it.

 

I remember hearing conversations that my mother had with her girlfriends in 1968 when Jackie Kennedy married Aristotle Onassis.

The women all thought he was so sexy....so sexy, and they could see why she was attracted to him. He was lucky he wasn't gay........He would have been tossed in the ocean.

[+ deej]

RE: Two Thoughts

 

>Rod Hagen (32) and I (36) have both commented on the fact

>that escorts over 30, time and time again, have been consider

>by a fair number of clients on this board as being "old." This

>is merely a further expression of the fact that gay men have

>marginalized anyone (at any age) who will not fit a

>preconceived, culturally defined notion of what a gay man

>should look like.

 

That's actually very true, but the old addage "age is a matter of mind -- if you don't mind, it doesn't matter" applies equally.

 

You're not alone. Ageism is a problem in our society in general. Models are over the hill when they hit 25 or so. Hell, even baseball players are considered "old" when they hit 30, and yet some of the greats played well into their 40's.

 

One of my good friends in Chicago, Peter Dixon, is in his 40's. He's actually sexier now than when he was making porn films. And he's as busy as ever as an escort. He told me he's still horny and the only change is his clients are getting younger.

 

It's all in the attitude, babe.

 

We have this thing in our society where we can't imagine our parents having sex. (hint: they did. at least once!) I've often wondered if we sometimes associate an "age group" with our parents and apply the label "asexual".

[DaninWA]

Two years ago,at 38,I finally admitted to myself that I'm gay. I'm now 40 and have had no problems attracting sex partners of all ages (except when I'm in Seattle). Although I'm no muscle god, I am in decent shape. Older men tell me I'm "cute" and have a mischievious smile. Most young guys who approach me tell me I'm "hot" and have a great smile. I don't see it myself, but I'm certainly not going to contradict them. :-)

 

For me, it seems to be attitude. I smile alot and have the wrinkles to prove it. I rarely let things get to me. The exception

is airport screeners. Those people can really push my buttons.

 

Older men, younger men, I like them all. The only advice I can offer is: If your hair is thinning, shave it off. Bald guys are soooo sexy.

}(

 

Dan

[Guest Love Bubble Butt]

Two points I'd like to make:

 

First, I don't think obsession with youth is actually a gay thing. It's more of a "man" thing. Men, gay or straight, have always put more emphasis on youth and beauty. While women tend to place more importance on character traits (and $$), men have always wanted youth and beauty. And it's not just an American cultural thing either. Look at other countries where the men who have fucked a thousand women but insist on marrying an 18 (or 16) year old virgin!

 

Every time my Father divorced, he married yet an even younger woman. So in gay culture, where you have guy with guy couplings, the guys are going to naturally be drawn physically to the "young and pretty." It's really not any different than straight men.

 

Secondly, I find a lot of the posts on this thread interesting. And please don't get angry with me for saying this, but it seems like many of you are guilty of what you're complaining about. All of these posts about going to the gym and getting physically fit so that you can once again attract these younger guys kinda misses the mark. I say that you should indeed get fit, but ONLY so you can feel good about YOURSELF and live a LONGER, HEALTHIER, and HAPPIER life!

 

If you guys go to the gym and get all buff, and you're able to attract a young hottie, then great, go for it. But what's wrong with you guys also dating a guy your own age or even someone considerable older than you? If we obsess about how we can continue attracting the young studs as we get older, then aren't we just as guilty as the younger guys whom we complain about not showing interest in older guys?

[Guest Gringo]

a very interesting perspective bubble, and i think fundamentally accurate. thanks

[btmstudnyc]

Love Bubble,

 

You are so RIGHT.

 

I guess I also don't get this thread. I think people obsess about age too much. I furthermore do not get that invisible thing at the bars...I used to work at a gay bar/club....and the older guys didn't get any more or less attention then most. There is usually the bartenders and about 5 percent...yes thats right about one in twenty guys that get a lot of attention. The guys that get attention...sparkle in some way, shape or form. Hot is hot, funny is funny, strange is strange. All relative stuff.

 

I know all the eye candy is young (strippers, barbacks, bartenders, waiters etc...) But young is usually cheap labor too. And it's funny that its usually the leather or jeans or country bar that have the grey haired daddy's serving. Maybe when I retire...I'll have a bar with older strippers and all....I said old....not broken down.

 

When you see a vintage car that has been kept in good condition.....Everyone says WOW. OF COURSE, no one wants to see a broken down chevy...they say...get that junk off the road....but if you see one that has potential and still works...you say thats nice but could be better...When you see a car that has been taken car of...You always look and say wow. Hell, some new cars look horrid.

 

Does that last paragraph make any kind of point?

 

Geez...there I go babbling again....I think I'm going to stick to short funny posts again....Im boring myself...and DONNIE to boot.

 

Damn....now Im pissed my dick isnt long enough so that I can fuck myself. Oh well...can somebody help me here?

 

 

JIM

[+ Lucky]

bottomstud, i think you might be one of the people we are talking about here. You dont "see" this invisible thing because you are not paying attention. You will, but you are only 40.

Perhaps rather than suggest that this thread is pointless, you might concede that here is an area where you simply don't know much about the subject. And that's ok!

[ad rian]

>Perhaps rather than suggest that this thread is pointless,

>you might concede that here is an area where you simply don't

>know much about the subject. And that's ok!

 

Isn't that a tad patronizing?

[Rick Munroe]

When I was a teen & in my 20's, I was cute/handsome but I wasn't "sexy" and, of course, part of it was in my head. I didn't want to be sexy...that was for guys like Derek. I could never have been "Rick Munroe" back in those days. After I hit 30, something changed and suddenly I was a "stud"...partially due to changing my physical appearance, but it also had to do with increased cockiness & confidence (I was actually shy once upon a time!) which came from having more life experience. Suddenly, I was attracting the same guys who had formerly ignored me; I found it really amusing and exciting at the same time. I can only imagine it getting better, not waning, and I don't fear getting old at all. Aging is good (you can quote me).

[+ imagooddog]

This topic is so interesting and really "hits home". I am in my late 50's now, but when I was 18 and started going to the bars in the French Quarter of New Orleans, I could just about pick out anyone I wanted to go home with and be successful. I was a good looking "twink" and was attracted to older masculine men (older at that time meant in their 30's) !! I first noticed things beginning to change when I was in my early 40's, for by that time I was beginning to be attracted to the younger guys but they were seldom that interested in me. A previous poster was correct in that the older you get the more invisible you become in a gay bar. At my age now, even though I am still in great shape (5'10",144 lbs) and decent looking, it is depressing to go into the bars anymore, knowing that the likelyhood of meeting someone nice is almost impossible.

Funny, now that I am at this age, I am not at all attracted to "twinks", but strickly the 30 and 40 year olds. And this age group is usually looking for younger. Oh well, guess us older guys have the remember the "good ole days".

[Guest jeffOH]

I just got back from Miami Beach this week. Went to the White Party and saw many guys who were around my age*39*or older. The party at the Miami Seaquarium was a different story...much younger crowd.

 

After 4 days of partying in a row, I felt and looked every one of those 39 years. It takes alot longer for the brain cells to recharge these days.;-)

 

At the Boardwalk, I saw several men who were in their 50's and 60's and spoke to a very nice man who was 78. I'm inspired by alot of these older guys(including some of my clients)who don't let their age affect their happiness.

 

Getting older in the gay scene can be quite brutal if you overidentify with your looks. I started noticing a difference several years ago when my hair started receding and my "look" started to change. Yes, some younger guys look right through me now, but fortunately I've come to realize that I can't let others determine how I feel about myself.

 

A few years ago, hanging out with 2 of the hottest guys at an event(Matthew Rush and Big Jake)and practically getting knocked over so someone could have their picture taken with them, would have been a big blow to my ego. After a while, I would just step out of the way as soon as I saw someone approaching with a camera. I did get one ego stroke as I was stepping out of frame and a HOT passerby said to me that I was just as attractive and should be in the pic.

 

So, older guys are out there, but I suppose they've found other things to do with their time than wondering why guys 1/2 their age won't look at them..like cultivating real friendships, volunteering at hospices, traveling the world, going back to school or hiring escorts. }(

 

JEFF

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