Tragic Illiteracy in the U.S.

[Guest Merlin]

Yes, but our students become experts on political correctnes, the environment, minority mistreatment and the liberal agenda in general. Schools have to prioritize and grammar, science and mathematics are low on their list.

[+ Charlie]

Actually, the opposite is taking place in most school systems: English and math are being emphasized to the exclusion of almost anything else, because of the explosion of uniform testing in most states. Most of the favored tests measure only English and math skills (or purport to do so--it is almost impossible to measure language skills in a vacuum), because those are the basics that politicians can agree on. The quality of the tests and reliability of the results is another matter altogether.

[Guest DuchessIvanaKizznhugg]

I was shocked, appalled and saddened when I received that note....

And then, I bet, secretly aroused.

[wayout]

Actually, the opposite is taking place in most school systems: English and math are being emphasized to the exclusion of almost anything else, because of the explosion of uniform testing in most states. Most of the favored tests measure only English and math skills (or purport to do so--it is almost impossible to measure language skills in a vacuum), because those are the basics that politicians can agree on. The quality of the tests and reliability of the results is another matter altogether.

 

I am genuinely interested in understanding this in more detail as I truly love learning and the education process. That most school systems are emphasizing english and math to the exclusion of most everything else seems to me to possibly be overstated and a generalization. I can only imagine the amount of time spent on those two subjects vary quite a bit depending on school system, state, the grade of the student, the type of school (private vs public) etc. Perhaps six or seven hours are in school, considering lunch and any study time built into the schedule, seems like alot of hours left over and hard to see how all of that would be math and english, excluding the arts, history, other sciences, foreign languages, etc. Are there studies that you can reference that breaks down how our children are spending their time in school?

[+ Charlie]

There probably are studies, but I haven't looked for them. I am basing my comment on anecdotal evidence from many acquaintances in the education community. When funding is based on test results, it makes sense for administrators to concentrate efforts--and by extension financial resources--on the subjects that get tested. Social sciences (including history), the arts, and anything "foreign," including languages, are radioactive for most politicians, who are afraid of critics from both left and right, so they don't make much demand for testing on those subjects; English (grammar and vocabulary) and math seem safely objective. Science testing is avoided for a different reason: the fear that most non-Asian students will do so poorly that everyone will be embarrassed (there is also that little evolution/"creationism" problem).

 

This is not to say that more effort didn't need to be put into English and math at the elementary and secondary levels, which tended to be neglected for a generation or more. I taught at a community college which started out as a fullservice liberal arts and technical career school, but by the time I retired, almost half the faculty was in just the English and math departments, because of the perceived need for remediation in those areas for most incoming students. However, my impression is that the emphasis has recently swung too far in the other direction.

[instudiocity]

That most school systems are emphasizing english and math to the exclusion of most everything else seems to me to possibly be overstated and a generalization. I can only imagine the amount of time spent on those two subjects vary quite a bit depending on school system, state, the grade of the student, the type of school (private vs public) etc.?

 

I can give you a 'for instance'. I work in music in the K12 area of education. The number of hours committed to the arts has dropped as No Child Left Behind has come in with remedial programs for English and Math.

 

What No Child Left Behind left behind was the huge minority of the more artistic children. Now education is pounding English and Math in to creative learners who have no way of expressing what they have learned. If you teach geometry with out drawing and painting, you leave children who express themselves through art behind because the concepts they learn in the geometry class are never drawn upon in the art studio.

[AdamSmith]

tempt me though you might try.

 

'May' try, that is?

[Guest FactsPlease]

'May' try, that is?

 

I was going to say "nice try," but I don't believe in white lies:

 

Let us have your education commence here.

[KMEM]

My sister, who teaches HS in FL just told me that about 10 years ago they started pushing E&M but 5 years ago they started pushing science and this year they are adding more of the courses that were offered years ago.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[rvwnsd]

...Illiteracy in America is still growing at an alarming rate and that fact has not changed much since Rudolf Flesch wrote his best-selling expose of reading instruction in 1955. Illiteracy continues to be a critical problem, demanding enormous resources from local, state, and federal taxes, while arguments about how to teach children to read continue to rage within the education research community, on Capitol Hill, in business, and in the classroom.

 

Indeed. Illiteracy deserves our pity and support -- NOT mockery!!

 

Rudolf Flesch was a “plain English” proponent. He developed the Flesch Reading Ease index. I ran the paragraph through the index. It scored 17.0 out of 100. It was copied from the National Right to Read Foundation web site. One would think they would write well.

 

I have a quick question for you. Why would we support illiteracy? Would we not want to end it?

 

PS: The National Right to Read Foundation permits copying its content as long as it is given credit. No credit was originally given. That means you were not allowed to copy and post it.

[wayout]

Rudolf Flesch was a “plain English” proponent. He developed the Flesch Reading Ease index. I ran the paragraph through the index. It scored 17.0 out of 100. It was copied from the National Right to Read Foundation web site. One would think they would write well.

 

I have a quick question for you. Why would we support illiteracy? Would we not want to end it?

 

PS: The National Right to Read Foundation permits copying its content as long as it is given credit. No credit was originally given. That means you were not allowed to copy and post it.

 

I was intrigued by the Flesch Reading Ease index and looked into it to try to understand some more about it. Here is what I found for how it is determined and the meaning of the score:

 

The Flesch Reading Ease Readability Formula. The specific mathematical formula is: RE = 206.835 – (1.015 x ASL) – (84.6 x ASW)

 

RE = Readability Ease

ASL = Average Sentence Length (i.e., the number of words divided by the number of sentences)

ASW = Average number of syllables per word (i.e., the number of syllables divided by the number of words)

 

The output, i.e., RE is a number ranging from 0 to 100. The higher the number, the easier the text is to read.

 

• Scores between 90.0 and 100.0 are considered easily understandable by an average 5th grader.

• Scores between 60.0 and 70.0 are considered easily understood by 8th and 9th graders.

• Scores between 0.0 and 30.0 are considered easily understood by college graduates.

 

My interpretation is that it does not necessarily define if something was well written but rather it attempts to measure the level of complexity (of sentence structure) that might require higher levels of education to fully understand what was written. I don't think most fairly well educated people would appreciate important and/or complex ideas being written at a 5th grade level (and the same could be said for a 5th grader reading something intended for a college grad). I would be concerned about focusing on text being easier to read as "dumbing down" our society.

 

PS: Not my place to defend FactsPlease, but he does have a link (the word "here" in his original post) to the site where the content was copied from. That may not be the letter of the law for giving credit but the intent appears to have been there.

[+ Charlie]

The Flesch formula was designed to be a very easy way to measure readability, but it is subject to criticism because it is oversimplified. Other academics, such as Jeanne Chall, have tried to refine it by including factors besides number of words and syllables, such as vocabulary difficulty (e.g., 'synergy' has the same number of syllables as 'pineapple,' but it is a lot harder to comprehend, even if it is in a shorter sentence than the latter). Some experts also question the way that Flesch defines sentences and syllables. Government officials who want to make documents for public use more readable often specify the use of the Flesch formula because it is so simple to apply.

[rvwnsd]

The point is that the original essay cites Flesch and then runs roughshod over his philosophy. It is practically unintelligible. I doubt that any English teacher would argue that run-on sentences, multiple prepositional phrases, and several subject/predicate pairs are signs of good writing. I agree that simply-written sentences look choppy. In some cases, one can't write 6-word sentences and convey a complete thought. That said, no sentence should have 30 words.

[+ purplekow]

Tell that to Mr. Lincoln: "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal." 30 words I believe.

[MsGuy]

"That said, no sentence should have 30 words."

 

It's been a long time but I seem to remember that some of Faulkner's sentences ran on forever.

[wayout]

The preamble to the constitution is a single sentence of 52 words. I hope we haven't gotten to the point where our attention span is so short that a sentence, a well written one, with over 30 words is too much of a challenge for us.

[Luv2play]

.

 

Which of course lead me

 

I think you meant "led me". Lead is the present tense, led, the past. This is an error I see often in print. I think people confuse it with "lead" the metal which is pronounced like led as in the verb. Such is the English language, a demanding taskmaster.

 

But these quibbles have nothing to do with illiteracy, just as the use of your when you're is meant. This is just sloppy use of English, a shame but not reflectling an illiterate mind. Believe me, I've met illiterate people and they are a class apart.

 

I worked in Canada's north when I was a student and ran across the first illiterate people in my life. Simple guys who worked in the bush and only had 2 or 3 years of schooling. They signed their names with an X when they received their pay. This was in the 1960's. I think illiteracy is still a big issue in Eastern Canada and Quebec. I don't know about the US but I imagine there are pockets of it in Appalachia and elsewhere.

[Guest socal30]

Well with the changes to the TX curriculum, we may soon have a generation of students who eschew science . One never knows how these things swing. Who knows we may have the Christian madrassas set up all over.

[Guy Fawkes]

I'm so sorry to disappoint you and hopefully I can make it right for you by doing the deed correctly this time.

 

ASSuMEing that it was a pre-programmed banning message was incorrect. it was in fact, an off-the-cuff and flippant remark.

 

It was nice playing with you but...

http://www.zazzle.com/rlv/isapi/designall.dll?action=realview&pdt=shirt&pending=false&pid=235967441459012674&style=basic_sweatshirt&color=grey&size=a_l&context=darren&view=front_a_m_035389&group=mens&lifestyle=classic&lifeStyle=classic&t_templatetext1=They%20don%27t%20pay%20me%20%0Aenough%20to%20be%20nice%20to%20%0Ayou&max_dim=400&bg=0xffffff&drawareaboundingbox=false&drawsafearea=false&square_it=true&draw_relative_size=true&rvtype=product

 

Before you have a hissy fit; His time-out is for one day... People have remarked that I have an odd sense of humor!

[orbital sander]

Daddy,

 

you crack me up...

[+ purplekow]

Does this mean Merlin2 will not be here either?

[instudiocity]

I'm so sorry to disappoint you and hopefully I can make it right for you by doing the deed correctly this time.

 

Before you have a hissy fit; His time-out is for one day... People have remarked that I have an odd sense of humor!

 

Daddy does the deed with great comedy. He's also longsuffering, too. I'd have zapped him a week ago and for more than 1 day!

[MsGuy]

It was in fact, an off-the-cuff and flippant remark.

 

Would you TO me for pointing out that "in fact" above should either have a comma both fore and aft or, in the alternative, no comma at all? If you would, I won't.

http://www.zazzle.com/rlv/isapi/designall.dll?action=realview&pdt=shirt&pending=false&pid=235967441459012674&style=basic_sweatshirt&color=grey&size=a_l&context=darren&view=front_a_m_035389&group=mens&lifestyle=classic&lifeStyle=classic&t_templatetext1=They%20don%27t%20pay%20me%20%0Aenough%20to%20be%20nice%20to%20%0Ayou&max_dim=400&bg=0xffffff&drawareaboundingbox=false&drawsafearea=false&square_it=true&draw_relative_size=true&rvtype=product

 

People have remarked that I have an odd sense of humor!

 

True enough but this particular effort was both funny and appropriate.

[Rick Munroe]

It was nice playing with you but...

 

I hate to join in the spelling bashing, but shouldn't that be "It was nice playing with your butt"? Or were you not talking to me??

[MsGuy]

Shouldn't that be "It was nice playing with your butt"?

 

Well, it certainly would put the whole thrust of Daddy's post in a different light!