+ PhileasFogg Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago Personally, I view the defense as a variation of pleading the fifth. “If I give you this code, I might incriminate myself” Alternatively, without a warrant, the government can search my trash can on the street, but not in my driveway. I understand that the way I “view” this doesn’t impact legal theory or precedent, but there’s barely a shade’s difference to this situation at the core. Wiping the phone prior to entry doesn’t seem to be protected based on the article’s description of the stature + BOZO T CLOWN 1
+ sync Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago If "push came to shove," I would FedEx my phone to my home before going through Customs.
+ SirBillybob Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, PhileasFogg said: Wiping the phone prior to entry doesn’t seem to be protected based on the article’s description of the stature [statute] At what particular point one’s legal duty to not obstruct inspection crystallizes is unclear: airspace, touchdown, the corridor hike to border control? The inspection process is imminent but there is not necessarily a bright line ruling other than broad border authority without the usual probable cause or warrant requirements. Apparently, border officers face-to-face are not required to articulate they are assuming specific legal authority over one particular aspect of your belongings at the point you are told to open your luggage or device. It’s baked into the mandate of overall inspection. So I suppose a prosecution may proceed based on duress wipe that occurred at any point along the way, depending on the circumstances, just as if one tossed an illegal substance into a rubbish bin en route to the staffed inspection area. Yet destruction is distinct from obstruction is distinct from contempt for a lawful order, so it’s easy to get into the weeds here. My advice: What would Rin Tin Tin on the leash think? Edited 8 hours ago by SirBillybob
+ SirBillybob Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 22 minutes ago, sync said: If "push came to shove," I would FedEx my phone to my home before going through Customs. It could end up with the name Wilson.
+ sync Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 1 minute ago, SirBillybob said: It could end up with the name Wilson.
+ SirBillybob Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago (edited) 3 minutes ago, sync said: If you thought you were confused before … Edited 7 hours ago by SirBillybob MikeBiDude 1
+ SirBillybob Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago (edited) 6 hours ago, wsc said: Sorry, don’t know why the quote function popped bold typeface then disappeared, but to the last paragraph points on warrant … The warrant idea speaks to government authority within the border control exceptionality that some find objectionable. However, there exists analytical tension between asserting the right to a warrant’s due process and the owner’s ability to frustrate that process. We cannot know his motives and he probably needed to think fast. If I wanted to take a stand on the procedure, volunteering as tribute so to speak, insisting on a warrant would possibly subvert my claim of a right to irreversibly destroy contents before a search could occur, on the spot using a wipe procedure before the contents could be hacked by authorities with a pin workaround. If I wanted control and to not bank on the action of detonating phone data post-warrant post-confiscation, as well as to challenge the statute, then I would live with the absence of a warrant. That said, I assume that pursuit of a warrant requires probable cause. Otherwise, to the extent that border control inspection is random even within the very small subset examined, thousands of phones with innocuous content would be confiscated upon refusal to unlock them without the warrant step. Similarly, given that a far greater number of locked suitcases are searched, that’s a lot of baggage piled up behind bars in the sobering up tank while waiting for court-executed warrants for owners refusing their contents’ examination. Edited 6 hours ago by SirBillybob
+ BOZO T CLOWN Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago “If a traveler being admitted as a U.S. citizen does not present their device in a condition that allows for examination, the U.S. citizen traveler will not be denied entry into the United States based on CBP’s inability to complete an inspection of their device. However, as noted above, their device may be subject to exclusion, detention, or other appropriate action or disposition.” https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-search-electronic-devices CBP has broad discretion to enforce the nation's laws at all points of entry. Mr. Tunick's smart aleck behavior, giving the proverbial middle finger to law enforcement, may land him in federal prison for a while. BTC 🤡 + Vegas_Millennial 1
+ sync Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 2 hours ago, SirBillybob said: If you thought you were confused before … I resorted to the Urban Dictionary for some clarification of the volleyball with bloody handprint, and it gave me this: Bloody Handprint Share definitionFlag When doggy styling a dirty chick while she's ragging like hell mass producing blood, You rub your hand under her crotch making sure you get an abundance of period sweetness. While she's not paying attention, slap her dirty ass as hard as humanly possible. Respectfully, you have confused me with someone else, that is definitely not my thing. 😝
+ SirBillybob Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago (edited) 32 minutes ago, sync said: Respectfully, you have confused me with someone else, that is definitely not my thing. 😝 Apologies. Neither you nor Tom Hanks, but he arguably owns the scene’s cinematic property rights. Regarding your phone’s contents I’m certain you understand far better than a Luddite like me how to technically remotely store them, later retrieving them at your convenience for your resumed personal use, while in the meantime comfortably submitting an empty device for inspection, as that format is not subject to border examination. But while we are on the subject, I thought that I had to bring my phone on board for fire safety reasons. How does that measure apply to the same device packaged for courier air cargo means of transport if ground postal service does not apply? Obviously, electronic devices are transported in this manner but I believe dangerous goods checks and balances apply. Edited 4 hours ago by SirBillybob + sync 1
+ SirBillybob Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 5 hours ago, PhileasFogg said: … without a warrant, the government can search my trash can on the street, but not in my driveway. You tell them. + PhileasFogg 1
+ PhileasFogg Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, SirBillybob said: You tell them. The point being - possession and dominion is key. But I acknowledge your prior points that we are dealing in shades of grey that remain undefined…until someone advances a theory of law that definitively prevails…
+ SirBillybob Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 37 minutes ago, PhileasFogg said: The point being - possession and dominion is key. But I acknowledge your prior points that we are dealing in shades of grey that remain undefined…until someone advances a theory of law that definitively prevails… Right. It’s legally trying to fit a square-ish shape into a round-ish hole. I’m reminded of Paul Bernardo’s lawyer’s acquittal some 30 years ago on charges of obstruction of justice for having in his possession for some 17 months camcorder snuff material after Bernardo instructed him on where hidden, obviously relevant to the charges but particularly in relation to his partner in homicidal sex crimes Karla Homolka’s plea bargain and ‘turning state’s witness’ as it is termed down your way, absent the tapes subsequent eventual availability. A case of possession not destruction, but it advanced, at the least, a clearer framework on privilege. The jurisdictional law entity in Ontario (at the time Law Society of Upper Canada) to which he was accountable eventually dropped disciplinary charges and focused on contextual framework as well. If I had to predict the American dude’s outcome, I would guess no jail time even if convicted; perhaps a suspended sentence. Clarification for the masses and statute governance taking precedence over a harsher penalty aimed at deterrence. What might also help his case is that I believe a vague suspicion regarding CSAM was verbalized to him or spearheaded the device search, yet it’s likely incontrovertible that there would be no other indicators of such a crime. Edited 2 hours ago by SirBillybob
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