Yikes! So much for visiting Indonesia

[Guest]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/asia/indonesia-new-code-passed-sex-cohabitation-intl-hnk/index.html

"Indonesian lawmakers unanimously passed a sweeping new criminal code on Tuesday that criminalizes sex outside marriage, as part of a tranche of changes that critics say threaten human rights and freedoms in the Southeast Asian country. The new code, which also applies to foreign residents and tourists, bans cohabitation before marriage, apostasy, and provides punishments for insulting the president or expressing views counter to the national ideology... 

Putu Winastra, chairman of the Association of the Indonesian Tour and Travel Agencies (ASITA) in Bali, told CNN the laws would “make foreigners think twice” about visiting Indonesia. “From our point of view as tourism industry players, this law will be very troublesome,” said Putu, who questioned how the laws would be policed. “Should we ask (overseas unmarried couples) if they are married or not? Do tourist couples have to prove that they are married?” he asked. Putu said the laws could be “counterproductive” to any efforts to entice tourists back to the island. “If these laws are really implemented later, tourists might be (subjected) to jail and this will harm tourism,” he said...".

😱

[Danny-Darko]

Will it last? Fundamentalist seldom back down as history has shown us. 😬 They haven't mentioned it yet, but the "Sex Tourism" some countries are known for, has left a bad flavor in the local's mouths, no pun intended. And most locals resent their country being known for this and used by foreigners for these proposes. 

I can't help but remember how an escort here some years back argued on how Indonesia's Muslim Laws didn't affect liberal Bali, and how they wouldn't affect a gay man's resort of some sort he was planning and hoped to build. Maybe not then but in the future maybe I answered as others chimed in to support his theory. The world changes and so do people and places. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63869078

Indonesia's parliament has approved a new criminal code that bans anyone in the country from having extramarital sex and restricts political freedoms.

Sex outside marriage will carry a jail term of up to a year under the new laws, which take effect in three years.

The raft of changes come after a rise in religious conservatism in the Muslim-majority country.

They apply equally to locals and to foreigners living in Indonesia or visiting holiday destinations such as Bali. Under the laws, unmarried couples caught having sex can be jailed for up to a year.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Danny-Darko

[+ Lucky]

As gays increasingly face violence, Russia has added a new law aimed at gays and any positive talk about them. I wonder if their Supreme Court will add to the fire with anti-gay rulings. Indonesia is not alone here.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

The Indonesian law says it can only be reported/enforced by family members verifying an unmarried couple is cohabitating.  So as long as you don't travel to Indonesia with disgruntled family, you're safe at the moment. 😁

[+ DynamicUno]

The new law will take a while to go fully into effect, but if it does then the police almost certainly will use it against vulnerable groups with selective enforcement. 

The rule about only enforcing the law when family members complain could also be used in blackmail schemes. Imagine meeting a local guy in a bar and going off for a hookup, only to be confronted afterward by an angry relative demanding money or they will go to the police.

I'm guessing that there will be a few foreigners who will get prosecuted early on as examples, but the police in the major cities will tend to use it against gays or straight sex workers 

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, DynamicUno said:

The new law will take a while to go fully into effect, but if it does then the police almost certainly will use it against vulnerable groups with selective enforcement. 

The rule about only enforcing the law when family members complain could also be used in blackmail schemes. Imagine meeting a local guy in a bar and going off for a hookup, only to be confronted afterward by an angry relative demanding money or they will go to the police.

I'm guessing that there will be a few foreigners who will get prosecuted early on as examples, but the police in the major cities will tend to use it against gays or straight sex workers 

 

I'm guessing the law would be first enforced by:

1.  Parents who find out their child has had sex and want to punish/disown them.

2.  Wives/Families of Wives who discover the husband has cheated with another woman or man and want to punish him.

[CuriousByNature]

59 minutes ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

I'm guessing the law would be first enforced by:

1.  Parents who find out their child has had sex and want to punish/disown them.

2.  Wives/Families of Wives who discover the husband has cheated with another woman or man and want to punish him.

Or...

3. Husbands who want to strengthen their case for divorcing their wives, regardless of whether the wives have cheated.

[mike carey]

Article in The Australian (no link, paywalled) about Fiji's tourism chief taking hope from this development. The paper posited advertising 'Come to Fiji and be yourself', although didn't indicate if that was their intention or the paper's suggestion.

I've seen recent reporting of J-class award availability through Alaska and American on Fiji Airways, and they are opening YVR as a third North American mainland gateway to add to LAX and SFO. Of course for those of you in that part of the world there are closer tropical getaways and certainly places with an overt gay ambience.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

12 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

Or...

3. Husbands who want to strengthen their case for divorcing their wives, regardless of whether the wives have cheated.

I figured women already don't have any rights under Muslim law, so this law would apply more to men.  You can't take away a right that doesn't exist!

[CuriousByNature]

1 hour ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

I figured women already don't have any rights under Muslim law, so this law would apply more to men.  You can't take away a right that doesn't exist!

I imagine it is very different than here in North America.  I don't think that Indonesia follows strict Sharia law, but I understand that certain provinces are heading towards that direction.

[mike carey]

26 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

I imagine it is very different than here in North America.  I don't think that Indonesia follows strict Sharia law, but I understand that certain provinces are heading towards that direction.

It's really just Aceh.

[pubic_assistance]

My wife and I traveled all over Indonesia with the kids in 2019. We bumped into a few gay men in different places. They all seemed to tell the same story ..that you need to be extremely discreet and then people will look the other way. So... maybe much of this Government pokicy could be trying to keep up a public image when they see countries like the US going to the other extreme with so much representation of alternative sexuality in the media. Even I think it's a bit much at times. Thankfully my kids are teenagers so I don't need to filter what they see anymore. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by pubic_assistance

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

28 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

...So... maybe much of this Government pokicy could be trying to keep up a public image when they see countries like the US going to the other extreme with so much representation of alternative sexuality in the media...

Interesting theory.  I never would have come to that conclusion myself.  But, now that you mention it, that is a very plausible reason.