White Lotus Returns

[Rod Hagen]

On 3/18/2025 at 9:07 AM, BenjaminNicholas said:

True, but it can run out of ideas.  Paging Ryan Murphy.

The difficult thing about writing is that block is real.  There's also the constant fear of having one seismic success and never being able to reach that apex again.

This was the case for a guy like Truman Capote. 

White hit big and hit fast.  I'm sure he felt the pressure to churn it out.  Perhaps he's not the kind of creative who can do that and needs more time in-between projects.

Based on the strength of Enlightened, particularly its second season, I'm willing to cut him some slack.  Plus he's adorable.  Awkward is adorable.

[Peter Eater]

On 3/17/2025 at 10:58 PM, d.anders said:

"One night I took home some girl, turned out to be a Ladyboy, which I'd done before, but this time instead of fucking the Ladyboy, the Ladyboy fucked me...and it was kind of magical."

I'm going to give it to Mike White on this one.

I'm not counting him out yet. He just needs a good rest. Strong talent doesn't die so easily.

This is Sam Rockwell’s supporting actor Emmy win - slam, dunk.

[d.anders]

7 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

I thought that was pretty tame.

It was extremely tame.

7 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

But outrage is In.

For sure, especially the fake kind.

[d.anders]

On 3/18/2025 at 7:27 PM, d.anders said:

Looks like my YouTube video got pulled. Probably a copyright strike.

Now it seems to be back. I never know what to say about these internet mysteries.

[musclestuduws]

Well, I can only imagine how those outraged by a lame kiss must be feeling tonight after the threesome.  🤣 Puritans must be having a collective seizure. 

Edited March 24 by musclestuduws

[d.anders]

I was so hoping the dream sequences of the Ratliff's assassinations were not dreams, but alas, they live for another episode.

So Lochlan bated his older brother while he fucked Chloe. Yes, totally believable.

My favorite line of the episode belongs to Carrie Coon speaking to Leslie Bibb. "Look, I'm not like you. Sometimes I just have to be honest." LOL. If I remember correctly, the actress is paying for Kate's and Laurie's trips. Would friends of a real actress behave this way while being seriously treated to a vacation?

 

[d.anders]

I get that old friendships can have an occasional breakdown, and can make for good drama. Had my share of those while growing up. Some friendships heal and revive stronger than ever, while others fade away forever. I thought in the original Sex in the City they handled these bumps quite effectively with the 4 leads. Here, we're supposed to believe that 2 of the gift recipients willingly behave like teenage high school girls at the age of 50. Usually, by the time you're 50, your best friends are set for life. Making new ones is not easy, and keeping old ones takes work that you're happy to do. The cheapest room in this resort may be $2500 a night. That's $17,500 for a week's stay per friend. That's a serious gift.

Recently, two old friends invited me out to dinner, one for sushi, the other a French bistro. For a $100 meal, I was on my best behavior because that's what a good friend does when he's being treated well and shown generous love by another old friend.

The conflict that White is trying to create with these 3 women seems forced. I'm happy to endure a classic cat fight, I just wish it was more believable.

9 hours ago, musclestuduws said:

Puritans must be having a collective seizure.

I watched a few analysis videos on YouTube after the airing. People seemed creeped out by the incest. They are OK with Lochlan trying to find his sexuality, but they are not happy that he chose his brother. The analysis mentioned this is not the first time HBO tackled incest in a story. It's been done a few times in shows I haven't seen.

Viewers seem to be speculating whether Lochlan actually swallowed the pill, suggesting he wanted his brother fucked up so that he could take advantage of him. Not a bad plot twist, but I doubt we're getting that deep with Mike White on a series that is almost done and moves like a snail.

[+ Snbrd]

Too slow moving. What a letdown after F. Murray Abraham, Michael Imperioli and Jenifer Coolidge last season. The "cliffhanger" episode endings are cheesy. It seems the shark jumped early with this vehicle. 

[+ ApexNomad]

Based on a review I had read before the start of the season, shit was supposed to hit the fan with episode 6. Well, episode 6 came and went. Still waiting…

[musclestuduws]

13 hours ago, d.anders said:

I get that old friendships can have an occasional breakdown, and can make for good drama. Had my share of those while growing up. Some friendships heal and revive stronger than ever, while others fade away forever. I thought in the original Sex in the City they handled these bumps quite effectively with the 4 leads. Here, we're supposed to believe that 2 of the gift recipients willingly behave like teenage high school girls at the age of 50. Usually, by the time you're 50, your best friends are set for life. Making new ones is not easy, and keeping old ones takes work that you're happy to do. The cheapest room in this resort may be $2500 a night. That's $17,500 for a week's stay per friend. That's a serious gift.

Recently, two old friends invited me out to dinner, one for sushi, the other a French bistro. For a $100 meal, I was on my best behavior because that's what a good friend does when he's being treated well and shown generous love by another old friend.

The conflict that White is trying to create with these 3 women seems forced. I'm happy to endure a classic cat fight, I just wish it was more believable.

I watched a few analysis videos on YouTube after the airing. People seemed creeped out by the incest. They are OK with Lochlan trying to find his sexuality, but they are not happy that he chose his brother. The analysis mentioned this is not the first time HBO tackled incest in a story. It's been done a few times in shows I haven't seen.

Viewers seem to be speculating whether Lochlan actually swallowed the pill, suggesting he wanted his brother fucked up so that he could take advantage of him. Not a bad plot twist, but I doubt we're getting that deep with Mike White on a series that is almost done and moves like a snail.

I have met at least five guys who told me their first gay sexual experience was with a brother. It’s way more common that people make it to be. And in some cases, not just masturbation. People need to get real and stop being so damn puritanical. Or rather, hypocritical. Real life and sexuality are inexplicably messy. 

[Danny-Darko]

1 hour ago, musclestuduws said:

I have met at least five guys who told me their first gay sexual experience was with a brother. It’s way more common that people make it to be. And in some cases, not just masturbation. People need to get real and stop being so damn puritanical. Or rather, hypocritical. Real life and sexuality are inexplicably messy. 

Agree. I've heard it too. And if not a brother, a cousin. And about half that told me weren't gay or bi either! It was just hormones and experimentation at an age (puberty-early teens) and in places where nobody else (guys or other girls) were available for sex. They saw it as no big deal. I had no brother or close cousins, so I found it hard to imagine the first time I was told. But then I kept hearing it from others. Same as Circle-Jerks. So many straight guys I've known had Circle Jerks with their buddies. I never saw or heard of them from any of the guys while I was growing up. But years later I found it to be a common thing or even a kind of rite of passage! Straight guys commonly admit they jacked off with buddies, cousins or brothers to their dad's porn mags they found in the basement or attic or to parent's porn movies they found. Yeah, it may be "taboo" but it happens. Back in my days any kind of sex outside of marriage was taboo!  

[d.anders]

Of course a lot of sexual experimentation exists, and a lot of it is kept secret. I have my own secrets. Most of mine occurred during puberty, between ages 9 through 13. I doubt you could get away with those stories on HBO.

Experimenting among siblings at an older age probably makes people feel more uncomfortable.

8 hours ago, musclestuduws said:

People need to get real and stop being so damn puritanical.

Most people don't want to be told what to do.

Edited March 25 by d.anders

[d.anders]

As an open-minded viewer, I'm open to anything, especially if it involves male actors getting naked. What I hated about Mike White's choice to go incest, he had to go fake, mostly because it's HBO.

If Lochlan was fucking Chloe, and jacking off his brother at the same time, there is no way Saxon's hard-on action is going to be under a sheet. Ridiculous. For me, this was an eye-roll moment. Gratuitous for the sake of shock.

[Rod Hagen]

4 hours ago, d.anders said:

As an open-minded viewer, I'm open to anything, especially if it involves male actors getting naked. What I hated about Mike White's choice to go incest, he had to go fake, mostly because it's HBO.

If Lochlan was fucking Chloe, and jacking off his brother at the same time, there is no way Saxon's hard-on action is going to be under a sheet. Ridiculous. For me, this was an eye-roll moment. Gratuitous for the sake of shock.

But you said it yourself, it's TV, you're watching a show on TV.  They can show dicks, they can't show hard dicks on cable.  They barely every even show them on streaming, and I can only think of maybe 5 films in total I've seen that showed naked erections.  Not Realistic, but they are constrained by what will be allowed, and a PeeWee-from-Porkey's shaped boner underneath the sheet actually is itself pretty edgy, for cable. 

[d.anders]

1 hour ago, Rod Hagen said:

it's TV, you're watching a show on TV.  They can show dicks, they can't show hard dicks on cable.  They barely every even show them on streaming, and I can only think of maybe 5 films in total I've seen that showed naked erections.  Not Realistic, but they are constrained by what will be allowed, and a PeeWee-from-Porkey's shaped boner underneath the sheet actually is itself pretty edgy, for cable.

Yes, all what you wrote is correct. Except, HBO/MAX is Pay-TV. They do not permit accounts from minors.

American culture is fucked. They have no problem showing men and women holding guns to their heads and shooting their brains all over everything. But put a man or woman's hand around an erect penis, and look out! The wrath of holy hell be upon you. Demented, perverted, and hypocritical thinking, if you ask me.

In story telling, these "sex" decisions are up to the creators. They decide how far they will go to be "honest" in their telling of the story. In Season 1, Mike White had no problem putting Murray Bartlett's face into Lukas Gage's ass crack. We all believed that happened. In Season 3, White made the decision to show erect penis under sheets, knowing it would be a serious compromise, and dishonest. To me, this is lazy story telling. Sure, it gets clicks, but not in a positive way. Was it really impossible to come up with some other activity that is more believable, and equally compelling?

[musclestuduws]

6 hours ago, d.anders said:

Most people don't want to be told what to do.

Right, because we all know this is the land of the “free.” 🙄🤣

[d.anders]

6 hours ago, musclestuduws said:

Right, because we all know this is the land of the “free.”

And the land where honest, reasonable debate can no longer happen. Very unfortunate, indeed.

[+ ApexNomad]

7 hours ago, d.anders said:

Yes, all what you wrote is correct. Except, HBO/MAX is Pay-TV. They do not permit accounts from minors.

American culture is fucked. They have no problem showing men and women holding guns to their heads and shooting their brains all over everything. But put a man or woman's hand around an erect penis, and look out! The wrath of holy hell be upon you. Demented, perverted, and hypocritical thinking, if you ask me.

In story telling, these "sex" decisions are up to the creators. They decide how far they will go to be "honest" in their telling of the story. In Season 1, Mike White had no problem putting Murray Bartlett's face into Lukas Gage's ass crack. We all believed that happened. In Season 3, White made the decision to show erect penis under sheets, knowing it would be a serious compromise, and dishonest. To me, this is lazy story telling. Sure, it gets clicks, but not in a positive way. Was it really impossible to come up with some other activity that is more believable, and equally compelling?

It’s HBO, not internet porn. Prolonged shots of an erect penis would trigger censorship issues. HBO isn’t governed by the same rules as network TV, but it’s still not an adult film studio. There’s a difference between being provocative and crossing into explicit territory that limits distribution.

[d.anders]

1 hour ago, ApexNomad said:

Prolonged shots of an erect penis would trigger censorship issues.

As much as everyone here would probably enjoy seeing an erect penis on one of the Ratliff sons, I don't think anyone was advocating for using an exposed erect penis, prosthetic or not. The point I was trying to make was about Mike White making honest, believable sex choices in film. We're adults here. We understand what TV can and cannot do at this point in time.

Furthermore, I don't know what the definition of porn is anymore. These days, it is not uncommon to see male actors kissing, licking, sucking erect female nipples in legit film, as Walter Goggins did to Aimee Lou Wood a few episodes ago. I don't know what the lines are, and I expect with time, the lines are subject to change.

[+ ApexNomad]

35 minutes ago, d.anders said:

As much as everyone here would probably enjoy seeing an erect penis on one of the Ratliff sons, I don't think anyone was advocating for using an exposed erect penis, prosthetic or not. The point I was trying to make was about Mike White making honest, believable sex choices in film. We're adults here. We understand what TV can and cannot do at this point in time.

Furthermore, I don't know what the definition of porn is anymore. These days, it is not uncommon to see male actors kissing, licking, sucking erect female nipples in legit film, as Walter Goggins did to Aimee Lou Wood a few episodes ago. I don't know what the lines are, and I expect with time, the lines are subject to change.

The sex scene you’re referencing is the one where Lochlan is jerking off Saxon, and the issue lies with the actions under the sheets. To make it believable, what would you have preferred? Removing the sheet? That brings us right back to the issue of showing an erect penis. I’m not a director, but perhaps they could have used a shot where the sheet is lowered to indicate full exposure without actually showing it. Would that have been more believable? Unless, of course, you were expecting penetrative sex, which could have been handled like Leo Woodall’s scene in Season 2. Regardless, for this storyline, I don’t need to see it. I’m not interested in watching two brothers in that kind of situation. I get it. Whatever creative choices Mike White makes to get his point across, I trust I’ll understand the narrative without needing the explicit details.

Male-to-female sex scenes, like the one you described with Goggins and Wood, have always been and will continue to be handled differently than two men in the same situation. That’s been the reality since the dawn of time.

[jeezifonly]

Hasn’t White successfully used blurred POV as a signature device? Bear with me…
 

As shown, we see Saxon beating beneath the sheet while watching the sex -  but then we see the sheet move aside, more  leg exposed (meatless) and cut to a red/flesh drug hazed rhythmic bate-speed blur of motion overlapping
Saxon POV watching them fuck, making direct eye contact w/ Locky, just as he comes (no meat) but motion blur stops, framed toe curl, guttural sound…

Closeup breathless Saxon wtf face

Cross to overhead - Saxon with bare flank and leg (meatless) heavy breathing legs twitching. On left, Locky and Chloe pounding. Then we see an arm moving across frame to the left, and we see Lochlan clench into Chloe just as he brings his fingers to his mouth. 
Meatless, but just as satisfying. 
🍆 😂

[d.anders]

16 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

The sex scene you’re referencing is the one where Lochlan is jerking off Saxon, and the issue lies with the actions under the sheets. To make it believable, what would you have preferred?

Anything that could reasonably pass as honest, real, and not something that looks like it passed muster from a room full of lawyers.

16 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Unless, of course, you were expecting penetrative sex, which could have been handled like Leo Woodall’s scene in Season 2. Regardless, for this storyline, I don’t need to see it. I’m not interested in watching two brothers in that kind of situation.

Again, what I expected from MIke White, after 2 very successful seasons, is better writing, even where dialogue doesn't exist. Personally, I would not have gone the incest route. I don't need to see it. But if you're going to have the balls to go there, don't try to pawn off a cheap shot on your loyal gay viewers.

Edited March 26 by d.anders

[Becket]

Yea the whole season seems like a big tease for the gay audience. The other two seasons were far better, IMHO. Jennifer Coolige (sic) is very much missed. Too bad they killed her off. 

[d.anders]

3 hours ago, Becket said:

Jennifer Coolige (sic) is very much missed. Too bad they killed her off. 

If there is one character who could have appeared in every season, galloping from one White Lotus to another, with endless, insane stories of a madcap life, and a line of gay boy-toys fluttering her around like a swarm of butterflies, it's Tanya McQuoid.

I don't know how easy or difficult is is to work with Jennifer Coolidge, but had this been my show, I never would have let her go. She was just too special a character, and they don't come around that often.

Edited March 26 by d.anders

[musclestuduws]

On 3/25/2025 at 8:34 PM, d.anders said:

And the land where honest, reasonable debate can no longer happen. Very unfortunate, indeed.

Your initial snide retort was a very good example of how reasonable, intelligent debate is not something you are capable of. Funny because it shows you are the one unable to accept and handle a difference of opinion. Typical of puritans who profess to speak from a higher ground.