Have you ever made an escort sign an NDA?

[coriolis888]

Speaking of Non disclosure agreements, two years ago, there was quite of lot of chatter in the news about outing Lindsey Graham for his being gay while the senator repeatedly called for laws that hurt the gay community.  He also, supposedly, was mean to many "escorts" he hired or ghosted from rentmen.

Speaking of non disclosure agreement and Senator Lindsey Graham - - - - - 

He has never married and has lived with the same male "roommate" for decades.  

According to various news reports, he has used "non disclose agreements" with most of the escorts he hired from rentmen. 

In the end, it seems not to matter to his constituents that such a hateful gay homophobe continues to be reelected by those who keep him in office.  He is on his third term as senator for South Carolina.  

Check out this two-year old news article that discusses escorts from rentment possibly getting together to embarrass the hypocritical senator. 

https://www.fitsnews.com/2020/06/05/is-lindsey-graham-about-to-have-a-problem/

Edited September 28, 2022 by coriolis888
spelling

[coriolis888]

5 hours ago, sam.fitzpatrick said:

If the NDA is well written, it is enforceable, regardless if sexual activity occurs.  One way to cover it is to include in the NDA the legal escorting activities planned for the period of hire.    

 

 

Sorry, regardless of how "well written" the contract is, it would be easy to confirm or verify the intent of the escort and likely find graphic rentmen advertisements or similar type advertisements (including erect penis shots) or other proof of the escort's activities. 

The escort could admit to the court that he is an escort and show proof of ads and other documents confirming his activities. 

The NDA agreement would then be discarded by the court. 

The fact that the paid meeting includes prostitution, given the background of the escort, even though that word is omitted from the contract, the contract is unenforceable.  

Edited September 28, 2022 by coriolis888

[Cooper]

Administrator’s Message:

Gentlemen, Please keep politics out of the Lounge. If you wish to do so, start a new thread in the Political Issues Forum. 

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[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

9 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

Sorry, regardless of how "well written" the contract is, it would be easy to confirm or verify the intent of the escort and likely find graphic rentmen advertisements or similar type advertisements (including erect penis shots) or other proof of the escort's activities. 

The escort could admit to the court that he is an escort and show proof of ads and other documents confirming his activities. 

The NDA agreement would then be discarded by the court. 

The fact that the paid meeting includes prostitution, given the background of the escort, even though that word is omitted from the contract, the contract is unenforceable.  

We’re going to continue to disagree on this one.  

[BonVivant]

If you ever need to fall back onto the NDA the relationship has gone south and all secrets will be litigated.  All are SOL at that point. Better for all to be gentlemen and stick to the ethics and honor the deal. 

[Bucky]

14 hours ago, BonVivant said:

Gosh. I am really curious now. 

 

On 9/26/2022 at 5:12 PM, Luv2play said:

I was with an escort this past weekend who spilled the beans on an international musician whose name is globally recognized. 

One obvious guess would be initials RM, the sexy, aging Puerto Rican.  

[Rudynate]

14 hours ago, Lucky said:

Not much to hide? Hmm...

Careful - don't overthink - you want to preserve those precious brain cells.

[BonVivant]

1 hour ago, Bucky said:

 

One obvious guess would be initials RM, the sexy, aging Puerto Rican.  

Hmm. True true. Could be. I am fantasizing of one with initials HS…  🥵

[former lurker]

19 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

Sorry, regardless of how "well written" the contract is, it would be easy to confirm or verify the intent of the escort and likely find graphic rentmen advertisements or similar type advertisements (including erect penis shots) or other proof of the escort's activities. 

The escort could admit to the court that he is an escort and show proof of ads and other documents confirming his activities. 

The NDA agreement would then be discarded by the court. 

The fact that the paid meeting includes prostitution, given the background of the escort, even though that word is omitted from the contract, the contract is unenforceable.  

You are confusing the illegality of the meeting with the legality of the NDA.  The NDA arrangement is not itself illegal or against public policy.  Unless it is being used to preclude giving evidence of a crime being prosecuted, it would be enforced. 

[coriolis888]

19 minutes ago, former lurker said:

You are confusing the illegality of the meeting with the legality of the NDA.  The NDA arrangement is not itself illegal or against public policy.  Unless it is being used to preclude giving evidence of a crime being prosecuted, it would be enforced. 

Sorry, you missed the point.  

The NDA is, in itself, unenforceable because the purpose of the NDA is to conceal and protect the fact that prostitution occurred.  That makes the agreement invalid.  

[former lurker]

Just now, coriolis888 said:

Sorry, you missed the point.  

The NDA is, in itself, unenforceable because the purpose of the NDA is to conceal and protect the fact that prostitution occurred.  That makes the agreement invalid.  

Not true.  The typical NDA, even in an escort situation,  covers more than the fact of the meeting and any sexual activity.  More broadly it protects confidential information and against reputational harm.  They are generally enforced unless there is a need for the information for a criminal prosecution.  This is not a situation where the agreement is itself for an illegal arrangement (such as a contract to pay x dollars for y sexual services). 

[+ ThroatCummer]

... mind if I step in here as the CEO of an actual corporation?  👀

You all have the entire concept of a NDA wrong. Signing a NDA with someone over a meeting and/or sexual acts is completely meaningless. So what? They break it? What are you going to sue them for what, $5k, $20k? Ha. Okay, then what?  

Stormy Daniels signed a NDA and look at her bank account today. She's doing quite well. 

True NDAs are meant to protect trade secrets, intellectual property, or the magic "sauce" -- that's where the enforceable component has true value. If you are on the Board of Directors of one of my competitors, and I want to fuck you, we might sign a NDA.

Then after I blow my load in you, perhaps I am so happy in that moment I happen to tell you about my next project that involves tech that will replace Facebook or has better battery tech than Tesla. Now, you turn that information into something and build a company to compete against us -- then we will use that NDA and get hundreds of millions or billions out of you. Forever. 

For sex -- or meeting someone -- or anything that isn't worth tens of millions in an eventual lawsuit? It's not worth the ink on the paper. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by ThroatCummer

[coriolis888]

5 minutes ago, ThroatCummer said:

I snipped most of your post except for the last line.

For sex -- or just meeting someone? It's not worth the ink on the paper. 

Exactly, that is the psychological basis (of a NDA agreement) some clients think will protect them from being outed.  Not enforceable - period.  

The other issues you mentioned are generally not included in the countless NDA agreements some high profile clients have escorts sign when they engage them for sex.  

Facts equal prostitution which makes the agreement unenforceable.  

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

15 minutes ago, ThroatCummer said:

True NDAs are meant to protect trade secrets, intellectual property, or the magic "sauce" -- that's where the enforceable component has true value. 

I know of several personal NDAs that would also cover things that a corporate environment would consider protected under HIPAA.  

[+ ThroatCummer]

45 minutes ago, sam.fitzpatrick said:

I know of several personal NDAs that would also cover things that a corporate environment would consider protected under HIPAA.  

Potato, potato. Show me a single instance where any person (not entity) was made to pay a settlement over any HIPAA violation, ever.

Hold that thought. Is there truly any entity (corporation) that has been made to pay any meaningful settlement over a HIPAA violation? If so, who was the recipient of the settlement and funds? 

HIPAA is all bark and no bite. Hint: There's no HIPAA police.  

[+ jrhoutex]

36 minutes ago, ThroatCummer said:

Potato, potato. Show me a single instance where any person (not entity) was made to pay a settlement over any HIPAA violation, ever.

Hold that thought. Is there truly any entity (corporation) that has been made to pay any meaningful settlement over a HIPAA violation? If so, who was the recipient of the settlement and funds? 

HIPAA is all bark and no bite. Hint: There's no HIPAA police.  

Here is a link to a site that identifies HIPPA Violation Cases from 2008 - Aug 2022.  https://www.hipaajournal.com/hipaa-violation-cases/

Most involve entities primarily because that's how most practice medicine.  However, there are a few instances when individual doctors were sued and settled HIPPA cases with the Department of Health and Human Services' Office of Civil Rights (OCR).  

Lawrence Bell, Jr. D.D.S

Lawrence Bell, Jr. D.D.S in Maryland failed to provide a patient with timely access to the requested medical records. OCR settled the case for $5,000.

Dr. Brockley

The solo dental practitioner in Butler, PA, failed to provide a patient with a copy of their medical record in a timely manner. After being notified by OCR about a proposed fine of $105,000, Dr. Brockley requested a hearing with an Administrative Law Judge, but settled out of court and agreed to a fine of $30,000.

Dr. Robert Glaser

Dr. Robert Glaser, a New Hyde Park, NY-based cardiovascular disease and internal medicine doctor, failed to provide a patient with timely access to the requested medical records after repeated requests. Dr. Glazer did not cooperate with OCR during the investigation, resulting in OCR imposing a civil monetary penalty of $100,000 for the HIPAA Right of Access violation. 

Dr. Rajendra Bhayani

OCR received a complaint from a patient of Dr. Rajendra Bhayani, a Regal Park, NY-based private practitioner specializing in otolaryngology, alleging he had not provided a patient with a copy of her medical records. OCR intervened and closed the case but received a second complaint a year later alleging the records had still not been provided. The case was settled for $15,000.

Steven A. Porter, M.D

Steven A. Porter, M.D’s gastroenterological practice in Ogden, UT reported a breach to OCR involving a medical record company that was blocking access to patients’ ePHI until a bill was paid. OCR investigated and found the EHR company had been allowed access to ePHI without signing a business associate agreement and risk analysis and risk management failures. The case was settled for $100,000. 

[+ ThroatCummer]

Ok. You win. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by ThroatCummer

[Walker1]

Nobody would care if the escort spills the beans. Most of my circle know I am gay. Escorts I am discreet-but I don't think any of them would care. Plus it is not like I am married with a wife etc?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Walker1

[Quincy_7]

How does the analysis change in a jurisdiction such as the UK where prostitution is not illegal?

[+ ThroatCummer]

4 hours ago, Quincy_7 said:

How does the analysis change in a jurisdiction such as the UK where prostitution is not illegal?

NDA is the same regardless of industry or even its legality. Doesn't matter if legal or not, or you're selling ice cream cones or a kilo of coke. It really only carries weight when the threat of suing carries a 7, 8, 9, or even 10 figure payout. Like I said above, signing a NDA over a personal matter like escorting, doesn't mean much in general. It's all about the ramifications of breaking it, and unless you can sue someone for $50M -- or you're the one with the $50M to lose, then it's not worth the paper written on.  Again: See Stormy Daniels. 

[Quincy_7]

16 hours ago, ThroatCummer said:

NDA is the same regardless of industry or even its legality. Doesn't matter if legal or not, or you're selling ice cream cones or a kilo of coke. It really only carries weight when the threat of suing carries a 7, 8, 9, or even 10 figure payout. Like I said above, signing a NDA over a personal matter like escorting, doesn't mean much in general. It's all about the ramifications of breaking it, and unless you can sue someone for $50M -- or you're the one with the $50M to lose, then it's not worth the paper written on.  Again: See Stormy Daniels. 

It would then be a matter of including an indemnity and/or penalty provision in an NDA.

Let's say the escort signs an NDA with a 100K penalty in the event of breach, the client could lien any assets the escort has and maybe even garnish any employment income of the escort (if the escort has a day job). This is all assuming that both parties are in a jurisdiction where prostitution is not illegal.

[coriolis888]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:33 PM, former lurker said:

Not true.  The typical NDA, even in an escort situation,  covers more than the fact of the meeting and any sexual activity.  More broadly it protects confidential information and against reputational harm.  They are generally enforced unless there is a need for the information for a criminal prosecution.  This is not a situation where the agreement is itself for an illegal arrangement (such as a contract to pay x dollars for y sexual services). 

 

The illegal prostitution plus the client's status in society likely motivated the NDA. 

However, the prostitution act makes the the NDA invalid. 

This also makes the other issues you mentioned irrelevant. 

What "confidential information" would the escort know about the client except there was prostitution involved between the two of them?

"Reputational harm" would be worse for the client if the client pursued legal action against the escort and the escort defended himself and told what occurred between the two.  

If a client were to attempt to sue the escort, do you think the escort would keep quiet about the prostitution that occurred?  The escort would put up a defense if sued.  The defense could be more damaging to the reputation of the client.

How many escorts have sufficient assets to be sued for breaching an NDA agreement even if the agreement were legal?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by coriolis888

[former lurker]

19 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

 

The illegal prostitution plus the client's status in society likely motivated the NDA. 

However, the prostitution act makes the the NDA invalid. 

This also makes the other issues you mentioned irrelevant. 

What "confidential information" would the escort know about the client except there was prostitution involved between the two of them?

"Reputational harm" would be worse for the client if the client pursued legal action against the escort and the escort defended himself and told what occurred between the two.  

If a client were to attempt to sue the escort, do you think the escort would keep quiet about the prostitution that occurred?  The escort would put up a defense if sued.  The defense could be more damaging to the reputation of the client.

How many escorts have sufficient assets to be sued for breaching an NDA agreement even if the agreement were legal?

 

 

You consistently (and incorrectly) insist that the NDA wouldn't be enforceable because it relates to prostitution. Now you're answering other purposes of an NDA by saying they can only be about prostitution and therefore render an NDA unenforceable.  Your well-phrased "we all know" argument isn't evidence, facially or otherwise.  A contract to perform an illegal act is not the same as one to maintain confidences that, if violated, might lead to revealing an illegal act.  For example, a contract to pay $10K to someone for killing your spouse, etc, is on it's face unenforceable.  In that situation, an NDA is irrelevant it's the contract to kill that is unenforceable.

As for escort's resources, that may not be decisive.  A "tell all" book could both bestow financial resources and be the target of a suit to enforce the NDA (the relief sought may be a bar to publication rather than money damages).

I sense we are going in circles.  We've all had our say.  I'm not sure more commentary will do anything productive but I suppose you or someone else could say something that causes me to respond. 

 

[coriolis888]

1 hour ago, former lurker said:

You consistently (and incorrectly) insist that the NDA wouldn't be enforceable because it relates to prostitution. Now you're answering other purposes of an NDA by saying they can only be about prostitution and therefore render an NDA unenforceable.  Your well-phrased "we all know" argument isn't evidence, facially or otherwise.  A contract to perform an illegal act is not the same as one to maintain confidences that, if violated, might lead to revealing an illegal act.  For example, a contract to pay $10K to someone for killing your spouse, etc, is on it's face unenforceable.  In that situation, an NDA is irrelevant it's the contract to kill that is unenforceable.

As for escort's resources, that may not be decisive.  A "tell all" book could both bestow financial resources and be the target of a suit to enforce the NDA (the relief sought may be a bar to publication rather than money damages).

I sense we are going in circles.  We've all had our say.  I'm not sure more commentary will do anything productive but I suppose you or someone else could say something that causes me to respond. 

 

It does not matter that you interject other issues with regard to an NDA.

Plain and simple, it is obvious that the true motivation for an NDA, when prostitution is involved, is to conceal the fact that prostitution occurs. 

In the case of escorts and clients, if the person who asked for the NDA was not involved in prostitution, there likely would be no request for an NDA.

To interject the other issues you mentioned for the NDA ignores the true reason that  motivated the NDA (to conceal prostitution).

By the way, what happened with the NDA of the senator, "Lady G" when certain  escorts decided to do a "tell-all" because of the callous treatment they received from Lady G? 

Reportedly, the issue was never litigated and the escorts involved allegedly were given a handsome fee to drop their intended disclosures. 

If a NDA that included prostitution were truly valid, as you insist, that NDA would not have been quietly brought to a monetary conclusion as it was.    

Edited October 4, 2022 by coriolis888

[former lurker]

2 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

It does not matter that you interject other issues with regard to an NDA.

Plain and simple, it is obvious that the true motivation for an NDA, when prostitution is involved, is to conceal the fact that prostitution occurs. 

In the case of escorts and clients, if the person who asked for the NDA was not involved in prostitution, there likely would be no request for an NDA.

To interject the other issues you mentioned for the NDA ignores the true reason that  motivated the NDA (to conceal prostitution).

By the way, what happened with the NDA of the senator, "Lady G" when certain  escorts decided to do a "tell-all" because of the callous treatment they received from Lady G? 

Reportedly, the issue was never litigated and the escorts involved allegedly were given a handsome fee to drop their intended disclosures. 

If a NDA that included prostitution were truly valid, as you insist, that NDA would not have been quietly brought to a monetary conclusion as it was.    

No, it's not "obvious" until the NDA is pierced.  Beyond that, most corporate NDA's are part of settlement/separation agreements.  A fair portion of those seek to keep allegations of sexual harassment and related details from being disclosed.  They are routinely enforced, even though there is generally more collateral evidence of an improper purpose for the NDA (payments made to the person who sign the NDA.  The "everybody knows" argument isn't evidence.  To get the evidence to nullify the NDA you first have to nullify the NDA. Not gonna happen absent a criminal inquiry into the hirer.