What’s the appeal of the biggest cities for many providers?

[Jarrod_Uncut]

By biggest, I refer to those with oft mentioned names: Chicago, Los Angeles, San Fran, DC, Atlanta, NYC. 
 

Having traveled over 10 years and seen most of all the “big player” cities, sometimes I can’t understand why those are the ones always most popular with providers. To me, it often means more choices potential clients (aka competition) and paying more to be there.

Often times, when I do the math and add it all up: I can usually do the same amount or more in a less popular town. However, those areas may be more prone to “dry up” intermittently versus the steady traffic of the bigger markets. At the same time, with so many new ads popping up in the bigger areas…there’s not a whole lot of opportunity to stand out. And with standing out, there may be something I want to do that’s different than what the locals are used to. But if lots of clients can just easily reach lots of other providers, that’s a false sense of opportunity to me. 
 

Nowadays, I only do big cities when I have family or friends also in that town. Otherwise it turns into a lot of waiting around for calls being bored. And the worst is the hotels. Unless you’re paying $200-250 a night, many of the “affordable” (which right now seems to be like $80-100) hotels in bigger cities tend to be either way out of the city or in a dingy area of town. And to me, few to non hotels are really so nice that I’m going to drop an entire appointment’s worth for a night…

Even in my home state of Florida, I’ve long avoided Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and now even Orlando to an extent since I moved, because everybody is there. Meanwhile, the smaller towns have gotten me some of the best clients. But accordingly, it requires a bit of commuting to reach them.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Kevin Slater]

To invoke Willie Sutton: cuz that's where the money is.

That being said, I know some guys who do perfectly well specifically playing to the second-tier cities.  That's one great thing about this job: you get to decide how to play it.

Kevin Slater

[Jarrod_Uncut]

10 hours ago, Kevin Slater said:

To invoke Willie Sutton: cuz that's where the money is.

That being said, I know some guys who do perfectly well specifically playing to the second-tier cities.  That's one great thing about this job: you get to decide how to play it.

Kevin Slater

To an extent that’s true, but I’ve also come across “the money” outside of the main cities.

Of course, I don’t necessarily mean “small market” cities. Those aren’t always great either because they don’t really get the traffic and visibility or can be overly conservative. I refer more to places that have their own economy not in the shadows of bigger cities. Texas is like that: there’s Amarillo and El Paso,  but they are quiet because Dallas and Houston is where every escort and their grandmother is posted up. But it’s harder to do biz when there’s 50 million other guys trying to reach the same couple of clients 🤦🏽‍♂️ 

I find places that stand on their own, far from the crowded bigger cities seem to be more relaxed and productive to me. 

What I’m also noticing is: the downtowns of big cities seem to be where the “career minded gays” live and play, but they tend to go on Grindr and look for someone to fuck for free type of meets. That’s why I don’t spend extra getting a hotel downtown or gay neighborhood because I end up paying more and not getting any extra bookings. I did that in Seattle, only because I did have 1 client downtown, but it was more of a vacation day for myself and the hotel was a boutique type I wanted to check out. 

Even in my local market of Kansas City: All the guys advertise in Kansas City, but most of the action comes from a business park suburb outside of town. It’s cheaper than KC proper and more clients either reside there or are in town on business. 
 

I was in San Francisco 5 days all weekend, and even though I got enough bookings, I was starting to get a little annoyed. I couldn’t stay at the hotels I wanted to because they were too expensive (my friend spent $1,200 at a residence inn to stay 5 days in an adjacent neighborhood not even in San Francisco proper). Then, I was only getting like 1 booking request a day. I been in smaller cities this year, and my phone was blowing up.
 

And on my last night there, someone called me just after 11 pm. I was available ALL day for a client. I went to my car for 5 minutes to grab something, never seen the missed call until this morning 🤦🏽‍♂️ Guy didn’t bother to text/leave voicemail nothing. I got in touch the following morning and of course, he wasn’t available.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

And then on top of everything else, comes the added work of transportation when visiting those cities. What you don’t spend on parking and $6 a gallon gas, you spend on Uber and transit. I spent $22 to park in a garage for 4 hours in downtown San Fran. That’s a nightly charge at a hotel. And my friends almost paid $100 to get from Castro to Berkeley in a Lyft, but I offered to take them out of my way because that woulda been ridiculous. 
 

Then there’s the excess traffic that often surrounds the bigger cities. It’s not unusual to lose 2-4 hours trying to get into/out of the whole metro area if traveling across during the peak of the day. I think that also has an indirect effect on clients being able to coordinate bookings.

[Guest]

I'm with ya, Jarrod. I've been really busy in and had a great time touring some of Canada's mid-size cities... so what Americans might call "villages" or "hamlets". 

In all seriousness though, the money is very much there in these places. I think you're absolutely right that more favourable client - escort ratios can be found. My suspicion is that for a variety of reasons, having resident escorts is a feature of metropolises. Demographics are also a factor. A city may have x people but how many are of prime hiring age (middle aged to recently retired) and have plenty of disposable income left after their living expenses? 

This is all anecdote and speculation, obviously, and everyone's gonna have a different niche - but what makes me so confident in agreeing with you here is the feedback that I get in these smaller towns. People are just stoked to have quality escorts visit. Not only is that a great indication for future business, it's just really satisfying to hear

So here's hoping I get to discover many more humble hometowns in my career. And if anyone's touring Canada and wants some recs just let me know. 

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

1 hour ago, DanteV said:

I'm with ya, Jarrod. I've been really busy in and had a great time touring some of Canada's mid-size cities... so what Americans might call "villages" or "hamlets". 

In all seriousness though, the money is very much there in these places. I think you're absolutely right that more favourable client - escort ratios can be found. My suspicion is that for a variety of reasons, having resident escorts is a feature of metropolises. Demographics are also a factor. A city may have x people but how many are of prime hiring age (middle aged to recently retired) and have plenty of disposable income left after their living expenses? 

This is all anecdote and speculation, obviously, and everyone's gonna have a different niche - but what makes me so confident in agreeing with you here is the feedback that I get in these smaller towns. People are just stoked to have quality escorts visit. Not only is that a great indication for future business, it's just really satisfying to hear

So here's hoping I get to discover many more humble hometowns in my career. And if anyone's touring Canada and wants some recs just let me know. 

 

 

 

Right! Glad you have understood it.

The problem is, America’s “policies” are so simple and basic for such a hedonistic country…they won’t formally accept it to where people won’t be freaked out if a cop car passes by, at the same time the provider is scheduled to show. And it’s sad because there is still disposable income in smaller towns. Those people also don’t have access to gay culture or have retired from it due to health/family/financial reasons. 

I have relatives who live in small podunk towns. Those guys are driving around in $60,000/$80,000 trucks. They can surely afford $300 (even though I’m aware material possessions don’t necessarily equate to someone having access to disposable cash). 

The tricky part is finding which small market is really going to play out. Like I say, they aren’t all equal. University and agricultural cities (just ask how horse 🐎 hung, horny goat 🐐, and “stud” all come from 😆  tend to fare better than industrial or military towns. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[italianboyph]

It's not always big cities that do great.  I find that some cities def have and look for a certain type of look/guy.  

[Jarrod_Uncut]

I’m likely going to be cutting most of my big city travel going forward and only dealing with limited markets with deposits. I wanted to do one good big tour now that the west coast cities have fully reopened, but I wish I would have done more travel during the pandemic when things were cheaper and more people were off work.

The main issue lately is, too many “clients” lying too much. I can’t be bothered traveling places, and being exposed to more and more liars and bullshitters. Who has time for that shit? Lot of this seems to occur in the city markets.

I was brainstorming on joining the guys in Palm Springs this year, but to pull that trip off right now, I would need to spend above and beyond what I did even in San Francisco where I just came from (hotels have lost their minds and are trying to regain for their losses)…without a guarantee of securing SERIOUS clients over the course of the week. And considering the ratio of fake/real bookings, I didn’t want to take the chance. 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Rudynate]

On 4/5/2022 at 1:59 PM, Jarrod_Uncut said:

By biggest, I refer to those with oft mentioned names: Chicago, Los Angeles, San Fran, DC, Atlanta, NYC. 
 

Having traveled over 10 years and seen most of all the “big player” cities, sometimes I can’t understand why those are the ones always most popular with providers. To me, it often means more choices potential clients (aka competition) and paying more to be there.

Often times, when I do the math and add it all up: I can usually do the same amount or more in a less popular town. However, those areas may be more prone to “dry up” intermittently versus the steady traffic of the bigger markets. At the same time, with so many new ads popping up in the bigger areas…there’s not a whole lot of opportunity to stand out. And with standing out, there may be something I want to do that’s different than what the locals are used to. But if lots of clients can just easily reach lots of other providers, that’s a false sense of opportunity to me. 
 

Nowadays, I only do big cities when I have family or friends also in that town. Otherwise it turns into a lot of waiting around for calls being bored. And the worst is the hotels. Unless you’re paying $200-250 a night, many of the “affordable” (which right now seems to be like $80-100) hotels in bigger cities tend to be either way out of the city or in a dingy area of town. And to me, few to non hotels are really so nice that I’m going to drop an entire appointment’s worth for a night…

Even in my home state of Florida, I’ve long avoided Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and now even Orlando to an extent since I moved, because everybody is there. Meanwhile, the smaller towns have gotten me some of the best clients. But accordingly, it requires a bit of commuting to reach them.

I wonder if San Francisco isn't a weird market for traveling escorts.  One would think that one of the world's gay-friendliest cities would be all gravy for a visiting escort.   Most guys that I have interacted with find San Francisco a disappointment business-wise.  They enjoy themselves while they are here but they aren't particularly busy while they are here.   That, coupled with the fact that San Francisco is one of North America's most expensive cities make it a bad proposition.  But I can also think of 2 providers that I have had ongoing relationships with who tell me that they always do well here.   Go figure.  I don't have an answer for why that would be. 

I think there is more competition here than there used to be.  One thing I have noticed, that I find an annoyance, but I guess I understand it, is that a lot of visiting providers advertise themselves as being local when they are, in fact, only going to be here for a few days.   That may be a clue to success in a quirky market like SF.

[maninsoma]

San Francisco must still work for some traveling escorts since some guys seem to visit here for a few days to a week every few months. 

I think that being a successful traveling escort makes sense for a guy who is able to connect with clients in a way that they want to hire them again when they return to their area.  If clients have a "one and done" attitude towards someone they hired, then with each visit to a particular area the escort has a smaller pool of potential clients.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:20 AM, Rudynate said:

I wonder if San Francisco isn't a weird market for traveling escorts.  One would think that one of the world's gay-friendliest cities would be all gravy for a visiting escort.   Most guys that I have interacted with find San Francisco a disappointment business-wise.  They enjoy themselves while they are here but they aren't particularly busy while they are here.   That, coupled with the fact that San Francisco is one of North America's most expensive cities make it a bad proposition.  But I can also think of 2 providers that I have had ongoing relationships with who tell me that they always do well here.   Go figure.  I don't have an answer for why that would be. 

I think there is more competition here than there used to be.  One thing I have noticed, that I find an annoyance, but I guess I understand it, is that a lot of visiting providers advertise themselves as being local when they are, in fact, only going to be here for a few days.   That may be a clue to success in a quirky market like SF.

 

On 4/9/2022 at 7:21 AM, maninsoma said:

San Francisco must still work for some traveling escorts since some guys seem to visit here for a few days to a week every few months. 

I think that being a successful traveling escort makes sense for a guy who is able to connect with clients in a way that they want to hire them again when they return to their area.  If clients have a "one and done" attitude towards someone they hired, then with each visit to a particular area the escort has a smaller pool of potential clients.

Hello 👋🏽 to both of you as SF locals. Thanks for the input. I must say: I been going to San Francisco since maybe 2013-14ish. Last week was my 4th trip to the area. Each trip is always a little different than the previous. This one was different because I had friends from out of town, and one who was local who knew the area as well.

Don’t get me wrong (and I don’t want to get anyone else wrong) but San Francisco (and even Oakland/SJ) does still have a good pool of clients. In fact, ALL of my clients this trip came from outer lying areas. I didn’t meet any San Francisco city clients this time. Which was weird and uncommon. But then again, it was a weekend trip so maybe the locals go away. 

At the same time there is a lot more providers there, and there is a huge lack of affordable hotels. I recall my first trip: I landed a room by the Marina in Alameda for $36/night on 3rd party app. Even though I have elite membership and points with 3 chains, AND Marriott friends and family rate…it was still not easy finding something reasonable in the city. And they weren’t even all THAT expensive like graduation week in DC or even Palm Springs for that matter. But, it was still enough to staying for 5 days and only getting booking once a day on 3 of those days, interfered with some things I wanted to do. I was expecting at least 2 or 3 more bookings out if it. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Another example of small town action: I stopped over in a rural area east of Utah the other night, and came across an older, tatted daddy/muscle bottom type who reached out to me in one of the small towns I bunked up for the night. 

He wasn’t much further than a walk across the next hotel parking lot from me, and we were the only 2 on the block. Made for an easy hookup, but the caveat was: We met on the apps but I couldn’t convert him to a paid client. But that’s the downside  of the small rural town: it’s nearly impossible to get someone to pay for *** even if they like you. And sometimes it’s a choice between a quiet night of no clients, or making lemonade out of 🍋 lol.
 

That said; I will also advise that sometimes: a smaller market could work out for 1 trip, and then completely fail on the next (especially when scheduled  in close range). Had that last week: I was super busy in one medium sized market earlier in March, but then I went back thru this month and couldn’t get any repeats or newbies to pan out. I ended up just staying for 1 night at a hotel that I only got to use for 12 hours, then left the city at 5 p.m. (I’m so fatigued and burnt out with hotels and how they make us pay TWICE just to get a full 24 hours out of it).

In fact, I ended up having to travel between San Francisco to Denver having had 0 real clients along the way. Yet on the way to Seattle from Denver, I had a record breaking good streak.

But It really hit my resources hard not having bookings on the way back, As I often use small markets to help “boost” my tour. Which is why I dislike flying, because it doesn’t give opportunity to stop at places along the way. But to have that occur, was nothing short of dismaying. Especially when I had potential bookings that flaked. Exactly why I’m changing up the way I do things going forward.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[BuffaloKyle]

12 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Another example of small town action: I stopped over in a rural area east of Utah the other night, and came across an older, tatted daddy/muscle bottom type who reached out to me in one of the small towns I bunked up for the night. 

He wasn’t much further than a walk across the next hotel parking lot from me, and we were the only 2 on the block. Made for an easy hookup, but the caveat was: We met on the apps but I couldn’t convert him to a paid client. But that’s the downside  of the small rural town: it’s nearly impossible to get someone to pay for *** even if they like you. And sometimes it’s a choice between a quiet night of no clients, or making lemonade out of 🍋 lol.
 

That said; I will also advise that sometimes: a smaller market could work out for 1 trip, and then completely fail on the next (especially when scheduled  in close range). Had that last week: I was super busy in one medium sized market earlier in March, but then I went back thru this month and couldn’t get any repeats or newbies to pan out. I ended up just staying for 1 night at a hotel that I only got to use for 12 hours, then left the city at 5 p.m. (I’m so fatigued and burnt out with hotels and how they make us pay TWICE just to get a full 24 hours out of it).

In fact, I ended up having to travel between San Francisco to Denver having had 0 real clients along the way. Yet on the way to Seattle from Denver, I had a record breaking good streak.

But It really hit my resources hard not having bookings on the way back, As I often use small markets to help “boost” my tour. Which is why I dislike flying, because it doesn’t give opportunity to stop at places along the way. But to have that occur, was nothing short of dismaying. Especially when I had potential bookings that flaked. Exactly why I’m changing up the way I do things going forward.

Reading your post made me think that in the case of big cities there are so many free options for guys on hookup apps that they don't have to hire too. In smaller cities guys are usually willing to pay for a fresh sexy provider as the shelfs can be pretty bare. In my case Buffalo is a decent sized town but having used the hookup sites for almost 20 years now I have pretty much seen and talked to all there is. It's been the same guys on there for years and years.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:20 AM, Rudynate said:

One thing I have noticed, that I find an annoyance, but I guess I understand it, is that a lot of visiting providers advertise themselves as being local when they are, in fact, only going to be here for a few days.   That may be a clue to success in a quirky market like SF.

I actually wanted to also re-quote your post specifically here. I can’t  speak for why other guys may advertise how they do, but I do recall years ago I met a guy who I hit it off with who was visiting: but didn’t have any travel dates posted in his profile.

But I can almost surmise why some may do it, and I’m actually leaning towards doing the same myself. For one, the way travel dates are allowed to be listed in ads doesn’t give a whole lot of flexibility. Combine that with people: potential clients seeing travel dates and formulating assumptions about our lives and plans without even consulting us: it can make for some very irritating situations.

Some people don’t have enough common sense to realize that travel dates in an escort ad isn’t a airline ticket. I often times have extended or modified my plans in a city to where I have flexibility to stay for an extra day or 2. Or I may put last day being “4/12” which means “I’m here all day” but that doesn’t mean a client should say, “Well I was hoping to meet you, but I see you’re leaving today.” 🤦🏽‍♂️ 

It’s ignorant stuff like that, which is encouraging me to keep my travel plans secret, or posted for a longer window of time than anticipated. But even with that, people will still find a reason to get it backwards. It’s like, just request the fucking appointment. If I’m going to not be here, I will fucking tell them I won’t be here. Idk why some go out of their way to be annoying and daft.

23 hours ago, BuffaloKyle said:

Reading your post made me think that in the case of big cities there are so many free options for guys on hookup apps that they don't have to hire too. In smaller cities guys are usually willing to pay for a fresh sexy provider as the shelfs can be pretty bare. In my case Buffalo is a decent sized town but having used the hookup sites for almost 20 years now I have pretty much seen and talked to all there is. It's been the same guys on there for years and years.

Oh yes, the infamous plateau. And if it doesn’t make it any better, sometimes the same guys from 20 years ago are still contacting with the same picture from 20 years ago 🤦🏽‍♂️ 
 

I’m surprised Buffalo hasn’t become an adjacent alternative to NYC like San Fran/LA are or Dallas/Houston. Maybe if they changed the name to “New Manhattan”, it would explode lol.

[Rudynate]

I grew up in that part of New York State - it's a wasteland.  I'm sure things have changed some but I lived in Rochester in the late 80's.  It was like a small-town scene from the 70s  - the gay community was pretty affluent and very clubby -  everybody knew everybody else - it was mostly couples who were into their houses and the big thing was to go out to a particular restaurant on Friday night for fish fry.  If you were looking for any excitement, you went to Boston or NYC or Toronto.    I got in the habit of going to Toronto nearly every weekend.

I believe Buffalo was much the same way.  There was a restaurant in Buffalo gay guys used to frequent called Lord Chumley's.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Rudynate
typo

[BuffaloKyle]

Yeah @Rudynate that is how it is in Buffalo when you said how the gay community knows everyone. I would be doing hookups with guys online and if the topic came up about other guys we had met online and hooked up with there would always be at least one guy it seems we both had met up with. So everyone knows everyone. Can be very weird. I'd be getting messages from guys then saying I heard you did so and so with someone. Too much drama! But as far as the overall vibe of Buffalo we are definitely on the upswing in terms of revitalization. The population has started to grow for the first time in a long time. There always seems to be new companies moving in. They don't want to go to NYC anymore. Lower rent costs here and if they allow workers to do some work at home they don't need to be in NYC then. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by BuffaloKyle

[Rudynate]

58 minutes ago, BuffaloKyle said:

Yeah @Rudynate that is how it is in Buffalo when you said how the gay community knows everyone. I would be doing hookups with guys online and if the topic came up about other guys we had met online and hooked up with there would always be at least one guy it seems we both had met up with. So everyone knows everyone. Can be very weird. I'd be getting messages from guys then saying I heard you did so and so with someone. Too much drama! But as far as the overall vibe of Buffalo we are definitely on the upswing in terms of revitalization. The population has started to grow for the first time in a long time. There always seems to be new companies moving in. They don't want to go to NYC anymore. Lower rent costs here and if they allow workers to do some work at home they don't need to be in NYC then. 

That's great to hear.  Buffalo was an amazing city at one time.  In the late 19th century it was one of the most affluent cities in the country.  When I was a little kid, my father used to have to goto Buffalo on errands for his job sometimes and he would take me with him.  It was still a big, lively bustling city then.