400 Million Free N95 Masks

[Todd Jenkins]

1 minute ago, FrankR said:

My wearing a mask, custs down the number of droplets that will reach your eyes. You are welcome. 

 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[pubic_assistance]

1 minute ago, FrankR said:

My wearing a mask, custs down the number of droplets that will reach your eyes.

Correct

[+ FrankR]

7 minutes ago, Todd Jenkins said:

We want to start on CLIMATE CHANGE?! Bahahaha! They've been saying this for how many years!?!?!?! Honey, don't try to make your argument valid by bringing up climate change. 🙄

You’re missing my point. Deliberately, I think. So be it. 🤷‍♂️

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Moderator Reminder:  This thread is about the distribution of N95 masks and not a debate about the effectiveness of various mask strategies.  Please remain on topic.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Todd Jenkins said:

And there is also research that says anything but an N95 is useless.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/do-masks-actually-work-the-best-studies-suggest-they-don-t/ar-AANfurl 

 

3 hours ago, Todd Jenkins said:

More Research:

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

 

It looks as though you may not have read the articles you quoted carefully. The articles did not say N95's work better. They clearly said that they work the same, but have very little, if any, benefit:

 

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

“A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

"Conclusion Regarding That Masks Do Not Work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit."

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Todd Jenkins said:

N95's work. Others don't. Guess how many people are wearing N95's? NOT MANY! 
try again!

???? So you just made reference to numerous carefully conducted studies which proved N95's are not better than surgical masks, and all you have to say is "Yes, they are! So There!"??? Isn't that rather infantile behavior?

[+ FreshFluff]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:49 PM, Unicorn said:

N95 masks need to be fitted professionally (a hood is put on, bitter scents puffed into the hood, various sizes tried until no scent detected) in order for them to be perform as expected. The straps of the professional masks should go around the head, not around the ears. Mostly needed if working with people who have tuberculosis (probably for anthrax, though that's extremely rare). No point in torturing yourself with unfitted N95's. Essentially 100% of the virus in most places (certainly in the US) at this time is of the omicron strain, so the only point is to protect the unvaccinated in any case. Even if it were true that N95's do better than surgical masks at preventing Covid-19 transmission, why torture yourself?

What do you think of this matrix, which was published widely a few weeks ago? Of course, the assumption is that the conditions under which the N95 amd surgical/cloth masks were tested are similar. 

FWIW, I find the KF94s with adjustable straps as comfortable as surgical masks. The N95s with wings and quality straps aren’t bad either. 
 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, FreshFluff said:

What do you think of this matrix, which was published widely a few weeks ago? Of course, the assumption is that the conditions under which the N95 amd surgical/cloth masks were tested are similar. 

FWIW, I find the KF94s with adjustable straps as comfortable as surgical masks. The N95s with wings and quality straps aren’t bad either. 
 

Well, the sources from this table seem deliberately vague "...a study by Lindsley et al..." (not referencing the actual article or journal). Without even looking at the studies, one sees immediately that the data from the various types of masks is taken from multiple studies, using different methodologies, so it's disingenuous at best to present them side to side in a table. That being said, I was able to find the Lindsley study (though they didn't make it easy):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33619500/

As you can see, these studies were not studies on transmission in the real world, but rather studies on the theoretical efficiency of the masks for given particle sizes:

This is not a method which will tell one whether one mask will work better than the other in real life. The ONLY way to tell whether a mask works better than another is to do a randomized controlled trial. This means you take a high-risk group (such as hospital personnel), randomize them to one form of mask or the other, and keep all other personal protective equipment and behavior the same. Those studies have been done, multiple times, and they all come to the same conclusion: N95's perform no better than surgical masks. 

(Another point is that the above study does not appear to have been peer-reviewed, whereas all of the studies published from the randomized controlled studies were peer-reviewed)

As for Brosseau's article, it didn't even use any laboratory experimentation, but was a purely theoretical construct:

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/65/1/53/5895199?login=true

Digging into this even deeper, Dr. Brosseau herself requested that the article be retracted because people were coming up with incorrect conclusions in referencing that article!!

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

Edited February 14, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ Lucky]

@Unicorn, it seems you are spending your whole retirement either posting about COVID or posting pix of guys. I feel bad for "Chris." Spend some time with him!

[+ FreshFluff]

On 2/14/2022 at 11:52 AM, Unicorn said:

Well, the sources from this table seem deliberately vague "...a study by Lindsley et al..." (not referencing the actual article or journal). Without even looking at the studies, one sees immediately that the data from the various types of masks is taken from multiple studies, using different methodologies, so it's disingenuous at best to present them side to side in a table. That being said, I was able to find the Lindsley study (though they didn't make it easy):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33619500/

As you can see, these studies were not studies on transmission in the real world, but rather studies on the theoretical efficiency of the masks for given particle sizes:

This is not a method which will tell one whether one mask will work better than the other in real life. The ONLY way to tell whether a mask works better than another is to do a randomized controlled trial. This means you take a high-risk group (such as hospital personnel), randomize them to one form of mask or the other, and keep all other personal protective equipment and behavior the same. Those studies have been done, multiple times, and they all come to the same conclusion: N95's perform no better than surgical masks. 

(Another point is that the above study does not appear to have been peer-reviewed, whereas all of the studies published from the randomized controlled studies were peer-reviewed)

As for Brosseau's article, it didn't even use any laboratory experimentation, but was a purely theoretical construct:

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/65/1/53/5895199?login=true

Digging into this even deeper, Dr. Brosseau herself requested that the article be retracted because people were coming up with incorrect conclusions in referencing that article!!

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

I saw that surgical/cloth and N95 rates came from different studies. That’s why I asked whether the moethods were similar if not the same. Given that N95s are plentiful and relatively comfortable, I don’t require strong  evidence to choose N95s over surgical masks.
 

Thanks for the summary of each of the papers cited. I hadn’t known that Broussard asked for a retraction. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by FreshFluff

[Guest]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:07 PM, FreshFluff said:

I saw that surgical/cloth and N95 rates came from different studies. That’s why I asked whether the moethods were similar if not the same. Given that N95s are plentiful and relatively comfortable, I don’t require strong  evidence to choose N95s over surgical masks. towards N95. 
 

Thanks for the summary of each of the papers cited. I hadn’t known that Broussard asked for a retraction. 

I've looked at life from both sides now
From win and lose and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all

Nothing wrong, of course, with using N95's if they're just as comfortable and no more costly! 🙂 Try to recall life's realities, too! You'll know life better! 😄

[Guest]

On 2/14/2022 at 2:18 PM, Lucky said:

@Unicorn, it seems you are spending your whole retirement either posting about COVID or posting pix of guys. I feel bad for "Chris." Spend some time with him!

Oh, we're having an absolutely wonderful time together! We had a fabulous Valentine's Day dinner last night, where he told me he's never been happier (me too!). And on Sunday, we had a marvelous lunch at another member's house, then went to a big Superbowl party at the house of a neighbor's 6 doors down. 25+ people and not a mask in sight. Most of the handsome men were wearing only jock straps! 😋

[jeezifonly]

I found three added to my bag at CVS. Good ones

[+ augustus]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:53 PM, mike carey said:

chemist's or chemist shop are the usual terms

Does that mean they mix the drugs up themselves in the back?

[mike carey]

2 minutes ago, augustus said:

Does that mean they mix the drugs up themselves in the back?

Not at the standard retail outlet, although there used to be some that they did (more common with ointments than drugs taken by mouth). There are businesses called 'compounding chemists' that do that.

[+ FreshFluff]

21 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Nothing wrong, of course, with using N95's if they're just as comfortable and no more costly! 🙂 Try to recall life's realities, too! You'll know life better! 😄

I said “relatively comfortable.” I said nothing about cost, though I bought 50 VFlexes for about $45. They’ll last for quite a while. 

For those who find N95s too uncomfortable, KF94s with adjustable loops feel about the same as surgical masks with the straps crossed. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, FreshFluff said:

I said “relatively comfortable.” I said nothing about cost, though I bought 50 VFlexes for about $45. They’ll last for quite a while. 

For those who find N95s too uncomfortable, KF94s with adjustable loops feel about the same as surgical masks with the straps crossed. 

Well, I envy anyone who can wear the N95's for any more than a short period of time. We got fitted for them at work, and I'd wear one when going into a room of someone suspected (or known to) be carrying tuberculosis. When I'd come out of the room, the inside of the mask was covered in sweat. They're torture for me.