Is there something wrong/immoral about hiring? My thoughts...and yours

[Merboy]

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong or immoral with it. I think as long as its between two grown consenting adults, it's nobody's business but their own.

 

I actually think since sex is part of what makes a human healthy, it's perfectly natural for companionship and intimacy to be a service just like any other.

 

I do have to say that I'm speaking of men (hiring and providing) in general here.

 

I do not believe that the government has any business regulating the private matters between two consenting adults. Period.

 

As far as morality is concerned... lol. All of our "moral authorities" have proven themselves completely unworthy of being any authority about morality at all. It's a personal matter and we all have our own values.

 

I'm curious as to what your views are about it. Has anyone dealt with any shame, no matter how small, over the decision to hire or provide and how have you dealt with that?

[+ FrankR]

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong or immoral with it. I think as long as its between two grown consenting adults, it's nobody's business but their own.

 

I actually think since sex is part of what makes a human healthy, it's perfectly natural for companionship and intimacy to be a service just like any other.

 

I do have to say that I'm speaking of men (hiring and providing) in general here.

 

I do not believe that the government has any business regulating the private matters between two consenting adults. Period.

 

As far as morality is concerned... lol. All of our "moral authorities" have proven themselves completely unworthy of being any authority about morality at all. It's a personal matter and we all have our own values.

 

I'm curious as to what your views are about it. Has anyone dealt with any shame, no matter how small, over the decision to hire or provide and how have you dealt with that?

You are, of course, entitled to your beliefs. And since I share those beliefs you won’t get any arguments from me. I can’t recall ever feeling shame about my choice to spend time with providers.

 

I do sometimes think that decriminalizing or even regulating would improve working conditions for providers and I am all for that. My 2c.

[jtwalker]

As a country, I think we in the US need to stop telling each other what to do. Whatever happened to minding ones own business?

[+ keroscenefire]

No, I think there is nothing wrong with spending time with escorts from a moral perspective. To me morality should be based on how your actions effect other people. As long as you are two consenting adults, there is nothing harmful about the relationship between an escort and his client.

 

I think potentially it could be morally harmful if it effects your relationships with others. Like if your loved-ones would be ashamed or hurt if they found out you were engaged in this hobby since many in society consider it "wrong." This is why I really do my best to keep this entire thing to be my business only. I really don't discuss this with any friends or family at all except of course on the forum. But others may not have loved-ones that would care as much about this.

 

I do think you need to watch out for issues of consent and there certainly could be human trafficking issues in escorting. But if you are careful and thoughtful about this hobby, there is really nothing morally wrong with it at all.

Edited January 9, 2021 by keroscenefire

[Guest davebk]

I lean pretty libertarian, so in general I agree with you. But I do think there is some nuance to the idea of prostitution laws. Even as a libertarian leaning guy, I think that some laws which are designed to protect the vulnerable are good. I'll use a parallel, albeit very different example. I have no issue with credit cards, even though they often trap people into significant debt issues and challenges. I think there is a sense of personal responsibility and people make their own decisions. However, I don't have a problem with laws that prohibit predatory lending and things like payday loans which take people who are in very difficult situations - often with limited intellectual abilities or with no other options - and put them in even worse situations in life. So I think in that case, there is some reason to enforce laws which protect the vulnerable.

 

I think in the escorting world, what we (mostly, but not always) see here is providers who are generally squared away, making decisions, protecting themselves, and freely making the choice to enter this kind of work. But given the recent forum that linked to porn stars' mug shots, it really got me thinking about the idea of the damage that unfettered prostitution might bring to certain people who are more desperate and vulnerable, and lead to a different kind of life. Or to women who have other addictions or life situations leading them to a place of desperation where prostitution leads them to a world of other things that put them in danger, abuse, or a cycle of addiction that might ultimately be bad for them. I'd like to be able to say "let them do what they want and be responsible for their own lives" but I think that might actually be in some way irresponsible of us as a society in not protecting them. Perhaps there is a way to do that without further laws, but I think that in some cases, laws preventing prostitution might actually be something that protects people who are vulnerable without any other societal resource or safety net from making their lives worse. I don't have a hardline answer, but I think it is worth considering.

 

The reality is that most people engaged is prostitution are not doing so from NYC loft apartments with a door man the client has to awkwardly walk past.

[cany10011]

Several of my friends, gay and straight, know that I engage in this hobby. A few are quite interested in it and always want to know all the details of my experiences. I feel it's good that I don't have to lie or hide it from them.

[wsc]

I began using the services of professionals when I was no longer attracted to men in my own age group. I knew what I wanted in a man's appearance and was willing to pay to get it. At least I'm deep enough to know I'm shallow, to paraphrase Niles to Fraser.

 

The morality, or lack of it, lay in the way the partners treat and consider each other; as humans deserving of respect and consideration, or as pieces of meat or furniture, or as ATMs with feet.

 

And as regards legality, why is it illegal to sell that which one can give away for free?

 

It seems times are changing, but the gears grind slowly.

[OrBlanc]

I've felt more "shame" from Grindr hookups than I ever have with a provider, I'm not sure what their perspective of the situation is, but from my seat is has always been at the very least friendly and satifsying, while on the other hand there's always this dirty feeling of nothingness to an anonymous hookup that just makes it overall pretty awful.

[down_to_business]

I don't consider it immoral but it isn't any sense of pride for me either. The experience itself that I have with the escort also helps my thoughts on this subject (i.e. a good experience makes me feel better about it and the opposite as well).

 

I agree that decriminalization would improve this for all.

[jawjateck]

Immoral? Nay. Words that might describe this hobby.....spiritual, divine, charismatic, charitable, soul-satisfying, cleansing.....practically a church service. ?

[marylander1940]

Several of my friends, gay and straight, know that I engage in this hobby. A few are quite interested in it and always want to know all the details of my experiences. I feel it's good that I don't have to lie or hide it from them.

 

me too!

 

If legalized I'm sure more men and women (straight and gay) will do it because it would be risk free.

[marylander1940]

I've felt more "shame" from Grindr hookups than I ever have with a provider, I'm not sure what their perspective of the situation is, but from my seat is has always been at the very least friendly and satifsying, while on the other hand there's always this dirty feeling of nothingness to an anonymous hookup that just makes it overall pretty awful.

 

Why do you still hookup on Grindr?

 

have you thought about having a date first?

[bostonman]

A little over a year ago, I was dealing with some awful anxiety issues (since diagnosed and very under control, thank god), but when my one "regular" was passing through town around that time, we met - not for sex, but just because I felt I could use some cuddling and a sympathetic ear. He was so incredibly helpful to me that day (I wrote about this out here when it happened), and that day really made an impression on me. So much so that I wound up sharing the story with some close friends and colleagues that had already been unbelievably supportive of my odd sudden struggles. I can't say that anyone was more than maybe a bit surprised/amused by my admission that I was seeing a male escort - but no one moralized or was turned off by it. In fact, one very close colleague/friend went on to tell me that one of his colleagues also escorted - and in sharing my story with a few of my closer college students that I trusted (they were all looking out for me too, which was so unbelievably helpful) one of them actually told me that HE did escort work. (whoa!)

 

So not only did my honest (if daring) need to share all of this not backfire, it did actually make me feel better about hiring - as no one seemed to be judging me about it at all.

 

BTW - most daring of all perhaps, one of the people I told all of this too was my mom. (!!) Now, you have to understand- my parents are very liberal and act much younger than their age - and were accepting and supportive when I came out at 17. But still, to tell one's mom that you've been hiring escorts? But you know what? She just laughed and said something like "well, I wondered how you've been taking care of things lately" lol. I even wonld up sending her a face pic of the escort in question - she approved. ?

 

So, it's not like I proudly wave a "john" flag lol (and to be honest, I'm not a habitual hire-r - I windowshop more than I hire), but revealing this to some people I trusted, and not getting any judgement about it, was really cool. And after all, it's the "oldest profession" for a reason - who knows how many people I know have indeed been either providers or clients? And why not?

[CuriousByNature]

A little over a year ago, I was dealing with some awful anxiety issues (since diagnosed and very under control, thank god), but when my one "regular" was passing through town around that time, we met - not for sex, but just because I felt I could use some cuddling and a sympathetic ear. He was so incredibly helpful to me that day (I wrote about this out here when it happened), and that day really made an impression on me. So much so that I wound up sharing the story with some close friends and colleagues that had already been unbelievably supportive of my odd sudden struggles. I can't say that anyone was more than maybe a bit surprised/amused by my admission that I was seeing a male escort - but no one moralized or was turned off by it. In fact, one very close colleague/friend went on to tell me that one of his colleagues also escorted - and in sharing my story with a few of my closer college students that I trusted (they were all looking out for me too, which was so unbelievably helpful) one of them actually told me that HE did escort work. (whoa!)

 

So not only did my honest (if daring) need to share all of this not backfire, it did actually make me feel better about hiring - as no one seemed to be judging me about it at all.

 

BTW - most daring of all perhaps, one of the people I told all of this too was my mom. (!!) Now, you have to understand- my parents are very liberal and act much younger than their age - and were accepting and supportive when I came out at 17. But still, to tell one's mom that you've been hiring escorts? But you know what? She just laughed and said something like "well, I wondered how you've been taking care of things lately" lol. I even wonld up sending her a face pic of the escort in question - she approved. ?

 

So, it's not like I proudly wave a "john" flag lol (and to be honest, I'm not a habitual hire-r - I windowshop more than I hire), but revealing this to some people I trusted, and not getting any judgement about it, was really cool. And after all, it's the "oldest profession" for a reason - who knows how many people I know have indeed been either providers or clients? And why not?

While I have not met with any providers myself, I believe your post raises a very important consideration that often gets overlooked. The transaction that takes place is for the provider's time, and it need not result in a sexual encounter.

[bostonman]

While I have not met with any providers myself, I believe your post raises a very important consideration that often gets overlooked. The transaction that takes place is for the provider's time, and it need not result in a sexual encounter.

 

Yes - that is a good point.

 

He did offer me a massage that day, which was great and also very calming. We were also able to meet a few months later when I was feeling better, and then we were more intimate, which was very nice. But we've also met twice during the pandemic, just to talk and have dinner at my place, etc - and he only charged me for one of those sessions. I don't doubt, if he travels here again before things are safer, that we might easily have another meetup like that. He's become a great friend.

[OrBlanc]

Why do you still hookup on Grindr?

 

have you thought about having a date first?

 

Well I simply don't date currently, have little space in my life to devote to an emotional relationship and have no desire to have one, but do crave sex from time to time and during a lot of 2020, whatever can pass for "regulars" were not in my area and I did not find anyone to my taste, so I found hookups to fulfill the cravings, now I'm experimenting with a couple of guys who could potentially become repeat providers, precisely because I found hookups not fullfilling.

[+ WilliamM]

No, I think there is nothing wrong with spending time with escorts from a moral perspective. To me morality should be based on how your actions effect other people. As long as you are two consenting adults, there is nothing harmful about the relationship between an escort and his client.

 

I think a potentially way it could be morally harmful is if it effects your relationships with others. Like if your loved-ones would be ashamed or hurt if they found out you were engaged in this hobby since many in society consider it "wrong." This is why I really do my best to keep this entire thing to be my business only. I really don't discuss this with any friends or family at all except of course on the forum. But others may not have loved-ones that would care as much about this.

 

 

 

Concerning the last paragraph above. I did talk to six or seven friends about hiring. Mixed response. My closest friends were fine, especially the most sexually active.

 

My closest female friend at work equated hiring with the worst aspects of sexual abuse. Married couple: the wife was very supportive: the husband saw it a huge moral failing.

 

Frankly, I am very glad I talked about it openly, as bad as it was occasionally.

[+ keroscenefire]

Concerning the last paragraph above. I did talk to six or seven friends about hiring. Mixed response. My closest friends were fine, especially the most sexually active.

 

My closest female friend at work equated hiring with the worst aspects of sexual abuse. Married couple: the wife was very supportive: the husband saw it a huge moral failing.

 

Frankly, I am very glad I talked about it openly, as bad as it was occasionally.

 

I have talked about it with a very small number of people...really only like 3-4 friends/lovers. I know that members of my family would not be accepting of it, so I just keep that part to myself.

[JayCeeKy]

Morality is usually defined as the rightness or wrongness (goodness or badness) of an act. It always involves a person's values. Certainly, there are various degrees of rightness and wrongness. Some acts are plainly wrong e.g. killing for no reason. Some acts fall into a gray area - there are shades of good and bad. Paying for sex is not "good" in many value systems (esp religious) even though many who practice religion also engage in prostitution (usually as buyers). Does any "good" come from prostitution? Some rely on it for sustenance. Others who have no other outlets have their lusts satisfied (what the church calls "the remedy for concupiscence"). Does bad ever come from prostitution? Some connect drugs to it; others say it is demeaning and cheapens sex. I personally would say that the morality of hiring depends on several contexts that only the individual can determine. I doubt that it led to the fall of Rome as some have speculated, but I also believe that stable, monogamous relationships stabilize a society. From a religious standpoint, I am personally hoping that God (should She exist) will take into account whether one was a caring, honest, giving person rather than whether he paid to get his rocks off. It didn't seem to bother his Son who used to hang around with prostitutes and found them closer to the Father than the so-called religious folks.

Edited January 9, 2021 by JayCeeKy

[bostonman]

what the church calls "the relief of concupiscence"

 

That sounds like a commercial slogan, a la "the heartbreak of psoriasis" lol. Credit the chruch for making it sound so awful...

[cmennow]

I think to each his own. I engage because I am looking for a certain type of man. It takes the frustration out of "searching and dating" I can skp across the madness and get right down to business. I don't have to play games with guys that are not who they say they are (aside from the catfish games that come with this). I have one confidant that I can share the ups and downs of it with and that works for me.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

In the state I live in (NSW) in Australia, sex work in legalised. Brothels are legalised, there are certain provisos about not working within so many meters of a school or church.

 

We even have unhappy customers ringing 000 our 911 to complain about what they perceive as poor service.

 

Over the years I have met many fine men who provide this service, and have no issue with the morality of what they are doing, and what I am doing by taking advantage of the service they offer.

 

Consenting adults and all that, and no harm comes from either the provider or the client.

 

However I do see thru my job in law enforcement, the other side of the sex industry, the trafficked illegal immigrants, the pimps who take their passports and make them service 20 guys a shift, etc etc etc. That is immoral.

 

I Ike the attitude of the Thai people, it is honorable to work the sex trade, many of them send money home to their villages and it supports their family.

[Cruiser7]

Several of my friends, gay and straight, know that I engage in this hobby. A few are quite interested in it and always want to know all the details of my experiences. I feel it's good that I don't have to lie or hide it from them.

Color me jealous. This is something I don’t have in my life and, because of secrecy, I often find myself saying, “Damn! That was [great, terrible, hot, etc.] and I can’t WAIT to tell...oh, right. Who the hell would I tell?”

[Skip]

Gentleman....It is the law of supply and demand, the haves and the have nots. The trophy wives and spoiled housewives found in the soccer stands of every private high school married to curmudgeonly old guys are the same. An escort may be a little more transactional, but the basics are the same, an exchange of wants and haves. The problem comes when respect is an issue. Service is better in a store that is nice, appreciative and respectful of the customer. Customers get better treatment when they are respectful, pleasant and pay the price asked. Escorting is the same, it's all commerce.

[beachboy]

I have no moral issues with hiring at all. The kind of guys I'm attracted to are unlikely to be attracted to me so I hire someone who is 'my type' & provides the service I'm looking for.

 

I tend to repeat book guys I've had a good time with before and so far things have worked out pretty well with only minor disappointments along the way.

 

In many ways my times with providers have been some of the most honest 'relationships ' I've had-no one is being coerced or lied to & the boundaries & expectations are known by both sides.

 

I'm very careful who I book, treat them with respect, don't haggle, always happy to tip good service & admire them for who they are & the service they provide. I can't wait for the world to return to some form of normality so that I can resume meeting up with certain awesome guys again