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Barebacking and boundaries


Wolfer
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So it had been almost two years since I barebacked. It was with my boyfriend at the time. Since then I've always used condoms and over time I totally forgot what barebacking felt like.

I even thought that the difference in sensation was purely mental.

 

Well, was I wrong. Last weekend I had three mind blowing sessions with an escort. When we fucked the first time he took out the condom himself. On Planetromeo and Rentmen his ad says about safer sex "ask me" and "needs discussion". So during our second session I started teasing his hole with my dick and some spit for lube. He relaxed so much I could slide right in... And I did. And the pleasure nearly shut down my brain. But I did grab a condom to continue the session. (Our last session was also with a condom so basically I only entered him a couple of times without a condom).

 

I talked to him afterward and he said he's on PreP and had got tested two weeks before and everything was negative. Still I went to the sti clinic to talk about PeP (I don't take PreP as I hadn't been sexually active in the past six months, like, at all, I've just recently started having sex again). The doctor said she would prescribe PeP if it would ease my anxiety but she thought there was basically zero risk. So I decided to not start a treatment. But it did make more me aware that even though barebacking felt mindboggingly great (and the sensation just completely shuts down my rational brain) I still prefer a condom (because of other sti's and also I can last much, much longer).

 

Fast forward to tonight. I see an escort I haven't seen in years. We had amazing sessions before (always with condoms) and I'm teasing his hole with spit and he relaxes and... I realize I want to put on a condom. So I grab a condom from his nightstand.

He sees me do that and he says: "Oh, you like it with a condom." I nod and we continue.

 

Here's the thing, I don't enjoy ejaculating. Almost never is it pleasurable. So when I pulled out he asked if I wanted to cum on his chest but I said I didn't need to cum. But I like seeing a guy cum so I ask if I can make him cum and it's clear to me that he thinks it's superhot if he can make me cum. So I agree to cum with him. As I'm on the edge he sits on top of me and puts my dick in his ass just as I'm cumming. (This all happened in a split second, I thought he was just teasing but slipped it in). I shoot half my load in him and try to pull out but this guy is twice my size and weighs like 200 pounds. So I'm unable to pull out entirely.

 

Afterward I ask him if he's on PreP. He says yes but... I feel a little... Sad? Uneasy? Obviously the pleasure from barebacking does get to me and it must have shown in my face... But still, I would've preferred not to cum in his ass.

 

I was also really surprised because this guy years ago only did safe so that's why I wasn't expecting this. I checked his ad after our session but he's unchecked the safer sex option so it doesn't even show in his ad (didn't know this was even possible) because I had thought it said "safe only".

 

Well, I'm going to see a doctor about starting PeP now and have made an appointment for a PreP consultation. Because I seem to have some trouble communicating boundaries and control my impulses.

 

Of course, PreP will not help with other sti's so I still want to use a condom even if I were to start using PreP. But at least it'll be an extra layer of protection for when I find myself in a similar situation and my brain decides to take a holiday.

 

I'm seriously considering stopping with sex for a while. Until I can get a better handle on my brain and self-control.

 

I can go without sex as I've been without any sexual contact for six months so that doesn't bother me (by choice, I hasten to add, hahaha). It seems to be better to just avoid even the possibility of finding myself in such a scenario than taking the risk for now.

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This post will inevitably lead to a colorful debate because this is such a sensitive topic, but before we go there, an observation...

 

In the United States, where PrEP is widely available and quickly rising in popularity, I've noticed a sea change: many escorts who used to insist on condoms are now assuming that everyone wants bareback sex, unless the clients specifically ask for a condom. It used to be exactly the opposite: condoms didn't even need to be discussed, they were a "given."

 

Thankfully, I feel like this happened right around the time that I got on PrEP myself, so I'm not really upset about this, but I still find it remarkable how quickly attitudes and behaviors have changed.

 

Understandably, in countries where access to PrEP access is more limited, condoms are still the norm.

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I noticed a change. The ad of a guy I'm still considering hiring no longer displays when I filter "safe only". Not sure if he has changed his stance, or something to do with rentmen/rent.men

 

This post will inevitably lead to a colorful debate because this is such a sensitive topic, but before we go there, an observation...

 

In the United States, where PrEP is widely available and quickly rising in popularity, I've noticed a sea change: many escorts who used to insist on condoms are now assuming that everyone wants bareback sex, unless the clients specifically ask for a condom. It used to be exactly the opposite: condoms didn't even need to be discussed, they were a "given."

 

Thankfully, I feel like this happened right around the time that I got on PrEP myself, so I'm not really upset about this, but I still find it remarkable how quickly attitudes and behaviors have changed.

 

Understandably, in countries where access to PrEP access is more limited, condoms are still the norm.

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This post will inevitably lead to a colorful debate because this is such a sensitive topic, but before we go there, an observation...

 

In the United States, where PrEP is widely available and quickly rising in popularity, I've noticed a sea change: many escorts who used to insist on condoms are now assuming that everyone wants bareback sex, unless the clients specifically ask for a condom. It used to be exactly the opposite: condoms didn't even need to be discussed, they were a "given."

 

Thankfully, I feel like this happened right around the time that I got on PrEP myself, so I'm not really upset about this, but I still find it remarkable how quickly attitudes and behaviors have changed.

 

Understandably, in countries where access to PrEP access is more limited, condoms are still the norm.

PreP is relatively easily available in Western-Europe thanks to the healthcare here. But I've not noticed the same amount of openness to barebacking as in the USA (just based off of the info in escort profiles, not personal experience). Basically 99% of the profiles state "safe only". If I filter on "ask me" or "anything goes" the hits are few and far between in Europe.

 

Yeah, my experience has been the same. I didn't hire for more than two years and only recently started again and there seems to be a definite shift to being more open about barebacking. I outright say during pre-meetup communication that I fuck with a condom (if the ad says "ask me") if the ad states "safe only" I don't, since I presume we'll be using condoms.

Although one guy, who had "safe only" and told me he didn't bareback before the meeting, asked me during the meeting if I preferred it without a condom. But I don't think he was checking if I wanted to bareback but making sure that if I DID prefer barebacking I'd still put on a condom with him.

 

I noticed a change. The ad of a guy I'm still considering hiring no longer displays when I filter "safe only". Not sure if he has changed his stance, or something to do with rentmen/rent.men
If you have a direct link to his ad you can check what it says about "safer sex", although apparently guys on rentmen can hide it from their profile.
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PreP is relatively easily available in Western-Europe thanks to the healthcare here. But I've not noticed the same amount of openness to barebacking as in the USA (just based off of the info in escort profiles, not personal experience). Basically 99% of the profiles state "safe only". If I filter on "ask me" or "anything goes" the hits are few and far between in Europe.
I was recently looking at Berlin escorts on RM. Screening for "safe only" gave 1 1/2 pages. "Ask Me" and "Anything Goes" each returned less than a page. But there were 7 pages if you checked none of the Safe/BB options. The vast majority checked none of the options, which suggests to me a rejection of the term "safe sex" or perhaps they are not sure what it means. Its always been an ambiguous term which means different things to different people.
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I was recently looking at Berlin escorts on RM. Screening for "safe only" gave 1 1/2 pages. "Ask Me" and "Anything Goes" each returned less than a page. But there were 7 pages if you checked none of the Safe/BB options. The vast majority checked none of the options, which suggests to me a rejection of the term "safe sex" or perhaps they are not sure what it means. Its always been an ambiguous term which means different things to different people.

That's interesting. I never filter on safer sex so I wasn't aware (until now) that escorts could opt to not fill out the field.

 

Yeah, I sometimes forget that safer sex means different things to different people. I always assume it means fucking with a condom.

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So it had been almost two years since I barebacked. It was with my boyfriend at the time. Since then I've always used condoms and over time I totally forgot what barebacking felt like.

I even thought that the difference in sensation was purely mental.

 

Well, was I wrong. Last weekend I had three mind blowing sessions with an escort. When we fucked the first time he took out the condom himself. On Planetromeo and Rentmen his ad says about safer sex "ask me" and "needs discussion". So during our second session I started teasing his hole with my dick and some spit for lube. He relaxed so much I could slide right in... And I did. And the pleasure nearly shut down my brain. But I did grab a condom to continue the session. (Our last session was also with a condom so basically I only entered him a couple of times without a condom).

 

I talked to him afterward and he said he's on PreP and had got tested two weeks before and everything was negative. Still I went to the sti clinic to talk about PeP (I don't take PreP as I hadn't been sexually active in the past six months, like, at all, I've just recently started having sex again). The doctor said she would prescribe PeP if it would ease my anxiety but she thought there was basically zero risk. So I decided to not start a treatment. But it did make more me aware that even though barebacking felt mindboggingly great (and the sensation just completely shuts down my rational brain) I still prefer a condom (because of other sti's and also I can last much, much longer).

 

Fast forward to tonight. I see an escort I haven't seen in years. We had amazing sessions before (always with condoms) and I'm teasing his hole with spit and he relaxes and... I realize I want to put on a condom. So I grab a condom from his nightstand.

He sees me do that and he says: "Oh, you like it with a condom." I nod and we continue.

 

Here's the thing, I don't enjoy ejaculating. Almost never is it pleasurable. So when I pulled out he asked if I wanted to cum on his chest but I said I didn't need to cum. But I like seeing a guy cum so I ask if I can make him cum and it's clear to me that he thinks it's superhot if he can make me cum. So I agree to cum with him. As I'm on the edge he sits on top of me and puts my dick in his ass just as I'm cumming. (This all happened in a split second, I thought he was just teasing but slipped it in). I shoot half my load in him and try to pull out but this guy is twice my size and weighs like 200 pounds. So I'm unable to pull out entirely.

 

Afterward I ask him if he's on PreP. He says yes but... I feel a little... Sad? Uneasy? Obviously the pleasure from barebacking does get to me and it must have shown in my face... But still, I would've preferred not to cum in his ass.

 

I was also really surprised because this guy years ago only did safe so that's why I wasn't expecting this. I checked his ad after our session but he's unchecked the safer sex option so it doesn't even show in his ad (didn't know this was even possible) because I had thought it said "safe only".

 

Well, I'm going to see a doctor about starting PeP now and have made an appointment for a PreP consultation. Because I seem to have some trouble communicating boundaries and control my impulses.

 

Of course, PreP will not help with other sti's so I still want to use a condom even if I were to start using PreP. But at least it'll be an extra layer of protection for when I find myself in a similar situation and my brain decides to take a holiday.

 

I'm seriously considering stopping with sex for a while. Until I can get a better handle on my brain and self-control.

 

I can go without sex as I've been without any sexual contact for six months so that doesn't bother me (by choice, I hasten to add, hahaha). It seems to be better to just avoid even the possibility of finding myself in such a scenario than taking the risk for now.

 

I hear you about peace of mind. I had a massage about a year ago in SF. Made it clear I was not looking for sex, but wanted sensual and legit massage... and asked if he was ok being nude and allowing mutual touch. It was a great experience until the last 15 min. The MT had him aroused, which I found fun. He straddled me and with my junk behind him, stroked me with his hand behind his back. I came, and finished him with my hand. It was all great until he asked if I wanted to cum. I was so confused at first, like ... how could he not know? I said I already did - and he asked, “In me??”. Took a few seconds for me to realize he’d slipped me in him. I would never believe someone would not know had I not gone through this. I asked if he was at least on PrEP, and he said no. He had not asked me a single health question. Not one. Suffice to say, I freaked. Got on PEP immediately. Could not put through insurance. This was $4026 of meds for one month, which THANK GOD I got a one time voucher for. Very expensive lesson. I know my risk was low based on topping, but to not take action was not an option. The regret would be a bigger problem. I now carry condoms ALL the time, and have made a project out of finding the best ones. (Trojan Supra non-latex, no odor.)

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I'm concerned that barebacking is becoming the norm because at least in the US only a fraction of MSM are taking PreP consistently and it seems like most of them are people who wouldn't have needed it anyway.

What evidence do you have that only a "fraction" are taking PreP consistently?

 

And I'm at a complete loss to understand the second part of your post. If they're in the MSM category, how can they not need to be talking PreP?

 

Finally, if barebacking concerns you, don't do it.

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I'm concerned that barebacking is becoming the norm because at least in the US only a fraction of MSM are taking PreP consistently and it seems like most of them are people who wouldn't have needed it anyway.

 

What evidence do you have that only a "fraction" are taking PreP consistently?

 

And I'm at a complete loss to understand the second part of your post. If they're in the MSM category, how can they not need to be talking PreP?

.

 

More would take it if more insurance policies covered it, I'm sure.

 

That's why I don't take it....I can't afford the $25,000/year that it costs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hurting for money, but that's almost twice what my mortgage payment is. My insurance company in California does not consider such preventative treatments to be "necessary medical treatment."

 

And so, as with many medical treatments in the US, it comes down to paying for the pills or paying for the necessities of life.

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More would take it if more insurance policies covered it, I'm sure.

 

That's why I don't take it....I can't afford the $25,000/year that it costs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hurting for money, but that's almost twice what my mortgage payment is. My insurance company in California does not consider such preventative treatments to be "necessary medical treatment."

 

And so, as with many medical treatments in the US, it comes down to paying for the pills or paying for the necessities of life.

https://www.gileadadvancingaccess.com/copay-coupon-card

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I appreciate the thought, but my income is too high to generally qualify for discount cards and such....and since that pharmaceutical company doesn't spell out what their eligibility criteria is, I'm a little reluctant to share my personal and financial information with them (since it wouldn't be covered by HIPPA, if I'm not mistaken, or any other privacy law that I'm familiar with).

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More would take it if more insurance policies covered it, I'm sure.

 

That's why I don't take it....I can't afford the $25,000/year that it costs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hurting for money, but that's almost twice what my mortgage payment is. My insurance company in California does not consider such preventative treatments to be "necessary medical treatment."

 

And so, as with many medical treatments in the US, it comes down to paying for the pills or paying for the necessities of life.

 

 

Not everyone even can take it, so there are multiple good reasons not to.

 

This is not meant to call you out or put you on the spot but I'm hoping that given the relative anonymity of the forum, you'll free free to answer some questions. If this forum is like a lot of others, there are many many more lurkers than posters, so any info people can share may go a long way. That's the spirit of my question, not to pry into your personal business, I don't actually know you. Of course, as you well know, you are free to not answer any and all, I will not get agitated, you set your own boundaries that work for you.

 

When you write your insurance company doesn't cover PrEP, is this a general understanding or were you specifically denied coverage after requesting it? If you were denied, did you explain your scenario as one were you have sex with people who have sex with people for money (not quite the same thing as saying you pay anyone for sex, if that matters) or perhaps you said just you have sex with men? Did you attempt an appeal? And finally, what insurance company was it?

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When you write your insurance company doesn't cover PrEP, is this a general understanding or were you specifically denied coverage after requesting it? If you were denied, did you explain your scenario as one were you have sex with people who have sex with people for money (not quite the same thing as saying you pay anyone for sex, if that matters) or perhaps you said just you have sex with men? Did you attempt an appeal? And finally, what insurance company was it?

 

To answer your questions, in the order they were asked:

 

1) I called their benefits "help line" to ask about coverage specifically bout Truvada as PReP. This was several months after the drug was approved for that purpose, so theoretically their system should have been updated.

 

2) I made it very clear that I fell into the MSM (men who have sex with men) category -- but I did not specifically talk about escorts.

 

3) Since it was inquiring about benefits, there was no appeals process.

 

4) Forgive my reluctance to answer this one, but the arrangements of my health insurance can start to get into "personally identifiable information." Suffice it to say that it is insurance through a public employee's system (as in someone who works for the state, county, or municipal government, school/university system, police/fire department, etc.).

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To answer your questions, in the order they were asked:

 

1) I called their benefits "help line" to ask about coverage specifically bout Truvada as PReP. This was several months after the drug was approved for that purpose, so theoretically their system should have been updated.

 

2) I made it very clear that I fell into the MSM (men who have sex with men) category -- but I did not specifically talk about escorts.

 

3) Since it was inquiring about benefits, there was no appeals process.

 

4) Forgive my reluctance to answer this one, but the arrangements of my health insurance can start to get into "personally identifiable information." Suffice it to say that it is insurance through a public employee's system (as in someone who works for the state, county, or municipal government, school/university system, police/fire department, etc.).

 

 

Thanks, I understand that. I'm sure for a lot of people that also plays a factor in how much info they want to disclose to their doctor, which would then be provided to the insurance co, to justify coverage. In this case, the co name doesn't really matter, since my understanding is being an MSM alone is not enough, if that's all they have, pretty much all the companies will not cover for just that. As before each person has to set their own boundaries. I appreciate your answer and hope sharing will help others.

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It was a great experience until the last 15 min. The MT had him aroused, which I found fun. He straddled me and with my junk behind him, stroked me with his hand behind his back.

 

I had a very similar experience with a masseur visiting SF, @wbtravis. I'm wondering if it was the same guy!

 

The only difference is that after a few minutes of the guy stroking me as he straddled my chest (same position as you), I very distinctly felt him slide himself onto my cock. You could see it in the expression on his face. I said, "wait, what are you doing? get a condom". And he looked at me a little quizzically and said, "why? do you think you're in me?" It was the most bizarre thing. Of course, I said yeah to which he responded, "no, you're not in me" and then proceeds to ride my cock and stroke himself.

 

I was shocked that he did this without a condom and shocked that he was telling me that I was not in him, when clearly I was. But like the OP, the pleasure was so fantastic and the guy was absolutely my type, that I didn't stop him. I let him ride away until he shot all over my chest and I really enjoyed watching him (and of course the amazing sensation of raw sex).

 

I agree with the comments that there has been a dramatic shift away from condom use with many providers. I don't know whether it's driven by an assumption that many people are on PreP and therefore their own risk is lower or a false sense of security because they are on PreP themselves.

 

I know it's my responsibility to "be the adult in the room" and ensure I adhere to safer sex practices, but I completely empathize with the OP's struggle.

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But

I had a very similar experience with a masseur visiting SF, @wbtravis. I'm wondering if it was the same guy!

 

The only difference is that after a few minutes of the guy stroking me as he straddled my chest (same position as you), I very distinctly felt him slide himself onto my cock. You could see it in the expression on his face. I said, "wait, what are you doing? get a condom". And he looked at me a little quizzically and said, "why? do you think you're in me?" It was the most bizarre thing. Of course, I said yeah to which he responded, "no, you're not in me" and then proceeds to ride my cock and stroke himself.

 

I was shocked that he did this without a condom and shocked that he was telling me that I was not in him, when clearly I was. But like the OP, the pleasure was so fantastic and the guy was absolutely my type, that I didn't stop him. I let him ride away until he shot all over my chest and I really enjoyed watching him (and of course the amazing sensation of raw sex).

 

I agree with the comments that there has been a dramatic shift away from condom use with many providers. I don't know whether it's driven by an assumption that many people are on PreP and therefore their own risk is lower or a false sense of security because they are on PreP themselves.

 

I know it's my responsibility to "be the adult in the room" and ensure I adhere to safer sex practices, but I completely empathize with the OP's struggle.[/QUOTe]

It isn't a "false sense of security." It is well established at this point that truvada drastically reduces the risk of HIV transmission.

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I had a very similar experience with a masseur visiting SF, @wbtravis. I'm wondering if it was the same guy!

 

The only difference is that after a few minutes of the guy stroking me as he straddled my chest (same position as you), I very distinctly felt him slide himself onto my cock. You could see it in the expression on his face. I said, "wait, what are you doing? get a condom". And he looked at me a little quizzically and said, "why? do you think you're in me?" It was the most bizarre thing. Of course, I said yeah to which he responded, "no, you're not in me" and then proceeds to ride my cock and stroke himself.

 

I was shocked that he did this without a condom and shocked that he was telling me that I was not in him, when clearly I was. But like the OP, the pleasure was so fantastic and the guy was absolutely my type, that I didn't stop him. I let him ride away until he shot all over my chest and I really enjoyed watching him (and of course the amazing sensation of raw sex).

 

I agree with the comments that there has been a dramatic shift away from condom use with many providers. I don't know whether it's driven by an assumption that many people are on PreP and therefore their own risk is lower or a false sense of security because they are on PreP themselves.

 

I know it's my responsibility to "be the adult in the room" and ensure I adhere to safer sex practices, but I completely empathize with the OP's struggle.

>>Took a few seconds for me to realize he’d slipped me in him.

 

If you were inside him, and are healthy, the risk is minimal to non existenent and doesn't justify the outlay of cash -- except emotionally, I guess.

 

From where I sat, the only regret I could have that was worse than getting in that situation would have been to get HIV and think there was an action I should have taken.

 

The risk to tops is less, but not non-existent. I wonder how many tops contracted HIV with no other explanation (did not ottom, no IV drug use, etc.)? I was not willing to risk it for me, my partner, my family.

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bnm73 obviously choice re PrEP is yours to make, but allow me 2 points re its affordability.

 

First, the answer to your call to your insurer may not have been accurate at all. Get a prescription from a doctor and price filling it with your insurance. You may be quite pleasantly surprised. It's hard to imagine a medical plan for public employees, in Cali fergodsake, that wouldn't cover PrEP.

 

In my case, Truvada is Tier III on my prescription plan like most other brand named drugs, so in one way it "isn't covered." However, my out of pocket for ANY drug is capped at $75/month. The Gilead copay plan covers that, so my cost is $0.

 

Second important point is the there is NO financial requirement for the Truvada copay waiver plan. You simply have to register with them (no financial disclosure required) and they send you a card. Present at your pharmacy the first time and they'll keep it on file. (As an aside, I learned the hard way that my mail order pharmacy doesn't honor the copay plan, it has to be used at a retail pharmacy.)

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bnm73 obviously choice re PrEP is yours to make, but allow me 2 points re its affordability.

 

First, the answer to your call to your insurer may not have been accurate at all. Get a prescription from a doctor and price filling it with your insurance. You may be quite pleasantly surprised. It's hard to imagine a medical plan for public employees, in Cali fergodsake, that wouldn't cover PrEP.

 

In my case, Truvada is Tier III on my prescription plan like most other brand named drugs, so in one way it "isn't covered." However, my out of pocket for ANY drug is capped at $75/month. The Gilead copay plan covers that, so my cost is $0.

 

Second important point is the there is NO financial requirement for the Truvada copay waiver plan. You simply have to register with them (no financial disclosure required) and they send you a card. Present at your pharmacy the first time and they'll keep it on file. (As an aside, I learned the hard way that my mail order pharmacy doesn't honor the copay plan, it has to be used at a retail pharmacy.)

This has been my experience as well....

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bnm73 obviously choice re PrEP is yours to make, but allow me 2 points re its affordability.

 

First, the answer to your call to your insurer may not have been accurate at all. Get a prescription from a doctor and price filling it with your insurance. You may be quite pleasantly surprised. It's hard to imagine a medical plan for public employees, in Cali fergodsake, that wouldn't cover PrEP.

 

In my case, Truvada is Tier III on my prescription plan like most other brand named drugs, so in one way it "isn't covered." However, my out of pocket for ANY drug is capped at $75/month. The Gilead copay plan covers that, so my cost is $0.

 

Second important point is the there is NO financial requirement for the Truvada copay waiver plan. You simply have to register with them (no financial disclosure required) and they send you a card. Present at your pharmacy the first time and they'll keep it on file. (As an aside, I learned the hard way that my mail order pharmacy doesn't honor the copay plan, it has to be used at a retail pharmacy.)

 

While I can appreciate your advice and see the logic to it, part of me rather dreads the idea of having the embarrassing doctor's appointment, etc., when insurance has already told me "no."

 

BUT your point of checking again (to see if plans/coverages have been changed or updated, for example) is not a bad idea. It's worth another phone call to see if there is updated information.

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