Drained Empty

I've seen Drake play with guys at a local spa.
 
Not normally my type but a very sexy guy.

I've seen Drake play with guys at a local spa.
 
Not normally my type but a very sexy guy.

Who's making anyone feel bad?
 
I too stated that I like blue eyes. I'm just curious how much of that attraction is media/socially driven and why it seemingly has to be at the expense of non-blue eyes. Even in countries like India.
 
I guarantee you neither the Pakistani chaiwala nor "hot con" Jeremy Meeks would not have gone viral had it not been for their blue eyes. But fair enough, we can leave this as a gallery post.

Who's making anyone feel bad?
 
I too stated that I like blue eyes. I'm just curious how much of that attraction is media/socially driven and why it seemingly has to be at the expense of non-blue eyes. Even in countries like India.
 
I guarantee you neither the Pakistani chaiwala nor "hot con" Jeremy Meeks would not have gone viral had it not been for their blue eyes. But fair enough, we can leave this as a gallery post.

Silence is Golden.
 
On an unrelated note, Spencer Whitman, whom Tony Napoli recommended, does not see Asian clients for escorting, and probably will be miserable massaging a person of that ethnicity. So avoid him (and an awkward rejection based on your race) if you are Asian.

Silence is Golden.
 
On an unrelated note, Spencer Whitman, whom Tony Napoli recommended, does not see Asian clients for escorting, and probably will be miserable massaging a person of that ethnicity. So avoid him (and an awkward rejection based on your race) if you are Asian.

Kenomara, I am sad to hear this happened to you. I have spoken candidly about blanket racial rejection in other threads and facing similar experiences, whether with providers, hook-up apps, and/or at bars or spas.
 
To be rejected for your race is a pain that can't be easily described and sadly one Asians, Indians, and sometimes blacks experience all too often. It is white privilege to both not have to experience it and own the power of rejection.
 
The harsh and all encompassing "nos," i.e. "no Asians," dehumanize. You are no longer a person, you are a category. The even more offensive "no rice or spice" (no Asians or Indians) reduces you to an object. I'm sure there are white patrons that guys like Spencer are not attracted to, but they at least not treated with the indignity of an automatic rejection before an in-person meeting.
 
At least you were spared the pain of being rejected to your face. To travel (I presume) to him with excitement and expectation, only to get "the look" (the same that patrons at bars and spas give, because they can't outright say "get away from me") and the awkward "sorry" followed by a closed door.
 
Eventually, I find I forget those "nos" and "looks." They happen so often. The residual, ongoing hurt comes from knowing you've done nothing wrong except being born what most of gay society deems "undesirable" and not being able to do anything about it. And also it hurts realizing for all the LGBT "progress" that's being touted, there is hate within our own community.
 
I'm going to stop now, because people on this board accuse me of playing "the race card" or having "issues." So thank you for sharing your experience, however painful, and having this discussion. Because being silenced is another type of "no."

Kenomara, I am sad to hear this happened to you. I have spoken candidly about blanket racial rejection in other threads and facing similar experiences, whether with providers, hook-up apps, and/or at bars or spas.
 
To be rejected for your race is a pain that can't be easily described and sadly one Asians, Indians, and sometimes blacks experience all too often. It is white privilege to both not have to experience it and own the power of rejection.
 
The harsh and all encompassing "nos," i.e. "no Asians," dehumanize. You are no longer a person, you are a category. The even more offensive "no rice or spice" (no Asians or Indians) reduces you to an object. I'm sure there are white patrons that guys like Spencer are not attracted to, but they at least not treated with the indignity of an automatic rejection before an in-person meeting.
 
At least you were spared the pain of being rejected to your face. To travel (I presume) to him with excitement and expectation, only to get "the look" (the same that patrons at bars and spas give, because they can't outright say "get away from me") and the awkward "sorry" followed by a closed door.
 
Eventually, I find I forget those "nos" and "looks." They happen so often. The residual, ongoing hurt comes from knowing you've done nothing wrong except being born what most of gay society deems "undesirable" and not being able to do anything about it. And also it hurts realizing for all the LGBT "progress" that's being touted, there is hate within our own community.
 
I'm going to stop now, because people on this board accuse me of playing "the race card" or having "issues." So thank you for sharing your experience, however painful, and having this discussion. Because being silenced is another type of "no."

I was asking on our mutual behalf!

I was asking on our mutual behalf!

Kenomara, I am sad to hear this happened to you. I have spoken candidly about blanket racial rejection in other threads and facing similar experiences, whether with providers, hook-up apps, and/or at bars or spas.
 
To be rejected for your race is a pain that can't be easily described and sadly one Asians, Indians, and sometimes blacks experience all too often. It is white privilege to both not have to experience it and own the power of rejection.
 
The harsh and all encompassing "nos," i.e. "no Asians," dehumanize. You are no longer a person, you are a category. The even more offensive "no rice or spice" (no Asians or Indians) reduces you to an object. I'm sure there are white patrons that guys like Spencer are not attracted to, but they at least not treated with the indignity of an automatic rejection before an in-person meeting.
 
At least you were spared the pain of being rejected to your face. To travel (I presume) to him with excitement and expectation, only to get "the look" (the same that patrons at bars and spas give, because they can't outright say "get away from me") and the awkward "sorry" followed by a closed door.
 
Eventually, I find I forget those "nos" and "looks." They happen so often. The residual, ongoing hurt comes from knowing you've done nothing wrong except being born what most of gay society deems "undesirable" and not being able to do anything about it. And also it hurts realizing for all the LGBT "progress" that's being touted, there is hate within our own community.
 
I'm going to stop now, because people on this board accuse me of playing "the race card" or having "issues." So thank you for sharing your experience, however painful, and having this discussion. Because being silenced is another type of "no."

Kenomara, I am sad to hear this happened to you. I have spoken candidly about blanket racial rejection in other threads and facing similar experiences, whether with providers, hook-up apps, and/or at bars or spas.
 
To be rejected for your race is a pain that can't be easily described and sadly one Asians, Indians, and sometimes blacks experience all too often. It is white privilege to both not have to experience it and own the power of rejection.
 
The harsh and all encompassing "nos," i.e. "no Asians," dehumanize. You are no longer a person, you are a category. The even more offensive "no rice or spice" (no Asians or Indians) reduces you to an object. I'm sure there are white patrons that guys like Spencer are not attracted to, but they at least not treated with the indignity of an automatic rejection before an in-person meeting.
 
At least you were spared the pain of being rejected to your face. To travel (I presume) to him with excitement and expectation, only to get "the look" (the same that patrons at bars and spas give, because they can't outright say "get away from me") and the awkward "sorry" followed by a closed door.
 
Eventually, I find I forget those "nos" and "looks." They happen so often. The residual, ongoing hurt comes from knowing you've done nothing wrong except being born what most of gay society deems "undesirable" and not being able to do anything about it. And also it hurts realizing for all the LGBT "progress" that's being touted, there is hate within our own community.
 
I'm going to stop now, because people on this board accuse me of playing "the race card" or having "issues." So thank you for sharing your experience, however painful, and having this discussion. Because being silenced is another type of "no."

Although I did feel crappy about being rejected, I do understand him on the preference issue. The thing I’m mostly upset about was the approach he took to get the information. It was just insincere and made the rejection felt worse. He could have just said to me “I prefer clients who are (whichever races).” Instead, he chose to initially cover up his real intention by making me think he wanted information to help him recognize me once we met. If you get to talk to him, please let him know that his current approach was hurtful, and that he should be more upfront about what he wants. Not necessarily on the ad itself, but in the subsequent communication with a client. No need to make up stuff to justify the question.

Drained Empty, no need to "tone it down." Too often we are accused of playing the "race card" when in reality it is played against us. I have read yours posts and would like to share my experience.
 
I am South Asian. I was born in Cali and went to school/worked in NYC. I have gotten the looks from straight and gay people. I have been asked if my dick tastes like curry. I have been asked if I smell. During my best friend's bachelor party (he is a beautiful black man from Africa) at an upscale restaurant, a man at the next table asked "who let the cabbies in." It ruined the night.
 
I graduated college just months before 9/11. Imagine being called a terrorist or getting looks every day for months. I'm Hindu, not Muslim. It was also a downturn in the economy and people accused Asians and South Asians of stealing jobs.
 
I have faced everything you have. Now that I live in Los Angeles, I don't go to West Hollywood because I know how I will be treated. I have been to the spas you talk about and witnessed the walk-outs you describe. I have been on the receiving end of them. It has ruined my visit too.
 
People are hateful. Gay men are especially hateful. They hate for no reason or because of your skin. For a long time it got to me. I asked, why am I on the receiving end of all this hate? And I can understand why you feel defeated.
 
If you ever want to meet for coffee or chat, let me know.
 
-- Vik

(1) I love your username.
 
(2) Here in England I've only met one escorts who asked my race, and it turned out he had a fetish for Asians anyway.
 
For you especially, being what the Brits call 'East Asian' would be no problem here.
What Americans call 'Asians' are such a small minority here, too small for racists to really consider. I think the same goes for much of Europe, where East Asians are too niche to really form an opinion on.
 
Now those who really face the worst racism on the British gay scene are South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis) for reasons I'm not sure.

I comprehend just fine. Don't insult my intelligence because I have never insulted yours.
 
What follows will probably make you (and others) cringe, because I know you don't share the same views. Maybe you're enlightened. Maybe you're in denial. Maybe a bit of both. But here we go.
 
The reason I act "deferential" is simple; it's been ingrained. Most minority/immigrants are instructed from childhood to assimilate, to fit in. We are taught not to offend, and if we do -- even when we've done nothing wrong -- to apologize. Whiteness is epitomized; Asianness (or blackness, etc.) is marginalized. This is heightened in our society, where whiteness is seen as desirable and the ideal. That's why many Asian women (and our gay brothers) go after white guys. Not only are they seen as physically desirable, they're a ticket into whiteness. Your skin color will never grant you entry, but perhaps your partner will. In the gay community, this is heightened to the nth degree as 95+% of the media and advertising promotes white beauty. Not only that, but Asianness is demoted. Asian men are emasculated, "supported" by the fact that biologically we tend to be smaller (a non-masculine trait). We are "othered."
 
We are categorized as all the same, hence the frequency of seeing "no Asians." Anything white? Fine. Anything Asian? "No." Categorically "no."
 
Others take it to extremes, saying "no Chinks/Gooks" (reducing us to a slur), or "no rice" (reducing us to not even humans). In bars, clubs, and especially spas, social mores and political correctness go out the window under the pretense of "preference." And while it's still unpolite to say "get away from me" -- again, even if we've done nothing wrong -- it's acceptable to repeatedly clear out a room when an Asian enters, sigh, roll your eyes, glare, intimidate, etc.
 
Take pride, you say. Grow some balls! It's very difficult to break free from something so ingrained. On top of that, whites have power. That's why they're called the alpha gays. For God's sake they have so much power they've completely taken over Korean spas in LA, SF, and NYC. KOREAN Spas. It's why I reveal my race to masseurs. It's why I let whites claim space. They have power, specifically the power of rejection and "othering" me. Sometimes, I'll have moments of defiance or anger or activism and say something. Which, as you've pointed out, only makes things worse because then I sound "crazy." I am told "it's my fault." Or you get shamed for playing the "race card" (see post above). And its not just those in power. Asians do it themselves. For those with your views, Asians who are "deferential" are weak. For those with my views, we're just tired of fighting the system. I get walked out on in every visit. It gets tiring. I let the people with power be.
 
We have no leaders. Not to get too political, but look at BLM. African Americans have been fighting for civil rights for decades and are still trying to get recognized. Asians were enslaved as well and we're barely scratching the surface when it comes to political rights and recognition, much less in the socio/sexual sphere. And definitely not in the LGBT sphere, as many Asian families disavow or don't discuss gayness.
 
That, my friend, is why we as a whole are "defeated." Not just me.

Screened it weeks ago with critics so didn't get the same reaction as in a theater.
 
I thought it was cute but none of the adults felt believable outside Jen Garner (and no one's dad looks like Josh Duhamel ever lol).
 
The one diner guy looked way older than high school, as did Alexandra Shipp.
 
I do know the feeling of emailing your crush anonymously and waiting for replies. That happened to me back in the day (before smartphones and push notifications) and I would rush back home. He thought I was a girl though lol.

What happened with your masseur is terrible, Glee. That's my worst fear. You can just tell on someone's face when they're disgusted by your race. It's one of the worst feelings in the world.
 
Ironically, it's their problem and not ours. If they're truly professional they should work with clients of all shapes, sizes and colors, especially if they are masseurs and their bodywork is meant to be therapeutic.
 
I can understand if a client has open sores or a skin condition that could pose health risks, but being Asian is NOT a disease, even though some treat it as such. The entire energy changes and you put the blame on yourself.
 
I've come to accept social rejection based on my race, and now business (because that's what massage or escort service is) rejection as well.
 
It's a sad and depressing reality, but one that I can't change. I will continue to disclose my race, but only after the rate is stated so they can't raise it. And if they close a door in my face or don't touch me, so be it.
 
The masseur who allegedly doesn't like Asian clients is Grant (formerly Taylor) in Weho, according to his thread.

So I checked out the Pocket with a friend. Pocket is appropro -- most of the dancers were so short! In L.A. we are treated to the cream of the crop -- face, body, package. None of the dancers in NOLA had all three, except maybe the guy with the glasses. I was as fit as a few of them lol. Wasn't too impressed.
 
Checked out Rawhide. First night was super quiet. I ended up getting blown by the hottest guy there and another, whom I learned was a bartender lol. The next night was a bit busier but zero action for me. The third night was crazy busy, with the bartender fucking a guy wearing a harness and at least 20 guys sucking and some fucking. I didn't get any action; maybe because I was a bit turned off by all the partner swapping, or maybe because I didn't drop trou -- not that my dick would be super visible in the dark anyway. Not sure I'd head back.

Those signs have been up there forever. At least 18 months.
 
There was one beefy white guy that used to walk around and sit in the steam room with a semi. I used to see him all the time but not recently. Maybe he got tossed.
 
I have to agree that lately there's been a dry spell. There is always at least one or two pretty hot guys there. Fridays can be very packed -- too packed to play.
 
It's a shame because when it was hot it was off the hook. I once got into a four-way in the steam!
 
I'll probably check out the facilities (and debate cancelling my membership) this week if anyone is going.
 
Has anyone else seen the guy who does yoga in the steamroom. He always leaves his towel on the floor. Heavily tatted with a great body and hung?
 
Heard the Pasadena facilities and South Bay locations are cruisy. Hollywood definitely is not.

Those signs have been up there forever. At least 18 months.
 
There was one beefy white guy that used to walk around and sit in the steam room with a semi. I used to see him all the time but not recently. Maybe he got tossed.
 
I have to agree that lately there's been a dry spell. There is always at least one or two pretty hot guys there. Fridays can be very packed -- too packed to play.
 
It's a shame because when it was hot it was off the hook. I once got into a four-way in the steam!
 
I'll probably check out the facilities (and debate cancelling my membership) this week if anyone is going.
 
Has anyone else seen the guy who does yoga in the steamroom. He always leaves his towel on the floor. Heavily tatted with a great body and hung?
 
Heard the Pasadena facilities and South Bay locations are cruisy. Hollywood definitely is not.

I find Adam's looks and skating unremarkable but he can be proud of his Olympic experience (which almost didn't happen had he not worked hard to come back from injury as well as a disappointing Nationals).
 
I knew he would finish the lowest of the U.S. men because of his base content value (let's be honest, the triple Axels were a bit sketchy).
 
Like his BFF Ashley Wagner, he knows how to play the media game and positioned himself as a new gay icon. I would personally prefer to listen to Johnny than Adam.

BAck to bens curved kidney stabber and his massage skills!!!

Another thing I also don't respond well to is passive aggressiveness, jdjd46. You claim to empathize but then act like you're better than me.
 
I would love to get take out from an Asian restaurant without a white patron thinking that I work there.
 
I would love to go to a Korean spa and not clear out rooms and get nasty looks just for being Asian and entering white space (yes, I know the irony).
 
I would love to just offer a compliment to a guy, with no interest of pursuing anything, without getting a hand to my face, a door slammed, or an automatic block.
 
I would love not to be given a fake address, drive 40 minutes to a random location in the middle of the night, and then be told that my "host" is just messing with me because "chinks are pathetic" (three different guys have actually done this to me).
 
We all try to assimilate the best we can but our race belies that. You think I enjoy being treated the way that I am? The way I see other Asians treated? The way that no one bats an eye at seeing "no Asians" in dating profiles, massage ads, etc.
 
We can't be someone else. You deal with it the way you do. I deal with it the way I do.

Great, good for you both.
 
I generally don't like rejection/offending. If I'm at the spa and a guy walks out when I enter, I avoid going into the room he's in. If I'm at the gym and inadvertently lock eyes with a guy who's not into "my type," I make sure I don't work out near him or enter the locker room while he's there lest he thinks I'm stalking him.
 
Let's face it. A lot of guys aren't into Asians (Asians included). A lot of Asians don't do other Asians any favors by acting a fool or throwing themselves at white guys. I purposely don't act that way.
 
I see some providers at the gym or around town. They hang out with guys that look like them and move/shoo away guys that don't. I know they're doing a job, but if a provider isn't into "my type" I don't want him to be miserable nor do I want to feel undesirable or miserable. So I don't hire them. And I always let them know my race ahead of time.
 
Yes, you can tell from one look if someone is cool with you/being in their presence or not. It happens all the time. I remember one visit to Midtown (a local sex club), one white guy actual stuck his hand in my face (the way you would if someone where pointing a gun at you) and waved NO. Keep in mind I didn't know him, didn't get close to him, I was just walking in his general direction. That reaction really stayed with me and made me feel really worthless. I don't want to feel that way again so if I can avoid it I do.
 
Oh and jdjd46, don't criticize me for making assumptions when you did the exact same thing.