Mocha

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Lol, funny you say. I used to call Los Angeles, LOSS Angeles because if you went there expecting big money, you’d be at a loss lol.
 
But nowadays, I don’t really dislike it one way or another. Truth is, there’s tons of clients coming in and out of LA. Lots of money going around. No secret there.
 
The problem is the supply and demand is so exorbitant, one just can’t go there haphazardly expecting desired results. I think majority reason a lot of guys are advertising there, is because it’s also the Mecca for gay porn and porn in general.
 
One of my clients left me with a giant box of porn when he passed, and on just about every credit, it’s LA, Hollywood, Santa Barbara or West Hollywood in the title. So unless somebody doing all of that, it might not be in one’s best interest. Or plan way ahead of going there.

Well once again, I find myself asking the same question...at what point.
 
I’m just kinda getting fed up. It seems like I get a quick break from the bullshit for a couple of weeks, met some financial goals I needed, and then it’s back to the drawing board.
 
I’m just getting tired of feeling like I have to chase clients down, send up follow up messages all the time, and not getting enough bookings in. They hit me up for an appointment, then don’t have the fucking decency to respond back, leave me hanging in the loop (not racial puns intended)....basically just wasting hours and days with meaningless conversations with these people.
 
I spent all summer discussing arranging plans with one of my semi-regulars I’ve known for years, only for him to lay out some (plausible, yet late) excuse about having financial/family obligations. That’s understandable, but why waste my time all this time...and he’s not even available, for the next few months.
 
This is exactly why I had started to implement deposit at the door strategies. I think I’m just going to have to get to a point where people are just going to have to pay a deposit before they can even speak or book with me.
 
I just get tired of wasting so much time arranging sessions and thinking I may have an appointment, with nothing to show by the end of the day. And now I’m already at day 7 with no clients in a week...I THOUGHT I had atleast 1 or 2, all cancels (called into work/wife not going to her meetings, etc.) And the ones who reached out when I was out of town and followed up when I came back, no where to be found. Won’t answer messages or anything.
 
It’s exactly why I’ve been in steady travel mode for the past 12 months. It’s not worth being stuck being miserable in one city, when I know I can go somewhere else and not have to deal with this shit. So when people want to act stupid, like they did in Detroit and Milwaukee last month, I can just pack my shit up and get the fuck out. Go somewhere else and do better for myself.

Ha, in that article in included rural Missouri as one of the places of the “study”.
 
I just so happen to rotate between touring and rural Missouri myself, outside of Kansas City. The choice on Grindr are slim, usually 20-30 miles away, and a4a doesn’t even register the city. There’s hardly any black people here, but I have gone up to the local gym here and see regularly a few hot “straight” guys. I have taken the step to chat to a couple of them, but in the effort I’ve made so far...I haven’t gotten any action out here.
 
Every time I make a conversation with a “straight” white guy out in public, they ALWAYS bring up their “girlfriend/wife”. One of my clients told me, they do it intentionally to build up a wall to say their off limits, even when I don’t even be intentionally trying to hit on them. I just be curious lol.
 
However...when it comes down to it, it “could” happen, but I feel 2 factors come into play: they tend to be older and if any heteroflexible stuff is going down, it’s going to be between other white guys. On top of that, add in that they probably know each other thru organizations or whatever.
 
The only time I have any success meeting another guy for sex is apps, bars, or ads. There’s only been a few times in life that I’ve met someone out in public outside of any gay establishment, and it’s turned into something (one was a Puerto Rican guy at the car wash...he had a wife and we ended up fucking for months. Eventually I moved, and down the line I heard they split).
 
Sometimes I don’t know what to think. Sometimes I feel there’s a lot more heteroflexible men than we know. Other times I feel the MSM population is much smaller than i seems. In some cities, once you get outside of the gay neighborhood, all you see is guys pushing strollers, kids everywhere, and pretty much like gay people don’t even exist outside of the bedroom.

THANK YOU for the update because I felt like such a loser lol.
I'm back in NYC for presumably the rest of the semester and may try to go to miami for basel if I can. LA didn't seem to have the types of men I enjoy meeting anyway so no harm no foul!

I’m not sure I see what the argument here is about. Everything you’re saying, is basically just saying what @Aaron_Bauder said, but with “exceptions”. Your example is with someone you previously met, who was content with the lesser offer for different reasons than the point Aaron was making.
 
In my opinion, shaving off $100 is not just about the interaction, but clients can also use it to low ball us. “Well my regular so and so charges XXX”.
 
Well, I’m not trying to compete with someone’s regular so and so on a race to the best price. I don’t have to encounter that much on the Rent sites, but adam4adam is notorious for that. And everytime I tell them no. There’s no reason to do all that I do for an appointment, oftentimes requiring booking accommodations, and barely getting a profit...which could be gone by the end of the day if nobody else shows up, which in some cities, is the regular.

Back in the day, I proposed a meeting, location and duration, then received a quote. If I was really into the guy, I accepted and had a great time, almost every time. Now, the majority of discussions involve a negotiation and with it, I have experienced a corresponding decline in performance by companions and satisfaction by me.
 
Yes, I long for the good old days.

Ha, in that article in included rural Missouri as one of the places of the “study”.
 
I just so happen to rotate between touring and rural Missouri myself, outside of Kansas City. The choice on Grindr are slim, usually 20-30 miles away, and a4a doesn’t even register the city. There’s hardly any black people here, but I have gone up to the local gym here and see regularly a few hot “straight” guys. I have taken the step to chat to a couple of them, but in the effort I’ve made so far...I haven’t gotten any action out here.
 
Every time I make a conversation with a “straight” white guy out in public, they ALWAYS bring up their “girlfriend/wife”. One of my clients told me, they do it intentionally to build up a wall to say their off limits, even when I don’t even be intentionally trying to hit on them. I just be curious lol.
 
However...when it comes down to it, it “could” happen, but I feel 2 factors come into play: they tend to be older and if any heteroflexible stuff is going down, it’s going to be between other white guys. On top of that, add in that they probably know each other thru organizations or whatever.
 
The only time I have any success meeting another guy for sex is apps, bars, or ads. There’s only been a few times in life that I’ve met someone out in public outside of any gay establishment, and it’s turned into something (one was a Puerto Rican guy at the car wash...he had a wife and we ended up fucking for months. Eventually I moved, and down the line I heard they split).
 
Sometimes I don’t know what to think. Sometimes I feel there’s a lot more heteroflexible men than we know. Other times I feel the MSM population is much smaller than i seems. In some cities, once you get outside of the gay neighborhood, all you see is guys pushing strollers, kids everywhere, and pretty much like gay people don’t even exist outside of the bedroom.

Ha, in that article in included rural Missouri as one of the places of the “study”.
 
I just so happen to rotate between touring and rural Missouri myself, outside of Kansas City. The choice on Grindr are slim, usually 20-30 miles away, and a4a doesn’t even register the city. There’s hardly any black people here, but I have gone up to the local gym here and see regularly a few hot “straight” guys. I have taken the step to chat to a couple of them, but in the effort I’ve made so far...I haven’t gotten any action out here.
 
Every time I make a conversation with a “straight” white guy out in public, they ALWAYS bring up their “girlfriend/wife”. One of my clients told me, they do it intentionally to build up a wall to say their off limits, even when I don’t even be intentionally trying to hit on them. I just be curious lol.
 
However...when it comes down to it, it “could” happen, but I feel 2 factors come into play: they tend to be older and if any heteroflexible stuff is going down, it’s going to be between other white guys. On top of that, add in that they probably know each other thru organizations or whatever.
 
The only time I have any success meeting another guy for sex is apps, bars, or ads. There’s only been a few times in life that I’ve met someone out in public outside of any gay establishment, and it’s turned into something (one was a Puerto Rican guy at the car wash...he had a wife and we ended up fucking for months. Eventually I moved, and down the line I heard they split).
 
Sometimes I don’t know what to think. Sometimes I feel there’s a lot more heteroflexible men than we know. Other times I feel the MSM population is much smaller than i seems. In some cities, once you get outside of the gay neighborhood, all you see is guys pushing strollers, kids everywhere, and pretty much like gay people don’t even exist outside of the bedroom.

If I'd been worldly and wise I would have taken a few of those hot Iowa farm boys that lived in my house in college.
 
There's no place like home.
 

Oh the number of times I've fantasized about going back in time and fucking EVERY closeted farm dad in my very very small home town; it's a large number of jack sessions that's for sure.

I think the article posited that the guys are not straight even though they believe themselves straight. I choose to believe that people are what they say they are, except when what they say they are is obviously discordant with that they do.

Nothing will be the same as Craigslist.
Because the platform was/is used for job placement, roommates, item sales, and apartments, users for those purposes would sometimes cross over to personals when the mood would arise, this producing a wider and more diverse pool of users and browsers than any alternative really can and ever will.

The CL shut down definitely messed up my sex life, especially when it came to find fellow guys around my age. The shut down forced me to get into cruising which has been wack and mentally poisonous. Doublelist has been dubbed CL's alternative but it just isn't the same.

79.99$ Recurring (autopay) monthly gold
vs.
99.99$ one month of gold membership
 

The issue is, anybody can be judgmental. And in the gay scene, one can come across a lot of that. Even the ones who claim to “not judge” are the same ones who are quick to judge somebody based on who they do/don’t know, judge by the job they do, judge on someone’s ethnicity: If it really came down to that, I could say the WHOLE gay community are fuck ups, BUT...that’s generalizing and I wouldn’t want to follow the cynical lingo that some guys use when referring to gay culture.
 
For the most part, I still consider clients as my friends. Not just because the money, but because most clients I meet are polar opposites of how guys in the Gay Bar’s, apps and similar situations are. I just don’t get to see all of them enough to abandoned the gay scene all together. I get BORED. So bored. I booked a hotel downtown just so I can go out last weekend, and I don’t even like the scene in this city. It’s so segregated (within the gay community) and all about “who you know”, which are the same people they’ve know forever.
 
But, I try to make the best out it anyway I can. At the same time, I seem to be leaning more towards just meeting people as I go versus making “friends” with folks. I just don’t need anybody around me who’s just going to be in my ear, getting on my nerves and offering suggestions that aren’t conducive to staying in business. Goodbye!

I noticed you ?? one of my posts. Not sure why, but I just want to mention...people are changing the thread from the initial question (which contain very little information), and are now tweaking it to give ”exceptions”. The question was this:
 
I recently arranged a session with a RM and after setting the date and time, the guy requested that I send a deposit to hold my place. Is this a common practice?
 
Some people are saying they’ll never pay a deposit, others are saying what you’re saying, “not for a 1 hour session”. The whole point is not every situation is going to call for a deposit, but some do. To make a blanket statement to say so and so has hired for 20 years and never paid a deposit, is going beyond the initial topic of the questions.
 
And let’s be real, the OP “asked an escort”. I’m not saying client opinions aren’t valuable, but I can bet if more escorts chimed in, the replies would be significantly different.
 
Despite my advocating deposits, I generally only need to ask for them when a situation requires so. It’s like when a poster mentioned the guy who rents a dungeon. Well there’s sometimes I want/need to rent a hotel for various reasons. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve booked rooms and people have been like, “oops sorry, something came up.” Sometimes right as I was handing over my credit card. You’d almost think they were watching me secretly pay for it first, only to cancel.
 
It only takes 1 button for a hotel to take money out of my account, but it takes a whole lot of excuses and 3-5 business days to get the money back if I ask to cancel. I had that happen in Jacksonville last year. Paid for a 2nd night when I was planning to just leave and go back to Orlando, the client ended up being full of shit...so I had to make up a story of why I needed to cancel the reservation I just made. I paid with my cash app card, and somehow they ended up DEDUCTING money from my balance instead of refunding it, in ADDITION to what I just paid. It took a whole week to clear it up.
 
That’s the type of shit that makes me ask for deposits. And if someone passes up, that may just well save me some aggravation.
 
So nowadays, unless I’m already in a hotel or already traveling to a city with clients set up...I will ask for a deposit to host. However...in the client’s favor, I understand you don’t always know who you’re dealing with. But in my case, I have 31 RentMen reviews, versus 1 or 2. I used to have written reviews on Men4Rent/Cruising for escorts...and even then I was asking for deposits if I deemed necessary.
 
And every since I’ve started asking for deposits more (again, not talking $500 or even $100), something easy I can pay back if I can’t make it...I even been cutting down on having to ask for cancellation fees. I don’t have time to be chasing people down, cursing them out, getting all mad and high blood pressured. I rather just charge the cover at time of contact, and avoid all the extra stress.

Well again, obviously that’s an exorbitant amount and doesn’t speak for all asking a deposit. And that’s the point I was making about this whole thread...nobody is talking how much is being asked. There’s a difference between $50 and a $500.
 
The point is to weed out flakes and/or prioritize the time arrangements of “confirmed” clients over “inquiries”. Not to make a down payment.

@DanteV, thank you for that useful perspective for us as clients. By all means we can have our views on whether or not to pay a deposit (or at the start of a session for that matter), but it is what it is. The gentleman may have established that it works for him, he may be new in the business and still be feeling his way (as it were). We can express our reluctance to pay, but sounding off in here doesn't really achieve anything. It may sway some escorts who read and/or comment on our conversations, but I suspect that the amount of heat it generates in here is vastly greater than the effect said heat has on escort business models. Like so many other characteristics and practices of the gentlemen we seek to meet, take them as they are, decline to accept what they offer or how, or make an exception because what you see is desirable enough for you to override your normal choices. If something we don't like doesn't work, it would stop. This practice hasn't stopped.

Count your blessings honey, at least Ed Buck didn’t call you out there in LA!
 
Plus with the supposed fears of Bubonic Plague due to the booming rat population from the homeless, due to the LA exorbitant cost of living, I think LA could be dead for ALOT of people lol.
 
 
Jokes aside, I actually met a “celebrity” new client from LA over the weekend: 1,600 miles away. He wants me to come out there at some point. I said, I’m not quite in a hurry to lol. Because when I went back in April, I only went because I had a free place to stay for 4 days and some change to play with.
 
My motto for LA is, if you want to meet a client from LA, you have to meet them outside of LA lol. Meet them in San Diego or Palm Springs if you must. Forget about them being able to find you there unless you just really planted there for awhile.

From the consumer side, it can be quite confusing.
 
Some guys put up very specific dates (Boston 9/2-9/7, Hartford 9/7-9/9, etc.) and then don't follow their own itineraries! I once had a long back and forth trying to arrange to see a guy the next night in Chicago (where his post said he was) - when all else was settled, he started in about how we would procure his ticket for Dallas to Chicago..... Another New York guy had his page saying he was in Paris for weeks after he had returned.
 
So it makes sense to me that we consumers are first going to want to establish the provider's whereabouts before getting into any other specifics.

Just remember: when people are coming across RentMen, they are likely browsing more X rated material. You can be low key, but it’s not OkCupid or ChristianMingle.
 

 
All good points for sure. Although, I always say there’s an exception to every rule. Couple of things you mentioned don’t always apply, but of course things change overtime and have to be updated (for example, talking to someone by phone before meeting. I can generally get around that because it’s easy to be able to verify someone before I even open the door or leave the house). And nowadays, the ones who call on the phone seem to be more prone to wasting our time than those who text. Especially the ones who call over and over. Like some idiot from Michigan called me several times between 7 and 730 am. Fortunately, I’ve learned to press the silent ring/send to voicemail button in my sleep.
 
But I’m curious what’s your input in this thread about deposits which is currently running:
 
https://m4m-forum.org/threads/escort-requesting-a-deposit.152148/

Lol, too late...already sent via FB messenger. BUT, I included both because I didn’t want to seem like I was ganging up on either, and I know whatever I tell my friend, he’s going to tell his partner. I know how relationships go especially if they live together lol.
 
They ended up responding well. Couple of days later, My friend’s partner said: “You do you! I’m sorry I said things that were demeaning, unmotivating, and unhelpful”. My friend said he wished we’d of had that conversation earlier while I was there.
 
...but I pretty much went over why in a previous post.
 

 
That’s true. But that’s why I don’t mix with a lot of people in the community. There’s still a lot of judgmental ness in the scene. They may say they don’t mind or they don’t judge off the bat, but they inevitably end up passing on some “ideas” about things that tend to rub me the wrong way.
 
But these 2 friends in particular I know they come from a good place. After this, I’m sure they know now that it’s not a subject to bring up with me.

I couldn’t agree more. Many times guys who are judgmental are just trying to “out family values” someone with words instead actions. @Mocha Ortega y Gasset said you are yourself in your circumstances. You’re providing a valuable service and it’s not of their concern what you do for a living.

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