Occasional

Reminded me of a notorious vice bust many years ago here in London. Prostitution per se is not illegal in England, for a single provider working in private. Beyond that, there's a forest of legal no-nos: soliciting in public, pimping, running a brothel, and the quaint 'living on immoral earnings' which, I recall, once saw a respectable businessman convicted (and upheld on appeal) because his tenant was - unknown to him - working as a prostitute from the flat he'd rented to her, so that the rent he received from her was 'immoral'. But I digress. From https://www.thejusticegap.com/a-very-bad-case-of-brothel-keeping/ " In her home [in suburban London] [Cynthia Payne] held sex parties ... a flat fee included food, drink, a film, a live show and the sexual services of one woman. The fame of Cynthia’s parties spread and women who sought to sell sexual services were attracted to her establishment, some of those present at the premises [when the police raided] on 4th December 1978 were there simply to earn extra cash for Christmas. But this very British carry-on came to an end after an anonymous letter was sent to police. The simple offence of keeping a brothel would have only allowed a magistrate to sentence her at most to six months in prison and so [the police] relied on an offence which existed at common law ... the offence of keeping a disorderly house. The definition of that offence dated back to 1751, but the offence itself dated back to the time of [King] Henry 3rd [reigned 1216-1272] , when parliament became concerned that a group of women had set up a brothel just south of Fleet Street [in London] and close to a Friary. When Cynthia Payne appeared at the ... Inner London Crown Court, in April 1979 she faced 21 charges and was represented by [a] prominent human rights barrister ... She pleaded guilty to only three charges of controlling prostitution and one of keeping a disorderly house. The facts put before the court, which were undisputed, were that those present on the day of her arrest were all consenting adults who chose to be there. It was accepted by the prosecution that Cynthia [Payne] had not recruited the women. There was no question of coercion or corruption by her. The clients knew perfectly well what they were doing, none of the neighbours complained and the women were not obliged to have sex and could say no. It was a safe establishment for them to trade in with no dangers. The police superintendent in charge of the case gave evidence to the court that Cynthia’s clients were principally middle aged and elderly business men, managing directors [=CEOs] accountants, barristers, solicitors [=attorneys, lawyers], a member of parliament [lawmaker] for Ireland, a member of the House of Lords and not to forget several vicars [=priests]. " ----- Payne was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment (reduced to six months on appeal) and none of the men were charged - there was nothing to charge them with. Word at the time was that the very highest-profile customers were discreetly shown out of the back door by the police when they raided and never appeared on the list of customer names. That list was never made public, although it was produced to the judges in the case. Conspicuous by its absence in the categories of customer above is ... ... judges. Enough said.

I actually ask the provider to count it "to save any misunderstanding". With modern plastic banknotes that can stick together, it's as much for my benefit as theirs!

Fine sentiments. I agree with them But - what exactly *is* being asked? When I speak with a new potential hire (London) and ask his rate, I often hear something like "well .. it's .. er .. £250" or even ".. it's usually £250" . That's clearly a rate not fixed in stone. That's what I say, and I usually hear "what is your budget?", to which I reply "it's £200, how would that sit with you if we don't f--k?" Usually I get acceptance. And that avoids the session being affected by the provider feeling that he's been "talked down". And leaves the door open, in the session, to 'upgrade' the session to full-fee if I decide I'd like the missing piece of the jigsaw to be included. Works for me, YMMV

If you create a free account with Sleepyboy, after logging in you'll find an option "Make a Request", which leads to a page where you can post a message that all escorts can see. I was pleasantly surprised when I used that facility some time ago to say I was seeking a provider who was definitely into my kink, rather than simply including it in the list of options on their profile and being perfunctory and transactional when it came to it. I had a number of thoughful and encouraging replies from providers, which helped me forward. Maybe that might work for you, too? Also DM'd you.

Both of those escorts have a list of reviews as long as your arm, which tends not to be a good sign on Sleepboy i.e. they are likely self-generated. The giveaway is when nearly all of an escort's reviews are EITHER one- or two- liners, OR all lengthy with flowery prose incorporating many superlatives. The difference is well borne out when running your eye down the reviews for each of those escorts!

I live and hire in London. This thread has brought into sharper focus for me that there does seem to be a considerable degree of mutual antipathy in London between Braziian escorts and non-Brazilian escorts. The root of it, as far as I can tell from occasional comments that (non-Brazilian) escorts have made to me over the years, is that the Brazilians have flooded the market with their extra 'supply', which puts downward pressure on rates and/or reduces the amount of business the average escort can expect. Another sneer is that newly arriving Brazilians get drawn into the drug scene by their peers already in London, wreck their health and their ability to perform sexualy, and exit the market in relatively short order, a shadow of what they were. How much of that is actually true, I couldn't really say. But, to the extent that it is, if you have 'asked a few escorts', I could see the Brazilians drawing you in to the PNP mode of escorting, by default. And if you ask non-Brazilian escorts, they would have a vested interest in pushing you the same way - partly sterotyping you, partly nudging you into a short-and-not-sweet escorting career, reducing the competition, especially for building a solid base of longer-term repeating clients. What to do then in London? Well, I would create a profile on Sleepyboy. And make sure you complete it fully, including the 'Activities' and 'Fetish' sections (an increasing proportion of new sign-ups to Sleepyboy don't, which only leaves you guessing what their parameters and boundaries are). Don't feel you have to tick every box - an escort who (supposedly) is in to everything for everyone is in reality more likely to be a performative player with no real interest or enthusiasm. Anything you particualrly like, mention in your profile text. Anyhting you don't do, ditto - and, to meet the stereotype head-on, that would include saying that you don't do drugs and don't meet clients who do. And -let me know when you're next in London 😉

What sort of "action"? 😉

No problem. By analogy with "No dogs allowed. Except guide dogs". Or, in a life insurance policy, the condition that voids payout if death is a result of "self-exposure to exceptional peril". And goes on to say " .. except in an attempt to save human life". One might speculate that the courts would imply that exception into the policy anyway, on public interest grounds. As they well might with gathering photographic evidence of a no-photography infraction.

Wristband?! What's needed is a bold mark in body paint or crayon to one buttock (or both). Red or green 😉 Belt and braces (suspenders) would be a (red) cross or a (green) tick, to help guide the 7% of men who are colour-blind.

Makes perfect sense to me, both the offer and the acceptance. Really, the 300 first hour/ 500 two hours structure is 100 'setup fee' for freshening up and preparing generally on the provider's own time, then 200 for each hour of the client's actual presence. Sometimes, with a new provider where I've booked an hour, I've asked around the halfway mark whether we can go over the hour on the basis of (in the above example) any excess being paid proportionately to 200/hour, so we can relax into the session without clock-watching, just letting it take its course. Generally, there's been agreement,, and I always then settle immediately before leaving and I round up in the provider's favour - rather than pulling out a calculator;-) - as a thank-you for the flexibility (tipping isn't a thing in London).

But the reason might be one you can live with. It can be a case of "cheap but cheerful" or even, quite easily with a bit of care, "good value for money". Example: located well away from central London, Zone 3* Tube (metro) station, and not near at all even to that station (but a short drive from me). Hence ruled out straight away by the majority of punters. Well into thirties (no problem for me), body not gym-toned but far from gone to seed. Poor marketing (I told him to log on daily to his Sleepyboy profile, and update it at least weekly even just by changing a single word, so that 'Last Online' and 'Last Updated' look 'fresh' - ignored). But gave me the hardest pounding I think I've ever had, after starting with a professional-quality massage. What's not to like? * concentric zones on the Tube for fare purposes, from 1 (central) to 6 (very much outer suburbs) - social cachet and willingness to travel from the centre drop off from zone 1 to 2, and more sharply from 2 to 3.

... especially if, as part of the repeatedly-suggested advance communication with the escort, you make it clear that his gym time is to be spent flaunting himself dressed in short lycra tights with no more than a four-inch inseam, skin-tight crop top and knee-length white socks, so you can discreetly work up a lust for him stretching and bending as he lifts weights

How dare you be so rude to me… As a fellow Brit, I would opine that Mike Carey's words were in fact not rude within British culture. Not when written, nor indeed when spoken - unless accompanied by a slight hint of undue emphasis, or other subtle innuendo of facial expression. Now, if he'd said "How very interesting!", it would be a different matter altogether ... 😉

Yes, a couple of times. My attitude is that they're simply in the wrong line of work. I don't hire them again. I am of retirement age (a fact I always share before a new hire), but I work out regularly, am well groomed, have a Body Mass Index at the low end of normal and I am courteous. I don't pretend to myself that I'm God's gift to men, but I've no wish to pay for a provider who is simply seeking to monetise their sex life.

There are two sorts of 'not great' The first sort is 'not really matching up to what I'd hoped for'. Perhaps, with a new provider, no real chemistry. He delivered, but somewhat perfunctory. The analogy with a restauarnt could be "it had good reviews, but for me it was nothing special". The second sort is simply not being in a position to deliver what the deal involved. Not just an 'off day', but 'out of it'. The fact that the provider "blamed it on being high" shows that he recognised that he wasn't in a position to deliver. Not just an 'off day' - tired, half-hard perhaps, but right 'out of it' - no chance. The analogy with a restaurant might be "you ordered the highly-reviewed chef's special, yes, but we were out of it. I'll 'fess up - we gave you an equivalent supermarket ready-meal we had for emergencies in our freezer". How the client proceeds - and how an honourable provide should respond - is very different in the differing situations.

.. which is hardly a professional attitude in their line of work. One of the big advantages of hiring is that one can choose to hire a provider who suits one's current mood and inclinations. Today, a smooth slim twink who is ready and willing to take it .. Next week, a heavy muscular bodybuilder type who wll pin you down with his bodyweight and give it to you .. And if you've an itch to scratch the week after with a particular kink, it's good to be able to hire a provider who is also into what you're looking for ..

... and also helped to decide the scope and range of his business offering. And the interaction between that scope, and [his] price. Some escorts charge a premium for overnights because they don't particularly want to do them. But, for the right price, they will do them - and, being professionals, will then deliver their usual quality service. Some escorts just don't do overnights at all - and that is their prerogative.

That doesn't mean it was true!

There's a third. Wait until a provider is online, then send an SMS asking if it's convenient ro ring "for a short call to clear up a couple of points" and stating that you've read their profile in full. Works for me.

Following this thread, and feeling compassion for the guys who get hooked emotionally on their provider. This thread has made me realise (if I ever doubted it - which from time to time I have, fleetingly) that I really am not closet-gay. I just like cock, occasionally! Doesn't mean that I'm purely transactional with providers. Friends? No. But a friendly demeanour, some relaxed chat? - yes. Look forward to seeing favourites again? Yes. Heavily on my mind? No. Paradoxically, I feel I get closer to an enjoyable 'boyfriend experience' with those providers who can sense that what I'm paying them for is to leave - physically and emotionally - after the session, rather than paying them to [try to] buy my way into emotional involvement with them. I guess the other side of that coin is that some providers with whom I have only a so-so experience, would prefer to sense emotional involvement from the client, so as to get a hooked-up frequent regular.

Indeed so. "Yes, I can do that for you" is a rather offputting response to a kink enquiry. Pretty well says 'I tolerate' rather than 'I enjoy'.. or sometimes "anything and everything". Which pretty well says "I can do more or less anything for you", but says nothing about the enthusiasm with which it will be done. I like to see profiles that show willingness towards a range of kink, but not mindless ticking of pretty well every possibility that the site offers as an option. Coupled with some mention in the profile of what the provider really enjoys. Not many providers do the latter, no doubt because for a provider ...

Doesn't matter whether or not the provider has friends etc. Being hit up for money by a provider is the inverse of a client seeing the client-provider relationship as something other than what it actually is (as has been discussed quite a lot recently on this board - 'falling for' provider, hoping for 'off the clock' with provider etc). The client-provider relationship is a mutully agreed, bounded transaction. That cuts both ways. And keep it that way.

Negatives on Sleepyboy profiles include: - profile not showing the blue "Verified" bar under the provider's name at the top - minimal profile content - just enough to get registered. In particular, "Activities" and "Fetish" sections completely missing; short, cursory "me too" wording in the "About Me" section, no 'flavour' of there being a real individual behind the profile; - newness - not enough time to have been complained about and kicked off the site (number of views less than the low-to-mid thousands) - any reference to rates being "menu-driven" - expect then a commoditised, transactional experience. - poor command of English (either explicitly stated in the relevant standard question, or implicit from the fluency of the profile) Positives: - rates are stated (not "ask me") - although increasingly uncommon - verified photos are available to viewers (from the blue 'verified' bar mentioned above) - a thorough "About Me" - profile wording is not tightly limited on Sleepyboy - eg see https://www.sleepyboy.com/uk/london/escort/scsbw for an example of how it should be done! Worth googling the phone number to see if the provider appears on multiple escort websites, which might give further information and/or hints as to newness. Where are you in the UK that you have to travel an hour to meet a provider?

There's enough London pricing information in the public domain to get a good feel for 'the going rate' Advanced Search Sleepyboy WWW.SLEEPYBOY.COM Transgender Escorts London | Trans Escorts London | Advanced Shemale Escort Search – find the hottest and hardest Trans Escorts in your area Scroll down to last item under "General", tick "Only if Rates Stated", back to top, then under "Search Options" choose "Distance" and then under "Postcode" enter a Central London postcode - your hotel, or eg SW1A 1AA [Buckingham Palace 😉 ], then click yellow button "Search Escorts". The "only if rates stated" option was introduced a few years ago at my request to try to stem the trend towards fewer published rates. I think it should have been displayed more prominently. The going rate in London for an incall is currently £200-£250 per hour. More than that, and the provider really needs to have something to set him apart. Less than that, down to £150, need not be cause for concern, lower still at the £120 mark can be "OK" but unlikely to be mind-blowing. I occasionally see one provider fairly local to me at £120, and it's - well, it's "OK". The trend to incomplete profiles now extends to many profiles omitting the "Activities" and "Fetishes" sections, completion of which is presumably not compulsory so are ignored by the Entitled Generation who expect their phone to ring off the hook as soon as their incomplete profile is published. Don't forget that tipping is not expected in London. In the UK, tipping is for poorly-paid, overworked service workers who are EMPLOYED. The SELF-employed are not tipped - they trade on their reputation, good service gets referrals and repeat business.

This might be an example of cognitive dissonance in the provider. I've met a few full-service providers over the years who like to feel that they are 'different' from the 'usual' 'hookers/ sluts/ [insert choice of contemptuous epithet]'. Sometimes this is based on them supposedly having a 'different attitude', sometimes on them being 'selective' who they see, sometimes on premium pricing. And sometimes for no reason at all that I could discern! Presenting oneself as a masseur, rather than a full-service provider, bolsters the 'not a hooker' mindframe, even if the advert talks about erotic massage. After all, what does that mean, exactly? The provider can tell himself that he's different, selective, yadda yadda, and that the client is booking - massage! If more happens, the provider tells himself that it was because he chose to allow it to happen (which may not be so far from the reality, actually). An enquirer explicitly seeking 'more' - so that 'more' is baked in before the client and provider even meet - is then like lobbing a grenade into the carefully cultivated, carefully defended, "I'm different" mindset.