SouthOfTheBorder

agree - and there is a Brazilian crime problem, which may be comparable to some other places. Then there is a separate & different Rio crime problem against tourists that is unique, mainly due to geography & demographics: meaning a couple of very small beachfront areas where wealthy foreign tourists congregate, which are surrounded & adjacent to several high-crime favelas. Then add a very corrupt Rio police force & it’s creates the perfect conditions for crimes on tourists en masse. There is no other global tourist destination with these unique dynamics at play. Of course, it’s important to note many of Rio tourists are seeking paid sexual encounters with unknown people and/or seeking out drugs. What exactly would anyone think could happen under these circumstances ? To try to make a comparison, start with major global sex tourist destinations that have millions of wealthy foreign tourists descending in a tiny area surrounded by the most violent high crime/extreme poverty areas in the subject country. Hint: there is no other place with all the same variables and the corresponding crime against tourists. Lots of people here don’t want to acknowledge the additional risks that exist for sex-tourists in Rio, visiting Copacabana and/or Ipanema. Much better to be realistic about it & prepare vs “it could happen anywhere” I’ve been to Rio at least a dozen times. And it was great when I was younger. Now, I no longer wish to vacation in a place that requires so much extra vigilance & extra security considerations. It’s just not fun or relaxing. São Paulo is now my Brazilian destination of choice, without all the crime & close-in favelas. Easy to get into trouble in SP too, but much less likely. Stay in Jardins near Paulista and then crime equals or is less in comparable areas in major European cities btw - hotels & restaurants in Rio are dumps compared to SP.

I have no doubt that many providers are treated poorly by clients - either flaking, stalking and/or other inappropriate behavior. When things don’t go the clients way, then Karen comes out to get revenge - and that happens here, unfortunately. I know of at least two members here that use this forum to actively stalk providers - they also stalk some other members here. Some have openly threatened people in these threads. Does that sound stable ? Let’s be real - there are unstable members here, too. It’s not just some of the providers.

agree - yet, there are multiple posts here from people doing precisely that. some might think it’s cool to do a “favela tour”. or, they think the American media has wildly overblown the criminal elements in the favelas. And then there are just some really stupid people

agree the maps were to make two points: first, in Rio the tourist areas are surrounded by favelas & adjacent, thus the need to be extra vigilant. second, the situation is completely different in SP where favelas are nowhere close to tourist areas. it was to illustrate the difference between the two cities for those who don’t get it. It’s a subject of ongoing debate here for some reason

waiting for the edit

the member referenced has a long history of verbose/pretentious/incomprehensible ramblings that he posts mainly because he has so much time, evidently. an expert on everything, yet all his time devoted to various online forums - this is just one. he’s actually improved a bit lately (believe it or not) because he’s still carrying on the charade that he’s not operating under several aliases, here & elsewhere. Nobody is supposed to know, but basically everyone does. FWIW where art thou Riobard ?? As for the OP question - I think a reliable sex-worker is more fastidious about their health & preventative measures than the average person on the apps, condoms or not. Everyone has different preferences & it’s not productive living in fear and/or shaming others for their choices.

and then there’s JD Daniels - and the notorious Escort of the Year I never really understood the drama ??

agree. And I’d say from experience that at least 40%-50% providers arrive late with a variety of reasons. I don’t mind 15-20 minutes, when it gets to be an hour or more, then it’s just rude. In NYC they will usually blame it on the trains. In LA, it’s ALWAYS traffic. Might be true some of the time. But some just seem over-scheduled & figure that the client will wait vs start the entire process over again with someone else. Now I usually let them know when confirming the appointment that I have a firm start time with other things to do after. I also ask which part of town they’re coming from to understand the commute. If I get the sense that arrival time will be an issue, I tell them more than 20 min late and I’ll have to cancel. Problem solved. If I’m going to them, they get the same exact courtesy - I get there on time. As for getting lost - pretty easy to troubleshot that if the provider or client knows that getting to their place can be confusing. Then you give extra instructions to minimize chances for getting “lost”.

agree & that makes sense. it’s easy to identify favelas and place them on a map for reference. much more difficult to show areas of dangerous street crime because that likely fluctuates a bit - except in SP, maybe for the area in front of Se, which seems entrenched. last time i was in SP, i visited Se/Cracklandia & Luz during the day. However, I was with two Brazilian friends from SP and even they were extremely cautious and wanted to get out of there fast. A gringo (anyone not Brazilian) who doesn’t speak Portuguese venturing into these areas (high crime areas and/or favelas) is a recipe for disaster. But, I’m absolutely sure many will do it anyway.

you’re really overthinking this. an abundance of caution is always a good idea when meeting someone new, but hotel staff in general, have seen just about everything and you are very unlikely to have a problem with that. The hotel staff won’t give anyone a second look unless they somehow appear to be entirely out-of-place or some other bizarre behavior. If I’m meeting someone new at hotel, I always meet them in the lobby or preferably in the bar in full view of hotel staff. There are two reasons. First, I want to make sure everything is ok with the provider - meaning he looks his pics, he’s not on drugs or anything else that may cause me to decline the appointment. If I decline the appointment for any reason at that point, I’d pay half the fee for my decision to cancel without receiving any services. Second - I want the hotel staff to see me with this person in public. This creates a situation where the provider knows he has been seen with me & it lessens the probability anything bad could happen. It’s still possible, but less likely. It’s all about your personal safety. Noise from hotel rooms is common - kids screaming, TVs very loud, parties in rooms, etc. Hotel staff will intervene only when a guest complains and then only if it’s at night when people are trying to sleep. They call the room first and usually politely ask you to curtail the noise - they do not call police as a first step & would only do that in an ongoing egregious situation when you refuse to comply. The chances of police at your door are just about zero. If this is your first time, then of course there will be anxiety and some fear of the unknown. Just remember your personal safety comes first always and prioritize that, not what the hotel staff might think. They do not care.

correct - also it’s interesting to look at the maps of favelas in Rio & São Paulo for comparison, that was compiled by US Embassy in Brazil. Maps of U.S. Citizen Caution Areas - U.S. Embassy & Consulates in Brazil BR.USEMBASSY.GOV The caution area maps shown below were created to help U.S. Citizens travelers avoid potentially... In Rio, there are several favelas directly adjacent to tourist areas in Copacabana & Ipanema - and others in Zona Sul. The favelas are literally on top of the areas where wealthy foreign tourists gather in a very small geographic area. By contrast - there are no favelas anywhere close to areas in São Paulo where most tourists stay. This partially explains the crime differential tourists may experience between Rio & SP, with Rio being more dangerous or more simply where a tourist is more likely to be a crime victim. Of course, if a tourist in São Paulo ventures into the more seedy areas like Republica although not technically a favela - the likelihood of crime greatly increases. It’s really not complicated- although seems to be an endless subject of conversation here. Your chances of being a crime victim are exponentially greater in Rio, compared to SP, assuming you stay & move about in areas that are common to most tourist visits. The wild card, of course is how careful or careless the tourist may be. All things being equal, SP is way safer.

I chuckle at the irony of your comment - which to me seems ultimately an attempt at normalizing, condoning, endorsing use of crystal meth. comparing it to the main subject matter of this forum is a false equivalency. Hiring providers is legally problematic in only a few countries (mainly US) and the clients generally aren’t on a path of addiction and/or self-destruction. While I’m aware of some who may have a sexual addiction, I’ve never heard of support groups or programs for those trying to escape addiction to providers. Contrast that with the known health crisis of crystal meth use & addiction throughout the US (and many other countries) & especially in the gay community. Go to any major US city and find multiple CMA meetings for those trying to beat their addiction. For those who want to do it, then by all means go do it. And I suppose that requires a certain level of self-delusion to somehow think things will be different for you. Btw - most meth users say they do it because they can then do things they wouldn’t normally do sober. Think about that. Links below from New York Times re: gay meth crisis and City of New York meth fact sheet https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/22/opinion/gay-meth-addiction.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare Gay Men Are Dying From a Crisis We’re Not Talking About https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/survey/msm-crystal-meth-2023.pdf

From the US Embassy in Brazil: the country of Brazil is designated as Level 2 which means “Exercise Increased Caution” Then there are additional warnings for specific areas such as favelas & they are designated as Level 4 which means “DO NOT TRAVEL”. US Embassy & other US government personnel are forbidden to enter these areas. Link below for maps of several Brazilian cities showing the known favelas Maps of U.S. Citizen Caution Areas - U.S. Embassy & Consulates in Brazil BR.USEMBASSY.GOV The caution area maps shown below were created to help U.S. Citizens travelers avoid potentially... Informal Housing Developments (commonly known as “Favelas”) – Level 4: Do Not Travel Do not travel to informal housing developments (commonly referred to in Brazil as favelas, vilas, comunidades, and/or conglomerados), even on a guided tour. Neither the tour companies nor the police can guarantee your safety when entering these communities. Even in these communities that the police or local governments deem safe, the situation can change quickly and without notice. While some informal housing developments have clear boundaries or gates, or even names such as “favela”, “vila”, “comunidade”, or “conglomerado”, other such developments may be less obvious, and may be identified by crowded quarters, poorer conditions, and/or irregular construction. In addition, exercise caution in areas surrounding these communities, as occasionally, inter-gang fighting and confrontations with police move beyond the confines of these communities. Except under limited circumstances and with advance approval, U.S. government personnel are not permitted to enter any informal housing developments in Brazil.

true - and those same people are terrorized by the gangs & drug dealers that actually run the favelas. nobody lives there by choice because of the dire circumstances. I guess naive tourists could somehow perceive it differently. one of the purposes of this forum is to try to help others stay out of trouble when traveling to destinations discussed. In this case Rio. You evidently know more than the locals, the Brazilian media and all the members here who have shared their actual experiences Bravo for the Oscar award winning virtue signaling performance though. Which seems to be the entire point.

In Rio, favelas are very close to almost everything - it's not an unusual thing. They surround all the popular beaches. The favelas are full of gangs, drug dealers, weapons, desperate people & immense poverty. so when they see the rich foreign tourists wandering about & some of them very stupid - of course they're going to rob them

it’s actually doing damage - leading some to think entering a favela is no big deal. there are some here that just won’t acknowledge real facts on the ground (or multiple similar reviews from unconnected people in this forum), but rather spin a different Rio reality based on a couple isolated anecdotes. All the Brazilians I know have been mugged, robbed or worse. The general attitude is that if it hasn’t happened yet, it definitely will. Your number just hasn’t come up as they say. Rio is extraordinarily dangerous - especially in tourist zones. You can still go & have a great time and not be a crime victim. Just requires a different level of vigilance. If not, they will find you. They look for stupid tourists because they are the easiest targets. And always leave town shortly after the crime.

x

and that is precisely the problem. among non-users who have friends that pnp, it’s clear that recreational users don’t see themselves or the situation accurately. They are convinced they can “handle it”. They lose friends because they change when using & in the days spent recovering. They start to hang out with other users as their non-user friends tire of the behavior. There is a lot of shame attached to the use, thus the need to hide it & be secretive. Not to mention paranoia, lack of sleep/eating - it’s actually very obvious to see when anyone is using meth. Of course, the users don’t believe this. for those recreational users who think can “manage it”, they compare themselves to the addicts who have lost jobs, homes, family & relationships. Basically like comparing a burned-out building to another building on fire & somehow thinking that is ok. If meth use is is necessary to have exciting sex, then there’s a whole lot wrong that needs fixing. And that doesn’t start until the use is curtailed. It’s an insidious drug. I’ve supported addicts in recovery through friendship & even going to CMA meetings with them. I’ve heard all the stories in those meetings. Only to see those same friends relapse and go through it all again. Meth is different than most other drugs in that it can permanently alter brain synapses, affecting speech, movement & cognitive ability. I’ve seen the end result in formerly handsome, healthy & smart men. All this talk about judgement, virtue signaling, etc distracts from the results of this drug use and unfortunately paints a benign picture of a deadly drug. btw - many of the guys in CMA meetings were providers or former providers who thought they could handle it. Of course.

I don’t agree. I’d say some people can do PNP without going down the road road to addiction & life ruining consequences. However, I’ve been around dozens of guys who do it “recreationally” and still have jobs, careers, family & relationships. That said, when they’re using - the personality changes are distinct and my observations are consistent: they get agressive, mean & beyond bitchy. It’s all about getting dick ( and there’s never enough, maybe because of limp dick unless there’s more drugs). If it turns into a run (more than 48 hours) then these people are no longer recognizable based on behavior & personality. Forget the judgment & health consequences, they’re just not fun to be around. I’ve shared houses with these types on extended vacations - an absolute nightmare. They’ve lost friendships for sure - basically because they became super assholes sounds like fun, right ???

I’m sure I’m in the minority here - but, any mention of PNP by a provider in their ad or anywhere in communications w me is an automatic hard NO. It’s difficult enough to find someone reliable & trustworthy- throw PNP into the equation and anything is possible IMO. I tend to think that if a provider (or anyone else) is that thoughtless about their own health & well-being, then mine is certainly not going to be a priority. I just don’t think it shows maturity and good judgement - absolutely something I don’t want to be around under any circumstances. And then I suppose it could impact performance. So, what exactly then is the point of any of it ?

the wait must have been acceptable, otherwise the manager would have been summoned !

same thing happened to me in BCN. It’s a strict policy there. I’ve seen it happen to other clients there many times. They’re not really rude about it - but if there is a language barrier it could come off that way. I believe they are wary of law enforcement going in & less likely to happen if everyone is in towels…among many reasons to enforce that rule.

Most seem to object to the layout of Lagoa - it’s vertical, like a smaller version of Termas BCN. However, Lagoa is fairly new (maybe 2 years old max) and it’s in a safe part of SP with very easy access to major hotels. The number of working guys varies by time/date just like all the others. Lagoa does seem built more for business than compared to more socializing at 117 & Pointe 117 & Pointe are both old facilities, albeit traditional Brazilian saunas with garotos. I’m not a fan of 117 just because I don’t like going to Gloria. Pointe is really central in Copacabana with easy access, but the neighborhood can be dangerous day & night. The saunas are more what you make of them vs what some expect to be served. For me, it’s really more about safety and there is no question the area around Lagoa is far safer than Pointe & 117 in Rio. Not even close. As for the working guys - just go on a few different nights and you’ll see that it varies and can be unpredictable. All of them should have more than enough choices to make even the demanding client happy (except a few here).

did you ask to speak to the manager ? and let them know that this world-famous sauna was just not up to your expectations ? LOL I can’t even

I have no doubt that providers getting scammed by clients is a reoccurring problem. as mentioned previously, when I briefly used a burner number the call back ratio by experienced providers was almost zero. I don’t know how they could ID a burner number, but they were able to do it. Less experienced providers were the ones responding to the burner number. I have a lot of empathy for providers, knowing how they get so many inquiries with no intention to hire. Then, an actual appointment and more BS from the client. The discussions here tend to be client focused and about providers pulling scams. I’ll bet it’s at least an equal ratio with clients scamming providers. And back to the original topic - I’ll bet plenty of providers get stalked by clients too