Strafe13

Dang, @nycman, you brought out the receipts for this one! :-D

Adam is the nicest, sweetest guy. I've spoken to him many times over the past year or two whenever I've visited LA and attended the Adonis events (only at the Fubar gay bar in West Hollywood, never at the Adonis-LA nude parties). The RM ad is relatively new, so I've never thought to ask Adam about seeing him outside of Adonis. But I can vouch for his excellent lap dance skills. He's very sensual amd affectionate, in addition to being both sexy and funny. There are certain interests that are omitted from his ad's "I Am Into" section, and it lists "ask me" for his position, so I'd caution anyone who's interested in hiring Adam to make sure you're clear as to what activities a private escort session will include. Can't wait for my next trip out to LA!

I realize now that I should have been able to take some lighthearted ribbing much better than this, @Deadlift1. That's what I get for responding at the end of a 10-hour workday. Sorry for overreacting.

That was a fun, lighthearted read. The clapbacks to the original poster were rather funny.

I love participating in this forum and engaging with fellow members, and I try to always do so in a respectful manner, even if I sometimes disagree with some folk. But thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

Thanks. I hadn't really delved into the discretion/privacy aspect as it relates to clients' professional and social lives, but I think you made some really good points on this topic. Like I said earlier, the traditional norm that professional escorts not ask clients for stats/pics, or anything else akin to what you'd expect from regular non-professional meet-ups, developed for a host of really good reasons. The implication expressed by some on this thread (and also via private conversations) that it's just the clients who have the "issue" and who're being irrational or hyper-sensitive by expressing reticence to go along with these relatively new and still rare policies, is somewhat disconnected from history and still present-day reality. These clients have legitimate concerns and feelings, and I think the best escorts recognize that and know how to avoid triggering them, or they can and will ably mitigate the potential fallout.

I think we agree on some points but I'm not quite sure due to the way you've expressed them, so allow me to clarify what I view as common ground from the points I can extrapolate from your post. I agree with you to the extent that you're saying that simply asking for stats and/or a pic doesn't necessarily mean that the escort uses that to see if the client meets his personal attraction criteria. I respectfully disagree to the extent that you may be saying that it's unreasonable for a client to view the request as potentially implying that the escort uses that to judge clients in such a fashion. In regular online dating, that is the main, if not only, reason why prospective dates ask for such info, so it's not irrational for a client to think that the escort seeks the info for the same reason, even if that's not the case. Someone had asked earlier for a suggestion on how an escort could acquire the information in a way that acknowledges the client's discomfort and sets their minds at ease. I couldn't think of it at the time, but maybe one way is for the escort to explain at the outset, either in his ad when he lists the policy, or when he first asks the client, that he seeks the info for reasons completely unrelated to the judgment or discretion issues that may cause such clients pause. In addition, for younger more tech savvy clients who're adept with smartphones, perhaps they could send a pic to the escort using the SnapChat app, which deletes pics & messages after the conversations end. If I recall correctly, one of the earliest posters on this thread recounted one horrific way where, in a very curt response to the initial client contact, the escort just bluntly asked for stats, occupation, and maybe a pic too. That sounds like a terrible business practice, and also reflects poorly on the escort's decorum. It's just incredibly tacky and insensitive. This is supposed to be an intimate professional service, is it not? I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with suggesting that a client issue a disclaimer in his initial contact telling escorts that he doesn't provide pics or stats. It just strikes me as impractical for two reasons: 1) since the pics/stats request is still relatively rare amongst escorts, it might come across as bizarre; and 2) as a general matter, businesses or service providers are the ones to inform the clientele of their policies, particularly when it's a deviation from the norm. Moreover, if the policy is meant to apply across the board rather than only in specific instances, I'd think that the ad meant to attract clients would be the most natural place to disclose such a universal policy in an efficient manner, instead of doing so for every single first contact with the client. The idea that a client should prophylactically tell all potential escort hires that he refuses to comply with a policy that may not even exist, and most escorts likely don't even use, just sounds so strange to me. It seems so much simpler to have the escort who demands stats/pics say so in his ad, and that way those clients who are uncomfortable with it for whatever reason, can avoid those escorts or still choose to engage with them and address that issue. To be clear, I've never said I was offended by the stats/pic request (as much as I find it to be weird and out-of-place in the professional escorting field). In fact, I've met with some escorts who've asked for that, and despite my initial misgivings, it wasn't that big of a deal. My point is only that irrespective of whatever judgment some may have as to the sensitivities/concerns of some clients who don't want to disclose that, it seems so obvious to me that a substantial portion of clients would have some issue with such requests. That's why I don't think it's a coincidence that the historical norm, at least among the best, most highly regarded and well-reviewed M4M professional escorts, has been to not ask for such info. Hence, with respect to the minority of escorts who have such a policy, I'm surprised they don't have a better way of broaching the subject in a way to alleviate those clients' reservations, so as to broaden their clientele base. In closing (cuz I've spent way too much time on this thread), I'll say this. There's no absolute right or wrong here, and if younger escorts seem to be establishing a new trend, then so long as the business model works well, then more power to them. I also hope that those clients who fear or dislike such disclosure find a way to overcome it or at least reach a happy compromise on the matter, so that they can enjoy the broadest variety of professional M4M escorts. There are some really great escorts out there, some of whom may have similar policies, including two of my more recent (and really, really good) hires. Had I just excluded those two because the stats/pic and deposit requests struck me as strange and a bit invasive, I would have missed out on some of the greatest intimate experiences of my life. Sometimes risks yield great rewards. Good day, gentlemen.

Because it's the escort's policy, not the client's. It also happens to be a policy that deviates from the norm. It's been my experience and that of most posters (both clients and escorts) as expressed in these kinds of threads over the years, that the vast majority of escorts don't ask for stats and pics of clients. Why would clients prepare and utilize your proposed "I don't provide stats/pics" disclaimer as a standard in their initiatory communications with escorts, when it's rarely even applicable? It would likely only make them look paranoid, high maintenance, or "off" to most escorts who don't give a crap about stats/pics anyway. If an escort is going to institute this kind of policy, and he really believes there's nothing wrong with it and that it should be standard or unremarkable, then he should have no problem listing it outright in his ad so as to spare clients from requests that they might deem offensive at worst, or tacky and classless at best. Your strong reaction suggests that you think it would look bad to list such a policy in an escort's ad. If this is so, then isn't it possible that the policy is not as benign as you've made it out to be? This reminds me of the debate that pops up in the forum every year or so about escorts who engage in racial discrimination against certain clients. There are always defenders who say that the discriminated against client is too sensitive and should just be glad that he found out before the appointment. As to the 2nd point, fair enough. But when these defenders are asked why the racist escorts don't just state their racial exclusions upfront in their ads so as to avoid the inevitable confrontation (be it in-person or by text/e-mails/phone calls) and the client's resulting offense and/or hurt feelings, they immediately reject that as a reasonable solution. I'm not trying to equate racial discrimination to this stats/pics issue, but I think the similar reluctance to have the escort list the offending policy* in his ad reveals something about how we subconsciously know that the policy may not be so wonderful, and that the offended clients may not be just overly sensitive drama queens. *I say "offending policy" here only to describe the stats/pics policy that's the subject of this discussion. I don't mean to say that the policy of asking clients for their stats and/or pics is inherently offensive, as is one that categorically excludes potential customers on the basis of race or ethnicity.

I agree with @big-n-tall that some escorts may legitimately feel that threesomes require more work. I think that depends on the type of session, and the roles each person is expected to play. If one escort is being hired as a bottom to be brutally dominated by you and a big-dicked top escort, I could sympathize with the poor guy's feeling that he needs additional compensation. On the other hand, if you're a total bottom who's hiring two top escorts to just totally go to town on you, then it doesn't strike me as either one performing significantly more work so as to warrant an additional fee. There are any other number of additional scenarios that could warrant different outcomes. You should have a frank discussion with each potential hire to lay out what they're expected to do. Only then can you decide whether one guy's upcharge is reasonable or ridiculous. And any difference in hourly fees should not be your issue. If escort A charges $250/hour and escort B charges $300/hour, you pay each in accordance with his respective rate. If escort A wants to make B's rate, then he should charge it. He doesn't get to piggyback his way to a higher rate just because he fortuitously happens to get hired to work with B.

That makes more sense in private dating, but when dealing with a purportedly professional escort, I think most of us expect a far higher level of customer service. Can't these guys save that drama for Grindr, Scruff, or the other regular dating/hookup apps and websites? Who the heck is trying to deal with that mess when hiring? For so many of us, the whole point of hiring is to be able to avoid all of that drama. In any event, as I suggested during our private conversation, this need to ascertain the client's level of attractiveness is the escort's issue, and not the client's. I therefore think that while some clients can follow your advice, the service provider should be the one to say clearly in his ad that he'll be requesting pics and/or stats during the initial text or e-mail conversations. That way, the clients who don't like that can avoid this entire drama at the beginning by just contacting those escorts who don't have such limitations. As an aside, this issue strikes me as if it evinces a bit of a generational shift. Although I'm probably one of the younger client-contributors on this forum, I've been on it and the predecessor site since the very early 2000s. It seems to me that historically, the most highly regarded escorts typically didn't engage in this parsing of clients, but instead treated their M4M escorting business as open to all guys so long as the basic hygiene and safety requirements were meet. I get the impression that this newer generation of escorts comes to the table with an entirely different set of expectations and business practices. I'm not certain yet whether that's good or bad as a whole, but change is constant, as the saying goes.

It looks to me like you're being intentionally provocative, and that you were unnecessarily insensitive and dismissive of that poster's expression of why he gets uncomfortable when escorts ask him for stats. Then you caught an attitude when I pointed out that there was nothing wrong with that poster's post, and that he explained himself well enough. You've since changed the goal posts by claiming that I was saying something that I never said, or even intimated. Then, to top it off, you ignored my offer of my own personal example of how a really good escort managed my fears, which I presented in a good faith effort to move the discussion forward by moving past mere criticism to show a constructive example. You instead responded by saying that I, a client, "could try" to suggest how escorts should best deal with their clients' fears and anxieties. That was completely disingenuous, and you already know that. You've consistently demonstrated that on this thread at least, you're primarily interested in making passive-aggressive, insulting comments towards your fellow forum members, rather than engaging with us in good faith. That's unfortunate, and I wish that you hadn't reacted so negatively to my defending of that poster. What you characterized as "lecturey," was actually my diplomatic effort to refrain from criticizing your posts more directly, by using harsher language, because I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's a shame that you took it that way. Have a good night, sir.

I'm not an escort, so my opinion on how to best approach clients on a sensitive issue is of limited value. This is the Ask An Escort section of the forum. I imagine that there are several professionals who participate here who could satisfy your request for suggestions on how to best deal with the issue. P.S., I think I did my part by offering my personal experience with an escort who did offer a better way to address a vetting procedure that is likely to cause clients to feel uncomfortable.

I've never suggested anything, nor was that the point of my response to your initial post. I've said that the best escorts have a super empathic power of sorts, and that I'm surprised more of them haven't utilized it to either avoid asking for stats or find a more diplomatic and sensitive way to seek such info. I never claimed to have that power. By analogy, I recently met with a new escort in LA who has a policy to request a deposit from new clients, as well as a brief telephone conversation. I was uncomfortable with the deposit, but he capably explained his reasoning behind the policy in texts, and then I was so reassured after we spoke on the phone, that I went ahead with the appointment and had a fabulous time. This guy knew how to address my concerns and ease my fears over a policy for which I had pretty strong reservations. That's a top quality escort.

That's not at all what I'm saying. All I'm saying is: 1) the poster you quoted was clear as to why, as a potential client, he found an escort's request for stats to be off-putting; and 2) that because this seems like such an obviously likely trigger for a substantial portion of clientele, that I'm surprised more escorts don't recognize that and (if a client's appearance matters that much to them such that they must ask for stats) at least find a way to broache the subject in a better way.

Seriously? The guy's post was only two sentences long, and the second sentence doesn't make much sense without the first one. In the poster's first sentence, he explained that he hires escorts to fulfill a fantasy of getting a hot guy irrespective of his looks or level of attractiveness. That provides the context for the second sentence, where the poster said that it's off-putting for an escort to request stats, which, essentially, are one of the chief means (along with viewing photos & videos) by which most of us online assess a potential sex partner's looks or level of attractiveness. When read together, the 2 sentences express quite well that an escort's asking for the poster's stats undermines the main reason why he hires them in the first place. Ergo, that's why the poster found the request to be off-putting. It really is that simple. The poster wasn't trying to trick anyone. In fact, his sentiment is so basic and easy to understand, that I find it hard to believe that escorts (irrespective of whatever other good reasons they may have for requesting client's stats) wouldn't be able to anticipate that such requests would make some clients uncomfortable for just this reason. It's long been said on this forum that the best escorts are damn near empathic in their ability to sense and anticipate their clients' feelings and needs. I suspect that the best ones would use this *super power* to either avoid asking for potential clients' stats, or at least be able to clearly explain their reasons in such a way as to ease the clients' fears or feelings of discomfort around the issue.

I said it was obvious because in the very post to which you posed your query, the poster explained why he found the stats request off-putting. That you wouldn't find that off-putting is, of course, fine. But the poster's position was nonetheless reasonable and well-articulated. It was also similar to the usual reasons offered by many posters on this issue, since this is not the first time this has come up on this board.

Seems pretty obvious to me that the part he found off-putting was being asked to provide information bearing on his level of physical attractiveness, when he hires escorts to fulfill a fantasy that he can be with incredibly attractive men "regardless of who [he is] or what [he] look like." If it kills the fantasy, that'd be pretty off-putting. On a related note, it seems like a safe assumption that a significant portion of clients hire (or at least started hiring) as a way to cope with feelings of unattractiveness or unworthiness. I imagine that an easy way to trigger such feelings, even for those who may have moved past that, would be for a sex worker to make inquiries that suggest he's judging those clients' attractiveness. Even if the purpose of the sex worker's inquiry was purely functional as someone hinted above (to be sure he could connect with the client and provide a good time), rather than to be snooty or judgmental, it could easily come off as tone-deaf and insensitive at the least. Irrespective of the escort's true intentions, it sounds like a crappy or self-limiting business practice, IMHO.

Perhaps, but not always, re: whether changing one's stage name = an attempt to hide something, or, if true, whether that something is bad. It's not uncommon for newer escorts to go through a few stage names until they find the right one. In this guy's case, his first name was so generic, it sort of makes sense that he'd change it to stand out from the several others escort who market themselves as having a Middle Eastern background. As to the hiding not always being indicative of something bad, sometimes escorts feel the need to change names, go incommunicado for a little bit, or take other seemingly protective measures, to avoid clients who can't/won't respect the boundaries of the profession. One of my regulars told me that's why he went dormant for a while, allowed his ad to expire, and stopped taking in-call appointments. I certainly don't know why this particular escort changed his stage name, but all I can say is that he's really freaking attractive! :-)

I know you're relatively new here, but you've got to include a link for the ad of the provider you're interested in, if you want forum members to offer any knowledge or experiences about him. Most guys will not make the extra effort to actively search the advertising website to locate the link so as to learn about the escort. If you want members to help you out, you need to make it easy and convenient for them to do so. So that others can help, here's the link: https://rent.men/Hungtool I don't know anything about him, but he did just e-mail me thru RM's site after seeing that I'd checked out his ad. Depending on your perspective, that could reflect well or poorly upon his professionalism.

You're very welcome. I forgot to mention that as of when I wrote my prior post, Eric had last logged into his RM ad on Nov. 23rd, so that's probably why his ad is still showing up in the NY area. Either that, or after we spoke he decided to stay in NYC a little longer.

Ditto. I've met with Brad several times as well, and have had a great experience each time. He gives legitimate massages, coupled with sensual elements that have always left me super relaxed and eager to return. I think he's what you're looking for and that you'll enjoy his service. Best of luck!

Eric, a/k/a HungThickWolf, is actually based in Portland and was only visiting NYC for a short time. I've never met him, but we texted back and forth last weekend when I was interested in hiring him, but we couldn't sync our schedules and he confirmed that he was flying back home on Nov. 28th or 29th. He was very polite in our conversation and I'm hoping I can plan a trip out to the Pacific Northwest where I can finally meet him. By the way, he's been reviewed on Daddy's under Eric of Portland, formerly of San Francisco. I haven't met the other two, but they're scrumptious! You have great taste.

I've never hired Zanja as a masseur, but he frequently appears as a stripper/dancer at the Adonis Lounge events in NYC. In my interactions with Zanja, he's come across as a nice guy with a sweet personality, and he told me that he's actually gay (which is, counterintuitively, really rare amongst these M4M dancers). He also gave me pretty a decent lap dance, for what that's worth to you. I'm sorry I can't provide you any information about his massage services.

It'd be nice if he gave some, or any, indication of that in his ad. He lists "ask me" as his position, his public pics are rather G-rated, and he doesn't mention penetrative sex at all in the description portion. I'd hazard a guess that you're speaking from personal experience, though. I love blonds too, but I'm a bottom, so this thread has been a bit disappointing for me. Best of luck to the OP in his quest.

@GraysonDanielz: I wish this thread had developed more earlier this month. In its earlier iteration, your political views were raised and I saw the prior version of your ad and thought that we wouldn't click because of that, despite the fact that I was otherwise very attracted to you. So, I didn't reach out when I was in Southern California during the first week of November. I've since read several more of your much more recent posts in the latter pages of this thread, which provide much more context and nuance for your political opinions. Now I think that our political differences wouldn't have prevented us from having a good time, and we perhaps could have had very interesting, if not lively, pillow talk. I'll definitely look you up the next time I'm visiting LA or Orange County.