Strafe13

I think your tactic of first asking the escort about his level of discretion is really sound. It doesn't address the particular situation I'd asked about earlier, but I think I'll adopt it from now on if I uncover sensitive information when I'm vetting other escorts. Thanks for this.

You added a whole lot of extra stuff to your post way after I responded to it, so I'll take one last stab at this because I don't think we're disagreeing all that much, despite the catty retorts we've exchanged. I never said that there was nothing wrong with the OP calling the escort by his real name, and in fact, I said repeatedly that it was a social snafu. I've even said that it's perfectly understandable that the escort would be alarmed, and perhaps assume that the OP had to have violated his privacy in order to learn the name. What I've taken issue with is the notion, said explicitly by some in this thread, and implied by others, that the OP actually invaded or violated the escort's privacy by inadvertently learning of, or calling the escort by, that name. I believe, in the particular context described by the OP, that requires intent. I'm not speaking legally, but as a matter of common sense and fairness to the OP. He made a mistake, and he then immediately apologized to the person affected by the mistake. To then label him as an invader of the escort's privacy on top of that was, I felt, overkill. That's why I stood up for him. Look, I respect that reasonable minds can disagree, so there's nothing wrong with us taking different positions here. What I took issue with was what I felt were condescending or insulting jabs, like belittling the point I articulated by dismissing it as "legalistic." Or your sarcastic noting of my "healthy" perspective for someone who felt he wasn't violating another's privacy. Or your most recent implication that I don't share a sense of common decency, when you phonetically wrote in an accent to say that you know, better than me and the OP apparently, not to call someone by a name they haven't disclosed because you were reared a certain way. The irony is that I felt that my initial post on this thread expressed my agreement with the uncontroversial notion that one generally shouldn't call another by a name they haven't disclosed, when I asked escorts for their perspective on whether, and how, I could/should broach the topic with one of my regular escorts. My fear of his reaction was actually rooted in my acknowledgement of the social norm, not a disregard for it. I enjoy robust debate as much as anyone on this forum, but I don't think we need to insult each other to engage in it. Perhaps you didn't mean to be insulting or condescending, but that's how I interpreted some of your statements. I also acknowledge that I may have written things that you interpreted as insulting in this thread. For that, I apologize.

Sure, okay. I was also raised to not jump to conclusions (like, "you called me by my name, and I never told you that, so you must have violated my privacy"). My rearing also included not crucifying someone who's admitted that he made a mistake; offering him the benefit of the doubt; and graciously accepting his apology, if I think it was sincere.

I guess that's fine, if not overly simplistic. Even if calling someone by their name somehow = using something that isn't yours without permission, that doesn't necessarily = an invasion of privacy, particularly when the purported "use" of the name was unintentional. Nuance is clearly lost on you.

You say tomato (tuh-may-toe), I say tomato (tuh-mah-toe). You say "splitting hairs," I say "be more precise in language so as not to unfairly accuse people of invading others' privacy or unnecessarily impugn their motives or character." Go figure.

I didn't specify that in this post that you quoted, but in my first post in this thread I said that I've only been with the Middle Eastern Eli. Sorry if I confused you.

I've asked about him publicly, and received private messages that didn't relay negative experiences as such. To be diplomatic, let's just say that it was explained that he probably is a unique guy who wouldn't work for everyone. But none of the horror stories we usually see on here about guys who try to run out the clock, or take the cash and dash, or who place clients in fear for their safety. I've wanted to try him for years, as I've got a thing for Turkish and other Middle Eastern men, and I find him very attractive. But I wasn't willing to test his *quirkiness* (for lack of a better term) due to his rate of $300, which was top dollar years ago, although it's since become relatively standard in NYC.

Yeah..., it looks like he's not cut out for this line of work. In a way it's probably better for him that he learned how vulnerable his identity was from one of the nicer clients like yourself, even if it was by mistake. It may only have been a matter of time before an unstable or vindictive client learned this guy's real name the same way you did, and actually *put it to use* in a way that could have been embarrassing or even harmful to the guy. All's well that ends well...

I get the simplicity of your point. I just don't know what you mean by "put it to use." Actually, I know how you're using that phrase, but it just seems nonsensical in this context. Putting information "to use," sounds like one has taken the info and purposefully utilized it in some tangible fashion, like if you learned an account number and then used it to go shopping. Or, keeping in line with the OP's and my example, if you learned someone's real name, and used it to infiltrate their private lives by showing up at their homes, or finding and introducing yourself to their friends, family, or colleagues. But inadvertently referring to someone by their real name, in a private setting with no risk of exposing them to the public or to others in a compromising way, does not seem to comport with a reasonable, ordinary, common sense usage of the phrase "put it to use," at least within the context of examples provided by me and the OP. It's especially a reach to say that inadvertently calling someone by their real name in a private setting = putting the thing you know *to use* and that this therefore = violating that person's privacy. That's a stretch worthy of Mr. Fantastic or Plastic Man, IMHO.

I get the feeling that you've mischaracterized what I wrote, although I'm unsure if that's purposeful, or because I may not have expressed myself as clearly as I should or could have. First, I don't accept your framing of the initial question, and it strikes me as a bit disingenuous. (An expectation of privacy in a dresser top? Seriously?) It seems like you've framed it to presuppose the answer, rather than as a genuine attempt at engaging with people of good faith who may see things differently. I hope I've misinterpreted what you wrote, but you seem to imply that one violates another's privacy once he merely views, or becomes aware of, something that is out in the open, and/or that which another has taken no apparent steps to safeguard. If that's what you meant, then I could not disagree more. Second, you also seem to conflate the "use" of sensitive information (which can mean many things) with simply discussing it (which can also mean many things). Yes, these two can sometimes overlap, but they're not always the same thing. Another fave escort of mine used his regular phone number on both his social media accounts and his professional ad. When Facebook suggested him to me as a friend, thereby revealing his real name and other info, I told him about it so he could protect himself. By discussing that with him, I thereby "used" that private information? Come on! Even the OP did not "use" the escort's real name in the negative way that you seemed to imply. Despite performing due diligence in researching the previously unknown escort to see if he was real or a legitimate provider, the OP never meant to even learn the guy's real name, and he only later said it to the escort inadvertently during conversation. I certainly understood why the escort initially felt uncomfortable, and may even have thought that the OP violated his privacy, since, absent an explanation, that's a reasonable assumption. But just because you feel like someone invaded your privacy, that doesn't mean that he or she actually did. There's nothing legalistic about it, unless the meanings of words and phrases don't matter anymore. As a matter of common sense and experience, to invade someone's privacy necessarily means that one intentionally chooses to seek out sensitive information about another that he knows the target would prefer to keep private, and it can also entail revealing said information to others for whom he knows the target would not want to learn such sensitive matters. The inadvertent learning of someone's private information does not equate to violating that person's privacy. Intentionally doing so, or intentionally revealing that information to others does. Intent means everything. As in the first example I gave, I never intended to learn my escort's real name, nor had I even known or realized that his ID was on the dresser. It was only when I instinctively turned my head towards his vibrating phone that I saw the ID right next to it. I looked in that direction for 1 or 2 seconds at the most. I don't see how anyone can say that I invaded his privacy in that scenario, if that's what you meant. If you meant that my hypothetical telling the escort that I know his last name is the privacy violation, then I'm also perplexed. He obviously knows his own name, so it's not like I'm revealing classified information or anything. I understand that he could be startled to say the least, or that it could be considered a breach of protocol or unwritten rules of the biz. By the overreaction to which I alluded was not, as you seemed to assume, the obvious proof of a privacy violation. I was fearful that I would word things inartfully, or that the tenor of the conversation would change so quickly that I'd be unable to explain that I had learned his name innocently, and not because I searched his belongings or otherwise did something to invade his privacy. To be clear, I have no burning desire to share with this escort that I know his last name. My concern was/is, amplified by reading about the OP's mistake, that I might inadvertently reveal that during conversation. I was openly musing whether I should say something in advance, under a controlled setting, rather than try to undo an awkward snafu that might unnecessarily frighten the escort. He doesn't seem like the type to frighten easily or jump to conclusions, and I've been seeing him for well over a year now, so it's probably much ado about nothing. I was just hoping for an escort's perspective, that's all.

Not so sure your theory works here, although generally guys do that to reinvent themselves. I've had Ivan saved in my buddies list on RM for a long time, and although his name has changed, he remained in my list without me doing anything. I've noticed that when guys delete their ads and come back as a new persona, they don't remain in my buddy list.

I don't think the OP violated the escort's privacy, per se, (at least not affirmatively so) since he performed a rather simple online search that wasn't out of the ordinary. Had the OP hired a private investigator to dig up stuff, or rummaged through the escort's wallet while he wasn't looking, or something of that nature, then I think qualifies as actually invading someone's privacy. Blurting out the escort's name in a non-public setting when he doesn't know that you know his name, but where you haven't exposed or outed him, could be seen as a bit tacky or overstepping bounds, but I don't see what the OP did as violating the guy's privacy. It was a mistake, sure, but not nefarious. I've learned the real name of my fave escort by accident, and he doesn't know that I know it, but I don't think that I violated his privacy. We had told each other our real first names on our first date because we had a good connection and, perhaps, chemistry. At an in-call in his apartment on maybe our second or third meeting, he went to use the restroom as I was getting dressed. During this time his cellphone buzzed and flashed because he presumably got a message or other type of alert. It got my attention and caused me to instinctively look in that direction, and what looked like his work ID was next to his phone. We were in his small studio apartment, so I was already standing next to the dresser on which the phone and ID were placed when I was getting dressed. In the second or two it took to glance towards the phone, I inadvertently saw his full name on the ID, which was photo and name side up. I've never told him this because I don't want to make him uncomfortable. But then again, I assume that he had felt comfortable enough with me (either consciously or unconsciously) not to take extra precautions to hide things of that nature. Did I really violate my fave escort's privacy? If I mistakenly drop his full name in private conversation, is that then a violation of his privacy? I think it would definitely be an error to ever let him find out why I know in such a careless manner, and I could see why, absent an explanation, he would assume that I had violated his privacy in order to learn such information. But I don't think it would be fair or accurate to say that I had actually violated his privacy. I've thought about revealing this to him just in the interest of full honesty and openness between us, and to avoid potential future snafus, but I'm afraid that he might overreact or jump to the wrong conclusion. I'd be interested in hearing from the other escorts on this.

South African Eli https://www.masseurfinder.com/members/eliblu.shtml Middle Eastern Eli https://m.adam4adam.com/?p=ELINOW. That's from the mobile site, since I'm on my cellphone. If the link doesn't work, his screen name is EliNow on Adam4Adam. @lax8884, I saw Eli a few years back (2015, I think) in his escort capacity. He's well hung (though not monstrously huge), handsome, he was friendly, and he topped me well, although his studio leaves something to be desired. He used to advertise as providing both escort and massage services, but since the rentboy scandal, I've only ever seen him advertise his massage services on his profile.

Are you, @Jim_n_NYC, and @lax8884 talking about Eli the super handsome, but expensive South African masseur based in Hell's Kitchen, who's been well talked about on this forum, and who advertises on massuerfinder? Or do you mean the younger, also handsome Middle Eastern masseur who still does massages, and used to escort pre-rentboy, advertises on Adam4Adam, and is/was based on 14th Street near Union Square? I've seen the latter, and he is indeed well hung, and quite handsome, too.

I concur. If you must see his face, @hornytwells, just request access. He was very agreeable, and made setting up an appointment quite easy.

My review will be forthcoming. But as a preview, I can say that @vaguyD certainly told the truth. Fun_Dude was, indeed, "pretty fucking amazing, in every way." I may have just found my NYC regular! *swoon*

Mike used to dance at the Adonis Lounge, where I met him. I never saw him outside of the lounge, but he was very kind and friendly. Plus, he was really handsome in person. I wish he was still around.

Strangely, the ad says that he last logged on in 2010. That might account for some of the age discrepancy.

Does anyone know anything about Ali, who works at Super Men's Spa? I'd never been there before, but I walked by there tonight to schedule some services for Friday night, including a 60-minute massage with Samet, who this thread has made out to be a very yummy masseur. But while there, I saw a strikingly handsome olive-skinned Mediterranean or Middle Eastern young man, with piercing dark brown almond-shaped eyes, dark hair and beard. I couldn't stop staring at him. I didn't have the courage to ask about the services he provides (not with him right there, in earshot) but I did catch his name tag. I don't think I'd want to replace Samet with Ali, but maybe I could get another separate treatment with Ali, too?

@tennisjock and @mikefl81 : I'm on the Adonis Lounge LA emailing list, and I noticed that he hasn't been featured in the weekly emails in quite some time. I've reached out to Tim, but no luck there on finding Kerry. Kerry went by "Nicky" at the Adonis Lounge, by the way. From others' reported experiences, it looks like Kerry has either quit the business, or has taken a hiatus. Oh well, it's a shame. Gotta strike while the iron's hot, I guess.

Thanks so much for this. As an east coast guy, I'm so used to looking guys up on rent.men, that it didn't even occur to me to check out the Men4Rent site. Kerry's ad is current there, so he may have just chosen to switch advertising sites. He apparently prefers contact by email, so I emailed him through that site and at the email address listed in his most recent Daddy's reviews. Hopefully I hear back from him. Thank you to everyone who answered this thread and provided suggestions. I'll let you guys know how it goes if I meet Kerry.

To @BigRic and others: Does anyone have the contact info for @Kerryslate ? (www.rent.men/kerryslate) I'll be in LA this weekend for the first time in 2017, and I'd really like to meet him. One of my biggest regrets from my 2016 trip to LA is that I couldn't get to see him, and now I see that his ad is expired, so I can't get his current contact info, and it looks like he hasn't logged into the forum since December. Earlier today I texted the number listed in one of Kerry's earlier reviews, but no response thus far. It looks like Kerry may have quietly retired, but I'm hopeful that, like many working guys, he's still active but has just let his ad temporarily lapse. I'd very much appreciate help from the forum members in getting in touch with Kerry. Thanks in advance to all who take the time to read this and reach out. :-*

I saw Mark maybe 2 years ago, and I fully agree with this assessment. He's a very nice guy, gives a good massage and, as noted by @Dmitri , he's crazy handsome. But he offers a completely non-sexual massage. That's what I was looking for at the time, so it was fine for me, but if a client wants some sexual play mixed in with his massage (or a sexual experience under the guise of a massage service), then Mark is not the masseur for him.

Can you or @workingoutnow provide a link for both or either of these masseurs? I'll be in LA in 2 weeks, and would appreciate the info. Thanks.

I understand an escorts desire to maintain flexibility in setting different rates for different locations. But choosing "N/A" (which most would interpret as "not available" or "not applicable") seems rather silly, and conveys the opposite message. We all know that the site has an "Ask Me" option, so why wouldn't he just choose that? At least that doesn't tell prospective clients that the option they may be seeking isn't off the table.