Simon Suraci

Just depends on the provider’s business strategy and whether it works for them. Posting related recent thread regarding hiring one hour vs two:

Yes, it can be difficult for some to provide good top service within less than 24 hrs of the last full service appointment. Some use pills, some use quad/trimix, which has been discussed at length in other threads. Others are all natural. Injections you can only safely use once a day*. As I like to say, we’re not machines. If you want us to serve a wide variety of clients, we have to recharge our human physiological batteries. Even 20 year old kids with raging testosterone levels can’t make it happen 100% of the time, much less a guy in his 30s, 40s, 50s or beyond. This is also a reason (a bad one, I might add) that some top providers get picky about who they see, not for gratification per se, but for concern of not being able to deliver. Add to that more than one request in the same day and you’re asking for disappointment. Some can do it. Others can’t. Not everyone is medically able or willing to use chemical help. Be grateful he is being realistic and not promising you the world and delivering a limp noodle upon arrival. Good for providers who know their own bodies and limits. This business principle applies: under promise, over deliver. *consult your doctor. This is not medical advice.

I reached out to Jeremiah a few months back, but no response, so I let it be. Sucks because I appreciate a good therapeutic massage and his ad and rates seemed more promising on that front. Thanks for sharing @wolverine26tx. I would be more inclined to reach out to him through email or try texting again.

These types usually have personal assistants and have providers sign NDAs. The PA functions as the agency, in effect. I know, because some of them have hired me. And no, I can’t discuss them for obvious reasons. Someone requiring that level of discretion and can’t do with a simple burner phone strategy typically has plenty of money and has some degree of fame or notoriety. There’s a very narrow band of people where wealth and discretion needs fall where someone is less than having a PA arranging NDAs but more than being your average high earning profession regular Joe. It’s quite specific.

This is why I can’t make business sense of traveling for work to NYC. It’s crazy expensive and I am competing with god knows how many local guys. It’s a buyer’s market and clients can flake at the flap of a butterfly wing because they know they can get whoever’s available within the hour should anything not work out on their end. I’m also not the washboard abs type, where abs are dime-a-dozen in the city. I’m wondering if a concierge service is truly necessary in a market where you have so much choice.

And for some, they have many professional talents, and intellect, to boot. For example, I’m a licensed architect with a decade of experience designing and leading teams on resort hospitality and multi family residential projects. I love my jobs and I’m very good at all of them. Sadly, this work pays 2X more than all those years of school and training and experience I invested in my professional career. It takes just as much investment to be a doctor or lawyer, yet my sisters who are schoolteachers make about the same. Sometimes it’s about doing whatever makes sense for you to live your life in the ways that work for your goals. I truly do love architecture, but at the end of the day, money is more important. At least this way I can retire before I die.

Client: Do you offer a senior discount? Me: That’s like asking for a student discount on textbooks.

I have. Several years ago though so my experience may be dated. Good experience. Happy to discuss. PM me.

I agree. There’s no harm in asking. Don’t let that scare you away. My first gut reaction is to pass on “ASK” rates as well because the chances of the guy being a good fit for my particular needs and budget is lower, but you never know! It only takes a few seconds to ask. Worst case is he quotes something you’re not comfortable with and you politely pass and move on. Very little time or effort lost. Still, I feel the best approach is to post regular massage rates publicly. If he has any other rates for “more than massage” it’s perfectly fair to share and discuss those privately.

Agree, something is off. He’s probably had work done on his face or photoshopped his face onto another body, or facetune, or something else, or a combination? Just seems weird to me. Maybe he has a really short neck to begin with. Who knows? 🤷‍♂️ I’m sure he looks great in person, so I don’t see a need for all the photo shenanigans.

You’re not wrong, @tenderloin. This is time wasting behavior as we frequently discuss, but in the other direction. Every masseur or escort should have rates ready to share upfront, or at least a range if they have a complicated pricing structure. It’s a really bad sign if they are not forthcoming about what they charge. Keep in mind the guy may have some questions for you first so that he can accurately quote you. And those questions should not have anything to do with the way you look. Things like host or travel/distance, how long of a session, which activities, and so on. It shouldn’t matter if you’re in a different city at the time of contact. If anything, that’s better because you’re a proactive, cool headed client. Never a bad sign in my book. Just my opinion. Some guys only take same day / last minute. I will never understand why. I’m sorry, $500/hr with a two hr minimum is insane. He’s either one of the most desirable, popular porn stars/instagays, or a deluded individual. In either case, he probably doesn’t need to do this work as his main income. He’s fishing for only the really big fish and hell if he cares that most days he has no fish at all, of any size. Once in a while a big one bites, and that’s just gravy money on top of his other income stream(s).

Yes, ideally we should wait to post full, detailed reviews. That, or post an abbreviated review and add all the information to the actual review once that section goes live. I’ve been holding off so as not to duplicate efforts.

^THIS! Sooooo many clients do not understand what they’re asking for when they request an outcall and expect to pay the same rate as they would incall (or expect $20 for gas to cover it 🙄). I get people asking me for a 1-hr outcall and they’re over 90 mins away. That works out to half a day of my time..and they’re baffled when I quote them a hefty fee or flat out say no, it’s out of my travel range. Thank you, next. Since clients are so clueless with regard to how much extra time outcalls take, applying a minimum time is one way to overcome the high time commitment vs low fee. I’m surprised more don’t do it. A lot of masseurs do outcalls for no fee or a nominal small fee $20-40. I don’t compete with them. For me, it doesn’t make sense to spend half my day NOT getting paid when I could spend that same time doing incalls getting paid for the whole day. For masseurs who have only one table, it takes extra time on top of the travel to take down and set everything up, including packing up speakers, oil, linens, and any other extra stuff. That adds an extra hour. Think about it: 15 mins x4 to do this before leaving, after you arrive, when you leave, and again when you get back to your home base. That’s an hour I can’t take other appointments or have to myself. Let’s say a client is 30 mins away and the traffic gods are on your side: 1-hr for the massage 1-hr for takedowns/setups 1-hr for travel That’s still THREE HOURS for (1) hour of fee! And people wonder why I have so many hangups about doing outcalls. I only do them when I’m not as busy, for trusted good clients, higher fees, longer appointments like couples massages, or some other reason that makes sense. I don’t drop everything for 3+ hrs of my day at the drop of a hat for every Tom, Dick, or Harry who contacts me. Sorry guys, I may be in the minority here, but I have my reasons. I don’t need to compete with the outcall masseurs, so I don’t.

Excellent point. Hiring is for everyone. It’s a convenient and time saving way to get exactly what you want, with who you want, when you want!

@Wolfer I agree with you. All the points you make are why I don’t upsell during the session and I don’t take the liberty to initiate any extras during the session that we did not discuss beforehand. This behavior is manipulative, and yes, we know men think with their dicks in the moment. It’s easy to take advantage. That’s why it’s so common. You’re right to decline any advances. A lot of clients don’t have the willpower or good judgment for this. It keeps both parties from being disappointed or feeling resentment. Good for you. For the rest of the pack unable or unwilling to discuss openly, or otherwise maintain boundaries, tip your guys! That’s on you for not having the wherewithal, and your masseur isn’t always trying to manipulate you. A lot of men want the extras and expect them, or even demand them. Masseurs are responding to this dynamic. If you get extras without any discussion, and you can’t or won’t discuss, that’s on you. You have choices: 1) take the extras without paying equitably for them, which is a recipe for resentment. 2) tip equitably and generously for something you truly enjoyed 3) grow a pair and ask the right specific questions beforehand to clarify what’s included, and what’s available for additional costs. Sometimes what you want is already included. When you discuss prior, you can proceed without any anxiety about the costs or feeling obligated to tip, or offending by not tipping. When something is an extra cost, you can calmly evaluate whether you want to pay for it long before the heat of the moment. Communication, folks. That solves the problem! I encourage clients to discuss everything they want beforehand. Unfortunately many of them are unwilling to do that for whatever reason. @Jamie21 makes a good point about the exploratory nature of his approach and I like that, but this only works because he is including more in his base pricing than most of the providers in the US do. For those willing to discuss beforehand, I lay out everything included in my base pricing and quote any other rates based on their specific needs. It’s so much easier when everyone is clear on what to expect. That frees me up to focus on delivering quality service, and frees the client up to focus on enjoying the experience. Anything I do without discussing beforehand I assume I’m giving away for free (which is rare). Most of the time it’s the other way around where clients are trying to initiate a lot more with me without any discussion. They silently assume they’re entitled to a lot more. I have to stop them and discuss. This is not an “upsell” because I am not initiating extras or pressuring the client to pay for them. It’s merely a boundary I set in response to the client pressuring me to do more. Unfortunately, so many men don’t respect the word “no”, but when I lay out pricing suddenly everyone falls into line. Sad it has to be that way, but that’s the only effective way I can maintain boundaries. Without it, I get people begging and pleading after I said no, or being aggressive or mean, or mostly just sad and disappointed. Tips and repeats fall off a cliff when clients are upset.

Yes, you can continue to post reviews here until the reviews feature is live. Spas and Masseurs section to discuss or review masseurs. The Deli section for escorts. Meanwhile, you can add Troy or any other service providers to the review database and edit the provider details later like specifying the masseur category. As far as I know it’s not live yet to be able to add all the category info, but that’s a start.

It varies from masseur to masseur of course, but many -I would argue most masseurs- in the US consider all of these extras territory that they either charge for explicitly or expect a hefty tip for providing. They might call it ‘escort’ service or avoid the term altogether. Full service penetration is obviously an escort service. IMO anything above HE is escort work, or an optional extra “freebie” the masseur should or otherwise would charge for. It’s a gray area. Lots of wiggle room among masseurs on how they draw their lines. Some consider even a HE to be an escort service, but that’s a minority opinion.

@Yellowrod and others: You might tell him you’re interested but the distance is a barrier. That would give him some sense that he’s in demand elsewhere and influence him to reconsider where he hosts or travels to in the future. You never know. For instance, I’ve planned travel to other cities based on how many clients expressed interest. Last I chatted with Edras, he was training to be a dental hygienist and that he planned to continue his massage work part time. Not sure where he’s at on his dental work, but that could be a factor in his decision making 🤷‍♂️

@EastbayMike @pubic_assistance I agree with both of you. If the masseur does a lot more than a HE, the client consents, and neither initiates a discussion on fees for that, that’s the masseur’s prerogative to offer a freebie. As always I advocate for discussing everything before the session begins so that there are no surprises when it comes to what you’re paying and what you’re getting. I realize that’s less exciting and that clients are notoriously chicken about discussing their explicit desires, but you’re never disappointed when you just talk about it. The client is not obligated to pay anything extra, even a tip. However, not so common courtesy makes anything less than a generous tip quite insulting for services performed way above and beyond. If you’re getting full service for 5 mins, 15 mins or 60 mins, it doesn’t matter. It’s still full service, which means the masseur should be charging comparable full service rates. It’s his business to charge those rates, or give freebies away in the hopes of receiving generous (non-compulsory) tips. Personally, I would rather hire for escort service and treat it as such so both parties are on the same page and the masseur/escort is being compensated equitably. If there’s a massage element, fine, but the real service on offer is sex, be it oral, anal, fetishes, or other sexual play. When your masseur goes down on you or sits on your cock, recognize that he’s going way beyond the call of duty. He’s leaving money on the table by not discussing rates beforehand, and you can certainly take advantage of him that way. I wouldn’t expect the masseur to repeat that same level of service if you’re not tipping anything significant to thank him. Then again, it’s up to every masseur to operate his business as he sees fit.

RentMasseur has the greatest range of guys from 100% escort to 100% massage and everything in between. You can get a great therapeutic massage on there, but it’s a smaller number of guys. Guys on RentMasseur have a wide range of massage skill levels. Agree with @MassageMePlease you shouldn’t have to guess at a basic massage rate. I tend to pass on those as well because it usually means escort rates with little to no skilled massage on offer, but not always. Nothing wrong with asking for a rate though. If they quote you rates conditional on information they ask about you, move on. They’re likely not very good. Agree with @Jamie21 most clients want *some* level of sexual fulfillment, whether that be seeing and/or touching the masseur’s naked body, to receiving a HE, and beyond. A minority of my clients are 100% strictly therapeutic. Clients at least want an attractive guy to interact with. How far it goes past that depends on the masseur.

Yay! So glad you enjoyed seeing him. He never disappoints. Thanks for sharing your feedback.

I like trans men. A lot of really beautiful ftm men out there I would love to hire if I were hiring.

^This. Hard agree. If an actual good massage is important to you, be mindful of the split. It’s usually easy to spot one type versus another. There’s a market for the guys who aren’t offering anything resembling actual massage. That’s fine, just know what you’re getting. The rates are usually the biggest indicator, followed by the pics, and of course the descriptions can be telling but not always. Evaluate them like you would an escort.

I agree with @Jamie21. If he lists erotic and uses language like “most of my body”, or quotes escort rates, he should be prepared to answer specific questions about erotic services. You are not the first one to ask, so he should have plenty of experience navigating his responses. Guys stating very clearly in their ads “therapeutic only” and have rates under $180/hr are signaling to you they are offering regular massage services. Anything “extra” is either not offered or perhaps varies from client to client. This kind of guy may say to you that he doesn’t offer erotic services. In that case, move on to the one who matches your needs/desires or be ok with a therapeutic only session. His rates are also a clue. Over $200/hr indicates he is most likely offering more than massage. It’s perfectly fair to assume with this type of ad that he can answer yes/no questions about erotic services. If he prefers to not put his answers in writing, you can request a phone call to discuss. Most will text.

Can you post his ad link? So I’ve heard over and over here that SD is slim pickings. I’m hoping to shake things up a bit after I move in August and set up shop in America’s Finest City. I’m looking for a work space in neighborhoods south of the 52, north of the 94, west of the 15, and east of the 5. Try me after the move. If there’s anything to improve I would rather hear it directly from clients, so feel free to reach out. I offer a great experience, but I am always growing and looking to improve my business.