Simon Suraci

I stay very busy, and my costs are only going up. Taxes, general costs of living, and business expenses are all higher in California than in Texas. I will also be commuting daily from my home to a business location, about 45 mins each way (vs living on site in TX). Nobody is happy about higher prices, no matter how slight, and I know only a percentage of the market is interested in hiring me at any price - BUT let’s say you were a client interested in hiring me. What do you think about the proposed changes below? I’m particularly interested in your opinion if you are located in the San Diego area. Proposed Pricing: Massage $80 / 30 min (vs $75) $150 / 60 min (vs $140) $210 / 90 min (vs $195) $260 / 120 min (vs $240) ^add to any massage: $40 / 15 min hot stones (vs $35) Body Care $50 / 30 min body scrub (vs $45) $70 / 45 min body trimming (vs $65) (body sculpting removed from menu) Cuddle Therapy $80 / 30 min (vs $65) $150 / 60 min (vs $120) Full Service (no change) $300 / hr $500 / two hours Escort Service (no change) $1,000 / five hours $2,000 / overnight $5,000 / weekend or (2) days $1,000 / additional day after (2) days $10,000 / week Notes: Escort service is all inclusive; companionship, massage/spa, and full service, any combination. Massage pricing is consistent for therapeutic, sensual, and erotic style massages.

Just By Looking at Him, by Ryan O’Connell (audio format read by the author). Many of you may know Ryan from the Netflix show Special. I listened to it on the road during my driving days on tour this month. If you enjoyed Special, you will love this. It’s honest, touching, and very funny. The main character is a TV writer who lives with cerebral palsy. He hires a sex worker he heard about from his boss and goes on to hire many more, without telling his loving, monogamous boyfriend. He struggles with why and how to cope with his shame and sense of addiction. He keeps on hiring the first sex worker over and over - until his boyfriend mentions that he wants to hire the same guy for a special threesome experience. The novel continues to spiral from there as the main character works through his feelings and everything comes to a head. Worth a read. Well done.

Depends on your dick. If you have a downward curving one, it may actually work better in reverse cowboy position. The same applies for doggie style. If you have a straight or upward curving cock, regular cowboy will work best. Same applies for missionary. While almost every position is possible for every couple (save for mobility restrictions), some are better suited to your particular anatomy.

From what I’ve read, it sounds promising and worth more studies to corroborate data to make a case for widespread use. I wonder how the potential for mass long term use of various antibiotics may accelerate the development and spread of antibiotic resistant strains of STIs. If/when the antibiotics we have now are no longer effective against those problematic strains, and those strains are circulating much more commonly through the population (especially among MSM), what then will we have available to fight infections? Wouldn’t it be nice if we could eradicate all STIs? …*sigh*

Clients, masseurs, and providers: have you ever experienced an emergency during an appointment? Health scare, safety issue, violence, break in, police showing up, etc. Share your story. Sometimes I worry something really awkward or crazy is going to happen, like a client has a heart attack on my table. Here’s an episode from earlier this year. A regular client is showering with me during a body scrub service. All the sudden, he started to sway almost like he was drunk and he said he felt dizzy. The next moment he faints, and I snatch him before he can hurt himself. I gently get his body down to the tub in a sitting upright position. He is unconscious, eyes open in a dead stare off in different directions. I turn on some cold water and slap his face around a few times. “Stay with me, [client], stay with me!” I keep at it for about 20-30 seconds, which felt like 10 minutes in the heat of the moment. Eventually he came to and I made him rest for a few minutes and drink water before helping him up out of the tub. Even though I knew he simply fainted, I was really concerned for his safety. God knows what kind of explaining I would have to do if he never came to. This kind of stuff really haunts me. It’s not unheard of to faint during a shower, especially if the water is particularly hot, there’s less fresh air circulating, you’re unknowingly taking shallow breaths, or you rise suddenly from a lower position to a higher one. I know because this has happened to me once on my own. I fainted, fell over, and hit my head on the toilet and came to a few minutes later, covered in blood. For the record, there was no hanky panky happening with the client or anything unusual to cause shallow breaths or something else out of the ordinary. It just happened spontaneously. This client I like to call the “fainting goat”, because he has a goatee, and frankly, kind of looks like a goat! He’s one of my favorite clients. Great guy. I take extra precautions now to ensure better airflow and a slightly lower water temperature. Feel free to share your emergency experiences.

@Jarrod_Uncut What’s stopping you from moving to a different market?

Short pockets of time here and there I find to read and contribute. A lot of the time I’m busy working. Currently on a four city tour and it’s been a crazy busy time. Booked back to back morning to night every single day for weeks now. I’m exhausted. I enjoy learning more about the biz, trends, and how clients think. I do this for market research too. I’m also a client, at least for massage anyway. Sometimes people forget that. It’s entertaining here if nothing else. That’s probably the biggest reason I stick around. Clients tell me from time to time my approach on the forums directly or indirectly influenced their decision to hire me. That’s just a bonus. I could spend my marketing time more effectively in other ways. It’s just a positive outcome. You can learn a lot more here than you ever could on a short ad bio, and clients like that. Call me old fashioned, but I would rather read things here than on other major social media platforms for a few reasons: 1) No algorithms curating what I see or don’t see. Nothing reinforcing extreme content or views. If I don’t like something or have no interest, I make a conscious decision to scroll on. 2) A greater percentage of members are willing to engage in civil, thoughtful dialogue. More of us are invested in making our community better for everyone. Big social media is not like that at all. 3) The content is focused largely on shared interests and related niche MSM topics, more specifically those on hiring. That creates a natural filter for things I am more likely to be interested in, have experience with, or have something constructive to contribute. 4) There’s more space than 140 characters (or whatever limit du jour), and people here actually read. Sure we use images, but most of what we post here requires reading comprehension to engage. That’s refreshing when the rest of the world only has the attention span long enough to view a catchy headline or a photo. 5) It’s easier to search for and reference things.

@Unicorn Yes, I report and pay taxes on my income. Still that’s my concern, either way and not that of other members. I’m a big boy. No I don’t have all the answers. More favorable compensation, benefits, and terms would in theory make someone like me more seriously consider an arrangement. As to whether I personally would or wouldn’t take a client up on a specific offer is a separate discussion, and a private one at that. I hope you know I have nothing against you or your current relationship and make no judgments about it. Frankly, I’m not personally very invested in this topic. I just thought it was interesting to discuss. It would be nice to hear from others what they think is fair, compelling, or realistic compensation and terms for a sugar arrangement. I would like to learn more about how people think about sugar arrangements. I’m genuinely curious. Nobody has to listen to me or find value in my contributions. Feel free to disagree or disregard. It doesn’t bother me. The stakes here are so low. I just don’t care that much lol. I’ll end my engagement on this thread here.

The OP question is: “How much does it cost to be a sugar daddy?” The answer is: it depends. “On what?”, you might ask. Answer: On many factors. My response highlights only one of the major factors, which is the motivations and sensibilities of the hired man. Some require more financial incentive and/or specific terms, while others require less financial incentive and perhaps fewer or different terms. Without spelling out exactly what it would cost for each hired man under the sun, I offered an example in myself. For example, @socurious might be willing to negotiate an offer along the lines of $150k /yr plus benefits, whereas I wouldn’t because I have different motivations. I suppose you would have to speak to @socurious directly rather than me putting words in his mouth, but he seems eager based on his responses, so I’ll mention him as a counter example. The example in myself illustrates how different one’s costs could be based on who you are looking to hire. One guy will eat Popeye’s and sleep on your couch or in your bed. One may require all organic food and sleep in a guesthouse, or expect more perks or higher compensation. That’s why I say: it depends. @Unicorn If all of that makes me a “downer”, so be it. I don’t expect my answer to be palatable to everyone. You may not like my response, but it is honest, thoughtful, and it answers the question. It gives a framework for how one might think about the costs, since there is no single number or range of numbers to apply in every situation. To determine the total costs, you have to know the terms of your man, and his motivations. From there, you can build a list to calculate the approximate costs.

Divorce is a bitch no matter how relatively wealthy each party happens to be. Considering how much worse it could have gone, it sounds like a good settlement agreement. In some sense, yes, especially when parties are mismatched financially, which can change over time. All the more reason to consider hiring various men to directly satisfy specific needs. It simplifies matters.

Arrangements vary and the people involved are unique. I did not mean to Imply they are all the same or that others should think the way I do. I’m simply putting out an opinion based on my own sensibilities and motivations. What works for another guy may not work for me. My contribution is to shed light on a hired boy’s motivations, which directly influences how much it would cost to maintain a sugar relationship. That’s the OP question. Other opinions welcome. The hired boy may not currently make as much, and he may not care much about sleeping arrangements or “leaving work at work” as much as I do. Good for him. My point is to say for some guys like me it would take a lot more to theoretically attract and retain than someone else. Who your hired guy is and his motivations will determine how much it would cost. Also marriage is a whole other dynamic I won’t even get into. Sugar arrangements usually are not legal marriage, but great if that works well for your situation.

I find it difficult to fathom giving up my independence - my whole life really - in exchange for 150k/yr + perks. Especially when that arrangement will inevitably end in short order. I already make more than that, and at the end of the day I go home and sleep in my own bed in my own house with a whiskey neat on the nightstand, and nobody to bother me. Not even my partner because we sleep in separate rooms after spending our quality waking hours together. That’s the life! I sleep so well that way. A sugar arrangement might be better suited under a contract term, like for 6 or 12 months at a time. Kind of like renewing a lease on an apartment. Anyone done something like this before? When either party is not wanting to continue, there’s a natural stopping point and no drama about being “replaced” or illusions about depending on someone indefinitely, and the sugar daddy doesn’t have to feel bad about moving on when he’s ready. It’s planning for the inevitable and making the endpoint much more graceful and agreeable for both parties.

That’s definitely not a massage. Everything about this ad tells me you should hire him like you would a provider on RentMen.

At least you offer. I consider serious offers. Most clients ~95% or more requesting outcall service don’t offer and then balk if I require a travel fee to book. I’m more accommodating with regard to travel for escort appointments. Not so for massage. This is reasonable to me. You’re asking the guy to dedicate an entire day just to serving you. Yeah it’s a lot of driving, but you’re compensating for that. I think I would do it in this case, especially if you were a regular/repeat, and I happen to have the whole day still available.

^This. And consistency. I’m fully aware most clients can’t afford to do all the things @Coolwave35 does, and certainly not on a regular basis. BUT the basic principle applies. Do your research. Post on the forums when there is no existing thread (use the search function first), or find the appropriate thread by searching and ask there. Try a few providers for shorter sessions. There is some degree of risk in doing this. You won’t click with everyone, and that’s normal. That’s just part of the process. Don’t give up. When you find a provider you like, cultivate the relationship by hiring him with some regularity, and if you can afford it, for longer sessions should you really like something akin to a boyfriend experience. Anything you can do to incentivize your regular guy financially will make him loyal to you and prioritize you over other clients. This is a business. Our time and attention is best spent on repeat clients. The best clients are regular ones. Amazon wishlists and all the perks you can think of are great, but money paid directly is the greatest motivation.

I use other methods that I won’t share here, but also Mr Number. I take it all with a grain of salt. It’s not 100% accurate. Lots of the entries are from immature providers leaving comments for illegitimate reasons and I can usually tell pretty easily by the tone and language. I’ve run some experiments intentionally booking known problem clients just to see if the comments hold any water. The majority of comments are accurate. Some are not. I called a client out on his comments a while ago. He protested and showed me his texts with the providers that were clearly the provider being the problem. The client showed up and was not a problem at all. All was well. There is no perfect system. You have bad actors on both sides of hiring. Most clients are just fine. If you treat providers with respect, you have little reason to worry about getting comments. We use the systems available, imperfect though they may be. Providers use Mr Number to help keep one another safe and to help steer us away from known problem clients. Not just “annoying” clients. Plenty of those out there and we deal with them every day. Those are not a legit reason to post damaging comments. When a client is seriously impacting my business or my own person in a negative way, I feel the need to share it. I never add a comment because a client simply decided not to book with me. That’s asinine. I only do it in the following cases: 1) No-show with zero contact, no cancellation attempt, no apology, no excuse, no attempt to reschedule. Nothing but crickets for hours or even days later after multiple attempts to reach the client. (most common) 2) Abusive or harassing behavior, stalking (uncommon). 3) Violent and/or threatening client (uncommon). 4) Client intentionally attempting to receive services and not pay (rare). 5) Mental illness (rare). And I don’t mean disabilities. I mean someone who is seriously unstable, like they could be a harm to himself or others, unable to consent, or some other serious issue. Not generally “weird” people, that’s not fair. I get plenty of those. I mean something really serious. 6) Spam, fraud (unbelievably common). “Will you massage my entire boys sports team in one day?” lol so many weird schemes out there from Nigerian royalty asking for gift cards to female porn stars requesting massages and access to my payment information before receiving services. You name it, it’s out there, and it’s constant. Every. Damn. Day. If you advertise anywhere, you’re a target for spam and fraud. 7) Other extreme circumstances that I can’t think of off the top of my head.

Agree, it varies from provider to provider. For me, it depends on: the service requested, distance, location, and client. 1) Service requested. Outcall massages are a bitch and a half for me to fulfill. I know many other masseurs regularly do outcalls for no extra charge. More power to them. Those appointments do not make business sense for me. Few clients are willing to pay something reasonable for my time. Not just $20 for gas…like actually compensate me for the time I am devoting to fulfilling their appointment. This is lost on most people, so I just decline. To do massage outcalls without charging a considerable fee, it has to be a longer session, like a couples massage. Or I am really slow on a particular day, which I tend to embrace when those days happen because slow days are infrequent. I would rather have a break from my typical 7-day work week than work double the time (or longer) for the same fee. Packing up the table and all the accoutrements takes time. Setups/takedowns (x4; my place and theirs) plus driving time exceeds most requested appointment times. I don’t do bed massages either. Non-massage services, on the other hand, require much less time and the fee per hour is higher, which justifies the driving time. An outcall to a hotel 15-20 mins away is a no brainer. I don’t charge travel for locations close by. If it’s an hour or more both ways, I probably wouldn’t do it unless the client offered to compensate for travel. 2) Distance. If it takes longer to get to the location by nature of distance, I’m out. Generally one hour or less both ways, and usually only for non-massage appointments. When a client offers to compensate reasonably for going a long distance, I consider it. 3) Location. A client may be relatively close, but it may take longer or be a hassle because the location or timing is inconvenient. Here’s an example. A client requests an outcall massage at their hotel a few blocks away in a downtown area. I would have to find parking and pay for it, and it may not be that much closer to them than it is to me anyway. It makes more sense to schlepp the table blocks away on foot than park, but the client could simply walk to me or take a very short rideshare. If they won’t visit me, I decline. Another example. A client asks me to drive to a location that puts me in peak traffic before and/or after their appointment. It may normally be a 15 min drive, but it takes me an hour or longer because of the timing. Hard pass. 4) Client. For trusted regular clients, I am much more willing to go out of my way to serve them. Especially if they tip well. This is part of the ongoing relationship building and grows from mutual trust and respect.

No change based on time of day. Same price. Maybe discount based on a client hiring previously at a lower rate, but not for new clients.

This contest was on TV at the bar a couple week or so ago. They play all kinds of random obscure sports when the popular ones have a lull. I was trying to eat my brunch, sipping a mimosa, and looked up and almost lost my brunch. Begged the bartender to change it and she commented on how this is what we watch even as so many people live with food insecurity, both inside and outside our own country. So. Gross. I can’t even with this. It’s quintessentially American and one of the many reasons I feel embarrassed when I travel to other countries.

For non-sexual companionship services, I charge something more than my massage rates but less than my full service rates. Not by much, but a bit less. I do so because it takes effort and focused attention, but in a different way. Arguably it’s much more engaging and challenging than the small talk I have with a typical client at the beginning of a massage. The client wants my intellect and wants me to look good, perhaps touch me, and for me to engage them in every way but sex. That takes a high level of effort and personal connection. The companionship client typically wants more than an hour of my time, so it makes sense to do it. For full service, I charge $300/hr or $500/two hours. I charge $225/hr for à la carte companionship services. If the client wants two hours of companionship, that’s $450. Not much less than if they hired me for full service for two hours ($500). The companionship client may be less common than the full service client, but they are not paying that much differently. More commonly clients are interested in an escort session and/or boyfriend experience, depending on the terms you prefer. These typically include time in the bedroom, and time outside the bedroom. See recent thread on “BFE”. I charge $1000 for up to (5) hours of escort service. The sexual part is typically up to couple hours and the rest is up to the client to decide what non-sexual activities they most enjoy while spending time with me. My long escort sessions work out to $200/hr, which is a pretty good deal for clients interested in both the sex AND the rest of the experience…which could look very much like the non-sexual companionship service I normally charge $225 for. I suppose it all depends on the client’s sensibilities, budget, and priorities, but the longer the session, the easier it is for me to justify a lower rate. Example: I can do (1) five hr session for $1k, or (3) one hour full service sessions for $900. Realistically I probably can’t deliver on three clients a day for the latter, so the former makes a lot more business sense, even though the per-hour pay rate is lower. Another consideration is that the typical client who books a five hour escort session is far more likely to cancel, and more often than not in less than 24 hrs of their start time. That’s frustrating. On paper it makes business sense, but in reality it’s all a total crapshoot. My approach is I’m getting paid decently no matter what service I’m providing, so it matters a lot less exactly what I’m doing. Even some massage clients regularly spend $300 or more. The difference there is that I’m spending more time with the massage clients for the same money as I would make providing the other services over a shorter time. It’s easier for me to take multiple massage clients a day. It’s much more difficult for me to have multiple escort and/or sex work clients per day.

I’m quite skilled at lingam massage, tantric edging and erotic massage. I also offer various bondage elements as part of the experience, if desired. It’s no rub and tug. It’s all about the buildup of sexual energy. Not those mechanical two minute hand jobs you will get on most masseurs’ tables. I do more straightforward HE type stuff for the average guy, but for the clients who want it, appreciate it, and ask for it, I do really good lingam work. I have to know that’s what you want so I can program enough time for it and charge accordingly. For those who book me specifically for it, I coach some of my clients on tantric edging and walk them through exercises to help them improve on premature ejaculation issues and teach them how to have multiple orgasms, longer orgasms, non-ejaculatory orgasms, and generally more powerful, full body orgasms. It’s nothing new or groundbreaking but surprisingly few men know about these topics and even fewer have the discipline to pursue this wonderful spiritual practice. It’s especially refreshing to have someone walk you through it so you not only have the enjoyment of the session but you get value of the educational info to take home and continue on your own.

I second this. Clients: if you’re not comfortable, don’t. Providers: you have every right to ask. Nobody is obliged to pay a deposit, no matter how much sense it makes, no matter how fair it is. At the same time, no one can tell a provider how to run his business. Please, can we all stop talking about this? Do it if you want. Don’t do it if you don’t want. Don’t complain about providers asking deposits. Don’t complain about clients who don’t pay deposits. Everyone, respectively (and respectfully): MOVE ON!

I’m one of the few who offers a high quality therapeutic massage across platforms. Ask any of my clients. I advertise on MasseurFinder, RentMasseur, RentMen, and others. I offer the whole range of services, but my massage quality never suffers when a client is hiring me for massage, even when they are also hiring me for more (time and rate apply to each). Agreed, it’s uncommon to find a good massage provider who advertises in all of those places, but we do exist.

That is so messed up. Every client has different tastes. A single provider can’t be everything to everyone, so it makes no sense to change oneself to fit one client preference for one session. Those types are real jerks. I get these types of harassing messages too. The latest one (today) told me I shouldn’t be doing this in my 30s and that I must have been bad at my other career because only “desperate” people are in this line of work. He proceeded to insult me in other ways and put me down while simultaneously trying to convince me to service his needs. So. Gross. I had to block him. The other day, a client said in person as we were wrapping up a session, “no offense, but you’re a regular looking guy….”, and proceeded with some stories about other providers he considered a lot more attractive who were lousy hires. I know I am not the most attractive provider on RentMen, no delusions about that, but trying to be the most “beautiful” is not my schtick anyhow. I think he meant it as a compliment because he was saying he would rather be with someone like me because of how I am as a person. Just a really weird thing to say in so many paraphrased words, “I find you less attractive and I think you’re less in demand, but I like you better anyway.” I say be yourself, groom yourself according to your own brand, style, and look and how you want to be seen. Embrace your body as it is. Work out and control diet if you want to present a certain look. Or don’t if you don’t want to. The right people will book you for simply being you. Those tend to be the best clients.

Thank you @pubic_assistance #1 Agree. Not everyone knows their status, even if they test frequently. They could have an STI and not know it, and also genuinely not be lying about it. #2 Not a realistic option for providers these days. Easy on the client side if condoms are no problem for you, but you’re dealing with only yourself and your chosen providers, not the whole market. Tons of people require bb as a condition of their hiring decisions. A provider can offer safe sex only, but that severely limits their market. Also, for #2, performance can be an issue for some providers. It’s difficult enough to get it up for a client the provider has zero sexual interest in, much less stay hard enough long enough to get past a very tight stubborn sphincter. Getting and maintaining an erection is a huge problem sometimes. Condoms make that mountain at least twice as steep. Not everyone is willing or able to rely on chemical assistance.