Zapped

While sex, pornography, and other behavioral issues may not (yet) be classified as disorders in the DSM-V, there certainly are a lot of people in the mental health community, especially those doing clinical work, who accept "sex addiction" and "porn addiction" as, at a minimum, useful working terms. Whether or not they are true addictions depends a lot on how "addiction" is defined. It can be a long path for something to make it into the DSM, especially if there isn't a drug company pushing a medication to treat the condition! It must be difficult to secure funding to do the necessary research to get something like a behavioral pattern classified as an addiction.
 
Meanwhile, I personally have found it very helpful to participate in the Sex Addicts Anonymous program, and very, very helpful to think of certain thought and behavior patterns as something addictive for me. For example, if I start in on porn it leads to phone sex which will take up all time I can make available, with my work and relationship with my husband suffering. And the fantasies get more and more extreme and exhausting.
 
What are fun, recreational sex activities for many guys are something I just can't handle. Saying to myself "I'm an addict" is really useful in keeping myself from starting something that I have found over and over I can't stop.
 
Whether or not this is a true addiction, strictly defined, is a good question. What's true for a lot of people like me is that it works to think of ourselves as addicts, in my case, anyway, knowing I'm using the term somewhat loosely.
 
There are a lot of therapists with "sex addiction" practices, books, articles, etc.

Don’t take this amiss @Chad Constantine.
 
With all the questions you’ve raised, I really feel you should take your thread into the locker-rooms, changing rooms and showers of gyms in the real world.
 
Perhaps you could tell gym-managers that you’ve been retained by underwear companies to survey what hot gay men, who are always fashion-forward, are actually wearing to the gym. I would be happy to help you draft an in-depth questionnaire.

I had a somewhat “flexible” friend who would “help me out” by letting me watch him jerk off and blow him, and I’d “help him out” with some cash. But we certainly never, ever, ever exchanged sex for money!
 
What, NEVER?
 
Well ... hardly ever.

I had a somewhat “flexible” friend who would “help me out” by letting me watch him jerk off and blow him, and I’d “help him out” with some cash. But we certainly never, ever, ever exchanged sex for money!
 
What, NEVER?
 
Well ... hardly ever.

I had a somewhat “flexible” friend who would “help me out” by letting me watch him jerk off and blow him, and I’d “help him out” with some cash. But we certainly never, ever, ever exchanged sex for money!
 
What, NEVER?
 
Well ... hardly ever.

I had a somewhat “flexible” friend who would “help me out” by letting me watch him jerk off and blow him, and I’d “help him out” with some cash. But we certainly never, ever, ever exchanged sex for money!
 
What, NEVER?
 
Well ... hardly ever.

I had a somewhat “flexible” friend who would “help me out” by letting me watch him jerk off and blow him, and I’d “help him out” with some cash. But we certainly never, ever, ever exchanged sex for money!
 
What, NEVER?
 
Well ... hardly ever.

This “paying is pathetic” point of view is sad, isn’t it? There are so many other experiences, from fine dining to massages, where we pay to get what we really want, done expertly, with care and commitment. Why not with erotic connection?

I don’t have the time to find the link right now, but there is a YMCA in Pennsylvania (I think) that actually banned nudity in the locker rooms.
 
How things have changed. 60 years ago, even 50 years ago, high school and college men’s swim classes were done in the nude. Colleagues told me that until sometime in the 1970s there were sex-segregated swim times for the college pool, and the men swam nude.
 
Now I have at least one younger colleague who wears shorts to shower in the common shower area.

I never liked being naked in a group when I was in school because I was fat. I didn't even like to wear shorts because my thighs were so chubby. Same thing thru most of my adulthood. But due to my solitary nature, the matter never came up very frequently.
 
I got over this a bit when I started hiring escorts and occasionally went to the bathhouse. But I don't go to the bathhouse very often. And I'd never go to a nude beach. Or if I did, I'd never strip.
 
Gman

It was just one of the things that men did-they weren't self-conscious about being nude around other men. In locker rooms, men walked around in the buff in front of each other without a thought. Guys who were self conscious were sissies.
 
I think it's just a prudish age. Men's locker rooms in health clubs always have individual showers now. It's another legacy of therapeutic parenting wherein parents try to spare their kids as much stress and discomfort as they can.

This “paying is pathetic” point of view is sad, isn’t it? There are so many other experiences, from fine dining to massages, where we pay to get what we really want, done expertly, with care and commitment. Why not with erotic connection?

While sex, pornography, and other behavioral issues may not (yet) be classified as disorders in the DSM-V, there certainly are a lot of people in the mental health community, especially those doing clinical work, who accept "sex addiction" and "porn addiction" as, at a minimum, useful working terms. Whether or not they are true addictions depends a lot on how "addiction" is defined. It can be a long path for something to make it into the DSM, especially if there isn't a drug company pushing a medication to treat the condition! It must be difficult to secure funding to do the necessary research to get something like a behavioral pattern classified as an addiction.
 
Meanwhile, I personally have found it very helpful to participate in the Sex Addicts Anonymous program, and very, very helpful to think of certain thought and behavior patterns as something addictive for me. For example, if I start in on porn it leads to phone sex which will take up all time I can make available, with my work and relationship with my husband suffering. And the fantasies get more and more extreme and exhausting.
 
What are fun, recreational sex activities for many guys are something I just can't handle. Saying to myself "I'm an addict" is really useful in keeping myself from starting something that I have found over and over I can't stop.
 
Whether or not this is a true addiction, strictly defined, is a good question. What's true for a lot of people like me is that it works to think of ourselves as addicts, in my case, anyway, knowing I'm using the term somewhat loosely.
 
There are a lot of therapists with "sex addiction" practices, books, articles, etc.

I think being with other naked men (in a non sexual way) is a validating ritual. I rode to CA AIDS Lifecycle ride in June, the ride ended in LA and I stayed a few days after (which included gay pride in LA). I went to a Russian bath - non sexual, but a place which celebrated men being together. There was steam, sauna, swimming, massage, showers etc. The old time Russian guys did Platza a ritual of drumming someone with oak branches w/leaves which have been soaked in water. It’s an ancient, beautiful non sexual ritual of healing. I was happy to watch the ritual while also enjoying a steam sauna whirlpool and massage.

I was just thinking about this earlier this evening, when I was showering in the otherwise empty locker room at the college where I have taught for over 30 years.
 
Back in the 1980s, there would be both faculty and students changing and showering in the locker room and using the sauna nude. Now, the students have their own locker room with individual shower stalls with curtained changing areas. And the sauna was removed after it gave out from old age and lack of maintainance.
 
During the day, especially at lunchtime, faculty and staff still change and shower together and almost everyone is comfortable with being naked around each other.
 
Sometimes I’m nostalgic for the old days and the sense of community that comes with non-sexual nudity. But in these post-Sandusky, #metoo days, I am relieved that there is rarely a student in the shower area, and I find I’m now uncomfortable when there are high school or younger kids in the locker room when I’m even briefly naked. I have no idea how anything, even just being naked in the shower, might be misinterpreted. Friendly banter sitting naked with athletic students in the sauna? Who knows what someone might make of it. I wouldn’t even want to hang out naked with younger colleagues in the current climate.
 
When I took showers after gym class in middle and high school, it never crossed my mind that a coach or teacher might be interested in me sexually. And I’m sure it was not a concern to my parents. Now, who knows? After Jerry Sandusky, everyone is suspect to some degree or another.
 
Separate from that, while most of us got over being naked around other guys in school and Y locker rooms, or in the service, and soon found it liberating, some didn’t and were traumatized. In the 60s and 70s it was too bad for them. Now it just can’t be done. So generations have now grown up never having had to take showers with others, suspicious that their coaches and teachers might be interested in them sexually, and aware that cell phone and hidden cameras are almost ubiquitous.
 
And, ironically, so many of them send naked photos of themselves to each other.
 
Anyway, I did enjoy the naked college jocks while it lasted!

I was just thinking about this earlier this evening, when I was showering in the otherwise empty locker room at the college where I have taught for over 30 years.
 
Back in the 1980s, there would be both faculty and students changing and showering in the locker room and using the sauna nude. Now, the students have their own locker room with individual shower stalls with curtained changing areas. And the sauna was removed after it gave out from old age and lack of maintainance.
 
During the day, especially at lunchtime, faculty and staff still change and shower together and almost everyone is comfortable with being naked around each other.
 
Sometimes I’m nostalgic for the old days and the sense of community that comes with non-sexual nudity. But in these post-Sandusky, #metoo days, I am relieved that there is rarely a student in the shower area, and I find I’m now uncomfortable when there are high school or younger kids in the locker room when I’m even briefly naked. I have no idea how anything, even just being naked in the shower, might be misinterpreted. Friendly banter sitting naked with athletic students in the sauna? Who knows what someone might make of it. I wouldn’t even want to hang out naked with younger colleagues in the current climate.
 
When I took showers after gym class in middle and high school, it never crossed my mind that a coach or teacher might be interested in me sexually. And I’m sure it was not a concern to my parents. Now, who knows? After Jerry Sandusky, everyone is suspect to some degree or another.
 
Separate from that, while most of us got over being naked around other guys in school and Y locker rooms, or in the service, and soon found it liberating, some didn’t and were traumatized. In the 60s and 70s it was too bad for them. Now it just can’t be done. So generations have now grown up never having had to take showers with others, suspicious that their coaches and teachers might be interested in them sexually, and aware that cell phone and hidden cameras are almost ubiquitous.
 
And, ironically, so many of them send naked photos of themselves to each other.
 
Anyway, I did enjoy the naked college jocks while it lasted!

I was just thinking about this earlier this evening, when I was showering in the otherwise empty locker room at the college where I have taught for over 30 years.
 
Back in the 1980s, there would be both faculty and students changing and showering in the locker room and using the sauna nude. Now, the students have their own locker room with individual shower stalls with curtained changing areas. And the sauna was removed after it gave out from old age and lack of maintainance.
 
During the day, especially at lunchtime, faculty and staff still change and shower together and almost everyone is comfortable with being naked around each other.
 
Sometimes I’m nostalgic for the old days and the sense of community that comes with non-sexual nudity. But in these post-Sandusky, #metoo days, I am relieved that there is rarely a student in the shower area, and I find I’m now uncomfortable when there are high school or younger kids in the locker room when I’m even briefly naked. I have no idea how anything, even just being naked in the shower, might be misinterpreted. Friendly banter sitting naked with athletic students in the sauna? Who knows what someone might make of it. I wouldn’t even want to hang out naked with younger colleagues in the current climate.
 
When I took showers after gym class in middle and high school, it never crossed my mind that a coach or teacher might be interested in me sexually. And I’m sure it was not a concern to my parents. Now, who knows? After Jerry Sandusky, everyone is suspect to some degree or another.
 
Separate from that, while most of us got over being naked around other guys in school and Y locker rooms, or in the service, and soon found it liberating, some didn’t and were traumatized. In the 60s and 70s it was too bad for them. Now it just can’t be done. So generations have now grown up never having had to take showers with others, suspicious that their coaches and teachers might be interested in them sexually, and aware that cell phone and hidden cameras are almost ubiquitous.
 
And, ironically, so many of them send naked photos of themselves to each other.
 
Anyway, I did enjoy the naked college jocks while it lasted!

I was just thinking about this earlier this evening, when I was showering in the otherwise empty locker room at the college where I have taught for over 30 years.
 
Back in the 1980s, there would be both faculty and students changing and showering in the locker room and using the sauna nude. Now, the students have their own locker room with individual shower stalls with curtained changing areas. And the sauna was removed after it gave out from old age and lack of maintainance.
 
During the day, especially at lunchtime, faculty and staff still change and shower together and almost everyone is comfortable with being naked around each other.
 
Sometimes I’m nostalgic for the old days and the sense of community that comes with non-sexual nudity. But in these post-Sandusky, #metoo days, I am relieved that there is rarely a student in the shower area, and I find I’m now uncomfortable when there are high school or younger kids in the locker room when I’m even briefly naked. I have no idea how anything, even just being naked in the shower, might be misinterpreted. Friendly banter sitting naked with athletic students in the sauna? Who knows what someone might make of it. I wouldn’t even want to hang out naked with younger colleagues in the current climate.
 
When I took showers after gym class in middle and high school, it never crossed my mind that a coach or teacher might be interested in me sexually. And I’m sure it was not a concern to my parents. Now, who knows? After Jerry Sandusky, everyone is suspect to some degree or another.
 
Separate from that, while most of us got over being naked around other guys in school and Y locker rooms, or in the service, and soon found it liberating, some didn’t and were traumatized. In the 60s and 70s it was too bad for them. Now it just can’t be done. So generations have now grown up never having had to take showers with others, suspicious that their coaches and teachers might be interested in them sexually, and aware that cell phone and hidden cameras are almost ubiquitous.
 
And, ironically, so many of them send naked photos of themselves to each other.
 
Anyway, I did enjoy the naked college jocks while it lasted!

I was just thinking about this earlier this evening, when I was showering in the otherwise empty locker room at the college where I have taught for over 30 years.
 
Back in the 1980s, there would be both faculty and students changing and showering in the locker room and using the sauna nude. Now, the students have their own locker room with individual shower stalls with curtained changing areas. And the sauna was removed after it gave out from old age and lack of maintainance.
 
During the day, especially at lunchtime, faculty and staff still change and shower together and almost everyone is comfortable with being naked around each other.
 
Sometimes I’m nostalgic for the old days and the sense of community that comes with non-sexual nudity. But in these post-Sandusky, #metoo days, I am relieved that there is rarely a student in the shower area, and I find I’m now uncomfortable when there are high school or younger kids in the locker room when I’m even briefly naked. I have no idea how anything, even just being naked in the shower, might be misinterpreted. Friendly banter sitting naked with athletic students in the sauna? Who knows what someone might make of it. I wouldn’t even want to hang out naked with younger colleagues in the current climate.
 
When I took showers after gym class in middle and high school, it never crossed my mind that a coach or teacher might be interested in me sexually. And I’m sure it was not a concern to my parents. Now, who knows? After Jerry Sandusky, everyone is suspect to some degree or another.
 
Separate from that, while most of us got over being naked around other guys in school and Y locker rooms, or in the service, and soon found it liberating, some didn’t and were traumatized. In the 60s and 70s it was too bad for them. Now it just can’t be done. So generations have now grown up never having had to take showers with others, suspicious that their coaches and teachers might be interested in them sexually, and aware that cell phone and hidden cameras are almost ubiquitous.
 
And, ironically, so many of them send naked photos of themselves to each other.
 
Anyway, I did enjoy the naked college jocks while it lasted!

I was just thinking about this earlier this evening, when I was showering in the otherwise empty locker room at the college where I have taught for over 30 years.
 
Back in the 1980s, there would be both faculty and students changing and showering in the locker room and using the sauna nude. Now, the students have their own locker room with individual shower stalls with curtained changing areas. And the sauna was removed after it gave out from old age and lack of maintainance.
 
During the day, especially at lunchtime, faculty and staff still change and shower together and almost everyone is comfortable with being naked around each other.
 
Sometimes I’m nostalgic for the old days and the sense of community that comes with non-sexual nudity. But in these post-Sandusky, #metoo days, I am relieved that there is rarely a student in the shower area, and I find I’m now uncomfortable when there are high school or younger kids in the locker room when I’m even briefly naked. I have no idea how anything, even just being naked in the shower, might be misinterpreted. Friendly banter sitting naked with athletic students in the sauna? Who knows what someone might make of it. I wouldn’t even want to hang out naked with younger colleagues in the current climate.
 
When I took showers after gym class in middle and high school, it never crossed my mind that a coach or teacher might be interested in me sexually. And I’m sure it was not a concern to my parents. Now, who knows? After Jerry Sandusky, everyone is suspect to some degree or another.
 
Separate from that, while most of us got over being naked around other guys in school and Y locker rooms, or in the service, and soon found it liberating, some didn’t and were traumatized. In the 60s and 70s it was too bad for them. Now it just can’t be done. So generations have now grown up never having had to take showers with others, suspicious that their coaches and teachers might be interested in them sexually, and aware that cell phone and hidden cameras are almost ubiquitous.
 
And, ironically, so many of them send naked photos of themselves to each other.
 
Anyway, I did enjoy the naked college jocks while it lasted!

Being naked for SOMEONE has always been different to me than being naked for EVERYONE. I could escort in a heartbeat....but I could NEVER have been a stripper.

Thanks for that great summary.
 
Years and years ago, I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder with recurrence (my psychiatrist disagreed with a previous diagnosis of bipolar disorder) and generalized anxiety disorder. After some experimentation, I ended up on Pristiq (which I loved for its lack of sexual side effects) for the depression, trazodone for insomnia, and and Xanax for both anxiety and insomnia (which are, I know, related).
 
After lots of therapy, regular exercise, dealing with porn addiction through the SAA 12-step program, developing friendships in which I can talk honestly and regularly, getting involved in a gay-friendly church I love, and leaving a job with a toxic work environment, plus practicing mindfulness when it comes to my automatic thoughts, I am off of both the the Pristiq and trazodone.
 
I don’t know if my depression is “cured” but certainly the work of therapy combined with getting enough sleep, exercising regularly, having genuine connection with others, and regular exercise has enabled me to not be in its clutches and prepared me to get off most of the meds.
 
I’m still taking 1m of Xanax before I go to sleep, down from a peak of 2-3 m, with some taken during the day as needed. My psychiatrist is comfortable with this 1m before bed continuing indefinitely. I’d like to get off it althogether. I considered stopping cold turkey, but read enough about withdrawal to not risk that. I suggested to my psychiatrist that we switch my prescription to 4 X .25 m per day, so that I could start by taking 3.5 X .25 m and gradually reduce from there. He hasn’t wanted to do that and suggested I start using a razor blade to just shave off a small portion of the 1 m pills, and gradually increasing the amount cut off.
 
This seems like it would be too hard to control in practice and I’ve delayed trying to implement it.
 
He seems delighted I am doing well off the Pristiq and trazodone, which I am. He also seems perfectly happy with an if-it’s-not-broke-don’t-fix-it approach and having me stay on the 1m of Xanax at bed forever.
 
So, unlike the patients who would fight for their Xanax, it’s almost like I have to fight to get off Xanax. (Yes, I could and evidently I should try the shaving technique.)

I do.
 
After many years of therapy and lots and lots of Xanax, I eventually found that meditation and mindfulness, especially in the form of describing the thoughts, feelings, etc., being triggered to a trusted friend, to be enormously calming.
 
Massage is great, too!

I've been escorting 16 years now. It's always been sole support. I think that's the Crisco anniversary, btw.
 
Kevin Slater

The hand twist action drives most guys crazy!
 
Also if he goes down on you be aware of how he does it. It might be the way he likes it for himself. That’s been my experience.