A good question in another part of the forum

[N13]

There is a thread in the Deli about this and someone suggested it is better asked in this Forum. What should we, the clients, do if someone who is hired as a top cannot perform? Cannot get hard? This is what we are paying for. What do you, the escorts, think we should do. Just accept it and suck it up? Pay only a portion of the fee? It is a serious question that many of us clients have.

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

There is a thread in the Deli about this and someone suggested it is better asked in this Forum. What should we, the clients, do if someone who is hired as a top cannot perform? Cannot get hard? This is what we are paying for. What do you, the escorts, think we should do. Just accept it and suck it up? Pay only a portion of the fee? It is a serious question that many of us clients have.

Thanks @N13 ! Here's my original post. I genuinely would love to know how to proceed in these kind of situations.

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/guys-who-cant-perform.137133/

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

Also, I understand that there must be incredible pressure to stay fit, healthy, young etc. In an industry where so much of it is objectification and letting other people project their fantasies, desires, issues on you, it must come with insane expectations. There are things that we (clients) overlook all of the time, a little age shaving, adding inches to dick size, adding inches to height etc. I think those are acceptable exaggerations, but at what point do we call BS and refuse to meet our side of the bargain when the other side clearly isn't able to live up to promises made?

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

When he's really 46 but says he's 29, when he says he's buff with a 6-pack but he's let himself go, when he claims to be 8" long when he's really 5" on a good day : I at least am honest, but I don't advertise. Either walk away right away, or never repeat (and complain here, of course).

But what happens when you're in the middle of your meeting and then things go south (Pun intended) I can understand walking away if someone doesn't look anything like what they've advertised. But performance is another thing altogether. I can't tell if that's an issue or not until we've already started getting into things. Performance is not subjective, if the horse can't run, it can't run. At what point is it ok to walk away once the date has already started?

[TruthBTold]

But what happens when you're in the middle of your meeting and then things go south (Pun intended) I can understand walking away if someone doesn't look anything like what they've advertised. But performance is another thing altogether. I can't tell if that's an issue or not until we've already started getting into things. Performance is not a subjective, if the horse can't run, it can't run. At what point is it ok to walk away once the date has already started?

 

In some ways, I would handle it like a regular date. I would probably stop and ask if something is wrong because he does not seem engaged as you had expected. If it is a hardness issue, just explain that you had really wanted to get fucked, he was not hard and so it did not seem like it was going to happen. If he says that it will happen then keep going knowing you had put him on notice that there were expectations that the session was based on. If it progresses and still does not happen I think you have every right to adjust the fee to what services you received.

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

In some ways, I would handle it like a regular date. I would probably stop and ask if something is wrong because he does not seem engaged as you had expected. If it is a hardness issue, just explain that you had really wanted to get fucked, he was not hard and so it did not seem like it was going to happen. If he says that it will happen then keep going knowing you had put him on notice that there were expectations that the session was based on. If it progresses and still does not happen I think you have every right to adjust the fee to what services you received.

Thank you! Makes sense and is a very simple solution.

[+ purplekow]

Thank you! Makes sense and is a very simple solution.

In theory. However, you are in theory paying for time not rigidity. I would keep a few Viagra around and ask if that might help the situation. As to and I quote you: "Just accept it and suck it up". That might just solve the problem, especially if you are good at sucking it up.

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

In theory. However, you are in theory paying for time not rigidity. I would keep a few Viagra around and ask if that might help the situation. As to and I quote you: "Just accept it and suck it up". That might just solve the problem, especially if you are good at sucking it up.

LOL! Touché Trust me I tried, but at some point it becomes clear that you're just pulling taffy.

[+ Keith30309]

That “adjust the fee” is a difficult thing for me.

I saw a guy for the first time last week and there was something considered pretty mainstream that he declined to do.

I went back and looked at his RM profile and, sure enough, “oral” wasn’t listed

Ok... my bad for making an incorrect assumption.

 

I’ve never done any “adjusting”, even when things have gone south. Ultimately I asked for and got X hours of time and as long as my companion is acting in good faith then I consider it a lesson learned for both of us.

(The question of not attaining an erection has come up several times in the past and I have a really have a hard time penalizing someone for a natural human response... or lack thereof.)

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

That “adjust the fee” is a difficult thing for me.

I saw a guy for the first time last week and there was something considered pretty mainstream that he declined to do.

I went back and looked at his RM profile and, sure enough, “oral” wasn’t listed

Ok... my bad for making an incorrect assumption.

 

I’ve never done any “adjusting”, even when things have gone south. Ultimately I asked for and got X hours of time and as long as my companion is acting in good faith then I consider it a lesson learned for both of us.

(The question of not attaining an erection has come up several times in the past and I have a really have a hard time penalizing someone for a natural human response... or lack thereof.)

I agree it's a grey area. I don't think there's a singular solution. It's gotta be a matter of handling it on a case by case basis. Yes we are paying for time, not performance. On the other hand, if I went into a restaurant and they served me something that wasn't even close to what I ordered, I'd certainly have no issue sending it back. Yes, it's a shaky analogy, because an escort is not a plate of pasta. But, you get my drift.

[N13]

Paying for time is a euphemism. You know it and the provider knows it. It is not a 'get out of jail free' card if the provider does not live up to his end of the bargain. Would you pay a dentist if his drill did not work (pun not intended!). If you can't speak Italian don't hire yourself out as an Italian teacher! Why is the client always expected to overlook deficiencies but the escort gets excused? I would still like to hear the justifications, excuses and suggestions from the escorts on this board.

[N13]

I agree it's a grey area. I don't think there's a singular solution. It's gotta be a matter of handling it on a case by case basis. Yes we are paying for time, not performance. On the other hand, if I went into a restaurant and they served me something that wasn't even close to what I ordered, I'd certainly have no issue sending it back. Yes, it's a shaky analogy, because an escort is not a plate of pasta. But, you get my drift.

 

What is grey about it. You contracted for a service. He could not deliver. Where is the grey?

[TruthBTold]

As I mentioned, the working person did (probably) deliver some of the things he promised but as noted above other services over and above were contracted for. If the working guy says in his profile he is into certain things then it is not unreasonable to expect those. So the client can offer what he believes the actually delivered services were worth. If the working guy believes he delivered over and above that then he can claim it. Both parties (no matter how embarrassingly) can argue their positions. Unfortunately the client in the end has the final say because he does have the money. I think most clients will be fair.

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

What is grey about it. You contracted for a service. He could not deliver. Where is the grey?

The gray for me is that we are talking about people and services. These aren't hard goods (pun intended that we're talking about. We're dealing with perception, interpretation, expectation, projection, objectification, and a WIDE range of comfort levels...especially when it comes to straight identifying men who are operating as gay for pay. Buying and selling an experience is all so ephemeral. I mean look at the threads about the BFE experience. Everyone has their own idea of what that entails, and it seems that none of us can wholly agree on what that is. These guys are flesh and blood humans who are going to have "bad days". I understand all of that. I started this thread mostly looking to hear what other clients (and providers too) have done and how they feel in those situations. Some providers have integrity and would most likely be flexible. Other providers are shady motherfuckers who just wanna get the coins and go. That's where the gray is for me. Plus it's life, life is a whole mess of gray areas.

[N13]

Hard is hard. Soft is not acceptable or forgivable if money is changing hands.

[Guest TheOtherGuy]

Hard is hard. Soft is not acceptable or forgivable if money is changing hands.

LOL! Damn, @N13 I thought I was a hard ass! Were you a high ranking official in the military or something? The next time I need to call someone out on some shenanigans or buffoonery, I am coming to you for moral support first!

[LaffingBear]

Hard is hard. Soft is not acceptable or forgivable if money is changing hands.

Good luck enforcing that. You're paying for time.

 

If very firm on that policy, and paying a reduced fee, or no fee, I'd include consideration of consequences. Is it worth the argument? The aggravation factor? Potential follow up text- or email-bombs, or whatever cyber bullying is possible? If in your location, could he break stuff out of spite on the way out.

 

I negotiate contracts in my career. Im often critical on these forums of guys who allow themselves to be victimized. Ive departed at the start or very early in a session. I forced a faker out of my home last Fall when he started the session with intolerable actions, paying him a portion just to get rid him. Ive even picked up a hotel room phone and asked for security (the guy bolted, so I said "never mind.)

 

But I cant imagine doing more than expressing disappointment to the guy who spends the time, but doesnt get hard.... maybe hoping for some acknowledgement.

[N13]

You're paying for time.

 

Patently untrue! We all know what we are paying for. What we have to say to hook up is another story!

[BigK]

But what happens when you're in the middle of your meeting and then things go south (Pun intended) I can understand walking away if someone doesn't look anything like what they've advertised. But performance is another thing altogether. I can't tell if that's an issue or not until we've already started getting into things. Performance is not subjective, if the horse can't run, it can't run. At what point is it ok to walk away once the date has already started?

 

Why don't you just tell someone you want to see, after they've agreed to cum, that you consider $100 of their fee for cumming and so if they don't feel confident then just cancel the appointment or if they agree and can't perform then pay them $100 less as you advised them in advance that you would do.

[+ purplekow]

Why don't you just tell someone you want to see, after they've agreed to cum, that you consider $100 of their fee for cumming and so if they don't feel confident then just cancel the appointment or if they agree and can't perform then pay them $100 less as you advised them in advance that you would do.

What if he comes twice?

[MikeBiDude]

Patently untrue! We all know what we are paying for. What we have to say to hook up is another story!

Big generalization there....many do in fact pay for time, date, talk. Not my preference...but I do know there is no such thing as one comment fits all here.

[+ GregM]

Also, I understand that there must be incredible pressure to stay fit, healthy, young etc. In an industry where so much of it is objectification and letting other people project their fantasies, desires, issues on you, it must come with insane expectations. There are things that we (clients) overlook all of the time, a little age shaving, adding inches to dick size, adding inches to height etc. I think those are acceptable exaggerations, but at what point do we call BS and refuse to meet our side of the bargain when the other side clearly isn't able to live up to promises made?

 

That's why I don't participate in the shaving and adding numbers game. Its bull shit and I refuse to play it....EVER! My height, weight, sick size and age are all accurate. And there's a number of people on the board who can voucher for most of all. If someone does not show up as advertised or can't perform send them home. I don't know why this is just a hard concept to follow. If you buy a TV and it doesn't work would you keep it?

 

Hugs,

Greg

[MichBoyBlake]

There is a thread in the Deli about this and someone suggested it is better asked in this Forum. What should we, the clients, do if someone who is hired as a top cannot perform? Cannot get hard? This is what we are paying for. What do you, the escorts, think we should do. Just accept it and suck it up? Pay only a portion of the fee? It is a serious question that many of us clients have.

 

Personally I try to be very clear that it's just time that's being paid for. I'm naturally more of a bottom, but I do have a vers side and I'm comfortable topping. That being said, I'm always completely upfront about any of this kind of stuff. I haven't had to think about this before really, but personally if I felt that I under-performed with a client, or a client were to tell me, in a nice, comfortable way, that they felt I had under-performed, I wouldn't think of asking for the full rate. There's still some part of it I'd probably have to ask for, but again I think this is also why it's generally best to pay afterwards and not upfront. There needs to be some level of trust on both ends. I'm sure there are also situations that could happen where I'd apologize profusely and waive the entire rate.

 

I do hope that sorta helped answer your question... I just feel it's a bit difficult to give a real concise answer to this because it's soo dependent on the entire situation and the booking.

 

That being said, I don't think it's ever a good idea to be rude to a provider or a client.. if things don't work out right between the provider and client you should be vocal and willing to figure out a way to resolve it, but imo anyone treating anyone else with disrespect or rudeness in this business is pretty difficult to justify and a huge red flag. There's enough hate as it is, people shouldn't be throwing it around here.

 

IMO as a client you should be willing to politely end the session, walk away and never book with that person again if you don't want to. As a provider, my main goal is to have regular clients and I would think most providers feel the same way, so just not being booked again by that same person should send enough of a message of what you did wrong as a provider, and should show the provider how they can improve.

 

There's just really no reason to ever get vile with anyone I think, especially when this is already looked down and despised by people as much as it is.

[+ saminseattle]

Paying for time is a euphemism. You know it and the provider knows it.

 

Patently untrue! We all know what we are paying for.

 

I don't know any such thing. Perhaps you should speak for yourself instead of presuming to speak for others?

[N13]

I don't know any such thing. Perhaps you should speak for yourself instead of presuming to speak for others?

 

Ah, yes, I am sure the vast multitudes hire escorts without any expectation of physical 'stuff.' They spend hundreds of dollars just to pass the time. If your response was not meant to be snarky, I apologize.