Str8 groups

[+ quoththeraven]

I'm unsure why an attempt to diminish was coupled with a compliment. But, in my "own little way," I gladly accept the compliment and refuse the diminishment.

 

Yes, you're quite right. The "born this way" crowds on the left, right, and middle all deeply reject/resent the research supporting the importance of "nurturing" over "nature." What really gets fascinating is the research into how environmental factors cause biologic/genetic changes even faster than our currently generally accepted understanding of Evolution. It's almost like our genes are multiple-choice "adventures" that are being built/shaped by our choices/experiences/environments.

This is the part most people don't understand: that genetic change is a feedback loop. It's not unidirectional. I didn't know it until reading Cordelia Fine's takedown of evolutionary psychology research, Delusions of Gender. A genetic difference between gay and straight men (or, as in her book, boys and girls) can be a response to environmental factors, not an inherent characteristic.

 

Evolutionary psychology is deeply flawed, and the proof is this: there is no way to determine that any trait is inherent and not the result of social conditioning, which research demonstrates is particularly powerful, if the subjects of the research are socially conditioned. Since we all are subject to social conditioning, evolutionary psychology should therefore encourage the eradication of labels and differences and an attempt to treat everyone the same in the name of improving the rigor of research conclusions, but it doesn't. It would rather assume an unsupported conclusion, suggesting that what's really going on isn't scientific but political.

[+ quoththeraven]

Im not sure I am following here with all this talk of consent. How many str8 men have been making claims that gay men are raping them? What city is this happening in? Most interactions are so covert and underground they will probably never see the light of day unless they gay identified party exposes the liason which is often what happens. I see straight guys in these transactions as autonomous actors who have weighed the pros and cons and made a decision. The exception may be if drugs alcohol or duress of some type is involved. Other than that I believe any mentally competent adult is quite capable of deciding if they want to have a quid pro quo encounter with someone of the same sex.

No one. I just have a bug up my ass about manipulation and like to question things. (Remember this all started with my question of why pursue a straight guy.) It's possible to be coercive by working to change a "no" to a "yes."

 

Let's turn things around. How is this different from a woman hitting on a gay man persistently?

[LivingnLA]

This is the part most people don't understand: that genetic change is a feedback loop. It's not unidirectional. I didn't know it until reading Cordelia Fine's takedown of evolutionary psychology research, Delusions of Gender. A genetic difference between gay and straight men (or, as in her book, boys and girls) can be a response to environmental factors, not an inherent characteristic.

 

Evolutionary psychology is deeply flawed, and the proof is this: there is no way to determine that any trait is inherent and not the result of social conditioning, which research demonstrates is particularly powerful, if the subjects of the research are socially conditioned. Since we all are subject to social conditioning, evolutionary psychology should therefore encourage the eradication of labels and differences and an attempt to treat everyone the same in the name of improving the rigor of research conclusions, but it doesn't. It would rather assume an unsupported conclusion, suggesting that what's really going on isn't scientific but political.

 

In fairness, this concept--our biology changing during our lifetimes based on environmental factors--is pretty recent and "mind blowing" given Essentialism in Western thought. Though, it's being thoroughly and completely challenged and deconstructed. It's only taken a couple millennia. The research into the criticality of the "starting conditions" during pregnancy has been fascinating too. What mother's eat, their stress levels, etc. all create conditions that result in substantially different outcomes even for twins (at least in mice) or the recent epigenetic work finding how early childhood experiences influenced inflammatory responses in adulthood or the research into how poverty seems to result in significantly less brain development in key structures.

 

I won't go so far as to say "Evolutionary psychology is deeply flawed." But, I will say it's immature and based on an incomplete and flawed foundation. Given that it's barely a century old though, we shouldn't be surprised. It still has training wheels and regularly crashes into things. I have hope that our growing capacity to capture and process vast datasets will help us better understand the incredible complexity of human psychology.

Edited April 12, 2018 by LivingnLA

[Bearofdistinction]

What is an AUTHENTIC str8 man?

 

You know - They have a Certificate of Authenticity from QVC tattooed on their cocks

[LivingnLA]

Lol in your own litte way is a figure of speech. Im saying you are rejecting what i am saying objectively not as a personal attack. In your own little way impliee its your idiosyncratic writing style.

 

I'm unfamiliar with that phrase as a figure of speech that implies anything about an "idiosyncratic writing style." It still sounds like an attempted putdown or effort to minimize/trivialize, but I'll take your word for it that your intent was to describe my writing as idiosyncratic, which is certainly true. I'm proud of my weirdness.

[+ goosh69]

I am from a big city n travel to big cities frequently. However there is a big deal between david beckham who is stylish without being a stylista. There is a difference between suave and fierce. Both can have on gucci loafers one is strutting the other sashaying. One is thinkin "im the man up in here" the other "yaaas bitch im stuntin"

 

A lot of younger straight men (especially in NYC, London, Stockholm, and LA) put in MORE effort than a lot of sub-cultures of younger gay men. And being effeminate is an entirely new topic you’ve diverted towards.

[+ quoththeraven]

In fairness, this concept--our biology changing during our lifetimes based on environmental factors--is pretty recent and "mind blowing" given Essentialism in Western thought. Though, it's being thoroughly and completely challenged and deconstructed. It's only taken a couple millennia. The research into the criticality of the "starting conditions" during pregnancy has been fascinating too. What mother's eat, their stress levels, etc. all create conditions that result in substantially different outcomes even for twins (at least in mice) or the recent epigenetic work finding how early childhood experiences influenced inflammatory responses in adulthood or the research into how poverty seems to result in significantly less brain development in key structures.

 

I won't go so far as to say "Evolutionary psychology is deeply flawed." But, I will say it's immature and based on an incomplete and flawed foundation. Given that it's barely a century old though, we shouldn't be surprised. It still has training wheels and regularly crashes into things. have hope that our growing capacity to capture and process vast datasets will help us better understand our incredible complexity.

I realize the feedback loop is a relatively recent discovery that hasn't been reported on. That's why I said hardly anyone knows about it.

 

I've read papers on evolutionary psychology that have obvious problems, such as assuming preferences of photos of people's faces has anything to do with mating theory (people form long-term relationships and have children for reasons different from hookups; judging a photo array is not an adequate proxy for choice of mate) and as I said the research totally overlooks the fact that none of it can be conducted under controlled conditions. Sexologist Dr. Emily Nagoski and neuroscientist Dr. Cordelia Fine, as well as others, have written thorough critiques. And for crying out loud, evolutionary psychologists should be familiar with the feedback loop. If anything, "deeply flawed" is a mild characterization.

 

Evolutionary biology doesn't have nearly this level of problems and it's not much older as a discipline.

[LivingnLA]

I realize the feedback loop is a relatively recent discovery that hasn't been reported on. That's why I said hardly anyone knows about it.

 

I've read papers on evolutionary psychology that have obvious problems, such as assuming preferences of photos of people's faces has anything to do with mating theory (people form long-term relationships and have children for reasons different from hookups; judging a photo array is not an adequate proxy for choice of mate) and as I said the research totally overlooks the fact that none of it can be conducted under controlled conditions. Sexologist Dr. Emily Nagoski and neuroscientist Dr. Cordelia Fine, as well as others, have written thorough critiques. And for crying out loud, evolutionary psychologists should be familiar with the feedback loop. If anything, "deeply flawed" is a mild characterization.

 

Evolutionary biology doesn't have nearly this level of problems and it's not much older as a discipline.

 

All fair points. I would posit--without a shred of in-depth analysis--that psychology is more nuanced and complicated than biology. (dons flame-retardant underwear)

[+ quoththeraven]

All fair points. I would posit--without a shred of in-depth analysis--that psychology is more nuanced and complicated than biology. (dons flame-retardant underwear)

Oh, absolutely, which is double the reason to tread carefully and not essentialize it.

[Aaron_Bauder]

I am from a big city n travel to big cities frequently. However there is a big deal between david beckham who is stylish without being a stylista. There is a difference between suave and fierce. Both can have on gucci loafers one is strutting the other sashaying. One is thinkin "im the man up in here" the other "yaaas bitch im stuntin"

 

Are you having a contest with yourself to see how many ridiculous, outdated stereotypes you can cram into one thread lol? Most teenagers these days have a more realistic and nuanced understanding of sexuality and the tired 1950s-era tropes you assign to them. I mean, good grief haha

Edited April 12, 2018 by Aaron_Bauder

[+ Charlie]

I would like to see a credible scientific study on what "most teenagers" understand about sexuality, as well as definitions of "realistic" and "nuanced." (Does it mean they think like me?)

[LivingnLA]

I would like to see a credible scientific study on what "most teenagers" understand about sexuality, as well as definitions of "realistic" and "nuanced." (Does it mean they think like me?)

 

Me too! My kids are pretty advanced for their age, but I don't believe they're the norm. After all, few school districts have schools like ours: incredibly well funded and staffed with highly educated and passionate professionals who are intent on creating world-class learning environments.

[tradehunter]

No one. I just have a bug up my ass about manipulation and like to question things. (Remember this all started with my question of why pursue a straight guy.) It's possible to be coercive by working to change a "no" to a "yes."

 

Let's turn things around. How is this different from a woman hitting on a gay man persistently?

 

You did the most! No one mentioned coerciveness or harrassment or multiple failed attempts. Its about doing it right the first time and if you fail then try again with someone else.

[tradehunter]

I'm unfamiliar with that phrase as a figure of speech that implies anything about an "idiosyncratic writing style." It still sounds like an attempted putdown or effort to minimize/trivialize, but I'll take your word for it that your intent was to describe my writing as idiosyncratic, which is certainly true. I'm proud of my weirdness.

 

Lol. Please dont overthink. What i mean is on this board when ppl disagree with you it feels like an attack. Your responses are objective and scholarly so even though your not arguing your disagreeing "in your own little way"

[tradehunter]

Can we keep this thread relevant to boards. We got a bit distracted sexual psychology but this is daddys reviews the deli forum.

 

 

Who here has seduced more than one str8 guy at a time that they believed were exclusively attracted to women and exclusively dated women?

[+ goosh69]

Can we keep this thread relevant to boards. We got a bit distracted sexual psychology but this is daddys reviews the deli forum.

 

 

Who here has seduced more than one str8 guy at a time that they believed were exclusively attracted to women and exclusively dated women?

 

It’s YOU who are the wrong forum! The Deli is for discussion of ESCORTS, not your sexual fantasy.

[tradehunter]

It’s YOU who are the wrong forum! The Deli is for discussion of ESCORTS, not your sexual fantasy.

 

Yes so maybe someone has had two escorts who worked in pairs.

[+ quoththeraven]

It’s YOU who are the wrong forum! The Deli is for discussion of ESCORTS, not your sexual fantasy.

Which means the Lounge would be a more apt forum.

[+ quoththeraven]

Yes so maybe someone has had two escorts who worked in pairs.

Which puts a different spin on things. I wouldn't have asked the same (or any) question in that case.

[+ FreshFluff]

Forgive me for saying this, QTR, but you think like a woman. Most men, including gay men, are more concerned with whether they find their sexual partner attractive than whether the sexual partner finds them attractive. It is why men are much more likely to hire sex partners than women are.

 

Women do care a great deal about their partners' attraction to them, far more so than men. But that doesn't mean that men don't care about it at all. Take a look at the straight sex tourist sites; even the guys who admit that they are conventionally unattractive spend a lot of time trying to convince others that the escorts they've hired are hot for them. ("I gave that girl her first orgasm!") That's one of the reasons men brag about getting it for free. They think it means they're more attractive than the next punter.

[tradehunter]

Hey thread got revived. So i take it no one,adventerous to go after str8 guys in groups?

[+ sniper]

If you're talking about paying, isn't it by definition not "seduction?" I think your choice of language is part of the confusion here.

 

Do you mean:

a) having a not for compensation sexual experience with multiple men simultaneously who identify as straight?

I think this is more likely when one is in HS or college and some sort of horseplay gets out of hand thing, but it's hardly the kind of thing one person is likely to "set up" as there is tremendous downside risk that the straight guys will beat the shit out of the "seducer" or worse. But if you're talking about just something like jerking off in the gym steamroom, tons of guys have done that.

 

b)hiring multiple straight escorts? I'm sure a lot of people on here have. Most M4M escorts lean straight and are in it because of the money, which simply isn't there with women clients.

 

c) Offering money to str8 guys to have sex with a man for the first time? Again, wouldn't call this seduction. And let's be a little real, clients(not all, but many) skew towards not being the best at chatting up strangers, or they wouldn't be hiring in the first place. (Again, not all, yes I'm sure there are plenty of clients who can get plenty on their own and hire for convenience, but there are also quite a few who do it because it's much harder for them to get something started, whether it be some form of social anxiety or something else of the sort).

 

d) something else?

[tradehunter]

If you're talking about paying, isn't it by definition not "seduction?" I think your choice of language is part of the confusion here.

 

Do you mean:

a) having a not for compensation sexual experience with multiple men simultaneously who identify as straight?

I think this is more likely when one is in HS or college and some sort of horseplay gets out of hand thing, but it's hardly the kind of thing one person is likely to "set up" as there is tremendous downside risk that the straight guys will beat the shit out of the "seducer" or worse. But if you're talking about just something like jerking off in the gym steamroom, tons of guys have done that.

 

b)hiring multiple straight escorts? I'm sure a lot of people on here have. Most M4M escorts lean straight and are in it because of the money, which simply isn't there with women clients.

 

c) Offering money to str8 guys to have sex with a man for the first time? Again, wouldn't call this seduction. And let's be a little real, clients(not all, but many) skew towards not being the best at chatting up strangers, or they wouldn't be hiring in the first place. (Again, not all, yes I'm sure there are plenty of clients who can get plenty on their own and hire for convenience, but there are also quite a few who do it because it's much harder for them to get something started, whether it be some form of social anxiety or something else of the sort).

 

d) something else?

 

Hqve you tried any on the list without a black eye?