Str8 groups

[+ Charlie]

I'm questioning the ethics of throwing money at men with no experience with men or sexual interest in them because to me it feels like a disrespectful erasure of boundaries. I'm sure there are ways to seduce them that aren't, but it's easy for me to see that as manipulative, which is the opposite of sex intended for the pleasure of both parties.

 

Also, this is a strange thing to say to someone who's hired. I only have sex with people I'm attracted to also. I don't go around fishing for compliments on my appearance or sexual attractiveness.

 

As far as my partner is concerned, my sole criterion is willingness. Willingness isn't usually an issue, though. It's more an issue relevant to men, yet they're socialized to ignore or minimize it.

 

I get it if you think I'm being overly harsh or out of line commenting because I'm not a gay or bisexual man, but that's why I framed this as a series of questions to you all. It wasn't intended to start a discussion about me.

I certainly don't think you are harsh or out of line in any of your postings. My point was that women tend to think of sex as more natural and desirable if there is mutual attraction between the partners, whereas my experience is that most men don't care as much about whether the object of their sexual desire returns that desire. Of course, many men--perhaps most--do find the experience more pleasant when there is mutual attraction, but that is frequently less important in their calculation of sexual satisfaction than it is for most women. A man who wants to have sex with men who are not likely to be attracted to him may have a number of motivations, ranging from wanting to change the other man's attitude to wanting to punish him by making him do something he won't enjoy, to wanting to be humiliated himself, but in many cases he simply wants to use the other man for his own satisfaction. Women are more likely to see human relationships as subject to subject, while men often see relationships as subject to object, i.e., the partner is experienced as simply a detached ass, a cock, or a cunt. (I know, I know: this is oversimplified psychological analysis.)

[LivingnLA]

I certainly don't think you are harsh or out of line in any of your postings. My point was that women tend to think of sex as more natural and desirable if there is mutual attraction between the partners, whereas my experience is that most men don't care as much about whether the object of their sexual desire returns that desire. Of course, many men--perhaps most--do find the experience more pleasant when there is mutual attraction, but that is frequently less important in their calculation of sexual satisfaction than it is for most women. A man who wants to have sex with men who are not likely to be attracted to him may have a number of motivations, ranging from wanting to change the other man's attitude to wanting to punish him by making him do something he won't enjoy, to wanting to be humiliated himself, but in many cases he simply wants to use the other man for his own satisfaction. Women are more likely to see human relationships as subject to subject, while men often see relationships as subject to object, i.e., the partner is experienced as simply a detached ass, a cock, or a cunt. (I know, I know: this is oversimplified psychological analysis.)

 

Highly oversimplified but nice summary. Thanks for contributing.

[+ goosh69]

Forgive me for saying this, QTR, but you think like a woman. Most men, including gay men, are more concerned with whether they find their sexual partner attractive than whether the sexual partner finds them attractive. It is why men are much more likely to hire sex partners than women are.

 

SOOOOO true.

[+ quoththeraven]

If the OP was asking for suggestions on how to "talk" a straight guy into sex, that's an all-together different matter and not something I would agree with as it enters the gray area of sexual coercion/harassment headed toward assault.

That was the impression I got. I realize now some of that was due to the terseness of the language.

[+ quoththeraven]

I certainly don't think you are harsh or out of line in any of your postings. My point was that women tend to think of sex as more natural and desirable if there is mutual attraction between the partners, whereas my experience is that most men don't care as much about whether the object of their sexual desire returns that desire. Of course, many men--perhaps most--do find the experience more pleasant when there is mutual attraction, but that is frequently less important in their calculation of sexual satisfaction than it is for most women. A man who wants to have sex with men who are not likely to be attracted to him may have a number of motivations, ranging from wanting to change the other man's attitude to wanting to punish him by making him do something he won't enjoy, to wanting to be humiliated himself, but in many cases he simply wants to use the other man for his own satisfaction. Women are more likely to see human relationships as subject to subject, while men often see relationships as subject to object, i.e., the partner is experienced as simply a detached ass, a cock, or a cunt. (I know, I know: this is oversimplified psychological analysis.)

That's much more helpful to me than your previous post. I agree with you; however, that is also the basis of my concern because it can easily result in coercion of the sort @LivingnLA describes.

[+ goosh69]

TOP has not clarified so it could be as some suggest or not. Sounds conversion-y as-is.

[tradehunter]

Forgive me for saying this, QTR, but you think like a woman. Most men, including gay men, are more concerned with whether they find their sexual partner attractive than whether the sexual partner finds them attractive. It is why men are much more likely to hire sex partners than women are.

 

I was about to say since when have men, gay or straight, cared whether their partner wants to look deep into their eyes and talk about their hopes and dreams.

 

Str8 guys take advantage of drunk sorority girls who cant consent all the time. Its not always as easy for hot straight guys to get laid as one might think. Many girls of caliber know screwing early will get them written off as sluts and many want to be wooooed. There are so many dynamics that are hard to type out.

 

One of the coldest hardest truths is that str8 guys have an attractiveness that is laidback and not thought out. Its a roll outta bed brush ur teeth head for the door hot. Its the i can get under the hood of the car n show uo to home depot with grease all over my clothes hot. Its the i can do yard work with holes in my house clothes hot. Its the i dont need to fuck with my eyebrows or facial fillers hot.

 

I have seen many good looking gay men in my day but they always have been super aware of it n it has always gone to their head.

 

Have you ever seen a group shot of marines or firefighters or cops? No one is in designer clothes has vidal sasson haircuts or airbrushed for the gods but that natural boy next door/dad next door charm trumphs all.

 

Some ppls idea of hotness is mannequin doll with puckered pink lips perfectly coiffed dyed or bleached hair. Brows waxed to the high heavens and the fierce zoolander face in photos. But some want the opposite and maximize their chances of finding that.

[tradehunter]

A lot of homophobia is caused by the belief that “the gays are coming to convert you.” I argued that that ridiculous, only to see thread like this, appear again and again. I guess there’s no use to that.

 

I not going to ask any not to hire straight guys, do what makes you happy. But if you do, especially if you are only interested in str8 guys, please do me one thing. Don’t ever protest, or speak out against conversion therapy!

 

My thoughts on conversion therapy is if its done by a consenting adult it is perfectly fine. They no longer do electric shock as that is proven to be ineffective but what most refer to as conversion therapy is just psychotherapy dealing with sexual fantasies, sexual behavior and the causes or origins of them.

Edited April 10, 2018 by tradehunter

[tradehunter]

Thanks! I think.

 

I do not believe in coercion. Consent should be enthusiastic and informed, otherwise it's at least sexual assault/harassment and potentially rape.

 

Have their been times when alcohol or weed were involved in some of my experiences? Yes. Did I ever engage in sexual coercion? No. That's a line I refuse to cross.

 

If the OP was asking for suggestions on how to "talk" a straight guy into sex, that's an all-together different matter and not something I would agree with as it enters the gray area of sexual coercion/harassment headed toward assault.

 

This view is very extreme considering the board we are on. Most men on this board have zero chance with the men they persue through various methods discussed here if not for the almighty dollar. I guess they all need to head down to the orecinct and start their sex offrnder registration.

[tradehunter]

I certainly don't think you are harsh or out of line in any of your postings. My point was that women tend to think of sex as more natural and desirable if there is mutual attraction between the partners, whereas my experience is that most men don't care as much about whether the object of their sexual desire returns that desire. Of course, many men--perhaps most--do find the experience more pleasant when there is mutual attraction, but that is frequently less important in their calculation of sexual satisfaction than it is for most women. A man who wants to have sex with men who are not likely to be attracted to him may have a number of motivations, ranging from wanting to change the other man's attitude to wanting to punish him by making him do something he won't enjoy, to wanting to be humiliated himself, but in many cases he simply wants to use the other man for his own satisfaction. Women are more likely to see human relationships as subject to subject, while men often see relationships as subject to object, i.e., the partner is experienced as simply a detached ass, a cock, or a cunt. (I know, I know: this is oversimplified psychological analysis.)

 

Its funny how someone can dissect the musings of the carnal and boorish male mind so eloquently..

 

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!!!!

[+ quoththeraven]

I was about to say since when have men, gay or straight, cared whether their partner wants to look deep into their eyes and talk about their hopes and dreams.

 

Str8 guys take advantage of drunk sorority girls who cant consent all the time. Its not always as easy for hot straight guys to get laid as one might think. Many girls of caliber know screwing early will get them written off as sluts and many want to be wooooed. There are so many dynamics that are hard to type out.

 

One of the coldest hardest truths is that str8 guys have an attractiveness that is laidback and not thought out. Its a roll outta bed brush ur teeth head for the door hot. Its the i can get under the hood of the car n show uo to home depot with grease all over my clothes hot. Its the i can do yard work with holes in my house clothes hot. Its the i dont need to fuck with my eyebrows or facial fillers hot.

 

I have seen many good looking gay men in my day but they always have been super aware of it n it has always gone to their head.

 

Have you ever seen a group shot of marines or firefighters or cops? No one is in designer clothes has vidal sasson haircuts or airbrushed for the gods but that natural boy next door/dad next door charm trumphs all.

 

Some ppls idea of hotness is mannequin doll with puckered pink lips perfectly coiffed dyed or bleached hair. Brows waxed to the high heavens and the fierce zoolander face in photos. But some want the opposite and maximize their chances of finding that.

If you think this division is inevitable, then God help us all.

 

#NotAllGayMen

[+ quoththeraven]

This view is very extreme considering the board we are on. Most men on this board have zero chance with the men they persue through various methods discussed here if not for the almighty dollar. I guess they all need to head down to the orecinct and start their sex offrnder registration.

Please note we're talking about seducing str8 men, not about sex with gay and bisexual men.

[+ pitman]

A lot of homophobia is caused by the belief that “the gays are coming to convert you.” I argued that that ridiculous, only to see thread like this, appear again and again. I guess there’s no use to that.

http://store.treasureislandmedia.com/WE-ARE-COMING-FOR-YOU.html

[LivingnLA]

Huh. This thread has gone in some interesting directions. I have no idea if what I'm about to type out will add, divert, or detract from the discussions. Let's find out.

 

The idea that "straight guys" have an intrinsic hotness is constructed, just as their hotness is by the heteronormative culture within which we all live. Are there some biological foundations for stuff? Sure. We are social primates after all. Our evolution has resulted in a species with multilayered emotions and reactions.

 

Our society is heteronormative, it should be no surprise "straight guys" are highly attractive to many people. When historic homophobia, sexism, racism, classism, lookism, and ageism are added, it becomes clear that "straight guy" is just one of many constructed images of attractiveness. Image is mediated and constructed. It's reasonable, given how attractive "confidence" is to our species, that people who "seem naturally attractive" (which really just means they closely align with a given culture's constructed "ideal") are seen as desirable.

 

Switching to another topic: consent. Modern thinking is moving toward "enthusiastic consent" as a more complete, equitable, and humane understanding and approach to relationships. It will take decades of thought and effort to fully explore this complex topic as we attempt to construct a society that respects personal and professional boundaries for all human beings for the first time in history. This is an incredibly difficult concept because we are tackling fundamental animal characteristics from the earliest development of our species. The idea "the strong dominate the weak" privileges physical prowess, which underpins the desirability of muscular/strong men. As we continue to move into a future where we claim to value an individual's rights, we as a society must overcome these "baser animal instincts" when they put people in harm's way.

 

I thoroughly believe in enthusiastic consent. I teach my children about it and encourage them and everyone in my life to understand it and value it because research shows how it makes relationships safer, happier, and healthier for all parties in the relationship.

 

It's trickier in this particular hobby, since there is the clear power dynamic: clients have money (power) that escorts (need/want). I rationalize--yes I understand my own bias in this--my "hobby" by actively supporting efforts to fight human trafficking and by trying to make sure that my actions and words do not support an exploitative interaction or situation.

[+ quoththeraven]

Seduction of a str8 man works great as a BDSM scene because there's a negotiation ahead of time and a safeword. That's a viable alternative with anyone, including men who identify as str8.

 

I'm only suggesting willingness, guys. Money complicates that but doesn't make it impossible.

[+ quoththeraven]

Huh. This thread has gone in some interesting directions. I have no idea if what I'm about to type out will add, divert, or detract from the discussions. Let's find out.

 

The idea that "straight guys" have an intrinsic hotness is constructed, just as their hotness is by the heteronormative culture within which we all live. Are there some biological foundations for stuff? Sure. We are social primates after all. Our evolution has resulted in a species with multilayered emotions and reactions.

 

Our society is heteronormative, it should be no surprise "straight guys" are highly attractive to many people. When historic homophobia, sexism, racism, classism, lookism, and ageism are added, it becomes clear that "straight guy" is just one of many constructed images of attractiveness. Image is mediated and constructed. It's reasonable, given how attractive "confidence" is to our species, that people who "seem naturally attractive" (which really just means they closely align with a given culture's constructed "ideal") are seen as desirable.

 

Switching to another topic: consent. Modern thinking is moving toward "enthusiastic consent" as a more complete, equitable, and humane understanding and approach to relationships. It will take decades of thought and effort to fully explore this complex topic as we attempt to construct a society that respects personal and professional boundaries for all human beings for the first time in history. This is an incredibly difficult concept because we are tackling fundamental animal characteristics from the earliest development of our species. The idea "the strong dominate the weak" privileges physical prowess, which underpins the desirability of muscular/strong men. As we continue to move into a future where we claim to value an individual's rights, we as a society must overcome these "baser animal instincts" when they put people in harm's way.

 

I thoroughly believe in enthusiastic consent. I teach my children about it and encourage them and everyone in my life to understand it and value it because research shows how it makes relationships safer, happier, and healthier for all parties in the relationship.

 

It's trickier in this particular hobby, since there is the clear power dynamic: clients have money (power) that escorts (need/want). I rationalize--yes I understand my own bias in this--my "hobby" by actively supporting efforts to fight human trafficking and by trying to make sure that my actions and words do not support an exploitative interaction or situation.

+1. If I had that clapping gif on my tablet, I'd use it.

[+ poolboy48220]

I remember a lot of the Bel Ami videos had bits at the start where they interviewed the guys and were careful to have them state their explicit consent on camera.

[+ quoththeraven]

I remember a lot of the Bel Ami videos had bits at the start where they interviewed the guys and were careful to have them state their explicit consent on camera.

Kink.com had that too. Speaking of which, does anyone know what's going on with them now that they've moved out of the Armory? (I forget if they sold it or not.) Are they filming elsewhere or are they out of the video business altogether going forward?

[tradehunter]

Huh. This thread has gone in some interesting directions. I have no idea if what I'm about to type out will add, divert, or detract from the discussions. Let's find out.

 

The idea that "straight guys" have an intrinsic hotness is constructed, just as their hotness is by the heteronormative culture within which we all live. Are there some biological foundations for stuff? Sure. We are social primates after all. Our evolution has resulted in a species with multilayered emotions and reactions.

 

Our society is heteronormative, it should be no surprise "straight guys" are highly attractive to many people. When historic homophobia, sexism, racism, classism, lookism, and ageism are added, it becomes clear that "straight guy" is just one of many constructed images of attractiveness. Image is mediated and constructed. It's reasonable, given how attractive "confidence" is to our species, that people who "seem naturally attractive" (which really just means they closely align with a given culture's constructed "ideal") are seen as desirable.

 

Switching to another topic: consent. Modern thinking is moving toward "enthusiastic consent" as a more complete, equitable, and humane understanding and approach to relationships. It will take decades of thought and effort to fully explore this complex topic as we attempt to construct a society that respects personal and professional boundaries for all human beings for the first time in history. This is an incredibly difficult concept because we are tackling fundamental animal characteristics from the earliest development of our species. The idea "the strong dominate the weak" privileges physical prowess, which underpins the desirability of muscular/strong men. As we continue to move into a future where we claim to value an individual's rights, we as a society must overcome these "baser animal instincts" when they put people in harm's way.

 

I thoroughly believe in enthusiastic consent. I teach my children about it and encourage them and everyone in my life to understand it and value it because research shows how it makes relationships safer, happier, and healthier for all parties in the relationship.

 

It's trickier in this particular hobby, since there is the clear power dynamic: clients have money (power) that escorts (need/want). I rationalize--yes I understand my own bias in this--my "hobby" by actively supporting efforts to fight human trafficking and by trying to make sure that my actions and words do not support an exploitative interaction or situation.

 

 

You add some true value to this forum. I have always said I dont care where people stand on an issue but if they can defend it objectively or even subjectively in an eloquent way everyone can coincide harmoniously. It is when people think they need to disagree and jump down someones throat that we cant see eye to eye and learn anything. In your own little way you were disagreeing with what I said above and I can see your points. Alot of our attractions are so subconcious and are programmed by society. However watch out cause the "born this way" crowd might come for your hide and skin you alive.

[tradehunter]

Seduction of a str8 man works great as a BDSM scene because there's a negotiation ahead of time and a safeword. That's a viable alternative with anyone, including men who identify as str8.

 

I'm only suggesting willingness, guys. Money complicates that but doesn't make it impossible.

 

Im not sure I am following here with all this talk of consent. How many str8 men have been making claims that gay men are raping them? What city is this happening in? Most interactions are so covert and underground they will probably never see the light of day unless they gay identified party exposes the liason which is often what happens. I see straight guys in these transactions as autonomous actors who have weighed the pros and cons and made a decision. The exception may be if drugs alcohol or duress of some type is involved. Other than that I believe any mentally competent adult is quite capable of deciding if they want to have a quid pro quo encounter with someone of the same sex.

[LivingnLA]

You add some true value to this forum. I have always said I dont care where people stand on an issue but if they can defend it objectively or even subjectively in an eloquent way everyone can coincide harmoniously. It is when people think they need to disagree and jump down someones throat that we cant see eye to eye and learn anything. In your own little way you were disagreeing with what I said above and I can see your points. Alot of our attractions are so subconcious and are programmed by society. However watch out cause the "born this way" crowd might come for your hide and skin you alive.

 

I'm unsure why an attempt to diminish was coupled with a compliment. But, in my "own little way," I gladly accept the compliment and refuse the diminishment.

 

Yes, you're quite right. The "born this way" crowds on the left, right, and middle all deeply reject/resent the research supporting the importance of "nurturing" over "nature." What really gets fascinating is the research into how environmental factors cause biologic/genetic changes even faster than our currently generally accepted understanding of Evolution. It's almost like our genes are multiple-choice "adventures" that are being built/shaped by our choices/experiences/environments.

[+ goosh69]

Anyone who says straight men make little effort to look good hasn’t actually seen a straight man under 40 in most gateway cities. They all have so much hair product now, slim fit/athletic fit whatever clothes, go the gym, etc.

[tradehunter]

I'm unsure why an attempt to diminish was coupled with a compliment. But, in my "own little way," I gladly accept the compliment and refuse the diminishment.

 

Yes, you're quite right. The "born this way" crowds on the left, right, and middle all deeply reject/resent the research supporting the importance of "nurturing" over "nature." What really gets fascinating is the research into how environmental factors cause biologic/genetic changes even faster than our currently generally accepted understanding of Evolution. It's almost like our genes are multiple-choice "adventures" that are being built/shaped by our choices/experiences/environments.

 

Lol in your own litte way is a figure of speech. Im saying you are rejecting what i am saying objectively not as a personal attack. In your own little way impliee its your idiosyncratic writing style.

[tradehunter]

Anyone who says straight men make little effort to look good hasn’t actually seen a straight man under 40 in most gateway cities. They all have so much hair product now, slim fit/athletic fit whatever clothes, go the gym, etc.

 

I am from a big city n travel to big cities frequently. However there is a big deal between david beckham who is stylish without being a stylista. There is a difference between suave and fierce. Both can have on gucci loafers one is strutting the other sashaying. One is thinkin "im the man up in here" the other "yaaas bitch im stuntin"

[+ quoththeraven]

I am from a big city n travel to big cities frequently. However there is a big deal between david beckham who is stylish without being a stylista. There is a difference between suave and fierce. Both can have on gucci loafers one is strutting the other sashaying. One is thinkin "im the man up in here" the other "yaaas bitch im stuntin"

But even if this is universally true (a dubious assumption), these are not inborn attitudes but conditioned ones. Or at the very least it's impossible to determine which came first, the orientation or the way it's expressed.

 

Consider the likelihood that sashaying evolved as a way to identify other gay men and it evolved as sashaying to differentiate itself from normative heterosexual behavior, which itself evolved to fit socially constructed ideals.

 

Belief in orientation and its use as an identity is relatively recent anyway. Before that sexual behavior was viewed as just that, not some expression of immutable identity.