Was Alexander The Great Gay?

[+ Avalon]

I don't think so. That Greek love idea was between an older man and a younger man. Alexander and Hephaestion were about the same age. What they had I think today would be called a bromance. And regarding Bagoas I don't think sex with a eunuch makes one gay.

 

Alexander had two wives one of whom bore him a son and a mistress who bore him a son.

[Kevin Slater]

I highly recommend The Persian Boy by Mary Renault which explores this.

 

Kevin Slater

[+ Avalon]

I highly recommend The Persian Boy by Mary Renault which explores this.

 

Kevin Slater

 

 

Good book! I have read it.

 

Here is info on it

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Persian_Boy

 

I have read several other of Mary Renault's books but "The Persian Boy" is the only one that I really care for.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Avalon

[MikeyGMin]

I don't think so. That Greek love idea was between an older man and a younger man. Alexander and Hephaestion were about the same age. What they had I think today would be called a bromance. And regarding Bagoas I don't think sex with a eunuch makes one gay.

 

Alexander had two wives one of whom bore him a son and a mistress who bore him a son.

Interesting take on it. I don't think there's any way anyone can say without having lived the context of the day, but if I remember correctly, aftee Hephaestion's death, he built temples to honor him and his life cratered out of control. Doesn't sound like the reaction to the death of a bro.

 

I also don't think the fact that he wanted children to carry on his dynasty is very compelling evidence of heterosexuality.

[+ friendofsheila]

Interesting take on it. I don't think there's any way anyone can say without having lived the context of the day, but if I remember correctly, aftee Hephaestion's death, he built temples to honor him and his life cratered out of control. Doesn't sound like the reaction to the death of a bro.

 

I also don't think the fact that he wanted children to carry on his dynasty is very compelling evidence of heterosexuality.

 

Well put.

[samhexum]

 

Obviously not, or he would have been Alexander the Fabulous.

Edited July 13, 2019 by samhexum

[+ not2rowdy]

Here is an old thread that might be of interest.

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/eunuch.84938/

 

+1 on The Persian Boy

 

Also the movie “Alexander” by Oliver Stone. Look for one of the the enhanced versions and watch the intro to the film.

 

Alexander, Revisited: The Final Cut

Special Edition (2008)

Director’s Cut (2014)

[+ StLouisOct]

Reminds me of the old story about the Greek snd the Italian trying to impress one another. "Ah, the Greeks founded Athens", "Yes, but the Italians created Rome." "Well, the Greeks built the Acropolis." "Yes, but the Romans built the Coliseum." "Hah!, the Greeks invented sex." "To be sure, but the Italians introduced it to women."

[+ José Soplanucas]

I do not think we could understand the way Classic Greeks lived sexuality if we project our understanding of homosexuality and heterosexuality. Do not forget these sexual "identities" are relatively new.

Edited October 15, 2017 by latbear4blk

[+ ArVaGuy]

The Ancients didn't define sexuality by the same standards as we have today.

I do not think we could understand the way Classic Greeks live sexuality if we project our understanding of homosexuality and heterosexuality. Do not forget these sexual "identities" are relatively new.

 

Exactly. The Ancients had a much more flexible sexual practice than we have today. It most certainly wasn't "identity" based.

 

Julius Caesar was referred to as the "wife" of the king of Bithynia as a young man while posted on a diplomatic mission. His affair was so notable that his legionnaires joked about it to his face during his campaigns. His womanizing and affairs were all public fodder. I would not define him as bisexual or gay or even polyamorous.

[+ José Soplanucas]

The Ancients didn't define sexuality by the same standards as we have today.

 

 

Exactly. The Ancients had a much more flexible sexual practice than we have today. It most certainly wasn't "identity" based.

 

Julius Caesar was referred to as the "wife" of the king of Bithynia as a young man while posted on a diplomatic mission. His affair was so notable that his legionnaires joked about it to his face during his campaigns. His womanizing and affairs were all public fodder. I would not define him as bisexual or gay or even polyamorous.

 

We do not have to go as far as the Classic Age to find homosexual practices unattached to an homosexual identity. I still remember how abundant the "chongos" were back in Argentina. "Chongos" (bufarrones, Soplanucas, and who knows what the slang denomination was in other countries) are masculine guys who enjoy now and them fucking another guy as tops, even flip flopping in some not so usual situations. They cruise around public restrooms in train stations in Buenos Aires. These homosexual acts were inconsequential for their identity. Unfortunately, even when they still exists, they are becoming more and more marginal as Gayness takes over through globalization.

[Chuckball]

Exactly @latbear4blk . The Kinsey study found that in the American Midwest, workers on cattle drives would engage in homosexuality only to pick up with female prostitutes or pick up when they arrived at an urban centre.

[+ sniper]

I thought it was fairly settled that something like a third of men will dabble when confined in all-male environments for extended periods, then only pursue women if they are available. It's essentially masturbatory in my opinion versus actual desire. I have zero interest in women myself but I can imagine if somehow all men disappeared tomorrow I might do something with a woman. I'd still consider myself exclusively gay in orientation.

[BaronArtz]

The Greeks, and even more so the Romans, slept with everybody - men, women, even children. There are ample references in literature and art, most of which produced during the era of ancient Greek and Roman civilizations.

[chirob]

He was definitely gay, but very picky. I threw myself at him but never got anywhere with him.

[Rudynate]

Exactly @latbear4blk . The Kinsey study found that in the American Midwest, workers on cattle drives would engage in homosexuality only to pick up with female prostitutes or pick up when they arrived at an urban centre.

 

 

I worked on a project cataloging a collection that had been donated to the Gay and Lesbian Center at the San Francisco Public Library. I remember coming across a fascinating study looking at homosexual activity in CCC camps during the Depression.

 

Supposedly, there was a lot of homosexual activity in hobo encampments in the US in the early 20th century.

 

I know a guy who spent a few years in prison. He told me that sexual activity between guys in prison is indeed extremely common. He said when he was being in-processed, he noticed a big sign on the wall urging inmates to report incidents of sexual assault.

[Rudynate]

I highly recommend The Persian Boy by Mary Renault which explores this.

 

Kevin Slater

 

Definitely a great read. I might have read it three times. But I don't know if I would rely on it as an authoritative source.

[Rudynate]

We do not have to go as far as the Classic Age to find homosexual practices unattached to an homosexual identity. I still remember how abundant the "chongos" were back in Argentina. "Chongos" (bufarrones, Soplanucas, and who knows what the slang denomination was in other countries) are masculine guys who enjoy now and them fucking another guy as tops, even flip flopping in some not so usual situations. They cruise around public restrooms in train stations in Buenos Aires. These homosexual acts were inconsequential for their identity. Unfortunately, even when they still exists, they are becoming more and more marginal as Gayness takes over through globalization.

 

 

I lived in Germany in the 70s, when there were lots of guest-workers in Germany from southern Europe and Turkey. A lot of the Turks were single men, or they were married and had wives and families back in Turkey. They tended to congregate in places like parks and train stations. It was a pretty simple thing to pick up a Turk for a quickie in one of these places. I never did. I was very attracted to a lot of them, but I was afraid of them.

[actor61]

I highly recommend The Persian Boy by Mary Renault which explores this.

 

Kevin Slater

I'm not a Renault fan, although I did enjoy "The Mask of Apollo". I couldn't get through "The Persian Boy".

[OCClient]

I highly recommend The Persian Boy by Mary Renault which explores this.

 

Kevin Slater

 

Back when there were LGBT bookstores in most large cities, I wondered into one where the owner recommended The Persian Boy, which remains a favorite of mine today.

 

Mary Renault and Julie Millard left the UK and lived out their years together in South Africa, where Renault wrote The Persian Boy and her other historical novels. Renault was well regarded by President Kennedy and received letters from fans around the world.

 

Her writing is not for everyone. I'd call it college level reading. It is subtle and deeply thematic. Her Oxford background is apparent. JRR Tolkien was one of her professors.

 

Renault portrayed a few characters as clearly gay and others as fluid, trying both men and women, though one sometimes has to read between the lines to understand when they let loose their same sex passion. Some want to criticize that she never discussed her sexuality, that she refused to comment outside of her books concerning gay people. One might remember back then, publishers would not print certain content. The Brits where still shaming gays and tossing them in jail for same sex love and affection. The world was fortunate back then to have her works and I hope we continue to appreciate how great she was.

 

Renault's Last of the Wine is such an epic story! How Lysis loved his Alexias so! It may tear your heart out. Also, try The King Must Die and then continue with Bull From the Sea. Astounding and epic, dealing with the matriarchies of antiquity and their gods.

[samhexum]

 

Obviously not, or he would have been Alexander the Fabulous.

 

Alexander the Great was ‘buried alive’ after disease paralyzed him

 

The mystery over the death of Alexander the Great may have finally been solved – and his passing was grislier than historians had ever imagined.

 

The fearsome military genius succumbed to a rare disease that left him paralyzed for six days, gradually robbing him of his ability to move, speak and breath, claims a new study.

 

It means the ancient Macedonian ruler was likely still alive while his loyal soldiers prepared his body for burial in 323 BC.

 

His muscles were paralyzed to the point that doctors couldn’t see he was still breathing, meaning he was pronounced dead nearly a week early.

 

One of history’s finest warmongers, Alexander the Great established the largest empire the ancient world had ever seen through a series of ferocious military conquests.

 

At the age of 25, his army overcame overwhelming odds to crush the Persian territories of Asia Minor, Syria and Egypt without suffering a single defeat.

 

The towering leader died suddenly in Babylon aged 32 and for decades historians have puzzled over what finished him off, with some blaming typhoid, alcoholism or even poison.

 

Now health scientists in New Zealand think they have the answer: A rare autoimmune disease that destroyed his body from the inside. The findings were published in The Ancient History Bulletin.

 

They suggest the condition left him paralyzed and unable to speak, meaning his staff failed to recognize, for nearly a week, that their king was still alive.

 

“I wanted to stimulate new debate and discussion and possibly rewrite the history books by arguing Alexander’s real death was six days later than previously accepted,” said study author Dr. Katherine Hall, of the Dunedin School of Medicine in New Zealand.

 

“His death may be the most famous case of pseudothanatos, or false diagnosis of death, ever recorded.”

 

Her team pored over ancient accounts of Alexander’s symptoms, as well as modern medical textbooks, for their research.

 

His illness is said to have begun after a raucous night of drinking in which he downed 12 pints of wine.

 

Alexander complained of fatigue and “generalized aches” the next morning, but chose to power through another dozen pints of wine.

 

A day later and sharp abdominal pains plagued Alexander, while an increasingly severe fever took hold.

 

Bedridden and in excruciating pain, the great leader gradually lost his ability to move, only able to flicker his eyes and twitch his hands just eight days after his symptoms began.

 

By the eleventh day, the King of Macedonia and Persia was pronounced dead, though staff claimed he remained sound of mind right until the end.

 

Hall says Alexander’s symptoms match up with the brain disorder Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS).

 

The disease occurs when the body’s immune system attacks its nervous system, gradually paralyzing the victim.

 

It affects one in 100,000 people in the UK and US today.

 

Hall says GBS would explain the fearsome warrior’s paralysis, which first took the use of his legs and arms before rendering him unable to speak.

 

The disease, caused by a bacterial infection in the stomach, does not affect the brain, which matches reports that Alexander was sound of mind through his illness.

 

His new diagnosis raises the gruesome possibility that Alexander was still alive long after he was pronounced dead.

 

At the time, doctors didn’t use your pulse to check if you were still alive, instead scouring victims for signs they were still breathing.

 

The paralysis would have gradually restricted his respiratory muscles until his breaths were so small that doctors couldn’t spot he was alive

 

Greek scholars later wrote that in the days after his death, Alexander’s body didn’t decompose, proving the warrior king was a god.

 

But Hall says this may have been because he was in fact still breathing.

 

However, Alexander’s breathing was so restricted that he likely was in a coma by the time preparations for his death began.

 

“It is very likely [he] was in a deep coma by this stage and would have had no awareness when they began their task,” she said.

 

Much about Alexander’s incredible life – and grim death – remains a mystery.

[bostonman]

 

Obviously not, or he would have been Alexander the Fabulous.

 

Love this! Especially because the way I first read the thread title, I saw it as a question about "Alexander -- the Great Gay."