A Question for the Fathers. Oh, the Sons, too!

[+ José Soplanucas]

I'm surprised, I would have expected more open mindness on this topic in this community. I am in my 50s now, I always liked guys in their 20s and I plan to continue enjoying their company for the rest of my life. If you think it is creepy, that is not really my problem.

I do not even care about the incest Tabu. I used to played with my cousins when I was in my teens. I used to be attracted to one of my brothers, I even touched him a few times when he was sleeping, if I never went further it is just because I was not corresponded. I never found my parents attractive, but I wonder what I would have done otherwise.

I think any relationship can be abussive or unhealthy, the positive or negative nature of an incestuous relationship depends on its particular circumstances.

And now, you can unleash the dogs on me.

[BasketBaller]

I don't think it's creepy to simply like younger guys, and didn't mean to imply that. I felt it would be creepy of me to be interested sexually in my sons' friends, some of whom I've known all their lives.

[+ Truereview]

Time for a little lightheartedness. This is one of my fave commercials. And, yes, women do it too, they just hide it better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U29xTCBcKq4

[+ FreshFluff]

And, yes, women do it too, they just hide it better!

 

http://previously.tv/m/2014-05-26-mm-b1.jpg

 

 

[+ purplekow]

I'm surprised, I would have expected more open mindness on this topic in this community. I am in my 50s now, I always liked guys in their 20s and I plan to continue enjoying their company for the rest of my life. If you think it is creepy, that is not really my problem.

I do not even care about the incest Tabu. I used to played with my cousins when I was in my teens. I used to be attracted to one of my brothers, I even touched him a few times when he was sleeping, if I never went further it is just because I was not corresponded. I never found my parents attractive, but I wonder what I would have done otherwise.

I think any relationship can be abussive or unhealthy, the positive or negative nature of an incestuous relationship depends on its particular circumstances.

And now, you can unleash the dogs on me.

Given a choice I prefer restaurants to home cooking. You never have to go back to a particular restaurant, while home cooking may stay with you for your whole life.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Given a choice I prefer restaurants to home cooking. You never have to go back to a particular restaurant, while home cooking may stay with you for your whole life.

 

I like both.

[MFLV]

I'm in your exact situation. Married guy with 3 kids with the younger two being identical twins. Oldest kid has a lot of really good looking friends. He was in a frat in college and when we would go visit his house was full of great looking guys in various stages of dress. I was exhausted from trying to look but very discreetly ! Lol. I felt no shame in looking but I would never touch.

[MFLV]

And yes, I get that feeling of feeling creepy when I am talking tu an escort that is around my kids ages. Fortunately I prefer guys in their 30s-50s so I don't think about the guy being my kids age. But damn those 20s guys are beautiful. Lol.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I am glad porn script writers do not have this kind of problem.

[LivingnLA]

Maybe I'm weird--no I KNOW I'm weird--but I'm struck by the variety of responses in this thread.

 

I can objectively say my children are attractive. I'm biased as a parent and the person who contributed half of their genetic material, but I've heard over the years about their attractiveness, so I believe I'm on solid ground. As objectively attractive as they are, I do not see them in a sexual way. Those of their friends who've effectively grown up in my house, treated me like their dad, etc. are all viewed through my dad protect and love filter. There are extended friends who I discreetly admire, but age also plays a roll for me since anything even hinting at a lack of clear consent is repugnant. That means my admiration doesn't begin until at least 18 and usually not until 20-21.

[oscarkin]

In the thread about what we'll all be doing in 10 or 20 years, several guys mentioned hiring top escorts, or their sons, or both.

 

Now this is a slightly delicate question, and I don't want to be misunderstood. I've mostly hired guys about my age, although I had several sessions with a younger escort early on. I prefer guys close in age to me still, but I can't deny that a hot young man is something special. BUT. I have a 19 year-old, son, and 17 year-old twins. They have friends I've known since they were all little. I feel protective of all of them.

 

Which makes my question potentially creepy, even if I don't intend it that way. As my boys get older, how do I deal with finding their friends and classmates attractive? I would never act on it but i don't really feel comfortable even thinking it. I suppose this is no different than a straight father of daughters finding their friends attractive.

 

This was inspired by an experience I had last week at a baseball game here in DC. There was a guy sitting near us I found hot. I wasn't ogling him, I just thought he was masculine and handsome, and yes, sexy. I came back from getting food to find my older boy talking to him-- they go to the same college. This kid was a year older, but still, I had been admiring one of my son's schoolmates.

 

I realize that that young escort I hired years ago was hardly any older then than my son is now. Is it creepy to be attracted to a guy whose father I could be?

 

Just to repeat, I am NOT planning on hitting on my sons' buddies! Just wondering about how to feel about admiring them and others close in age.

 

I had similar concerns when my son was still is high school (and I was also involved in helping to coach his teams) and I was very careful to maintain appropriate boundaries when I interacted with his friends. Now that he's a full-fledged adult approaching thirty, my concerns about being attracted to people his age have mostly gone away. I think that part of what happens is developmental -- your kids are always your kids but when they reach a certain age they're also fellow adults. I see no problem with being attracted to fellow adults, even if there is a fairly large discrepancy in age.

[+ quoththeraven]

I'm surprised, I would have expected more open mindness on this topic in this community. I am in my 50s now, I always liked guys in their 20s and I plan to continue enjoying their company for the rest of my life. If you think it is creepy, that is not really my problem.

I do not even care about the incest Tabu. I used to played with my cousins when I was in my teens. I used to be attracted to one of my brothers, I even touched him a few times when he was sleeping, if I never went further it is just because I was not corresponded. I never found my parents attractive, but I wonder what I would have done otherwise.

I think any relationship can be abussive or unhealthy, the positive or negative nature of an incestuous relationship depends on its particular circumstances.

And now, you can unleash the dogs on me.

 

I disagree pretty strongly about some aspects of the incest taboo. There is a difference in dynamic between lover and family relationships. Also, parent/child incest is fundamentally unbalanced in terms of power, even as adults. (And usually parent/child adult incest happens in situations where the parent has been mostly absent from their child's life.) I don't know of any studies, but I know of adult parent/child incestuous relationships that were only hurtful to the child. I read about one online; another is the subject of Kathryn Harris' memoir The Kiss.

 

And by that reasoning, how do you differentiate between incest that's okay and what Jerry Sandusky did to his adopted son?

 

Parent/child incest that begins before a child is adult, or in which the child is sexually groomed by the parent, is inherently abusive because children are brought up to please and obey their parents. Thus, there is no free consent, just like a slave can't give free consent to sex no matter what the age. There's a name for this: molestation and sexual abuse. That's why the largest US-based anti-sexual violence group is the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN).

 

There's also a reason it exists in porn but not real life. In real life it is almost universally damaging. There are studies and hours of therapy that tell us this. It is not a matter of "well, I didn't find my parents attractive." Not fucking each other is part of the type of authority and guidance a healthy parent-child relationship is made of. That may continue to be the case into adulthood.

 

I'm not too concerned about cousins except if there's an age gap or other indication this is molestation and abuse. Cousins can marry in many states anyway. Sibling incest is dicier because it can be abusive (think Eric Duggar), but a relationship between siblings in their late teens who are close in age isn't likely to be, in which case I don't see the problem unless they're opposite sex and not using birth control. (True whether or not they're related.)

 

Abuse does such horrifying psychological damage that I would rather err on the side of caution.

[+ quoththeraven]

Here's a personal story. The woman my father married after my mother died is three years older than me. I was 17 at the time. Forget about her looks or that she'd been out on her own working and taking care of herself since high school. Of course I wondered if that neant he had any sexual interest in me or my friends, one of whom went to Montreal with us a couple of years earlier, even though there was no sign of it. Of course I found the idea that he might want to sleep with one of my friends creepy and inappropriate. As her friend's father, the presumption is that he will act toward her as an honorary father, not a boyfriend.

 

I needed to hear my father acknowledge all that, reassure me how and why this was different, and acknowledge that she was the right choice for him but not me. He had also dated a woman closer to him in age who was a music teacher. She would have been a better fit for me, but when he asked me who he should marry, I told him it was his decision. He never did any of that, and it hurt our relationship.

 

To get back to the question: When it comes to children's friends, admire but don't act or touch. As for escorts, do what you please as long as they're adults. I have an informal "nobody under 30" guideline because any closer and they were more my daughter's peer than mine and because they might not have the level of maturity I was looking for, but I might be willing to bend that for the right person. In dating, I have a absolute "no one under 30" rule mostly because of the maturity issue (and because I don't want to deal with the basics) but also so my daughter wouldn't be weirded out by it if she found out.

 

No, I do not buy Woody Allen's argument that we are helpless slaves to passion. But I also don't believe in soulmates or (for me) love at first sight. I especially don't believe there's only one person in the world who's destined to make you happy. Yes, some are more suited than others, but even that can change over time.

[+ José Soplanucas]

As

I disagree pretty strongly about some aspects of the incest taboo. There is a difference in dynamic between lover and family relationships. Also, parent/child incest is fundamentally unbalanced in terms of power, even as adults. (And usually parent/child adult incest happens in situations where the parent has been mostly absent from their child's life.) I don't know of any studies, but I know of adult parent/child incestuous relationships that were only hurtful to the child. I read about one online; another is the subject of Kathryn Harris' memoir The Kiss.

 

And by that reasoning, how do you differentiate between incest that's okay and what Jerry Sandusky did to his adopted son?

 

Parent/child incest that begins before a child is adult, or in which the child is sexually groomed by the parent, is inherently abusive because children are brought up to please and obey their parents. Thus, there is no free consent, just like a slave can't give free consent to sex no matter what the age. There's a name for this: molestation and sexual abuse. That's why the largest US-based anti-sexual violence group is the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN).

 

There's also a reason it exists in porn but not real life. In real life it is almost universally damaging. There are studies and hours of therapy that tell us this. It is not a matter of "well, I didn't find my parents attractive." Not fucking each other is part of the type of authority and guidance a healthy parent-child relationship is made of. That may continue to be the case into adulthood.

 

I'm not too concerned about cousins except if there's an age gap or other indication this is molestation and abuse. Cousins can marry in many states anyway. Sibling incest is dicier because it can be abusive (think Eric Duggar), but a relationship between siblings in their late teens who are close in age isn't likely to be, in which case I don't see the problem unless they're opposite sex and not using birth control. (True whether or not they're related.)

 

Abuse does such horrifying psychological damage that I would rather err on the side of caution.

 

 

As I said, Quote, it depends on the circumstances. Before saying anything else, let's remember we are always talking here about consensual relationships between adults or between teens, never between and adult and a minor.

 

I agree, because of the remaining effects of unbalanced power in between parents and their children once these become adults, vertical incest is more questionable, but as we are talking about adults it is not impossible to imagine a possible healthy relationship. When I say "healthy" I mean "no less healthy" than most non incestuous relationships. Anyways, I am sure the cases of healthy incest are rare in our society if they exist at all, but I still think it is important to consider their legitimacy at least theoretically.

 

Abuse can take place in any relationship, and the power balance may switch to any age, as it depends on various factors, not only maturity. So I do not see any problems on horizontal incest, other than the same problems we can see in non incestuos relationships.

[gezellig4u]

I never had kids, but I am now at an age when many of my friends have sons that are within the age range being discussed (late teens & 20s), which is also the age range of the companions that I look for. I have been openly gay since I was 18, and all of my friends and their kids have known this. I have also always followed a strict look (quickly, and only if I must) but absolutely never touch policy. There have been some tense moments. I was in another city for a meeting on the 21st birthday of the former “kid next door.” He was and is definitely straight (now married, with a kid), but he and I had been close for some time because my profession aligned with his career aspirations. I had offered to take him out for dinner at one of the nicest restaurants in his college city (and one of the nicest restos in the U.S., for that matter) He jumped at the offer, and asked me to pick him up at the off-campus place that he was renting with four other college juniors & seniors. He really wanted me to see his new digs, and he wanted me to meet his roomies. He met me at a nearby subway station, and as we were walking to his place he casually said, “BTW, I already told the guys that you are gay, so you can just relax and be yourself.” Just relax. OK. It had been a very hot day, and when we arrived to his place the other four guys were hanging out… quite comfortably. The attire ranged from t-shirt and shorts to t-shirt and boxers, and one wearing just a pair of boxers. Oh, and every last damn one of them was totally hot and my exact escort ideal. I was amazed at how comfortable and laid back they all were around me, and also convinced that I was going to code at any moment. But, my former neighbor and I had a great dinner that night. Of course, I needed to procure an appropriate companion for dessert. More recently, the 19 year-old son of one of my close friends came out. My friend has strongly encouraged his son to reach out to me as a life mentor. The relationship has always been entirely innocent, though, yes, he is my type. Buddha please forgive me. This has also been challenging. I was visiting him in his dorm room one afternoon, when out of the blue he said,”I’ve been trimming a lot shorter than usual lately, but I’ve been a little worried about this for the past couple of days.” He immediately completely pulled down his jeans and Andrew Christians (of course) and pointed to what was clearly an ingrown pubic hair. Although I really just wanted to scream and bury my face in his crotch, I was entirely professional and gave him my impressions and recommendations. And then I waited for my heart attack, which never happened. Definitely needed an appropriate dessert companion after that as well!

[LivingnLA]

Lol @gezellig4u! Great stories. Yes, I've experienced the ingrown hair situation too, though the "worst" for me so far, has been the kid--with crazy conservative parents--and the day he came to me while I was in my home office and asked about sexually transmitted infections. That was priceless. Turned out, he had a developing case of jock-itch--which I was "forced" to confirm via visual inspection--and later that evening my wife got very very lucky and remarked on my enthusiasm while we cuddled afterwards.

 

I wish I'd been in that apartment with you. Reminded me of my frat days.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I was going to post thatbI was happy I never had children, but I'm learning here I may missed something. All this sounds torturing but exciting and fun.

[+ Truereview]

...My friend has strongly encouraged his son to reach out to me as a life mentor. The relationship has always been entirely innocent, though, yes, he is my type. Buddha please forgive me. This has also been challenging. I was visiting him in his dorm room one afternoon, when out of the blue he said,”I’ve been trimming a lot shorter than usual lately, but I’ve been a little worried about this for the past couple of days.” He immediately completely pulled down his jeans and Andrew Christians (of course) and pointed to what was clearly an ingrown pubic hair. Although I really just wanted to scream and bury my face in his crotch, I was entirely professional and gave him my impressions and recommendations. And then I waited for my heart attack, which never happened. Definitely needed an appropriate dessert companion after that as well!

Sometimes, creating boundaries is the most fulfilling of choices. Congrats on being a good friend to your former neighbor and a good mentor to your protege! Now, let's get you laid with a hot professional.

[LivingnLA]

I was going to post thatbI was happy I never had children, but I'm learning here I may missed something. All this sounds torturing but exciting and fun.

 

I don't judge. Everyone is welcome to live their life as they see fit, so long as they don't hurt other people. There are days when I'm exhausted emotionally, physically, and spiritually. Those days can be rough. But, I will always be grateful for the time the condom broke in college. Yes, I already knew I loved her, but we wouldn't have had my oldest or gotten married so young. Accidents do indeed happen, but so does life. Might as well make the best of it every day.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I don't judge. Everyone is welcome to live their life as they see fit, so long as they don't hurt other people. There are days when I'm exhausted emotionally, physically, and spiritually. Those days can be rough. But, I will always be grateful for the time the condom broke in college. Yes, I already knew I loved her, but we wouldn't have had my oldest or gotten married so young. Accidents do indeed happen, but so does life. Might as well make the best of it every day.

I'm sure they are lucky they have you in their lives.

[LivingnLA]

I'm sure they are lucky they have you in their lives.

 

Thanks! If you heard them on some days, it would be hard to believe that to be true.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Thanks! If you heard them on some days, it would be hard to believe that to be true.

 

Oh, I believe you. I may not be a father, but I am a son and a teacher, so I can relate in many ways.

[gezellig4u]

Lol @gezellig4u! Great stories. Yes, I've experienced the ingrown hair situation too, though the "worst" for me so far, has been the kid--with crazy conservative parents--and the day he came to me while I was in my home office and asked about sexually transmitted infections. That was priceless. Turned out, he had a developing case of jock-itch--which I was "forced" to confirm via visual inspection--and later that evening my wife got very very lucky and remarked on my enthusiasm while we cuddled afterwards.

 

I wish I'd been in that apartment with you. Reminded me of my frat days.

Ultimately, that was a fun (though somewhat "stressful") afternoon. To this day, five years later, I am still amazed at how laid back and natural everyone was. The way everyone should be. In case anyone is interested, the 21 year-old "neighbor kid" (and I say that with love, many years of fond memories, and admiration) just graduated from medical school a few weeks ago. He invited me to hood him at commencement, and that was one of the proudest moments of my life.

[BasketBaller]

It had been a very hot day, and when we arrived to his place the other four guys were hanging out… quite comfortably. The attire ranged from t-shirt and shorts to t-shirt and boxers, and one wearing just a pair of boxers. Oh, and every last damn one of them was totally hot and my exact escort ideal. I was amazed at how comfortable and laid back they all were around me, and also convinced that I was young to code at any moment.

 

Any one of my kids would have been the one in just his boxers, lol.

[gezellig4u]

Sometimes, creating boundaries is the most fulfilling of choices. Congrats on being a good friend to your former neighbor and a good mentor to your protege! Now, let's get you laid with a hot professional.

Haha, thanks! Between my husband and companions (FYI - open marriage), I am cared for quite nicely.