A Question for the Fathers. Oh, the Sons, too!

[gezellig4u]

Any one of my kids would have been the one in just his boxers, lol.

And he was the one that wanted to talk with me the most. He was pre-med, just like the "neighbor kid" I was taking out to dinner.

[+ sniper]

It's creepy if you knew them from infancy. It's not if not. But people in their early 20s are most of the time not quite the same person by the end of their 20s. So while I wouldn't turn someone down in that age group for a little fun, there would be a somewhat higher bar to clear for a relationship. Like if someone was 24 and has lived on their own, had to care for a dying parent, etc. I consider them more of an adult than a 30-year-old who still has their rent paid by mom and dad and doesn't have any sort of direction in life.

 

But if you "only" look for people in their 20s and are considerably older, are you assuming there is a time-limit on that relationship? Are you going to end it when they hit 30(or whatever your cutoff is) and move on? Which is fine I suppose if you do not view your relationship as a lifelong commitment, but most people still do see that as the goal, so I think you'd have to expect they're going to look a little askance at that. And of course you should be upfront with the partner about that. But as long as you are honest with your partner and they are realistic about it go for it.

 

 

And he was the one that wanted to talk with me the most. He was pre-med, just like the "neighbor kid" I was taking out to dinner.

 

I'm pretty sure he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Not saying that he wanted to sleep with you, but he wanted to get your attention and make sure you talked to him. Now that it's years later, I think you should just go ahead and ask the neighbor kid and report back.

[BasketBaller]

My guys are pretty casual about shirtlessness, I might be exaggerating about the boxers. I had to mandate shirts at the dinner table in the summer, but I think they'd put on pants for company. Of course, they mostly grew up in an all-male house, so they'd probably fit right in in a frat house in any case.

[+ quoththeraven]

As

 

 

 

As I said, Quote, it depends on the circumstances. Before saying anything else, let's remember we are always talking here about consensual relationships between adults or between teens, never between and adult and a minor.

 

I agree, because of the remaining effects of unbalanced power in between parents and their children once these become adults, vertical incest is more questionable, but as we are talking about adults it is not impossible to imagine a possible healthy relationship. When I say "healthy" I mean "no less healthy" than most non incestuous relationships. Anyways, I am sure the cases of healthy incest are rare in our society if they exist at all, but I still think it is important to consider their legitimacy at least theoretically.

 

Abuse can take place in any relationship, and the power balance may switch to any age, as it depends on various factors, not only maturity. So I do not see any problems on horizontal incest, other than the same problems we can see in non incestuos relationships.

 

I don't think it's a useful thought experiment because the data is so heavily stacked against it. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Might it not always be a disaster? Maybe. But it's a disaster so many times that I don't think it's worth thinking about except on the level of a fantasy.

 

There are some circumstances that are more ripe for abuse than others. This is one of them. To say that because all relationships can be abused we don't need to worry about the ones that are the most easily abused (much of this is textbook abuse) just doesn't make sense.

 

I'd also like to point out that a relationship between teenage siblings can still amount to child abuse/molestation, which is why I spoke about older teens. Twins, or siblings close in age? It's possible for the relationship to actually be voluntary. But if they live together and love each other as siblings, it can be very very hard to differentiate abuse from consensual relationships.

 

Just because the person doesn't say "no" doesn't make it consensual when we're talking about teens under the age of 18 or about relatives. The person may not feel like they have a choice or their "yes" may be psychologically manipulated.

 

As I said, given the potential harm, I don't have a problem with stacking the deck in favor of a potentially overinclusive prohibition.

[+ WilliamM]

Just because the person doesn't say "no" doesn't make it consensual when we're talking about teens under the age of 18 or about relatives. The person may not feel like they have a choice or their "yes" may be psychologically manipulated.

 

As I said, given the potential harm, I don't have a problem with stacking the deck in favor of a potentially overinclusive prohibition.

 

Totally off-topic. I once dated a young women a second and third time because her sister had a very hot boyfriend. Then I ended the relationship with the young woman in a very selfish way. I mention it here only because it was probably the worst thing I ever did in my life.

[gezellig4u]

I'm pretty sure he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Not saying that he wanted to sleep with you, but he wanted to get your attention and make sure you talked to him. Now that it's years later, I think you should just go ahead and ask the neighbor kid and report back.

Maybe, but I try not to read too much into any situation. Especially situations that map right on to the opening scene of my own internal porn video... Even though it was a hot day outside, they were running the A/C and... oh, never mind

[+ sniper]

Maybe, but I try not to read too much into any situation. Especially situations that map right on to the opening scene of my own internal porn video... Even though it was a hot day outside, they were running the A/C and... oh, never mind

 

I'm going more by the level of ambition/determination exhibited by most doctors/med students I've known. Most will do whatever it takes for an edge. I am not saying he would have slept with you. I'm saying he was making sure you noticed him.

[gezellig4u]

I'm going more by the level of ambition/determination exhibited by most doctors/med students I've known. Most will do whatever it takes for an edge. I am not saying he would have slept with you. I'm saying he was making sure you noticed him.

Yes, I understood where you were coming from. I was just letting my mind wander a little. I loves me some ambition...

[LivingnLA]

level of ambition/determination exhibited by most doctors/med students

 

So much truth in so few words.

[+ Funguy]

I am glad porn script writers do not have this kind of problem.

 

You mean there are scripts??!!

[+ Truereview]

You mean there are scripts??!!

And they are masterpieces...

http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/porn-script.jpg

[WolfRamNHard]

When I was 16, I used to know this kid whose boyfriend broke up with him and started dating his dad. Soon afterwards, the boyfriend moved in with them (into the dad's bedroom) while my poor friend had to sleep on the couch. Later, he got kicked out of the house by his dad at the urging of the boyfriend. Needless to say, they were all really messed up.

[BabyBoomer]

When I was 16, I used to know this kid whose boyfriend broke up with him and started dating his dad. Soon afterwards, the boyfriend moved in with them (into the dad's bedroom) while my poor friend had to sleep on the couch. Later, he got kicked out of the house by his dad at the urging of the boyfriend. Needless to say, they were all really messed up.

 

Sounds like the plot of an Icon Male flick.

 

~ Boomer ~

[WolfRamNHard]

I was visiting him in his dorm room one afternoon, when out of the blue he said,”I’ve been trimming a lot shorter than usual lately, but I’ve been a little worried about this for the past couple of days.” He immediately completely pulled down his jeans and Andrew Christians (of course) and pointed to what was clearly an ingrown pubic hair. Although I really just wanted to scream and bury my face in his crotch, I was entirely professional and gave him my impressions and recommendations. And then I waited for my heart attack, which never happened. Definitely needed an appropriate dessert companion after that as well!

 

For this reason alone, I occasionally find myself wishing that I'd gone into primary care or urology. But then I think about all the other stuff that they have to deal with, and I'm quickly disabused of the thought. During residency I knew this gay colorectal surgery fellow who told me it was lots of hemorrhoids and butt pus (and cancers of course), not so much attractive guys with cute rear ends.

[gezellig4u]

For this reason alone, I occasionally find myself wishing that I'd gone into primary care or urology. But then I think about all the other stuff that they have to deal with, and I'm quickly disabused of the thought. During residency I knew this gay colorectal surgery fellow who told me it was lots of hemorrhoids and butt pus (and cancers of course), not so much attractive guys with cute rear ends.

Yeah, at the end of the day, if I have to see one more... just kidding, I actually went neuro. The curbside consult with my friend's son was an off-the-clock freebie.

[+ sniper]

When I was 16, I used to know this kid whose boyfriend broke up with him and started dating his dad. Soon afterwards, the boyfriend moved in with them (into the dad's bedroom) while my poor friend had to sleep on the couch. Later, he got kicked out of the house by his dad at the urging of the boyfriend. Needless to say, they were all really messed up.

 

Um, was the friend sleeping in dad's bed BEFORE that? I would assume he'd been on the couch prior.

[WolfRamNHard]

Um, was the friend sleeping in dad's bed BEFORE that? I would assume he'd been on the couch prior.

Good question ... I'd never been to their place, I remember him complaining about having to sleep on the couch. But it wouldn't have surprised me if there had been some weird incest thing or sexual abuse thing going on between him and his dad.

[+ quoththeraven]

Sounds like the plot of an Icon Male flick.

 

~ Boomer ~

 

Another example of a situation that works better in porn than real life.

[WolfRamNHard]

Yeah, at the end of the day, if I have to see one more... just kidding, I actually went neuro. The curbside consult with my friend's son was an off-the-clock freebie.

 

I should have gone into finance and become a hedge fund manager or something. Not only would I be retired by now, but I'd be able to have a whole harem of cute guys at my beck and call

[WolfRamNHard]

gezellig4u - I read that you've been openly gay since 18. It's great to meet you! It would be fun sometime to swap anecdotes and compare notes on being gay and out during med school and residency. I believe you and I are a rare breed in this regard. Cheers!

 

[oscarkin]

I'm going more by the level of ambition/determination exhibited by most doctors/med students I've known. Most will do whatever it takes for an edge. I am not saying he would have slept with you. I'm saying he was making sure you noticed him.

Your remark brought back some interesting memories. Years ago, when I was a grad student teaching English Composition at a large Midwestern university, some of the pre-med students were the potential Achilles heel in my ongoing efforts to maintain appropriate student/ faculty boundaries. They certainly weren’t the only temptations on campus but many of them were of a type that I found hopelessly attractive at the time: handsome, clean-cut and athletic young men brimming with self-confidence. As a group, they tended to be very good in the sciences but generally they were not as good at English Comp. They often expressed their displeasure at being required to take a course that was not directly relevant to their career goals. In spite of my attraction, I was generally able to maintain my academic focus throughout the winter months, but in those first warm spring days when the sun came out and the clothes came off things turned abruptly. I almost needed blinders to be able to walk across the campus. The spring weather also tended to coincide with the scheduling of individual conferences, one-on-one meetings with the students to discuss how their writing skills might be improved. The students would arrive for the conferences in all manner of casual dress, but the one I remember mostly clearly was a beautiful young man whose goal was to become a surgeon. He had been something of a tennis star in high school and had the body to show for it. He arrived for the conference dressed in only a tank-top, the briefest of gym shorts and flip-flops. He sat down in the chair beside my desk and leaned forward attentively as I began to review his latest C paper but before long he interrupted me, explaining that he was concerned about the effects that a less than superlative grade in the course might have on his QPA. Then he looked me straight in the eye and asked me what he might do to assure a better outcome. If he had said “I’ll do anything for an A in this course,” his intentions could not have been more clear. He sat back in his chair and from what I could see over the corner of the desk it was obvious that he meant business. I paused for a moment. I looked back at his paper and tried to gather my thoughts. But then I couldn’t help myself and I glanced over the edge of the desk again. He smiled – a beautiful smile, of course -- and I saw that he was thoroughly enjoying the moment. The conference ended a few minutes later without anything further happening. I provided him with a short list of things that he might work on to improve his writing and in fact he did manage to get a low B as his final grade in the course. I suspected that he might be getting additional help elsewhere, but I never pursued the suspicion. I think I didn’t really want to know.

[gezellig4u]

Your remark brought back some interesting memories. Years ago, when I was a grad student teaching English Composition at a large Midwestern university, some of the pre-med students were the potential Achilles heel in my ongoing efforts to maintain appropriate student/ faculty boundaries. They certainly weren’t the only temptations on campus but many of them were of a type that I found hopelessly attractive at the time: handsome, clean-cut and athletic young men brimming with self-confidence. As a group, they tended to be very good in the sciences but generally they were not as good at English Comp. They often expressed their displeasure at being required to take a course that was not directly relevant to their career goals. In spite of my attraction, I was generally able to maintain my academic focus throughout the winter months, but in those first warm spring days when the sun came out and the clothes came off things turned abruptly. I almost needed blinders to be able to walk across the campus. The spring weather also tended to coincide with the scheduling of individual conferences, one-on-one meetings with the students to discuss how their writing skills might be improved. The students would arrive for the conferences in all manner of casual dress, but the one I remember mostly clearly was a beautiful young man whose goal was to become a surgeon. He had been something of a tennis star in high school and had the body to show for it. He arrived for the conference dressed in only a tank-top, the briefest of gym shorts and flip-flops. He sat down in the chair beside my desk and leaned forward attentively as I began to review his latest C paper but before long he interrupted me, explaining that he was concerned about the effects that a less than superlative grade in the course might have on his QPA. Then he looked me straight in the eye and asked me what he might do to assure a better outcome. If he had said “I’ll do anything for an A in this course,” his intentions could not have been more clear. He sat back in his chair and from what I could see over the corner of the desk it was obvious that he meant business. I paused for a moment. I looked back at his paper and tried to gather my thoughts. But then I couldn’t help myself and I glanced over the edge of the desk again. He smiled – a beautiful smile, of course -- and I saw that he was thoroughly enjoying the moment. The conference ended a few minutes later without anything further happening. I provided him with a short list of things that he might work on to improve his writing and in fact he did manage to get a low B as his final grade in the course. I suspected that he might be getting additional help elsewhere, but I never pursued the suspicion. I think I didn’t really want to know.

Boys that aspire to be surgeons are often... cocky.

[oscarkin]

Boys that aspire to be surgeons are often... cocky.

That was indeed the case.

[+ sniper]

So was he just tenting the shorts or was it actually sticking out the pants leg and you saw the whole thing? This is not the forum to be coy...

[oscarkin]

So was he just tenting the shorts or was it actually sticking out the pants leg and you saw the whole thing? This is not the forum to be coy...

It was actually a bit of both. Let's just say that the overall length of the object in question exceeded the length of the inseam on the gym shorts by a statistically significant margin. A tent pole topping out? I know--that's still coy. But it's better if a little bit is left to the imagination.