I NEED TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET! ANYONE ELSE?

[MikeyGMin]

Mercy Celeste and Kade Boehme are two of the better female writers. For my taste.

[gallahadesquire]

A long time ago, when I was in graduate school, as a practicum, I did much of the cataloging of a major gift to the Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library. The gift was the Barbara Grier collection. Barbara Grier was a co-founder of Naiad Press, a major publisher of Lesbian literature. This collection she donated comprised thousands and thousand of different items. Included in it were just about every piece of gay fiction that had been published up to that time - yes, every single one of the Gordon Merrick novels, etc. etc. Most of it was pathetic, it was so bad. I would sit there paging through these novels, wondering, "Who writes this stuff?"

 

To me, about the only pieces of gay fiction that were worth the paper they were printed on were "Faggots" and "Dancer from the Dance."

 

Did you use Library of Congress or [shudder] the Dewy Decimal system?

Do you remember about where the call numbers were?

 

I'm really only familiar with "Q" and "M". I'd love to see what MIT has for gay literature

[Rudynate]

Did you use Library of Congress or [shudder] the Dewy Decimal system?

Do you remember about where the call numbers were?

 

I'm really only familiar with "Q" and "M". I'd love to see what MIT has for gay literature

 

I don't remember. I'm sure it would have been Dewey. Public libraries rarely use LOC.

[ny2222]

1. If it's well-written and reasonably accurate as to physiology, why does it matter? (I acknowledge that there are sometimes reasons to quibble with some of the psychology and ways in which romance is thought of, but it's also true that not all men are unsentimental and unromantic, just as not all women are sentimental and love traditional romance.)

2. The female readership may be predominantly straight, although there are no good or definitive studies, but a not insignificant number of the most well-known, prolific authors identify as queer (bisexual, lesbian, trans or genderqueer, if the specifics matter). Ones I can think of off the top of my head:

 

I haven't read all these authors, and I don't feel the same about all the ones they've read, but Mitchell, Beecroft and Fox are among the best there are. I enjoy Myles' stories, just not as much as the others; Beecroft writes mostly historical, while I prefer contemporary, and leans toward the more descriptive/flowery end of the spectrum of writing style.

 

CS Pacat is a woman. So is Josh Lanyon.

 

But an even more important point is this: there is no longer an impenetrable barrier between gay and straight love stories. Increasingly, romance novelists are writing so-called "mixed" series: ones where some of the couples are m/f and some are m/m or f/f. Where one character is bisexual and doesn't feel that changes because of the gender of the person they're with. They are writing trans characters in relationships with cis characters, both same and oppsite sex. They are writing asexual characters. They're writing genderqueer characters.

 

One New York Times and USA Today bestselling writer is currently working on a manuscript about a character who heads a tech firm remarkably similar to Apple who is as irascible as Steve Jobs and as gay as Tim Cook but who has a son and is closeted. She's already written a secondary f/f romance in one of her historical novels set in Victorian England. She has tweeted her support of gay rights, an analysis of the opinions in the Obergefell case (as a former clerk to Justice Kennedy, she has insight into this most of us don't have), and told people that if her stance on social issues bothers them, they would not like her books.

 

This expansion is driven by female and trans male writers, editors and publishers, not by cis men. I think it constitutes social progress. Maybe you don't.

 

Raven...Wow...a lot of neat stuff there. You smart!!!

I am just going to throw this out and PLEASE don't hurt me lol...it is not a judgment thing just an observation.

I do agree with a lot of what you are saying. I just find it hard sometimes to relate to some of the male/male things that a women writes. (please don't hit me lol). I don't mean that in a negative way. I think mostly this applies to the not well written at all (regardless of the sex) authors and there are a lot of them in this.

I know that CS Pacat is a women and I love here two books. To be honest (again this is going to get me in trouble) I don't think a man could have written that story that way. On the other hand The Cranberry Hush was written by a man and to be honest I don't think a women could have written the story like that. I am just saying there are differences in how each views life....and I think that is a good thing??? I like the differences.

I know I said I prefer male writers and I am formally going to take that back.

When it is well written, I like them both and how they view the M/M relationship

Pretty diplomatic..yes???

 

NY

[MikeyGMin]

We're both likely to get slapped by QTR here. Of course there are exceptions on both sides, but in general, the difference I notice is in the sex scenes. Male authors recognize that there really isn't a lot going on in a man's head during sex. Even when it's with someone you've been craving for a long time as is often the case in these romance novels. Guys are thinking about how it feels, tastes, smells etc. We aren't having any great epiphanies about having found the love of our lives or anything else. If it comes at all, it usually comes after we cum.

 

I know that is a HUGE generalization, but I have read a LOT of these books. (What a claim to fame. Semi-expert on M/M romance novels. My mother would be so proud!)

[+ quoththeraven]

We're both likely to get slapped by QTR here. Of course there are exceptions on both sides, but in general, the difference I notice is in the sex scenes. Male authors recognize that there really isn't a lot going on in a man's head during sex. Even when it's with someone you've been craving for a long time as is often the case in these romance novels. Guys are thinking about how it feels, tastes, smells etc. We aren't having any great epiphanies about having found the love of our lives or anything else. If it comes at all, it usually comes after we cum.

 

I know that is a HUGE generalization, but I have read a LOT of these books. (What a claim to fame. Semi-expert on M/M romance novels. My mother would be so proud!)

 

But many of the m/m novels written by women focus on how sex feels, smells, tastes as well. The emotions during such scenes aren't about love but lust or maybe protectiveness or how well the top is being served if the characters are into kink. Not that there aren't some books by women that go pretty far in the sentimental direction - there are - but a lot of male-authored books seem episodic and meandering.

 

To the extent the gender of the author is known, I find sex scenes written by men, whether straight or gay, boring, perfunctory and very much insert tab A into tab B. If you're going to write them like that, why bother? From what you're saying, that may be authentic, but it's not exactly scintillating reading. And really? Little goes on in the minds of both participants during a blow job, hand job, frot, or anal sex? Wow.

 

I've read a lot of them too and still find a wider variety of looks, personalities, body types and careers in m/m romance compared to m/f, but lately I've read more m/f because there's more of it, it's less expensive, and the review site I got m/m recommendations from is defunct.

 

I also forgot to mention Alexis Hall. Despite the name, Hall is a dude, though he identifies as queer, not gay. I've read his columns and blog and a short story of his but none of his books. I started reading For Real but stopped because I realized it required more sustained concentration than I could muster at the time.

[+ quoththeraven]

One final rec, although I haven't read his books yet (I have at least one on my Kindle): David Levithan, young adult editor and writer, who co-wrote Will Grayson, Will Grayson with megaauthor John Green and wrote Boy Meets Boy, Every Day, and Two Boys Kissing, among others. If you don't mind reading YA, they're reputedly well-written books that are probably long on plot and character and absent explicit sex.

[edjames]

There was that series of gay detective novels back in the late 1990's/early 2000's. I think the protagonist was an LAPD detective, maybe an LA Sheriff's detective. They weren't too bad. Can't get into the gay romance. I tend to read mostly non-fiction, anyway.

 

I think you might be referring to Joseph Hansen's, David Brandstetter gay detective novels set in LA. Hansen began writing the series in 1970 and the books span the course of 21 years.

 

Also the Nathan Alydyne series of gay detective novels in the early '80's. Vermillion, Cobalt, Slate and Canary were all fun reads back in the day. As I used to refer to them, perfect airplane reading or vacation books.

 

Today, author Greg Herren published his series of gay detective Chanse Macleod mysteries set in New Orleans.

 

Happy reading!

[+ quoththeraven]

I think you might be referring to Joseph Hansen's, David Brandstetter gay detective novels set in LA. Hansen began writing the series in 1970 and the books span the course of 21 years.

 

Except Dave Brandstetter never worked for law enforcement. He was an investigator for a life insurance company. The series fits the setting and part of the timeline, though. While gay-themed, they are primarily mysteries with near litfic-level writing and recurring characters, including Brandstetter's love interests, but his sex/love life was neither wild nor the point of the books. Donald Strachey of Richard Stevenson's similar series (Strachey was a PI) written over about the same stretch of time was much more of a slut, if I can put it that way.

[N13]

Really surprised no one has mentioned Gore Vidal's "The City and the Pillar"; all of John Rechy's books - particularly "City of Night"; James Baldwin's books; and many of Mary Renault's Greek history novels. These were all pioneers in bringing gay themed literature to the mainstream. Although the men all presented a very dark picture of being gay, their works were indicative of the times. "The City and the Pillar" was actually re-published after many years with a more up beat ending.

[+ quoththeraven]

Really surprised no one has mentioned Gore Vidal's "The City and the Pillar"; all of John Rechy's books - particularly "City of Night"; James Baldwin's books; and many of Mary Renault's Greek history novels. These were all pioneers in bringing gay themed literature to the mainstream. Although the men all presented a very dark picture of being gay, their works were indicative of the times. "The City and the Pillar" was actually re-published after many years with a more up beat ending.

 

I mentioned Renault in post #25, which is so long I don't feel like attempting the massive edit on my tablet that would be required to quote only the paragraph about Renault.

[N13]

I mentioned Renault in post #25, which is so long I don't feel like attempting the massive edit on my tablet that would be required to quote only the paragraph about Renault.

 

Sorry I missed that. Going back to read it.

[amused1]

A long time ago, when I was in graduate school, as a practicum, I did much of the cataloging of a major gift to the Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library. The gift was the Barbara Grier collection. Barbara Grier was a co-founder of Naiad Press, a major publisher of Lesbian literature. This collection she donated comprised thousands and thousand of different items. Included in it were just about every piece of gay fiction that had been published up to that time - yes, every single one of the Gordon Merrick novels, etc. etc. Most of it was pathetic, it was so bad. I would sit there paging through these novels, wondering, "Who writes this stuff?"

 

To me, about the only pieces of gay fiction that were worth the paper they were printed on were "Faggots" and "Dancer from the Dance."

Barbara was quite a character and could be tough as nails. I remember placing orders with her on the phone way back in the day when I worked for a small regional book chain. During that period I read pretty much every gay novel we carried, the good the bad and the ugly. That helped warm her up to me as she would quiz me on what I'd read and suggest what I should read. I read well over 300 gay works during that 2 year period. So many of the books posters are mentioning are distant, pleasant reminders of days gone by.

[Rudynate]

Barbara was quite a character and could be tough as nails. I remember placing orders with her on the phone way back in the day when I worked for a small regional book chain. During that period I read pretty much every gay novel we carried, the good the bad and the ugly. That helped warm her up to me as she would quiz me on what I'd read and suggest what I should read. I read well over 300 gay works during that 2 year period. So many of the books posters are mentioning are distant, pleasant reminders of days gone by.

 

 

Thanks so much for posting. I spent months working on that collection and always wondered about her. Never had the opportunity to meet her. The gay fiction aside, there were some fascinating documents. One of the most interesting that comes to mind is a study of the incidence of male-male sex in CCC camps during the Depression.

[amused1]

Thanks so much for posting. I spent months working on that collection and always wondered about her. Never had the opportunity to meet her. The gay fiction aside, there were some fascinating documents. One of the most interesting that comes to mind is a study of the incidence of male-male sex in CCC camps during the Depression.

She was very much a "wommin". When I was assigned her account everyone snickered assuming she'd chew me up. "A man placing orders with her? She'll hate you." Our initial contacts were rather, um, strained shall we say? But she grew to accept my genuine interest and enthusiasm for bringing the gay/lesbian canon to the attention of the reading audience. A lesbian took over the account from me and said that Barbara would ask about me. I considered that high praise indeed.

[Rudynate]

She was very much a "wommin". When I was assigned her account everyone snickered assuming she'd chew me up. "A man placing orders with her? She'll hate you." Our initial contacts were rather, um, strained shall we say? But she grew to accept my genuine interest and enthusiasm for bringing the gay/lesbian canon to the attention of the reading audience. A lesbian took over the account from me and said that Barbara would ask about me. I considered that high praise indeed.

 

That kind of lesbian is pretty rare anymore. The AIDS crisis pretty much obliterated that traditional animosity between gay men and lesbians. The men needed help and the women laid their prejudices aside and stepped up.

[amused1]

I loved Dancing on Tisha B'av by Lev Raphael. Then I met him and never enjoyed any of his other works. Sometimes it's best not to meet our heroes.

[samhexum]

It’s always difficult coming out of the closet

 

A retired British police officer died of hypothermia after becoming trapped naked inside a closet, where she tried to claw her way out for several days while on a vacation, according to reports.

 

Elizabeth Mary Isherwood, 60, had to use the bathroom during the night while staying by herself at the Plas Talgarth vacation complex near Machynlleth in Wales in September, the Times of London reported.

 

But a possible wrong turn led the part-time care worker from Wolverhampton to enter the pitch-black laundry closet, where she became trapped when part of the doorknob fell off, according to the Telegraph.

 

At first, the desperate woman yelled for help, but when no one responded, she took more drastic action.

 

“Being unable to turn the lock and realizing she was trapped and there was no light, at some stage she first of all pulled the shelves off,” coroner Dewi Pritchard Jones told an inquest, the UK’s Metro reported.

 

“Whether she used them to try and get out, I can’t say. What she did do was she pulled the copper piping and a piece was broken off. This was used to try initially to open the door because there were marks on the door but also used to try and break a hole through the wall of the airing cupboard,” he said.

 

Sherwood managed to make a hole in the wall and was inches from freedom.

 

“Unfortunately, on the other side of the wall was a picture,” Pritchard-Jones said.

 

Meanwhile, the burst plumbing sprayed cold water into the confined space, where she became drenched and eventually succumbed to hypothermia, he said.

 

Isherwood had co-owned the timeshare at Plas Talgarth with her ex-husband, Clive Isherwood, but they sold it after the couple separated recently when she came out as gay.

 

“The staff at the complex had given Mary some vouchers to use for a final stay. She would’ve usually gone with friends but nobody could make it, so she went alone,” Clive said.

 

He said fellow guests heard noises from his ex-wife’s room but dismissed them as coming from maintenance work.

 

“They’d said that the banging stopped at around 5 p.m. on Sunday night and they thought nothing more of it,” he said. “Her body wasn’t found until the day she was due to check out, so this happened right at the start of her trip.”

 

Her son, Craig, 32, said the family was “devastated.”

 

“If she’d carried on banging, she probably could’ve escaped. She must have been exhausted, which is why she stopped banging,” he said, according to the Times.

 

“Mum was so sporty, fit, healthy and loved playing golf. If anyone could have got out of that cupboard, it would have been Mum,” he added.

 

The family is considering legal action against the resort.

 

A spokesman said: “Our sincerest condolences go out to the family of Ms. Isherwood. We are grateful for the skillful way the police have handled the investigation.”

 

Isherwood left the West Midlands police force in 1991 after coming out as gay, the Telegraph reported.

 

After moving to London, where she joined the Post Office Investigation Service, she met her partner, Rosie, according to the paper.

Edited June 21, 2018 by samhexum

[+ purplekow]

This thread has inspired me to try and write a gay based novel seeing as writing ability does not seem to be a premium requirement. In addition, I know I can write a hot gay sex scene better than a woman, just need to tap into my personal collection of favorite close encounters of the 69 kind. Anyone want to preorder?

[rvwnsd]

This thread has inspired me to try and write a gay based novel seeing as writing ability does not seem to be a premium requirement. In addition, I know I can write a hot gay sex scene better than a woman, just need to tap into my personal collection of favorite close encounters of the 69 kind. Anyone want to preorder?

You will have a hard time topping this: