Tipping

[bigvalboy]

Posters give a lot of different reasons for tipping a professional that charges $200+ per hour. I suppose some make sense, but I tend to believe many of the findings in this article, "Tips: Check Your Insecurity at the Door", may be more accurate (possibly applicable to why some posters don’t negotiate, as well).

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/03/dining/tips-check-your-insecurity-at-the-door.html

 

Per the article...

"And in any case, the message may say more about the sender than the receiver. A tip, social scientists seem to be discovering, has less to do with the diner's opinion of the service than it has with his opinion of himself, his need for approval or his desire to please the waiter".

[Rudynate]

 

I don't see any reason to base a tip on how much an escort earns in a year. I would base it on how good the experience was. I wouldn't reduce my tip in a busy restauant on the basis that the wait staff would be receiving plenty of other tips. (Or that they were being paid a local minimum wage of $15/hr rather than the $2 they receive in some places.

 

Yep - it's all about value.

 

Also, it's certainly true that a $300-an-hour escort doesn't "need" a tip, and a professional escort is going to provide the best service he can, whether he gets tipped or not, but a little grease creates a lot of goodwill. Years ago, I lived in Rochester NY and worked downtown. Parking in downtown Rochester was atrocious. There a was a lot right across the street from where I worked, but it filled up fast in the morning. Even though I was paying for parking, I would give the guy who ran the lot a $10.00 tip every month or so. At Christmas, I tucked his ten bucks inside of a Christmas card. He wouldn't give my parking spot away to ANYONE. He wouldn't even give it away to MY boss, who was a flaming asshole who wore hand-tailored suits and drove a Mercedes E-class. My boss finally asked me what I did to deserve that kind of treatment, and I thought, "Oh my gosh, what a moron," and I said, "I grease him!"

[coriolis888]

Of course not. The point I was making is that I tip based on the extent to which they meet or exceed my expectations, not what their hourly pay rate is. Obviously both hourly rates and terms of employment are different for escorts and wait staff.

 

 

In post # 25, above, Miamilooker furnished a link to an article that shows results of a study about - tipping.

 

Below is quoted one small portion of the article because the conclusion reached in this part of the study, matches my opinion:

 

"But tipping is not only, or even primarily, an economic transaction. It is also a social event, and, as researchers have discovered, a very complex one, at times bordering on the perverse."

Of course, reasonable people can and do disagree on anything. Having personal knowledge of and experience with a well reviewed escort who "lives high on the hog" from his escort earnings, I find it ludicrous to tip him given his $300.00 hourly fee.

 

When I am in appropriate situations, I tip according to custom.

 

By the way, tomorrow I will be seeing my dentist. He does a superb job and he has a wonderful personality. He charges me his normal high fee. I have no plans to "tip" him after the work is finished.

 

Two weeks ago, my vet implanted an identification tag in my dog for $200.00. It took the vet only a few minutes to do the job. I didn't tip him either.

[Rudynate]

 

By the way, tomorrow I will be seeing my dentist. He does a superb job and he has a wonderful personality. He charges me his normal high fee. I have no plans to "tip" him after the work is finished.

 

Well then, since your dentist doesn't expect to be tipped, the next time you need a drilling you'd be better off going to him than to an escort.

[coriolis888]

Well then, since your dentist doesn't expect to be tipped, the next time you need a drilling you'd be better off going to him than to an escort.

 

 

I presume your comment means that you are in favor of "tips" to escorts. Good for you.

 

:)I did say that reasonable people can and do disagree.

[Rudynate]

 

:)I did say that reasonable people can and do disagree.

 

 

Completely agree. It's not OK to have a laugh about it?

[MiamiLooker]

...a professional escort is going to provide the best service he can, whether he gets tipped or not...

 

That’s an interesting statement. I think a lot of clients, based on their own hiring experiences, would disagree with this. I don’t believe we’d even get a consensus as to the definition of “professional” as it pertains to escorting.

[AdamSmith]

:)I did say that reasonable people can and do disagree.

 

Reasonable people?

 

http://www.reachmissiontrips.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Where-Are-You-Productive.jpg

 

[Rudynate]

That’s an interesting statement. I think a lot of clients, based on their own hiring experiences, would disagree with this. I don’t believe we’d even get a consensus as to the definition of “professional” as it pertains to escorting.

 

I don't agree, unless you overthink it. It's true that there are no best practices or quality standards for escorts or escort code of ethics, etc. etc. but any escort who is a reasonably nice person and has a work ethic is going strive to provide value. And sure, some do it better than others.

[Rudynate]

Reasonable people?

 

http://www.reachmissiontrips.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Where-Are-You-Productive.jpg

 

 

Silly, treatises on torts and contract law are full of description of the "reasonable person." In my line of work, the analog of the "reasonable person" is "the person having an ordinary level of skill in the art."

[AdamSmith]

Silly, treatises on torts and contract law are full of description of the "reasonable person." In my line of work, the analog of the "reasonable person" is "the person having an ordinary level of skill in the art."

 

The unspoken (unwritten) phrase was: here?

[sincitymix]

I believe there's paper money covered by the post-it, but it may just be an IOU

 

looks like a candy wrapper paper

[Juan Vancouver]

I wonder if there is any correlation between the recurring subjects of fee negotiation and tipping. Do clients who negotiate the rate tip more generously than most, or do their thrifty instincts apply to tipping as well?

 

As with everything, it depends. Some of the ones who try to negotiate will shortchange you, will deliberately try to stay over an hour for free, and will be the most demanding, entitled and rude customers out there. They will find the fray on the sheet, the spot on the mirror, the flaw with the music. It's this kind of client who without any shadow of irony in their voice announce that they expect you to cum at least three times during an hour session. It's not fun. You can imagine.

 

Some of the ones who attempted to negotiate will be delighted, fun, kind, grateful, aware of the time and will tip generously.

 

It makes me think that some negotiate because they are cheap and live in the culture of "more bang for your buck" while some negotiate because they enjoy the sport. The trick as an escort is to learn to differentiate both types on the phone and avoid one, while happily seeing the other.

 

The escort drives a Mercedes (no car payments) and lives in a very nice expensive and nicely furnished condominium.

 

Should I tip him?

 

It strikes me as unfair to punish a guy for being successful. At least successful by your standards. Ostensibly he does really well because he is really good at what he does. The whole point of tipping is letting the service provider that he did really well and you thoroughly enjoyed his work. Regardless of the degree of success achieved by anyone, if the service they provide is outstanding I will every time try to acknowledge it and reward as best as I can.

 

Also... do you really think 60.000 is a lot of money? Enough so that you think he's set for life and he doesn't need your tip nor your wages? Being an escort, especially an expensive one, is a very, very costly business. You have to invest a lot of money in clothes, fitness, accessories, accommodations, etc. Only an escort who invests wisely on his image is able to pull off expensive rates. And for an escort who has to present such a front sixty thousand dollars is really very little money.

 

If you normally tip a regular joe hustler when he delivers, tip your high scale ho. You know absolutely nothing about his life.

[+ José Soplanucas]

As with everything, it depends. Some of the ones who try to negotiate will shortch

 

Also... do you really think 60.000 is a lot of money? Enough so that you think he's set for life and he doesn't need your tip nor your wages? Being an escort, especially an expensive one, is a very, very costly business. You have to invest a lot of money in clothes, fitness, accessories, accommodations, etc. Only an escort who invests wisely on his image is able to pull off expensive rates. And for an escort who has to present such a front sixty thousand dollars is really very little money.

 

If you normally tip a regular joe hustler when he delivers, tip your high scale ho. You know absolutely nothing about his life.

 

I think 60,000 was the figure of declared income, the money paid by clients through CC and PayPal. I may be wrong, but that is probably a small portion out of an escort income.

[+ poolboy48220]

Per the article...

"And in any case, the message may say more about the sender than the receiver. A tip, social scientists seem to be discovering, has less to do with the diner's opinion of the service than it has with his opinion of himself, his need for approval or his desire to please the waiter".

And in my case, a desire for good service on subsequent visits. Places I frequent a lot, I tip well, always. The bartenders in return always seem to notice me when I need a new drink.

[bigvalboy]

And in my case, a desire for good service on subsequent visits. Places I frequent a lot, I tip well, always. The bartenders in return always seem to notice me when I need a new drink.

 

Absolutely....

[coriolis888]

 

 

It strikes me as unfair to punish a guy for being successful. At least successful by your standards. Ostensibly he does really well because he is really good at what he does. The whole point of tipping is letting the service provider that he did really well and you thoroughly enjoyed his work. Regardless of the degree of success achieved by anyone, if the service they provide is outstanding I will every time try to acknowledge it and reward as best as I can.

 

Also... do you really think 60.000 is a lot of money? Enough so that you think he's set for life and he doesn't need your tip nor your wages? Being an escort, especially an expensive one, is a very, very costly business. You have to invest a lot of money in clothes, fitness, accessories, accommodations, etc. Only an escort who invests wisely on his image is able to pull off expensive rates. And for an escort who has to present such a front sixty thousand dollars is really very little money.

 

If you normally tip a regular joe hustler when he delivers, tip your high scale ho. You know absolutely nothing about his life.

 

 

Juan, I have been a lurker here a long time and have been impressed by most of the things you wrote. I always thought you made a lot of sense and I looked forward to reading your response in this post. Boy, was I disappointed after I read it. You totally missed the mark. You paid little attention to what I wrote and you fabricated your own scenario of the facts that do not match the material provided in this thread, including the link I provided.

 

First, I did not "punish a guy" (the escort) for his being successful. If you read the link I provided, you will see that the IRS is punishing him for not reporting income that he made from his escort business. What triggered the IRS was a form sent to him and to the IRS by Paypal in the amount of approximately $60,000.00. That $60,000.00 is not the only money the escort made from escorting nor is it the only other money he made during the year flagged by the IRS.

 

The IRS also learned that the escort paid cash for his Mercedes, paid cash for his condo, paid cash for expensive items that he ran through credit cards (then paid the credit cards bills with cash). At the same time, the escort reported only about $20,000.00 as his total income for the year he got caught. Now IRS is looking at other years when the escort reported little income. On top of all this, the escort had to pay a criminal tax lawyer thousands of dollars so far and the trouble has only just begun.

 

The other comment in your post about whether I think $60,000.00 is a lot of money - blah - blah - is merely your posting first but not reading the link I provided and the other posts. If you go back and read the link and my other posts, you will see that I was sympathetic to the bad choice my escort friend made by not reporting his income to the IRS. In spite of my knowing this escort quite some time, and paying his asking fee, I never tipped him other than an occasional present or gift.

 

I look forward to again seeing future posts from you that are commensurate of your posts of the past.

[coriolis888]

 

And in my case, a desire for good service on subsequent visits. Places I frequent a lot, I tip well, always. The bartenders in return always seem to notice me when I need a new drink.

 

 

I agree with you. Tipping usually provides good service on subsequent visits. I always "tip" in many venues where the person providing the service is not well paid (at restaurants, bars, porters etc). You mentioned a bartender, which I also feel should be "tipped". However, as was pointed out by another poster earlier in this thread, waiters (and bartenders) do not make $300.00 an hour, as do many escorts.

 

Everything is relative.

[down_to_business]

Likewise, income of clients is relative.

 

For the majority of us working stiffs, a $300 hourly fee may represent an entire weeks worth of our take home pay. For someone like BenjiBoyJimBo a $300 hourly fee might only represent a half hours worth of his take home pay. To drop another $100 tip on top of that might only be another 5-10 minutes of work for him.

 

In all seriousness, if you get pleasure from tipping a highly paid professional, then by all means do so. I do not tip most professionals I have ongoing relationships with (doctors, dentists, lawyers, exterminators etc.) even though these continuing relationships mean a whole lot to me (and some more so than escort relationships). What I do, is recommend their services to friends and colleagues when appropriate and continue to loyally utilize their services. I do tip some ongoing professional relationships (i.e. my lawnguy) when he goes above and beyond and I also recommend his services to friends and neighbors who ask.

 

In general I do not tip escorts for simply meeting expectations. I do tip escorts that go above and beyond (i.e. for driving a long distance to see me without charging me additional for it) or have bought them a gift (a brand new tablet) for making a 3 week hire go off without one hiccup in addition to their asked fee of course.

[coriolis888]

Likewise, income of clients is relative.

 

For the majority of us working stiffs, a $300 hourly fee may represent an entire weeks worth of our take home pay. For someone like BenjiBoyJimBo a $300 hourly fee might only represent a half hours worth of his take home pay. To drop another $100 tip on top of that might only be another 5-10 minutes of work for him.

 

In all seriousness, if you get pleasure from tipping a highly paid professional, then by all means do so. I do not tip most professionals I have ongoing relationships with (doctors, dentists, lawyers, exterminators etc.) even though these continuing relationships mean a whole lot to me (and some more so than escort relationships). What I do, is recommend their services to friends and colleagues when appropriate and continue to loyally utilize their services. I do tip some ongoing professional relationships (i.e. my lawnguy) when he goes above and beyond and I also recommend his services to friends and neighbors who ask.

 

In general I do not tip escorts for simply meeting expectations. I do tip escorts that go above and beyond (i.e. for driving a long distance to see me without charging me additional for it) or have bought them a gift (a brand new tablet) for making a 3 week hire go off without one hiccup in addition to their asked fee of course.

 

 

I have been saying essentially the same thing all along, only in different words.

 

Accolades to you, Mr. Voice of Reason -(down-to-business)

[mike carey]

You paid little attention to what I wrote and you fabricated your own scenario of the facts that do not match the material provided in this thread, including the link I provided.

I think you are being too harsh on Juan. I agree that what he wrote does not address the specifics of the example you cited but I don't think that was what he was trying to do (and nor was I in my comments). As I read it he, like some other posters, used your example as the basis for discussing the broader issue of whether to tip a high fee, and apparently high wealth escort. Whether they cheat on their taxes may add a moral dimension to whether you tip (or even hire) such an escort, but in most cases you would never know what he told the tax office. Juan's comment is valid, 'It strikes me as unfair to punish a guy for being successful'. Not your tax-cheating escort, but any escort who appears to be particularly successful. That is how I read his post. I did not think he was in any way justifying the actions of the escort you write about.

[Rudynate]

Seems like an emerging sub-theme of this thread is: SHIT HAPPENS to he who drives a Mercedes.

 

No, I think it's more like "driving a Mercedes doesn't keep shit from happening to you."

[TruHart1]

I'll not always tip an escort who gives me an excellent experience, especially if they are up for a meal (off the clock) for which I am more than happy to foot the bill. Those who are traveling through but who give me such a fine experience that I will hire them each time they visit my area, and yet might be too booked to have the extra time to go out to dinner will almost always deserve (in my mind) and receive a modest tip from me, depending on the level of the experience they have furnished. There are, however, certainly other ways to tip repeat hires besides monetarily.

 

TruHart1

[Rudynate]

I think you are being too harsh on Juan. I agree that what he wrote does not address the specifics of the example you cited but I don't think that was what he was trying to do (and nor was I in my comments). As I read it he, like some other posters, used your example as the basis for discussing the broader issue of whether to tip a high fee, and apparently high wealth escort. Whether they cheat on their taxes may add a moral dimension to whether you tip (or even hire) such an escort, but in most cases you would never know what he told the tax office. Juan's comment is valid, 'It strikes me as unfair to punish a guy for being successful'. Not your tax-cheating escort, but any escort who appears to be particularly successful. That is how I read his post. I did not think he was in any way justifying the actions of the escort you write about.

 

 

In other words, whether or not you tip him shouldn't be a function of how much money he makes, but how much value he delivers. People who don't tip shouldn't succumb to detailed discussions of why they don't tip. They inevitably end up looking bad and if they had just left it at "I don't tip," nobody would have given it a second thought. Juan said it so well - tip if you want to, don't tip if you don't want to.

[Steven_Draker]

People who don't tip shouldn't succumb to detailed discussions of why they don't tip. They inevitably end up looking bad and if they had just left it at "I don't tip," nobody would have given it a second thought.

 

I agree. It makes them look ugly and the responses contrived.