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Bruce Jenner


foxy
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I watched the interview last night with Diane Sawyer and have been thinking that Rock Hudson,when he died of AIDS, it was said he put a face to the disease. Now possibly Bruce Jenner has put a face to transgender. It's a hard thing to understand but despite the tabloid aspect it seems it's something of a landmark. Curious to know others reaction to all this.

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I did not watch the interview but read an article about it online. It actually sounded like it would have been good (I know I can catch it on Hulu). I remember when he won the Olympics and he was the golden boy and then he did "Can't Stop the Music" (maybe not the best move but it was kind of fun in a way). I think if someone would have said that this would be him even 5 years ago no one would have believed it.

 

I think unfortunately he had no choice but to go public with this, given how large of a celebrity he is. It sounds like he has a good support system and the fact that it was kept totally quiet I think is a credit to those who knew (and considering how hard it is for a celebrity-or anybody-to keep a secret in this day and age).

 

I do think that he now does put a face to being transgender. I know that there is Laverne Cox (who I do admire) but she was already transgendered when she became famous.

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Chaz Bono I think was the first transgender celebrity (minor celebrity before surgery) and of course Christine Jurgensen was the first transgender Celebrity (not a celebrity until she had transgender surgery). Renee Richards, erstwhile ophthalmologist turned tennis pro.

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His speech and puffy lips were a little off-putting, but he seemed almost giddy when he talked about his decision and his expectations for his future. I felt much more sympathetic than I expected after hearing his story and that he had been dealing with these feelings since a very early age. I hope this all works out for him.

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Renee Richards, erstwhile ophthalmologist turned tennis pro.

 

I hadn't thought about Renee Richards for awhile. Your mention of her made me want to take a look at Wikipedia.

 

Some interesting things-she was denied entry to the U.S. Open in 1976 due to a 'born woman rule'. She won a court case against U.S. Tennis Association. However since then her views have changed.

 

"Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying “Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22 (clarification: instead of at age 41) , and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I’ve reconsidered my opinion. "

 

As of an article in 2007, she was for same sex couples having equal rights with married heterosexual couples, but at least back then her definition of marriage was traditional.

 

Gman

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Guest ChrisW

I find my self perplexed by the notion of celebrity. When I have met famous people and you do in this business, I treat them like anyone else because I imagine they get tired of being a spectacle. I am elated that Bruce Jenner can be her authentic self but there is something ghoulish about the hubbub of her transition. Let her live her life in private.

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I find my self perplexed by the notion of celebrity. When I have met famous people and you do in this business, I treat them like anyone else because I imagine they get tired of being a spectacle. I am elated that Bruce Jenner can be her authentic self but there is something ghoulish about the hubbub of her transition. Let her live her life in private.

 

I am happy that Bruce Jenner can finally talk about who he really is in an interview broadcast nationwide. He has come a long way, and so has the nation. But, I wish he had not chosen an upcoming reality show to document the next phase in his life. Whatever happens, I am sure we all wish Bruce the best!

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I did watch the interview and was impressed with the way both Bruce and Diane Sawyer handled it. Seeing Bruce starting to look like a woman was a bit disconcerting though, but I think that's because it was "Bruce Jenner" who used to be so totally jack-off worthy. If it would have been someone else, it would be easier to watch. Overall I learned LOTS and thought the interview was really well done. Seeing Bruce go through this makes me think that my coming out as a gay man was easy in comparison.

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I didn't watch the interview, but I was very surprised he's a Republican. Does he really think they'll welcome him with open arms?

 

I'm also confused that he identifies as a woman and is attracted to other women, yet considers himself heterosexual. Typical Republican "logic". ;)

 

Rob

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Strange that Jenner doesn't see any connection between his being Republican and living in a world where transgendered people are shamed.

 

I didn't watch the interview, but I was very surprised he's a Republican. Does he really think they'll welcome him with open arms?

 

I think there is a a difference between being Republican on most issues, and not agreeing with the Republican stance on a specific social issue. This is no different than Catholics who do not agree with the Pope on issue of gay marriage. For some individuals, it is more than they are willing to accept and they will leave the Republican Party (or Catholic church) and others will feel so strongly about the issue that they choose to remain a minority in the party and try to influence change from within.

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But, I wish he had not chosen an upcoming reality show to document the next phase in his life.

 

I agree. I support his transgender life, and of course his decision to make it public. But going "reality show" with it, IMO, just cheapens the whole thing and makes it more salacious. Though one could say that using the show is a good way of promoting his journey, it's also very easy to take the more jaded point of view that he's somehow using his private life to promote the show. Is it really about his transformation, or is it, unfortunately to say, really about ratings?

 

That said, I think he's very courageous for "coming out" as he has, and more power to him on his own terms.

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Am I missing something here? This is a big and courageous step for Mr. Jenner, and I wish him all the best in his endeavor, but isn't this yesterday's news? I recall hearing/reading about his transition initiatives some time ago.

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Guest countryboywny
I think he should do whatever it is that makes him happy. He's 65 years old, if not now, when.

 

I agree, BVB. I admire his courage, but I thought he was such a handsome man.

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I hate to sound selfish but maybe all this transgender talk will make gay people like us look more mainstream...

 

Will the transgender be the next "cultural war"?

 

I can't wait for ballot initiatives to motivate conservatives, rednecks, evangelicals and blue dogs to come out and vote republican:

 

No state funding for transgender sex change surgery.

 

No book on transgender's lifestyle available without parental approval: "Billy's dad's is now his 2nd mommy", no public funding for such a book and it should be covered on a public library.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/hitler_audio.shtml

 

Hitler once remarked 'If the Jews didn't exist, we would have to invent them'. This is one of his most revealing comments on Nazism. Nothing creates more unity than a common enemy. The hatred of the Jews was the backbone of Hitler's power.

In 2004 in Ohio we were all Jews and the election was decided on one single issue: gay marriage.

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Hitler once remarked 'If the Jews didn't exist, we would have to invent them'. This is one of his most revealing comments on Nazism. Nothing creates more unity than a common enemy. The hatred of the Jews was the backbone of Hitler's power.

 

This sounds suspiciously like what Roberto Goizueta, Chairman and CEO of Coca-Cola, said about Pepsi. I'd be shocked if Hitler ever said anything like that. He sincerely believed in the what he said about the Jews.

 

Regardless, what you're implying is true; a scapegoat is a very useful thing.

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This sounds suspiciously like what Roberto Goizueta, Chairman and CEO of Coca-Cola, said about Pepsi. I'd be shocked if Hitler ever said anything like that. He sincerely believed in the what he said about the Jews.

 

Regardless, what you're implying is true; a scapegoat is a very useful thing.

 

And we were the scapegoat in 2004.

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Wow. I had no idea this was even an issue.

 

It is a big-time issue to the point where there is an acronym for transphobic radfems: TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist). (Not all radfems are TERFs, but all TERFs are radfems.) It's led well-known TERF Meghan Murphy to criticize a recent Allure photograph of a nude Laverne Cox as follows:

 

https://archive.is/Kfzc4

 

A representative excerpt:

 

If women or transwomen were truly allowed to love themselves, I doubt they’d be spending thousands and thousands of dollars sculpting their bodies in order to look like some cartoonish version of “woman,” as defined by the porn industry and pop culture. The fact that Cox’s body is seen as “subversive” because she is trans doesn’t change that. Her body doesn’tlook subversive. It looks like any other objectified female body, sculpted by surgery and enhanced by Photoshop.

 

As for Bruce Jenner, I think she looks fine as a woman. (I'm using female pronouns because the process of transitioning has begun, but until another name is provided, it's likely Bruce will be referred to as "he" by most.) Like Laverne Cox, she is taller than the average woman, which may make something of a difference to how likely it is people will identify her as a woman. Like the trans woman who was liturgist at church on Easter Sunday (probably a coincidence, but who knows?) and who transitioned a couple of years ago while in her late 50s, she has a squarish jaw, which explains the tracheal shave she reportedly underwent. (I think my friend has had one as well.) But really it's no business of ours other than to be aware that she's transitioning and to show her our support. I wish her the best.

 

Those who had gender reassignment surgery in the early days like Christine Joregenson and Renee Richards were viewed more as medical oddities than as the dangers to society trans people have subsequently been widely viewed as. Nowadays it may be less common for trans people to undergo bottom (i.e., sexual reassignment/genital) surgery, especially trans men, though the vast majority undergo the kind of hormone treatment Jenner has already begun.

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