Importance of having a will

[rvwnsd]

Marriage doesn't obviate the usefulness of a will, but it does put one in a much stronger legal position vis-a-vis hostile family members...

 

Just ask Anna Nicole Smith how easy it was to battle her late husband's hostile family. If memory serves, she had to go all the way to the Supreme Court.

 

While I support marriage equality, it will not be a panacea.

[cany10011]

Irtwo, you are absolutely right. "Modest" is a relative term considering the background of his partner's family. Poor word choice on my part. I'm lucky just to own a condo..as I'm not fortunate enough to find a rich husband to buy or leave me one.

[operalover21]

One of my dear friend's boyfriend of 15 years died unexpectedly leaving no will. His modest estate of a townhouse in the west village where they resided, along with a few apartments are going to his family (who already has plenty). His family has asked my friend to leave the townhouse as they have received a cash offer (the house isn't listed yet but a broker had contacted the executor already!). My friend is inconsolable with losing so much at once. He's engaged a lawyer but doesn't think things are optimistic...

 

I'll never understand why people who are normally fairly smart and savvy don't have a will or a living trust or better, a combination of them. I had my first will when I was 23. I've regularly revised it along with my living trusts every few years. It's imperative.

[operalover21]

Something very similar happened to friends of mine: the house was in one man's name, and when he died suddenly, his adult children immediately evicted his longtime partner from the house, even though he had always contributed equally to the cost of maintaining it. Until gay marriage is legal everywhere, every couple should have wills.

 

I'm sorry but that's not the fault of gay marriage or the children. It's the fault of the fool who neglected to leave legal instructions on what was to be done with his property. You can't seriously believe that once gay marriage is legal everywhere, that wills won't be necessary? Really?

 

Wake-up people.

[operalover21]

According to the contract law class I took for part of my degree, there are ways to contest wills that leave partners out or contracts that are inherently unfair... however, it's time-consuming and costly.

 

And of course a living will is just as important.

 

Absolutely, but there's also very little you can challenge when the person doesn't leave a will at all.

[bigvalboy]

Wow. Together for 15 years, in their 50s, and no will. If that ain't the most passive-aggressive FU from the grave, I don't know what is. One would hope that being together for 15 years would have some importance in the eyes of the law. I wouldn't think of leaving my domestic partner high and dry. And I don't think he'd let me "forget" to write a will, either. Most of the blame lies with the decedent, of course, but one would think that it would have been wise for the partner to bring it up at some point during those 15 years also.

 

I agree with your assessment of the situation, and I cant imagine not having a will or a medical directive for my heirs. That being said, I can't tell you how many people I know, who by any measure would be considered part of the 1%, yet not have dealt with a will, medical directive, or worse, have not decided who should raise their children, should the unthinkable happen. I have wealthy gay friends who have been with their partners for 20 + years and have not made plans for the inevitable.

 

I rather suspect that a large part of the problem is that there are a fair amount of people who just don't like thinking about the end of their lives, or don't believe that they are old enough to start worrying about that sort of thing...go figure.

[+ Charlie]

I'm sorry but that's not the fault of gay marriage or the children. It's the fault of the fool who neglected to leave legal instructions on what was to be done with his property. You can't seriously believe that once gay marriage is legal everywhere, that wills won't be necessary? Really?

 

Wake-up people.

I didn't claim that wills won't be necessary--I have no intention of dropping mine, even if I do marry my partner. My point was that if my friends had been married, the surviving partner would have had a better chance to oppose his deceased partner's children when they evicted him from the joint home.

 

I was shocked that an intelligent, responsible public official did not have a will, and I was equally shocked when his best friend, who saw the damage that was done, admitted to me a few years later that he still hasn't got around to making his own will, even though he is elderly and not in good health. A lot of people just don't want to commit themselves to making plans for their own death. Like you, I have had a will since I was in my 20s.

[+ blondeq]

My partner of 12.5 years and I just went through this process with an estate attorney. Living in a red-neck state, the attorney advised the following to protect all the assets from family.

1) Living trust with all assets (of any value) deeded to the trust. All bank, financial and retirement accounts list the trust as the beneficiary. The only assets left outside the trust are personal items that don't have a value over $2,000. For those personal items, the attorney had us list the items and the person to receive the items; she then encompassed them within a will.

2) Will

3) Medical Power of Attorney. Physicians were provided copies. Enrolled in Docubank which is an electronic service that outlines your healthcare directives to any hospital or physician

4) Living Will

4) Durable Power of Attorney

5) We then developed statements of information for a few members of each family. These notices basically outlined that we had discussed our intentions with the family members. All but one family member signed the statements acknowledging that we spoke with them. These were all notarized. BTW, we included our medical directives as part of the statements.

This is probably over-kill (no pun intended) and frankly, I don't think either family would dispute anything. However, I prefer to be safe and not leave someone grieving to think in the best interest of the surviving partner.

The total cost for all this service was about $3000. We are not rich, but have a reasonable nest egg to protect.

[operalover21]

I didn't claim that wills won't be necessary--I have no intention of dropping mine, even if I do marry my partner. My point was that if my friends had been married, the surviving partner would have had a better chance to oppose his deceased partner's children when they evicted him from the joint home.

 

I was shocked that an intelligent, responsible public official did not have a will, and I was equally shocked when his best friend, who saw the damage that was done, admitted to me a few years later that he still hasn't got around to making his own will, even though he is elderly and not in good health. A lot of people just don't want to commit themselves to making plans for their own death. Like you, I have had a will since I was in my 20s.

 

Sorry, I was just reacting to your post which said "until gay marriage is legal everywhere, you should have wills." The obvious implication of that statement was (in the use of the word until) that once gay marriage was legal it wouldn't be necessary. I get what you were saying now.

[operalover21]

My partner of 12.5 years and I just went through this process with an estate attorney. Living in a red-neck state, the attorney advised the following to protect all the assets from family.

1) Living trust with all assets (of any value) deeded to the trust. All bank, financial and retirement accounts list the trust as the beneficiary. The only assets left outside the trust are personal items that don't have a value over $2,000. For those personal items, the attorney had us list the items and the person to receive the items; she then encompassed them within a will.

2) Will

3) Medical Power of Attorney. Physicians were provided copies. Enrolled in Docubank which is an electronic service that outlines your healthcare directives to any hospital or physician

4) Living Will

4) Durable Power of Attorney

5) We then developed statements of information for a few members of each family. These notices basically outlined that we had discussed our intentions with the family members. All but one family member signed the statements acknowledging that we spoke with them. These were all notarized. BTW, we included our medical directives as part of the statements.

This is probably over-kill (no pun intended) and frankly, I don't think either family would dispute anything. However, I prefer to be safe and not leave someone grieving to think in the best interest of the surviving partner.

The total cost for all this service was about $3000. We are not rich, but have a reasonable nest egg to protect.

 

Apart from the bigoted comment about a "red neck state", this is exactly what one needs. And, of course, it has nothing to do with being gay. Straight couples or just plain old individuals need all the same things. This has nothing to do with being gay.

[robberbaron4u]

A man who has been in my employ for a decade is now in a similar situation. Having been the sole caretaker of his mother, his sisters seized upon her having been diagnosed with dementia as an opportunity to "move in" and wrap things up for themselves. Obtaining a power of attorney for the mother, they put my employee out of the family home and "ma" when to an assisted living facility. The house was emptied of its contents. Three months after the initial "move', the mother was relocated to another county, and, she executed a "new" will leaving my employee nothing and her daughters everything. My employee is contesting the will, an action which is "eating" his money. The husband of one of the sisters is an attorney, and, as he is representing the "estate", they have an unfair advantage in the litigation as they have no legal fees. In my experience, a "will" is something to be "broken" and, no more than fodder to feed attorney's specializing in estates and trusts. Put the name of your significant other or loved one on your banking and brokerage accounts, payable on death, real property should be tenants in common with right of survivorship, and, TODs (Transfer on Death) are legal in some states.

[gallahadesquire]

I'm not a lawyer, but went through the entire process of setting up my mother's trust. Her will basically said, "Follow the rules of the trust." My understanding is that wills are "Last [Desires] and [statements]". They carry very little weight, which is why they are so often contested.

 

As the beneficiary of a trust, it's much harder to have someone contest the terms of the trust.

 

Trust DO avoid probate (in the mid-'70's, my grandfather's will was probated for two years). They do NOT prevent estate taxes.

 

In Massachusetts, for those of you involved in our August Commonwealth, Advanced Directives for Healthcare are not followed. Massachusetts requires someone to speak for you, thus we have a "Healthcare Proxy", which is available almost everywhere and just requires to witnesses. Handy, that. realizing that my Sister tends to get a bit hysterical at times, my very best Female friend is my Health Care Proxy.

 

Also, my understanding is the Massachusetts not only taxes the ESTATE, but also taxes the BENEFICIARY. Not good.

 

Just my two cents. I've been quiet for too long.

[operalover21]

I'm not a lawyer, but went through the entire process of setting up my mother's trust. Her will basically said, "Follow the rules of the trust." My understanding is that wills are "Last [Desires] and [statements]". They carry very little weight, which is why they are so often contested.

 

As the beneficiary of a trust, it's much harder to have someone contest the terms of the trust.

 

Trust DO avoid probate (in the mid-'70's, my grandfather's will was probated for two years). They do NOT prevent estate taxes.

 

In Massachusetts, for those of you involved in our August Commonwealth, Advanced Directives for Healthcare are not followed. Massachusetts requires someone to speak for you, thus we have a "Healthcare Proxy", which is available almost everywhere and just requires to witnesses. Handy, that. realizing that my Sister tends to get a bit hysterical at times, my very best Female friend is my Health Care Proxy.

 

Also, my understanding is the Massachusetts not only taxes the ESTATE, but also taxes the BENEFICIARY. Not good.

 

Just my two cents. I've been quiet for too long.

 

Some trusts DO avoid taxes. I set-up a CHARITABLE TRUST and put all of my assets in it which will avoid almost all taxes upon my death. Sometimes that is the way to go.

 

We all have heard the horror stories. Families can be a trip when it comes to death and money. I still remember growing up and being at Trinity Church, Newport for a funeral of the grandmother of a close friend. While we were there, another family member rented a moving fan and cleaned out the house while everyone else was at the funeral. We all arrived back at the family home for the reception and it had been picked clean.

[operalover21]

I'm not a lawyer, but went through the entire process of setting up my mother's trust. Her will basically said, "Follow the rules of the trust." My understanding is that wills are "Last [Desires] and [statements]". They carry very little weight, which is why they are so often contested.

 

As the beneficiary of a trust, it's much harder to have someone contest the terms of the trust.

 

Trust DO avoid probate (in the mid-'70's, my grandfather's will was probated for two years). They do NOT prevent estate taxes.

 

In Massachusetts, for those of you involved in our August Commonwealth, Advanced Directives for Healthcare are not followed. Massachusetts requires someone to speak for you, thus we have a "Healthcare Proxy", which is available almost everywhere and just requires to witnesses. Handy, that. realizing that my Sister tends to get a bit hysterical at times, my very best Female friend is my Health Care Proxy.

 

Also, my understanding is the Massachusetts not only taxes the ESTATE, but also taxes the BENEFICIARY. Not good.

 

Just my two cents. I've been quiet for too long.

 

 

There's a reason they call it TAXACHUSETTS. Miserable place.

[bigvalboy]

I'm not a lawyer, but went through the entire process of setting up my mother's trust. Her will basically said, "Follow the rules of the trust." My understanding is that wills are "Last [Desires] and [statements]". They carry very little weight, which is why they are so often contested.

 

As the beneficiary of a trust, it's much harder to have someone contest the terms of the trust.

 

Exactly!!! In California it depends on how the money in the trust is held. Done correctly, and the heirs are not taxed upon your death.

 

Just my two cents. I've been quiet for too long.

 

And yes, you have been quiet too long.

[tyro]

This thread has been very valuable to me. I really admire OL and Charlie for thinking that far ahead and creating their first wills early. It's not something I've ever really taken too seriously, but it seems to be about time to (especially now that I'm officially divorced.)

T

[robberbaron4u]

In 1932, a man of great wealth in the South deceased; he left a will creating a trust: his wife would receive the income for and during his lifetime, and, at her death, their then infant daughter would receive the income; in the event that the daughter deceased without heirs, his fortune would then go to a charitable institution. The widow becomes the wealthiest woman in her state; daughter grows up, and, she contracts a marriage with a "gay" man. The widow deceases, and, daughter and son-in-law, who are childless, become apprised of the terms and conditions of her father's will and the trust created by it. Son-in-law realizes that if his wife dies, he will left more or less penniless. He persuades daughter to go to court to break the trust, or, at the best yet, force the particular bank which is the trustee, to set aside a seoarate marital trust of $1,000,000 for himself, and, in addition, forgiven the $700,000 the couple have borrowed from the trust to maintain a somewhat affluent lifestyle. The bank, which is making money on the management of the trust, does not back down, and, eventually, after $250,000 in legal fees taxed to the daughter, the court rules in favor of the bank and the trust. As an aside, the sitting judge laces his judgment with the bemusing advisement that the couple should "go out and get some children" and they could "take care of dad in his old age" should their mother predecease him, prudent advise which they promptly followed.

[operalover21]

Sometimes people need a little push ...

 

I created my own last will about a decade ago, leaving all my belongings to one person. That's also the person who could decide to "turn of all switches" if I would be hit by a car and would end up like a vegetable.

 

He didn't have a last will and I didn't find that wise. I had seen that, once someone dies, grief makes place for greed really fast, and a big fight would start between those who were left behind. So I pushed him to decide what he wanted and when he had made up his mind I made an appointment with a lawyer. I drove him there to make sure everything was legal and taken care of.

 

I still remember arriving at the lawyer's office. The lawyer only wanted to talk to my friend privately. LOL, I think he was very suspicious that I had forced my friend to put me in his last will as his only beneficiary.

 

Actually, I really didn't care. Most of all I didn't want to see the fight again that I had seen before.

 

Sincerely, Anton.

 

Something very similar happened to me when I left everything in trust to another person. After I informed him what I was going to do he said "I think we should do the same thing for me and I will leave everything I have (he didn't have anything except great prospects!) to you." I honestly hadn't thought of it but I thought it was not only a fine gesture but certainly made me think I had chosen the right person.

[bigvalboy]

Sometimes people need a little push ...

 

I created my own last will about a decade ago, leaving all my belongings to one person. That's also the person who could decide to "turn of all switches" if I would be hit by a car and would end up like a vegetable.

 

He didn't have a last will and I didn't find that wise. I had seen that, once someone dies, grief makes place for greed really fast, and a big fight would start between those who were left behind. So I pushed him to decide what he wanted and when he had made up his mind I made an appointment with a lawyer. I drove him there to make sure everything was legal and taken care of.

 

I still remember arriving at the lawyer's office. The lawyer only wanted to talk to my friend privately. LOL, I think he was very suspicious that I had forced my friend to put me in his last will as his only beneficiary.

 

Actually, I really didn't care. Most of all I didn't want to see the fight again that I had seen before.

 

Sincerely, Anton.

 

Anton, I sent you a PM......

[Rick Munroe]

Wow. Together for 15 years, in their 50s, and no will. If that ain't the most passive-aggressive FU from the grave, I don't know what is.

 

My thoughts exactly!

[Businessguy]

Think farther down the road!

 

There is lot of good advice here. I too have seen some very selfish things done by people who you would least expect it from when there is substantial money involved.

I was touched by the stories of the wills and trusts where the parties left everything to each other. If you do that, each document should have an alternate beneficiary in case the first person has already died or in the horrible case that the two people die at the same time as in a car accident. Often people don't update a will or trust once it is done even when parties to the document have died. In that case, the document will be declared invalid and everything ends up in probate court. And probably the estate will end up in the hands of someone who was not even in the picture when the document was drafted. Just be sure to think a couple of steps down the road so your efforts are not wasted. A good attorney will know how to word it the right way.

[bigvalboy]

In 1932, a man of great wealth in the South deceased; he left a will creating a trust: his wife would receive the income for and during his lifetime, and, at her death, their then infant daughter would receive the income; in the event that the daughter deceased without heirs, his fortune would then go to a charitable institution. The widow becomes the wealthiest woman in her state; daughter grows up, and, she contracts a marriage with a "gay" man. The widow deceases, and, daughter and son-in-law, who are childless, become apprised of the terms and conditions of her father's will and the trust created by it. Son-in-law realizes that if his wife dies, he will left more or less penniless. He persuades daughter to go to court to break the trust, or, at the best yet, force the particular bank which is the trustee, to set aside a separate marital trust of $1,000,000 for himself, and, in addition, forgiven the $700,000 the couple have borrowed from the trust to maintain a somewhat affluent lifestyle. The bank, which is making money on the management of the trust, does not back down, and, eventually, after $250,000 in legal fees taxed to the daughter, the court rules in favor of the bank and the trust. As an aside, the sitting judge laces his judgment with the bemusing advisement that the couple should "go out and get some children" and they could "take care of dad in his old age" should their mother predecease him, prudent advise which they promptly followed.

 

Funny how money changes people. Upon the death of my friends parents, a sibling stepped in and desperately tried to change the terms of the trust. They had borrowed a substantial amount from the trust over the years, but his parents had always secured the loans with trust deeds. The trust was clear, upon their death the loan would come due, and had to be paid in full back into the trust. The sibling argued that the agreement to repay the money back to the trust, which was a loosely worded verbal agreement between parties should stand, as that agreement should continue beyond the death of his parents. Basically allowing the sibling to repay a rather substantial amount of money back to the trust spread out over the course of over a decade. In the end the judge upheld the terms of the trust, forcing repayment.

 

I say it is imperative that in your life you surround yourself with only those people that you trust explicitly, and think very carefully about the character of someone that you entrust to handle your affairs, whether it be financial, medical, or personal.

[Guest]

Apart from the bigoted comment about a "red neck state", this is exactly what one needs. And, of course, it has nothing to do with being gay. Straight couples or just plain old individuals need all the same things. This has nothing to do with being gay.

 

??? Are you saying that there aren't any redneck states? Akransas and Oklahoma would surely qualify, and one would have to be more careful there...

[Samai139]

+1

 

Everybody should have a will, a healthcare proxy, a durable power of attorney and probably a directive to physicians.

 

Kevin Slater

 

Kevin said it all. Putting off preparing those things is a recipe for trouble or worse. Let's hope that those who need to hear and heed the advice, do.

[operalover21]

??? Are you saying that there aren't any redneck states? Akransas and Oklahoma would surely qualify, and one would have to be more careful there...

 

"Red neck" is a bigoted, prejudice term no different than saying ******, spic or faggot. As gay men, we need to learn that we can't decry the prejudice towards "us" and at the same time use terms like red neck, bible thumpers, and the like. It makes us just like the very people we claim are the bigots.