Our community needs a safe harbor...

[Guy Fawkes]

I have heard from escorts that they prefer not to visit here because they get beat up. I've heard from clients that likewise are scared to ask questions because they fear ridicule. I'm not quite sure how to deal with this.

 

However I know I don't like the bullying one bit. We risk losing somebody when that happens. It happened in Oregon just a bit over a week ago. "...pushed to suicide after being bullied in person and on the Internet because he is Gay." We are the internet, and I don't think I could handle it if my website was the cause of such a tragedy.

 

Recently I gently tried to point this out, people started making fun of what I said.

 

In that case, the escort had stepped out of his comfort zone quite a ways. He did a wonderful job of presenting himself in a positive, confident, and fun manner. It takes a lot of balls to do such a makeover. All this in an attempt to improve his life. In return he was subjected to name calling, questionable humor, and rejection.

 

This really isn't acceptable "Free Speech" from my point of view. This has happened multiple times this year alone. I'm pretty much getting to the point that if we can't start acting like the "Gentleman's Club" that has always be envisioned, that it's not worth the effort to continue the venue.

 

I've created an "Escorts Only" forum twice before with only one rule: "What is said in this area, stays in this area." each time the rule was fairly quickly broken multiple times. I'm wondering if I should try one more time; being more selective (i.e. You don't get in until you have multiple reviews) and if the rule is broken, they're gone completely both for the forum and from the website.

 

I've always been of the opinion that what I do for my younger kids; I do for my older kids. So if I was to revisit the concept; this time there would also be a "Clients Only" forum and perhaps a shared area where the two could mingle.

 

Suggestions welcome.

[Juan Vancouver]

Hi Daddy,

 

I am entirely unaware of what is it that exactly happened that prompted this, but I am well aware of the vitriol that sometimes is generously poured here. Sadly aside from heavy moderation with the goal of creating a safe environment where useful ideas can be shared, I have no suggestion about how to deal with this.

 

If I am responding to your post is to share my personal reason to come here. I am not much interested neither in current topics, movie reviews or political discussions. I am not here to create friends or witness other people's relationships. I am not here even to promote my escorting work. I believe that if it doesn't promote on its own, then I am not doing my work correctly.

 

The reason I come here and find this place invaluable is because I love answering inexperienced men's questions about sex, their bodies, the process of hiring and to be a cybernetic part of the process of some men becoming sexually active fulfilled adults. The escorting politics, the old feuds, even the promotional parties are not as interesting to me as is this process of helping people look at escorting, their bodies and sex from a slightly different perspective.

 

If the forum turned into two forums, one for escorts, one for clients, I fear that that really important process would be lost, and personally, I would not be compelled to visit. Whatever you do, please keep the "Ask an escort" section.

 

Yeah, some people are catty; both escorts and clients. Yeah, if one is not careful about one's attitude, one can get into trouble, but it is my personal belief (and experience) that if you remain respectful, that is what you will get in return, for the most part.

 

Keep up with the good work. I think you do know how important this site is for many and how profoundly their lives have been changed by it. Personally I want to thank you because it has helped me understand my work and my vocation more deeply.

 

Big hug and my warmest wishes,

 

Juan Bruno

[Kevin Slater]

Rather than erecting walls or knocking down the house, why not bounce guests?

 

Daddy,

 

I agree that the conduct on here sometimes gets out of hand. I think that most of us who come here post respectfully and very rarely in a hurtful manner, and this forum, with its diversity of posters (clients, escorts, lookie loos, old hands, newbies, fans, critics, hell, even straight folk) is an invaluable part of their lives. And then there are the troublemakers, the ones who enjoy dropping bombs, picking fights, and refuse to walk away once one is started.

 

This forum is your domain. You have the right to host one group in the living room and another in the kitchen. Like Juan, I would find that less interesting. I'd prefer to see you (and the moderators) disinvite the troublemakers instead. This is not a free speech issue. This is your house, not a public venue: you can invite or kick out whom you chose. The forum exists solely because of your good will. It's my understanding that a few easily identifiable posters regularly abuse your benevolence and drag the party down for all of us. Why not give them a warning then the boot when it's clear that some poster is intent on bullying like you mention? Others claim that such a party lacks diversity; I say I'd rather have fewer louts and more substance than a drunken brawl each time I attend.

 

Kevin Slater

[Diverdan]

Juan and Kevin make excellent points. This is your playpen, Daddy, and I have loved it, with a few exceptions. You have the right to create time outs and to ban folks when they go overboard, but for the most part, I don't have a problem most of the time. I don't understand why some folks seem to get their kicks from bullying or knocking down others, but in most case that is because they are very insecure. So, I hope you keep this going for both sides of the equation, and if necessary, be more rigorous in the policing of the content. Thanks for maintaing this site for all of us to enjoy.

DD

[+ purplekow]

Daddy I do not envy your situation and I do appreciate the effort it takes to keep this place running. It seem incongruous to have a "gentleman's club" which needs babysitters. Yet often we find gentlemen acting more like spoiled children than mature human beings.

 

After many years, i have a few scars where an Achilles heel has been pierced but for the most part, I do not feel put upon during my time here. I agree that if you are hosting a party, it is incumbent to keep the activities entertaining, imaginative and relatively peaceful. Where does discussion turn to derision? Where does lively debate turn to personal nuclear war? Those borders are amorphous and keeping this site on the positive side of those borders is not easy.

 

In general,, I believe the moderators here do a great job of keeping things under control. An occasional skirmish goes further than it should. I do not believe big time changes need to be made. Ever vigilant, that is the key.

 

You have a core of escorts who post here who have a mature attitude and an agenda which does not feature personal advancement as a major component. I would suggest recruiting these escorts as ambassadors. See if you can encourage these escorts to communicate with new escort posters privately. Perhaps you can have an feature in the mail section which would allow escorts to send messages not just to individuals but to all the escorts as a group.

 

This site will never be without controversy, but if clients and escorts alike are reminded that they do have allies among those sitting sending messages into the ether, it makes it easier to dodge the occasional flaming arrow sent in one's direction.

[down_to_business]

I have said before that your job here is like herding cats and that is probably on a good day. I have felt both empowered and bullied here at times. In all fairness, the bullies eventually got timed-out or went away. At times I have not posted. I have disappeared for a while. I have always come back.

 

Personally, I find the message center an invaluable tool. Being able to learn and ask questions from escorts and clients alike. I have both hired and not hired escorts based on interactions on and information from this forum. I also find the private messaging system wonderful and have hired, not hired, and hope to hire/meet escorts from there. A current favorite escort of mine would have never been hired by me in the first place if not for this forum/message center. There is another I am really looking forward to meeting from our exchanged PM's. Again this would never have happened without this part of your website.

 

My experience with moderating on another website ( not escort related at all) was the biggest problem was from multiple identities. I find these are some of the biggest troublemakers and would really like to see them all exposed and then banned. But I think you and the moderators do a great job in general. I have been really amazed with Cooper who I think is a role model for a moderator, A+.

 

Finally, I don't think seperate forums would work. The pressure put on an escort would be impossible. For example, say a client hired escort X for a weekend every month. Client X tells escort I will not hire you any more if you don't let me see whats posted in the escort only section. Is escort X going to risk losing $24,000 of income from this client. Likewise, a client only forum would not offer much of anything. But If clients lose the right to share the negative stuff too, however painful (like being ripped-off by an escort), then I think we will all be losers for it in the end.

 

Thanks Daddy for all that you do.

[+ bigjoey]

I agree with Juan and Kevin: it is your site and you make the rules; it is not a democracy.

 

A few posters who are not mature should not destroy the site but instead should be banned. Ace does this over at Muscleservice. First, a time-out and then a permanent ban. In any public place, be it on line or in the real world, some people spoil it for others.

 

Recently, while waiting in a TSA security line in my socking feet with no belt and empty pockets, I thought: just because some radical muslims hijack planes and murder people all of society is forced into these defensive actions with costs in time and resources. Because some mentally unstable young men murder people with guns, there is talk about all types of "gun control" on everyone. Because some people can not control what they eat, there are bans on soda drink sizes, trans-fats, salt, etc. The real world has now cxome to the virtual one; some people can not control what they type so all of us suffer.

 

The mix of escort and customer comments is valuable to the content of this site. Any separation will make it a less interesting place. Please keep it as it is and just ban those who are jerks and not mature. Thank you for all you do to keep this site. It is a great resource to those of us who hire.

[Steven_Draker]

I have no problem with having two separate forums or one forum altogether. One should bear in mind that most who come on this Forum are anonymous figures except escorts, who are semipublic figures. An anonymous poster is "free" to say everything he wants, even damage an escort's reputation and come back with a new handle and a "fresh start". And there are those who come here with a personal agenda even though they say don't have one.

[+ poolboy48220]

Like many have said here, I value the client/escort interaction. I'm also very grateful to have a place to discuss things that I really have no venue to discuss outside of here. Having some small experience with moderating discussion websites, I know how difficult it is to ban people - it's way too easy to just come back under a different name, and start the same nonsense that got you banned in the first place.

 

Sorry I don't have any answers but I really don't want to see this forum go away. I've only been on for a year, maybe, but it's become a part of my daily routine.

[Xander]

There should not be two forums. We need a way to motivate and reward upstanding members in the community. Creating private forums only emphasizes the dysfunctional behavior present.

 

But this is a chicken and egg problem when it comes to finding a solution, if you ask me.

[Scorpio]

I agree with Kevin "bounce" the offending guests. But I would add that it should be done in a consistent and non-arbitrary manner. Time-outs often seem to be handed out arbitrarily. Also, if someone gets bounced post a statement in the offending post as to why they got bounced, that way there's less speculation and conspiracy theories floating around.

 

Also, I personally don't think the Escort Only Forum will work...for the exact same reasons it didn't work in the past. And if you do institute EO Forum, the selection criteria seems to be a little tough. There any number of excellent escorts that don't get reviews and making that a criteria for selection might lead to an attempted manipulation of the review process.

[Kevin Slater]

I agree with Kevin "bounce" the offending guests. But I would add that it should be done in a consistent and non-arbitrary manner. Time-outs often seem to be handed out arbitrarily. Also, if someone gets bounced post a statement in the offending post as to why they got bounced, that way there's less speculation and conspiracy theories floating around.

 

I'm also ok with bouncing capriciously if it saves the moderators time and effort. If I don't invite someone back to my dinner parties, I don't feel a need to explain to them or others. Their presence was no longer required, is all.

 

Also, I personally don't think the Escort Only Forum will work...for the exact same reasons it didn't work in the past. And if you do institute EO Forum, the selection criteria seems to be a little tough. There any number of excellent escorts that don't get reviews and making that a criteria for selection might lead to an attempted manipulation of the review process.

 

I agree. I think we all want to see more escort participation here, not less, and creating a hurdle wouldn't encourage that. I also think part of the initial motivation for many working guys to come here is a marketing component; only once they've been here a while do they discover its other virtues. Lastly, while it might be compelling to watch, like a train wreck, I think an escort only forum without the moderating effect of clients and other posters might get really ugly really quick.

 

Kevin Slater

[jimboivyo]

I have no problem with having two separate forums or one forum altogether. One should bear in mind that most who come on this Forum are anonymous figures except escorts, who are semipublic figures. An anonymous poster is "free" to say everything he wants, even damage an escort's reputation and come back with a new handle and a "fresh start". And there are those who come here with a personal agenda even though they say don't have one.

 

true words spoken steven

[+ WilliamM]

I'm also ok with bouncing capriciously if it saves the moderators time and effort. If I don't invite someone back to my dinner parties, I don't feel a need to explain to them or others. Their presence was no longer required, is all.

 

Kevin Slater

 

The problem with your approach is that often people are unaware why members are on time out...partly because the specfic thread is no longer available to read. I would not think it even slightly compares with a dinner party invitation.

 

I have posted on over-moderated forums. It is not easy. I almost have to read the rules every time before I post. It can also become boring, because everyone must be so careful. I guess everyone may have slightly different opinions on what a Gentlemen's Club is on the Internet. But, it is possible that the loudmouths serve a real function here...a lesson on how not to behave. I know that is an unpopular thought. However, I believe we should really explore this subject. Daddy and the moderators deserve a huge amount of credit. But, I think this discussion needs to move beyond just congratulating Daddy.

[Xander]

How about a system that allows users to thumb up or thumb down certain users a certain number of times per week dictated by their sum of thumb up and down. It would then notify the person who gave them a thumb up or a thumb down so the person could figure out why what they said was perceived as being bad.

 

The running average would then be displayed next to the user's avatar.

 

 

There are a lot of forum extensions that do this. I think it's a step in the right direction!

[Scorpio]

How about a system that allows users to thumb up or thumb down certain users a certain number of times per week dictated by their sum of thumb up and down. It would then notify the person who gave them a thumb up or a thumb down so the person could figure out why what they said was perceived as being bad.

 

The running average would then be displayed next to the user's avatar.

 

 

There are a lot of forum extensions that do this. I think it's a step in the right direction!

 

Earlier versions of the forum had a rating system of sorts...where poster's posted ratings and comments in a member's profile. That got more than a little vicious and was disabled.

[Xander]

Earlier versions of the forum had a rating system of sorts...where poster's posted ratings and comments in a member's profile. That got more than a little vicious and was disabled.

 

Oh. Hmm.

 

Maybe we should call the dog whisperer.

[cany10011]

I believe that we all share the same feeling that Daddy and his forum is a valuable asset and has been instrumental in helping those of us who enjoy hiring, a vehicle for discussing escorts and other gay related topics of interest. I truly look forward to logging on to see the news and questions on this forum. Of late, the bickering and cattiness however, is sometimes palpable and for those of us sometimes on the sidelines, it’s like watching a car accident or wrestling match….

 

I feel awkward putting this forth because most of it is common sense (and we are all adults) for carrying oneself in a discussion blog but I’ve paraphrased/slightly edited some of the rules from another discussion group I belong to (one that focuses on antiques).

1. When expressing your opinion, use the same level courtesy as if you were speaking face to face, and focus on the issue at hand. Even if you disagree, state your point and remain respectful.

2. Remember that your opinions may not be shared by everyone. Be a good friend. Use tact and do not write anything that could be hurtful.

3. There is not always a right answer. You do not always have to have the final word. Threads may remain open and issues can be resolved later when more information/experience is available.

4. Any defamatory, profane, racist or disrespectful messages will not be tolerated, as are postings supporting or defaming any religious or political group.

5. Create a pleasant reading environment. Write your posts in full sentences and use proper grammar.

 

It’s funny that some of the same rules used when discussing an antiquity or artifact can be used to discussing escorts or anything for that matter. The only thing is on that website, there is no real anonymity. When you register as a paying member (with credit card info), your full name is posted. People even post pictures of their vacations to museums or pictures of their family members.

 

Here, in Daddys’ forum, we are shielded by the anonymity and our handles, so that may give some individuals free reign to be less than respectful . Anonymity is an important issue here especially given the dubious nature of our discourse. So I’m not sure how to skirt around that issue except to bring these suggestions to the fore for discussion and some consensus so we can enjoy each other’s company in discussing things that we often don’t discuss with our friends (at least for me).

 

 

 

 

true words spoken steven

[Guest countryboywny]

I'm totally in support of a more "gentlemenly" Gentlemen's Club. I have a particular aversion to posters

who post on a thread for no other purpose than to disrupt the conversation, insult/bully someone or

to force his/her beliefs or perceptions on everyone else. I'm a big believer in the "if you don't have anything

nice to say...don't say anything." Of course, if you have a differing opinion, you should be free to post it. When

doing so you should use "I" statements. If you don't agree with someone, don't post that he/she is stupid, ignorant or

somehow allude that his/her opinion is less valuable than your own. Post something like "I feel differently about this and

here's why.." making no reference to anyone else. I think it's better than "You don't know what you're talking about", or,

"You are wrong" or "You're stupid/ignorant..."

 

It is my nature to make jokes and love good-natured ribbing. If you're light heartedly "busting" on someone, always end your

comment with a smiley face or a laughing face. Remember, people can't see your face or hear your voice to make that

assumption and be offended. If you're making a private joke with someone, maybe a "PJ" notation or saying it's a private

joke would be helpful. Snide or "snarky" remarks are never acceptable. Always be respectful to other people.

 

Always remember that this is a diverse community and we all have different reasons for participating, we all have

different tastes and desires, we hire for different reasons, etc. If someone is singing the praises of an escort that

you find undesireable, there's no need to post that you don't like his "type" or you think he's unacceptable. Different

strokes for different folks applies here and unless you know something FACTUAL that the poster should know, positive or

negative, then you should express it as an affirmation or warning. Avoid opinions and hearsay, only knowledge

that you personally have and gained from a personal experience. Avoid starting/promoting rumors and inuendo because

it'll come back to you and harm your own credibility here.

 

These are just my opinions and not meant to lecture anyone. While I sure try not to, I have been guilty of some of the things

that I write not to do. I'm human and sometimes I react emotionally, especially when I (maybe too harshly) jump to my or someone

else's defense when I have misinterpreted the intention of a post. If I do it, I apologize for it.

 

One other thing I try to do is to be understanding of newbies who come here to get information. I know

they ask questions that have been asked a million times before, etc. I try to remember I was new once.

 

I know this is too long, and if you read it through, I appreciate it. Maybe you have learned a little more about me.

[seeker630]

Daddy,

 

I agree that the conduct on here sometimes gets out of hand. I think that most of us who come here post respectfully and very rarely in a hurtful manner, and this forum, with its diversity of posters (clients, escorts, lookie loos, old hands, newbies, fans, critics, hell, even straight folk) is an invaluable part of their lives. And then there are the troublemakers, the ones who enjoy dropping bombs, picking fights, and refuse to walk away once one is started.

 

This forum is your domain. You have the right to host one group in the living room and another in the kitchen. Like Juan, I would find that less interesting. I'd prefer to see you (and the moderators) disinvite the troublemakers instead. This is not a free speech issue. This is your house, not a public venue: you can invite or kick out whom you chose. The forum exists solely because of your good will. It's my understanding that a few easily identifiable posters regularly abuse your benevolence and drag the party down for all of us. Why not give them a warning then the boot when it's clear that some poster is intent on bullying like you mention? Others claim that such a party lacks diversity; I say I'd rather have fewer louts and more substance than a drunken brawl each time I attend.

 

Kevin Slater

 

I think this sums up my own views as well. I think there is value in having both escorts and clients contributing in the same forums. I also favor requiring a certain amount of respect for others. That doesn't mean we can't disagree with each other - but we can do so with mutual respect & civility.

 

I don't favor a 'minimum requirement of having submitted reviews - I think the forums can be valuable for those who have yet to hire.

[gnosvos]

I think this is an invaluable forum and I'd hate to see it disappear as a resource, I really do value the great amount of information that's on here. And as a somewhat newbie/part-time lurker, bringing my perspective in, I believe that some more civility would be welcome. I think for the most part discussion here is well-balanced, but as any forum there are those with an axe to grind.

 

Speaking for myself, when I first joined and started posting in the community, I was very happy to try to be active in discussion as much as I could be. Unfortunately, I seem to have joined at a time when multiple new people joined and there was outright fingerpointing that some of these new people must be duplicates. Nothing was declared at me, but the level of suspicion espoused in several threads eventually made me grow wary and stop posting (I'm sure that must have confirmed suspicions for some but that is not my worry). I've been a member of many online forums dating back to the early 90s, and I've seen the hostility and have grown tired of it.

 

Regardless, I still visit the forum from time to time and hope to post when I think I can add value to something, I'm still a 'virgin' on this subject matter. I've seen communities crumble from negative hijacking of general discussion, and this really should be just a place of positive enlightenment and education. It seems like the atmosphere is a little better right now than when I first joined so I'm hopeful. Thanks Daddy for a great place to discuss these subjects, I hope it's around for many years to come.

[Bart]

For years on this forum I have commented to posters that I am appalled how they treat gentlemen when they care to post on the forum. I have met some specifically because they post here and find them interesting, yes I hire besides sex. I have always wanted to hire Maxellsmart but he never provides a link of course he is on timeout now. To me if for no other reason than to get the perspective from the other side and the different approaches gentlemen take to the business. This issue has been around for years, for the most part since HooBoy's death. For several years Benjamin Nicholas was the target and some still today have issues for some reason.

 

I definitely think having both groups together is the only logically way to handle things. The question or thought I have is there a methodology for posters to complain about no shows, both posters who are clients and gentlemen. You dont want reviews in the forum but for issues such as no shows there is no venue available. When someone is asking about a gentleman and you have had issues possibly we can recommend using the private message. That some posters will not accept a private message they have it closed.

 

Also I have brought this up before I do think we could de-escalate a situation if there was limit on how many times you can post on a thread. I mean most of the nasty ones you start getting posters going back and forth.

 

Another point I have read that you do know when some one is posing as two different people from the same IP address okay cant you just say no you are on time out and you can not create a new name, I believe you authorize it and if they do then the old one is deactivated. I mean I use to be augustman, but things arose and had to kill him off, although my review handle is still out there augustclipper. But I never posted as both Bart and Augustman.

 

Have moderators shut down threads sooner. I have learned a great deal from this forum, HooBoy was where I went when I first thought about hiring over 12 years ago. It helped me figure out what I am doing and where to start.

 

Look at how many gentlemen no longer participate, they check in but dont log in-David, SF, Romann, Devon Hunter, Andrew D, Ben Nicholas, just to name a few.

 

These are just some random thoughts.

[Scorpio]

...I have always wanted to hire Maxellsmart but he never provides a link of course he is on timeout now....

 

FYI: Max isn't on time-out. He just never returned when his week in time-out ended.

[Guest countryboywny]

I had another thought, a question to Daddy:

If a poster sees a derogatory, unnecessary or "snarky" remark, should he hit the alert button? or would this cause an "alert overload"? My thought is that if a nasty remark is made a moderator or Daddy can simply go in and delete the post, and warn the poster??

[+ overeasy]

As you can see by the limited number of my posts, I don't post a great deal. I do come here often to read and observe, but tend to limit my comments to those times when I feel really moved to do so or that I have something to contribute beyond what has already been conveyed by others. I have lurked for a while and participated for a while. I have seen the ugly and the truly great. I have had communications that have aided me in eventual hires as well as to keep me from maybe disastrous ones. Daddy, I really feel that the mix is important. I would be sorry to see that disrupted. Common courtesy has become a more and more precious commodity in all of our interactions. Just as we do not condone that in our in-person activities, we should, as a group not condone it here. I just wish I were wise enough to advise on how to best to get there.