The definition of discretion

[Michael Wayne]

I do not mean how Mr. Webster defines it. I do mean how you define it in term of the BIZ. It seems to have been changing and evolving lately. DISCRETION is the PRIME DIRECTIVE in the biz especially when the client is married or partnered. I extend my definition of discretion even to my SINGLE clients to be careful. How do you as a client define discretion? How do you as an escort define discretion? What is your policy as an escort and what is your expectation as a client? Can/should an escort ever contact a client? When I tour around the country guys always ask me to contact them when I am coming to their city. Something about that just bothers me and it always seem more like HUSTLING than escorting. I am a terrible hustler (true confessions here) but one of the best male escorts ever (humility right?) what is the difference? When a client contacts me I have supreme and total confidence that he thinks I am hot and he wants me! now! no doubt. With this in mind in my ads I usually say I am , "one of the most discreet guys in the usa" but my idea of DISCRETION is OLD SCHOOL. When I see a client in public I go the other way and do not speak! I am not being rude as some say but I am being discreet. One more thing: my idea of discretion means I do not go to the gay bars/clubs in my local market. It makes clients nervous and becomes awkward. Everyone's thought are appreciated! http://www.rentboy.com/mikey9nola1 ps : one more question?????? If a person who poses as a client but is not really a client pulls a scam on you such as making you drive 40 minutes and not opening the door at his hotel and also does not even bother to contact you to cancel or apologize. Should a person like this who could escalate to violence against a provider be OUTED in public for the whole world to see as a way to protect providers or should we like lambs led to the slaughter just take it as a part of the biz....? Inquiring minds want to know?????

[ErieBear]

Responding as a client who is married & very much in the closet.

 

It makes me nervous when you threaten to out anyone (except physical violence). Because the doubt it puts in the back of my mind (right or wrong) says, "What happens if I piss him off? Would he out me then?" It may sound strange, but it causes a strange breach of trust. Now granted, I'm not the most trusting person in this area, so any little thing sets it off. And the other thing is this, even if you do warn other escorts in a very public fashion (i.e. posting the details on a website), do you check every client against that website? Do you have the time or energy to do so? If not, then is it really serving its purpose? Only you could answer that question.

 

As far as discretion in public, I used to belong to a 12-step group. Our basic belief was that if you see someone in public and they were with someone that you didn't know, you basically walked on by. We didn't avoid them or purposely go out of the way. Sometimes we would give a slight head nod that could be explained in a million different ways, but generally nothing more.

 

Hope this helps.

[josephga]

I find that some potential clients don't understand the difference between discretion and anonymous. To me discrete means I have your contact or other info needed to provide a session and I keep my trap shut about it and keep all info secure. Anonymous mean I have zero info, you come you go as if you never existed. I run into this allot with those who email and think I'll just book and email them my address without finalizing things on the phone. Or those who keep calling from unknown or blocked numbers thinking they can get an appointment. Most providers have a unblocked number policy. this policy is for our safety and security in case we are robbed or worse harmed or killed by a client. Oh and by the way a unblocked number is a number that can be traced back to you as the owner.

[+ Travis69]

If a person, client or escort/masseur, can't take 1 minute to call and cancel an appointment and show some respect then they forfeit their right to discretion.

[josephga]

If a person, client or escort/masseur, can't take 1 minute to call and cancel an appointment and show some respect then they forfeit their right to discretion.

 

I agree. whats funny I never save client info unless its a no show or someone that acted out of line on the table. Normally when a clients calls books shows, I delete my phone history at the end of the day.

I keep no contact info on clients once the session ends. unless it's a no show or someone I don't want back and those stay in the phone. I don't owe those types discretion

[+ Travis69]

And the other thing is this, even if you do warn other escorts in a very public fashion (i.e. posting the details on a website), do you check every client against that website? Do you have the time or energy to do so? If not, then is it really serving its purpose?

 

A quick googling of the number will show you if they are on any "no-show" website. Takes 1 minute.

[bigvalboy]

I for one am completely on board with ErieBear. I to did the whole 12 step thing, and discretion was always paramount to almost anything else discussed. For me being a gay man, while I am out to most everyone in my life, there is family, were it is never discussed. They respect my private life and have never asked or inquired about anything. A Discussion on the subject would upset most everyone as they are all very conservative and religious, but their love for me seems to override their personal feelings and so we just put that subject on the back burner. For me this works well, and my relationship with my family is close and loving.

 

The other day after seeing an escort for dinner, we had made plans for the weekend. I left and went to my sisters house to see the Nephews. I came into the kitchen, dropped my phone on the counter along with keys and sunglasses and began watching a movie with the little guy. My phone rang and my Nephew who is 12 jumped up to answer it for me. The call was an email that the escort sent me, it was a picture of his 'cock'. As turned I saw my nephew starring at my phone, I quickly grabbed it from him and saw the picture. My Nephew had not been able to see exactly what the picture was, but I was furious at the escort for sending something that anyone could have seen. I immediately sent him a very strong email and severed our relationship.

 

Everyones life is different and we all live our lives in various stages that make them sometimes complicated socially. I do not judge those who, for reason that are not my business are in the closet with family or co-workers. For me it is a matter of respect to other people...Live and let live!!

[tom1980]

Responding as a client who is married & very much in the closet.

 

It makes me nervous when you threaten to out anyone (except physical violence). Because the doubt it puts in the back of my mind (right or wrong) says, "What happens if I piss him off? Would he out me then?" It may sound strange, but it causes a strange breach of trust. Now granted, I'm not the most trusting person in this area, so any little thing sets it off. And the other thing is this, even if you do warn other escorts in a very public fashion (i.e. posting the details on a website), do you check every client against that website? Do you have the time or energy to do so? If not, then is it really serving its purpose? Only you could answer that question.

 

As far as discretion in public, I used to belong to a 12-step group. Our basic belief was that if you see someone in public and they were with someone that you didn't know, you basically walked on by. We didn't avoid them or purposely go out of the way. Sometimes we would give a slight head nod that could be explained in a million different ways, but generally nothing more.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I agree fully with EB. I have the same situation and I wouldn't want an escort or masseur to acknowledge me in public. You don't have to walk the other way. If I'm alone and feel comfortable then I might say hello, but that decision should be mine. Even if I appear to be alone, my wife and I often split up in stores to look at different things. To avoid this issue, I often hire when I travel or when someone comes to Dallas from somewhere else. I've seen a few of the locals (especially for massage), but I try to avoid situations that could prove awkward in the future.

 

As to Joseph's comments, I only schedule via email or text. I have a gmail account that is separate from my usual email account and a google voice number that links to that account. I don't understand how scheduling by phone provides any more security than email or text. I used to have a disposable cell phone and used it to make appointments, but I was always worried my wife would find it. But even with that phone, I bought it with cash and used prepaid visa cards that I bought with cash to add minutes. I'm not sure how me calling from that number rather than texting from my google voice account makes you safer.

[+ Travis69]

That escort sending you that photo was totally unprofessional on his part. I would have severed the relationship also.

[josephga]

I agree fully with EB. I have the same situation and I wouldn't want an escort or masseur to acknowledge me in public. You don't have to walk the other way. If I'm alone and feel comfortable then I might say hello, but that decision should be mine. Even if I appear to be alone, my wife and I often split up in stores to look at different things. To avoid this issue, I often hire when I travel or when someone comes to Dallas from somewhere else. I've seen a few of the locals (especially for massage), but I try to avoid situations that could prove awkward in the future.

 

As to Joseph's comments, I only schedule via email or text. I have a gmail account that is separate from my usual email account and a google voice number that links to that account. I don't understand how scheduling by phone provides any more security than email or text. I used to have a disposable cell phone and used it to make appointments, but I was always worried my wife would find it. But even with that phone, I bought it with cash and used prepaid visa cards that I bought with cash to add minutes. I'm not sure how me calling from that number rather than texting from my google voice account makes you safer.

 

 

Thats why i said my definition of a unblocked number is a number that can be traced back, example verizon at&t. No system is perfect. In my business its a little different. I put massage therapy in the same box as with dr's and dentist there is absolutely no reason for a person to have to hide purchasing a massage. Like i said in another thread women normally only get upset if a female is performing the massage and rarely question it if the providers male. once I change my business model in july I think I'll a difference

[robberbaron4u]

Plainly put, in the "business", "discretion" implies there will be no "kiss and tell". I trust the brevity of my statement suffices to please all. . .

[+ nycman]

OK, let’ assume this isn’t one big “let’s start a thread to justify my outing of a

client in another thread”…which is unfortunately exactly what it is….

 

I’m a single, out, adult gay male. Nonetheless, discretion is paramount. I value

my privacy in all aspects of my life. If an escort disclosed private information

about any client, to anyone, under any circumstance, I would never hire that

person. Period.

 

Yes, you can make up scenarios where a Nancy Drew escort uncovers an axe

wielding secret society of escort murdering clients. That’s not what we’re talking

about. Trying to take the argument to that extreme just makes you look bad and

suggests that you think we’re too stupid to see through the smoke screen.

 

Let's call a spade a spade...

 

Someone stood you up...and you got pissed...and you did something stupid.

 

Say you're sorry and that you understand your mistake, and let's move on already....

 

Now to answer the questions...

 

Social interactions outside a planned meeting are always tricky. I personally

would never have a problem with an escort flashing a quick smile to say hello.

I do understand that this may be considered inappropriate by other clients

however. I once was on a gay cruise, and there was a well-known escort

on that cruise that I had hired more than once. He completely ignored me the entire

week. I will admit that I was a little offended that even when we passed in the

hallways with no one else around for miles, that he didn’t even acknowledge my

presence. Nonetheless, I appreciated his dedication to absolute discretion.

 

I think it is fine to notify clients via email or text that you are in town, if they’ve

clearly stated its OK ahead of time. If an escort hasn’t asked me first and makes

unsolicited contact with me, they are relegated to my spam filter and off of my

hiring list without a second though.

 

Hope that helps clarify your apparent confusion over discretion.

[jimboivyo]

funny, no one ever mentions the amount of private direct messaging here that is anything but discretionary. thats where the worst of it takes place.

[+ Travis69]

Mikey - The blacklistednow website is the proper place to put information about no-shows. That's what it is there for and the place to do it, if you want to help other escorts. It has been referenced many times on this forum over the years and it is well known.

[Guy Fawkes]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/11/2/08ad5659-d673-414a-9be5-d1e67f819106.jpg

 

If a person, client or escort/masseur, can't take 1 minute to call and cancel an appointment and show some respect then they forfeit their right to discretion.

[+ Travis69]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/11/2/08ad5659-d673-414a-9be5-d1e67f819106.jpg

 

Why do you disagree?

[Guest JackF]

I saw your comments on this topic on another thread, Mikey, so I will also give my .02 in the hopes of helping and not getting "torched" as a result.

When I see clients, whether it's the first or twentieth time, they typically ask me to contact them again whenever I'm in the area. If they do not mention it during the appointment, I usually will either ask at the end if it's ok that I email them or I wait until I send a follow-up email to them about our time together. I like to get feedback on the appointment - what I can do to improve, help them specifically, be better, etc. and I will usually mention that in the email as well. I've never had anyone say "no" and I would never randomly call someone unannounced.

Often times, when with family, studies, school, work, friends, etc. I cannot answer, which is why I prefer email contact. I typically will email those who ask to be contacted when I make my next trip to see if they are interested or can schedule time with me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I would never ever ever ever send a text dick pic to someone, you never know where they may be, if they have the phone, if it's sitting on the desk top in a meeting. That would be VERY awkward for them to explain and I would never want to put someone in that situation, let alone have that happen to me!

 

As far as seeing clients out: If that ever happens I'd be super discrete or not say anything at all other than a nod. Never know who I'm with or who they are with and again, I don't want to put anyone in a weird situation. I also expect the same treatment.

I too now require a phone call confirmation to help firm things up in the event anything happens and to help give both of us some more peace of mind. Some people also require it too, or clients request a phone call because they don't want someone that sounds feminine. I prefer to schedule a time to call rather than get called out of the blue, but that's just me.

 

Hope that helps....

[tom1980]

Why do you disagree?

 

I can't speak for Daddy, but I'll tell you why I disagree. I often work late and do not know until mid or late afternoon that I will be working until midnight or later. It isn't uncommon for my boss to come into my office at 4:00 and tell me to follow her to a conference room where I'm stuck working with several others on an assignment for the rest of the night. It would be very difficult to get away from everyone else to let the escort know I can't make it. Fortunately I never have had this happen when I've scheduled an appointment, but it certainly could have. Maybe if I sent you a message as soon as I was by myself again, then I could explain what happened but would you have published my info in the meantime? Granted, my reason for disagreeing with you is that I can envision circumstances where your policy would hurt me, but I don't think that makes it any less valid. I'm a pretty nice guy and I try to be respectful of others. I wouldn't feel respected if you reported me for something I could not avoid. And there are numerous other possibilities. Maybe the client is traveling and got stuck on a plane so that he can't call. Maybe he got stuck somewhere without cell reception. Maybe he's in athe car withand his wife or another family member unexpectedly. The point is that simply not showing for an appointment doesn't rise to the level of bad behavior that I think should be required for outing somebody. I'm sure others disagree with me, but I have a lot to lose and would never meet an escort who I thought might out me over a simple misunderstanding.

[seeker630]

ps : one more question?????? If a person who poses as a client but is not really a client pulls a scam on you such as making you drive 40 minutes and not opening the door at his hotel and also does not even bother to contact you to cancel or apologize. Should a person like this who could escalate to violence against a provider be OUTED in public for the whole world to see as a way to protect providers or should we like lambs led to the slaughter just take it as a part of the biz....? Inquiring minds want to know?????

Sorry Mikey - the way you've loaded the question makes it clear that you're really looking for validation for your actions, IMHO. You haven't even met the guy or reported any kinds of threatening actions or speech but you keep bringing up the idea of 'escalation to violence'.

[Scorpio]

OK, let’ assume this isn’t one big “let’s start a thread to justify my outing of a

client in another thread”…which is unfortunately exactly what it is….

 

I’m a single, out, adult gay male. Nonetheless, discretion is paramount. I value

my privacy in all aspects of my life. If an escort disclosed private information

about any client, to anyone, under any circumstance, I would never hire that

person. Period.

 

Yes, you can make up scenarios where a Nancy Drew escort uncovers an axe

wielding secret society of escort murdering clients. That’s not what we’re talking

about. Trying to take the argument to that extreme just makes you look bad and

suggests that you think we’re too stupid to see through the smoke screen.

 

Let's call a spade a spade...

 

Someone stood you up...and you got pissed...and you did something stupid.

 

Say you're sorry and that you understand your mistake, and let's move on already....

 

 

Sorry Mikey - the way you've loaded the question makes it clear that you're really looking for validation for your actions, IMHO. You haven't even met the guy or reported any kinds of threatening actions or speech but you keep bringing up the idea of 'escalation to violence'.

 

I consign both these post. My thoughts exactly.

[raulgmanzo]

Tom makes excellent points.

 

I happen to believe that EVEN if the client SEEMS to be an asshole his privacy must be respected.

 

Recently I was scammed badly by a prankster. Tricked into renting a car even.

But it turns out that the phone he used to make the fake appointment had been stolen.

 

If I outed the "client" I would have been potentially outing the innocent victim who had his phone stolen.

Maybe that victim was also hiring on the side. My outing his number would be coincidentally outing him.

 

Call me uptight but I think we escorts must honor discretion except in the most dire and dangerous of circumstances.

 

Now when it comes to preventing serious harm then all bets are off.

For example if my client stops breathing then I am calling 911 discretion be damned.

 

I guess I see these things somewhat like Asimovs Robot rules.

Cause no harm to the client.

Respect his privacy unless doing so violates the first rule etc.

 

Raul

 

I can't speak for Daddy, but I'll tell you why I disagree. I often work late and do not know until mid or late afternoon that I will be working until midnight or later. It isn't uncommon for my boss to come into my office at 4:00 and tell me to follow her to a conference room where I'm stuck working with several others on an assignment for the rest of the night. It would be very difficult to get away from everyone else to let the escort know I can't make it. Fortunately I never have had this happen when I've scheduled an appointment, but it certainly could have. Maybe if I sent you a message as soon as I was by myself again, then I could explain what happened but would you have published my info in the meantime? Granted, my reason for disagreeing with you is that I can envision circumstances where your policy would hurt me, but I don't think that makes it any less valid. I'm a pretty nice guy and I try to be respectful of others. I wouldn't feel respected if you reported me for something I could not avoid. And there are numerous other possibilities. Maybe the client is traveling and got stuck on a plane so that he can't call. Maybe he got stuck somewhere without cell reception. Maybe he's in athe car withand his wife or another family member unexpectedly. The point is that simply not showing for an appointment doesn't rise to the level of bad behavior that I think should be required for outing somebody. I'm sure others disagree with me, but I have a lot to lose and would never meet an escort who I thought might out me over a simple misunderstanding.

[+ Travis69]

I can't speak for Daddy, but I'll tell you why I disagree. I often work late and do not know until mid or late afternoon that I will be working until midnight or later. It isn't uncommon for my boss to come into my office at 4:00 and tell me to follow her to a conference room where I'm stuck working with several others on an assignment for the rest of the night. It would be very difficult to get away from everyone else to let the escort know I can't make it. Fortunately I never have had this happen when I've scheduled an appointment, but it certainly could have. Maybe if I sent you a message as soon as I was by myself again, then I could explain what happened but would you have published my info in the meantime? Granted, my reason for disagreeing with you is that I can envision circumstances where your policy would hurt me, but I don't think that makes it any less valid. I'm a pretty nice guy and I try to be respectful of others. I wouldn't feel respected if you reported me for something I could not avoid. And there are numerous other possibilities. Maybe the client is traveling and got stuck on a plane so that he can't call. Maybe he got stuck somewhere without cell reception. Maybe he's in athe car withand his wife or another family member unexpectedly. The point is that simply not showing for an appointment doesn't rise to the level of bad behavior that I think should be required for outing somebody. I'm sure others disagree with me, but I have a lot to lose and would never meet an escort who I thought might out me over a simple misunderstanding.

 

Perhaps tell your boss, or whoever you are with, "excuse me I need to take 1 minute and cancel an appointment". I assume you would call your wife and tell her you are working late. Does your boss allow you to go to the bathroom or make calls/emails? Also if the escort/masseur posted your information right away, they could always take the information down once you call to explain. Most escorts/masseurs don't do it within the first 5 minutes of you not showing. I just think it is horrible that some clients think so little of the person that they don't feel the need to show them respect and just call and cancel the appointment. It is common courtesy.

[tom1980]

Perhaps tell your boss, or whoever you are with, "excuse me I need to take 1 minute and cancel an appointment". Also if the escort/masseur posted your information right away, they could always take the information down once you call to explain. Most escorts/masseurs don't do it within the first 5 minutes of you not showing. I just think it is horrible that some clients think so little of the person that they don't feel the need to show them respect and just call and cancel the appointment. It is common courtesy.

 

I agree that a client should call immediately to cancel an appointment when he finds out he cannot make it. That is the best and most courteous/respectful practice. I still disagree, however, that not showing up without something more should cause one to incur the punishment of being outed. Punishment should fit the crime and potentially ruining someone's life is not an appropriate response to lack of courtesy or even disrespect. Again, this is just my opinion and I'm sure others disagree. As for telling my boss I need to make a call, I've done that before. She stands there and listens as I tell my wife I have to work late. If my wife starts talking and I stand there listening, my boss will tap her foot impatiently or point to her watch to let me know I need to end the call. And yes, I am looking for a new job.

[+ purplekow]

I’m a single, out, adult gay male. Nonetheless, discretion is paramount. I value

my privacy in all aspects of my life. If an escort disclosed private information

about any client, to anyone, under any circumstance, I would never hire that

person. Period.

 

. I once was on a gay cruise, and there was a well-known escort

on that cruise that I had hired more than once. He completely ignored me the entire

week. I will admit that I was a little offended that even when we passed in the

hallways with no one else around for miles, that he didn’t even acknowledge my

presence. Nonetheless, I appreciated his dedication to absolute discretion.

 

.

Maybe he just didn't recognize you. I deal with a lot of clients and am recognized all the time at local restaurants and the like. When people say hello to me, I am always polite, but must admit to being totally lost as to who they are more than half the time. When my wife was alive, she and I agreed, that if someone came up to me and I did not know who it was, I would give her hand a squeeze and she would then say something to the effect: "My husband's manners fail him, I am Deb, his wife and who are you?"

 

As to meeting escorts in public, if I were to be acknowledged, and then questioned about it, I would simply say he was a colleague and move on.

[josephga]

Just too be clear I have never posted the phone number of a bad client or a no show client on any board. I have never called around other massage therapist and tell them about it or share info with them. I actually have no contact with other massage therapist. I do save their number to my phone as a do not take and black list them from my own services. I use too offer referrals to 2 other massage therapist when I was busy but they never returned the favor or as much as a thank you. So I pretty much have nothing to do with the other providers here.