Murdered Detroit neurosurgeon was in relationship with male killer.

[JB_Studio38]

1 hour ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Even though you admit that you don't know anything about the specifics of this particular case, you type four paragraphs of hypothetical "what-ifs" and "based on my experience" nonsense to try to explain the motives of Dr. Hoover and Burks.  Based on your vast knowledge of the older wealthy white man/younger poor black man dynamic, you can pick apart exactly what went on here..... without knowing any of the details of the case.

This was simply a cold-blooded murder and robbery. Anything more is baseless speculation on your part. It was committed by an animal who has no value for human life, who had killed before and gotten away with it. Despite what you may think, this murder has no relation to BLM, women's rights, black/white dynamics, or gay mental health access. 

BTC
🤡

I know enough about the case to know what dynamic it likely was: and cold blooded murder it doesn’t sound like, especially if 4,000 text messages were exchanged over a period of time. I don’t even need to know all the details because I see it all the fucking time. Also, as I said in my other thread: I know a friend who lives in Detroit, who has been actively following the story and discussed a bit of info on it the other day. The very fact this guy was patronizing Palmer Park to pick up trade, says a lot. 

I also didn’t say this case had anything to do with those things you related it to, however it still plays a part. What’s wrong with pointing out that the “M4M” community isn’t always wrapped too tight or innocent and could use counseling? Are you saying this whole thing just happened because of ONE person and one person only? I doubt it. I don’t know everything that went down, and YOU don’t know everything that went down either. You don’t know what kind of requests he was making to the “thug boy”. Never will because he took the guilty plea, which avoided lengthy revelations that would probably make E-Files look like a lullaby 🤣 

That’s the whole point I’m making. That’s why even we as escorts, screen, use Blacklist apps, etc. That’s why clients have access to reviews and sites like this. Vetting who is allowed into our space is a healthy and important thing to do. Having weird guys off the street who’s “handsome” is not. 
 

Edit: and you can keep rolling your eyes but, I know it’s easier to view it as the bad guy/good guy versus accepting that the other party played a role in the scenario as well. 


 

When emotional suppression becomes your norm, you’ll find ways to numb. Food. Alcohol. Hustle. Control. “Helping.”

Codependency is exhausting. And when you can’t stop giving to others, you’ll often turn to something to soothe what you’re not receiving.

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:49 PM by JB_Studio38

[Reggyreg56]

2 hours ago, Luv2play said:

As it turned out, rough trade (RT). Back when being gay was illegal and there was no Rentmen, gays solicited RT  in the rougher parts of town (often servicemen) and took their chances on getting roughed up or worse. Sal Mineo comes to mind. 
These days some people still do this and this doctor appears to be one of them. 

Yes I totally agree with you. He gambled and unfortunately he lost.

[TJMS]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the magnificent home the victim resided in:

 

150 W Boston Boulevard

[Luv2play]

4 minutes ago, TJMS said:

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the magnificent home the victim resided in:

 

150 W Boston Boulevard

Thanks. Up thread I opined this is how billionaires live and was rebuked by one or more posters that this was not so. Just mere millionaires. Another poster said the house was in an area that Henry Ford and his contemporaries favoured. Presumably this was before Grosse Point became popular amongst the rich. 
In any case the house is extravagant and reminiscent of the Gilded Age. 

[Luv2play]

28 minutes ago, TJMS said:

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the magnificent home the victim resided in:

 

150 W Boston Boulevard

And this guy was a doctor and not from a monied family. Interesting comment on the health care system.

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

3 hours ago, JB_Studio38 said:

.Edit: and you can keep rolling your eyes but, I know it’s easier to view it as the bad guy/good guy versus accepting that the other party played a role in the scenario as well. 

You are correct. And Bozo will keep rolling his eyes when you make comments like the above.
Only the bizarro world of conspiracies did Dr. Hoover - a highly successful, brilliant, and beloved neurosurgeon - "play a role in the scenario". Truly sick and disgusting.

And before you respond, remember that other COM members, including potential clients, will be reading all about your theory that Dr. Hoover played a role in his own murder.
That's not a good look for you.

BTC
🤡

[LookingAround]

So many absurd comments by self anointed experts who know zero facts about the case. 

[TJMS]

"And this guy was a doctor and not from a monied family. Interesting comment on the health care system."

LOL! Not a comment on our healthcare system at all. Detroit has a really depressed real estate market, so many folks in other professions and walks of life could have bought this place, including professors!

[Luv2play]

31 minutes ago, TJMS said:

"And this guy was a doctor and not from a monied family. Interesting comment on the health care system."

LOL! Not a comment on our healthcare system at all. Detroit has a really depressed real estate market, so many folks in other professions and walks of life could have bought this place, including professors!

And I suppose these professors could also afford to pay for the maintenance on such a place with their multi million dollar salaries.

[JB_Studio38]

9 hours ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

You are correct. And Bozo will keep rolling his eyes when you make comments like the above.
Only the bizarro world of conspiracies did Dr. Hoover - a highly successful, brilliant, and beloved neurosurgeon - "play a role in the scenario". Truly sick and disgusting.

And before you respond, remember that other COM members, including potential clients, will be reading all about your theory that Dr. Hoover played a role in his own murder.
That's not a good look for you.

BTC
🤡

Again, if you want to stay ignorant and ignore the writings on the…wall of facts, that’s on you. And you’re damn right my theory says he played a role. Otherwise the scenario would have never happened. You mean to tell me, someone living in a mansion didn’t have ample security or at least a “safe person” on premise or on call to monitor during these escapades? Don’t use other people’s reading of the thread, to suppress the reality. That’s clownish. Which, I would expect from you 🤣 But regardless I’m going to say it like it appears. 
 

Where you are stuck at is: you think everything I’m saying is about him. I’m not talking just about him. The tragedy that happened, happened. It can’t be erased. The judge and jury already sealed his fate. 
 

What I’m talking about is the future and the present. And about how many clients and escorts get into these toxic dynamics. They’re never talked about because society prefers to talk about ICE, immigration rights, women’s rights, Black Lives Matter rights: but there’s not enough discussion about sex workers and clients rights. It can be talked about right here, but you hinder progress when you just want to talk about how they don’t look good together, or how the “escort” was a killer and the “client” was 100% innocent and couldn’t have avoided this in any possible way. 
 

And like I said in my other thread, and for the 100th time: the dude who killed him was likely schizo, toxic, and should have been avoided. No doubt. But, a person in his right mind (without Pnp or other vices at play), should have picked this up ahead of time. Again, idk what the specifics of the dynamic were, but I can assume the red flags 🚩 were all over.

 

[+ Italiano]

22 hours ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Nonsense! Your psychoanalytic babble and accusations of racism doesn't change the facts!
The victim, Dr. Devon Hoover,  was a highly successful neurosurgeon, a kind soul who was beloved in his community. His body was found in a crawl space in his home by police with 2 bullets in his head after a welfare check was performed when he failed to show up to visit his dying mother.

The perp, Desmond Burks, confessed to the murder. After he killed Dr. Hoover, he stole expensive jewelry from his home and made money transfers from the doctor's bank account and went on a wild shopping spree. He also confessed to a previous murder where he pummeled a fellow motorist to death in an act of road rage. At the sentencing, he smiled and smirked for the cameras while the grieving family sat in the courtroom and tearfully watched.

You state that there is "no blame on either side" and if we knew the "true story" "it would probably look very different than what the courts and media portray." No blame on either side? Really? Is there a moral equivalence between the neurosurgeon hiring an escort and the escort murdering him? Are there mitigating factors to this crime? What do you think the "true story" is? Did the doctor do something or say something that would have justified his murder? 

It is not racist to call a piece of human garbage a piece of human garbage. Despite what you may say or think, this cold blooded murder has absolutely NOTHING to do with BLM, women's rights, or mental health. This is an act of violence by a depraved human animal who will hopefully die in prison.

BTC
🤡

First EVER time in perhaps 15 years I am in agreement with you.

[TJMS]

"And I suppose these professors could also afford to pay for the maintenance on such a place with their multi million dollar salaries."

You obviously have not kept up on salaries of academics and administrators - many make as much or more than neurosurgeons for a lot less work

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

5 hours ago, JB_Studio38 said:

Again, if you want to stay ignorant and ignore the writings on the…wall of facts, that’s on you. And you’re damn right my theory says he played a role. Otherwise the scenario would have never happened. You mean to tell me, someone living in a mansion didn’t have ample security or at least a “safe person” on premise or on call to monitor during these escapades? Don’t use other people’s reading of the thread, to suppress the reality. That’s clownish. Which, I would expect from you 🤣 But regardless I’m going to say it like it appears. 
 

Where you are stuck at is: you think everything I’m saying is about him. I’m not talking just about him. The tragedy that happened, happened. It can’t be erased. The judge and jury already sealed his fate. 
 

What I’m talking about is the future and the present. And about how many clients and escorts get into these toxic dynamics. They’re never talked about because society prefers to talk about ICE, immigration rights, women’s rights, Black Lives Matter rights: but there’s not enough discussion about sex workers and clients rights. It can be talked about right here, but you hinder progress when you just want to talk about how they don’t look good together, or how the “escort” was a killer and the “client” was 100% innocent and couldn’t have avoided this in any possible way. 
 

And like I said in my other thread, and for the 100th time: the dude who killed him was likely schizo, toxic, and should have been avoided. No doubt. But, a person in his right mind (without Pnp or other vices at play), should have picked this up ahead of time. Again, idk what the specifics of the dynamic were, but I can assume the red flags 🚩 were all over.

 

 "Again, if you want to stay ignorant and ignore the writings on the…wall of facts,"

Bozo is the ignorant one? This coming from someone who formed his opinions and lectures others about a case he admits that he knows nothing about.  You have created a "wall of facts" without knowing anything about this case based solely on your knowledge of the older, wealthy white man/younger, poor black man dynamic. Of course your so-called "theory" is blown to bits with the example of Timothy Boham (white escort/white client) cited by @marylander1940 earlier in this thread.

"And you’re damn right my theory says he played a role. Otherwise the scenario would have never happened. You mean to tell me, someone living in a mansion didn’t have ample security or at least a “safe person” on premise or on call to monitor during these escapades?"

Again, you continue to repeat this bizarre claim that the doctor played a role in his own murder.

"Security"? A "safe person"? Really? When you (or any other provider) shows up at a client's doorstep, does he normally have "security" present? How about a "safe person" around to "monitor the escapades"?  Stupid Bozo . He's never hired security or asked a neighbor to drop by to act as a "safe person" to monitor the escapades. But Bozo is certain that other COM members will chime in to share their own stories of hiring security and safe persons.  Btw, all of the security in the world would not have helped Dr. Hoover when Burks showed up at his home for his scheduled appointment with a loaded revolver concealed in his jacket.

"The judge and jury already sealed his fate."

There was no jury. The lowlife coward took a plea to avoid a trial. In fact, he took a plea to both murders. But you get a pass on this one since you readily acknowledge that you know nothing about the case. 

."....society prefers to talk about ICE, immigration rights, women’s rights, Black Lives Matter rights: but there’s not enough discussion about sex workers and clients rights."

To quote Ronald Reagan, there you go again (smh). comparing ICE, BLM, immigration, women's rights to the "rights" of sex workers and their clients. Such mindless blather. Just as a reminder, outside of a few rural counties in Nevada, paying for sex in the US is illegal. If there no crime committed, those of us who hire have no rights (other than to leave a negative review). And the same for sex workers. And if you want to discuss mental health issues, that's why we have paid professionals like therapists, analysts, psychologists, and psychiatrists. You can discuss it with them.

"...you just want to talk about how they don’t look good together, or how the “escort” was a killer and the “client” was 100% innocent and couldn’t have avoided this in any possible way."

Desmond Burks is a cold-blooded murderer. Period. Why do you continue to make excuses for his actions? Your efforts to blur the lines in this case between perpetrator and victim is truly mind-boggling. And other than making the poor choice of hiring this POS, what role did the doctor play in his own murder? And please don't waste your time repeating that ridiculous assertion that the doctor should have hired security and/or had a safe person around to monitor the escapades. 

 "Again, idk what the specifics of the dynamic were, but I can assume the red flags 🚩 were all over."

Actually, you shouldn't assume it. And for someone who admits to knowing nothing about the case, you sure have a lot of wild and baseless opinions and see a lot of red flags.

This will likely be Bozo's last post in this case. If you don't get it by now, you never will. And all of your psychoanalytic babble doesn't change the facts. It only speaks volumes about your own mindset.

BTC
🤡

[Luv2play]

51 minutes ago, TJMS said:

"And I suppose these professors could also afford to pay for the maintenance on such a place with their multi million dollar salaries."

You obviously have not kept up on salaries of academics and administrators - many make as much or more than neurosurgeons for a lot less work

You obviously have not learned from the Epstein case that many professionals sucked up to him to gain money for their pet causes. These included professors, academics, university chancellors and more. If they were so well off why would they be seeking money from billionaires and their ilk?

[TJMS]

The average university president’s salary in the U.S. varies significantly depending on the type of institution, its endowment size, and its geographic region. Based on the most recent data from official salary disclosures and IRS filings, most public university presidents earn between $700,000 and $1.8 million annually, while private university presidents typically earn between $1 million and $5 million.

[TJMS]

I think they are able to afford Dr. Hoover's home in Detroit and maintain it. And what does Epstein have to do with this topic?

[marylander1940]

20 hours ago, Luv2play said:

As it turned out, rough trade (RT). Back when being gay was illegal and there was no Rentmen, gays solicited RT  in the rougher parts of town (often servicemen) and took their chances on getting roughed up or worse. Sal Mineo comes to mind. 
These days some people still do this and this doctor appears to be one of them. 

Yes, unfortunately still some folks look for the "diamond in the rough" or a cheaper rate from hustlers out of Craigslist, BP, and now Grindr instead of going to RM to hire professionals who do this for a living and want to keep on doing it. 

I'm not saying hiring is always safe when some folks do PNP or someone escorts out of desperation, but it's certainly safer hiring from a site that hast the name, credit card, address, IP address, etc. of the escort on file. 

Ps.: I'm aware that Craigslist and BP no longer get involved in this kind of services. Craigslist stopped the "personals" section because of this local murder. 

Woman Gets 24 Years in Murder of Lawyer at Donovan Hotel; 2nd Woman to Serve 6 Months in Connection With Case – NBC4 Washington

[JB_Studio38]

3 hours ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

 "Again, if you want to stay ignorant and ignore the writings on the…wall of facts,"

Bozo is the ignorant one? This coming from someone who formed his opinions and lectures others about a case he admits that he knows nothing about.  You have created a "wall of facts" without knowing anything about this case based solely on your knowledge of the older, wealthy white man/younger, poor black man dynamic. Of course your so-called "theory" is blown to bits with the example of Timothy Boham (white escort/white client) cited by @marylander1940 earlier in this thread.

"And you’re damn right my theory says he played a role. Otherwise the scenario would have never happened. You mean to tell me, someone living in a mansion didn’t have ample security or at least a “safe person” on premise or on call to monitor during these escapades?"

Again, you continue to repeat this bizarre claim that the doctor played a role in his own murder.

"Security"? A "safe person"? Really? When you (or any other provider) shows up at a client's doorstep, does he normally have "security" present? How about a "safe person" around to "monitor the escapades"?  Stupid Bozo . He's never hired security or asked a neighbor to drop by to act as a "safe person" to monitor the escapades. But Bozo is certain that other COM members will chime in to share their own stories of hiring security and safe persons.  Btw, all of the security in the world would not have helped Dr. Hoover when Burks showed up at his home for his scheduled appointment with a loaded revolver concealed in his jacket.

"The judge and jury already sealed his fate."

There was no jury. The lowlife coward took a plea to avoid a trial. In fact, he took a plea to both murders. But you get a pass on this one since you readily acknowledge that you know nothing about the case. 

."....society prefers to talk about ICE, immigration rights, women’s rights, Black Lives Matter rights: but there’s not enough discussion about sex workers and clients rights."

To quote Ronald Reagan, there you go again (smh). comparing ICE, BLM, immigration, women's rights to the "rights" of sex workers and their clients. Such mindless blather. Just as a reminder, outside of a few rural counties in Nevada, paying for sex in the US is illegal. If there no crime committed, those of us who hire have no rights (other than to leave a negative review). And the same for sex workers. And if you want to discuss mental health issues, that's why we have paid professionals like therapists, analysts, psychologists, and psychiatrists. You can discuss it with them.

"...you just want to talk about how they don’t look good together, or how the “escort” was a killer and the “client” was 100% innocent and couldn’t have avoided this in any possible way."

Desmond Burks is a cold-blooded murderer. Period. Why do you continue to make excuses for his actions? Your efforts to blur the lines in this case between perpetrator and victim is truly mind-boggling. And other than making the poor choice of hiring this POS, what role did the doctor play in his own murder? And please don't waste your time repeating that ridiculous assertion that the doctor should have hired security and/or had a safe person around to monitor the escapades. 

 "Again, idk what the specifics of the dynamic were, but I can assume the red flags 🚩 were all over."

Actually, you shouldn't assume it. And for someone who admits to knowing nothing about the case, you sure have a lot of wild and baseless opinions and see a lot of red flags.

This will likely be Bozo's last post in this case. If you don't get it by now, you never will. And all of your psychoanalytic babble doesn't change the facts. It only speaks volumes about your own mindset.

BTC
🤡

Yes, please let it be your last post on this topic: because all you want to do is keep saying the same thing like a broken record, versus even trying to understand what I’m talking about. And I never said I didn’t know nothing about the case. 
 

Instead of talking shit about someone else, like you always do: let’s talk about you. About how you’re in constant disagreement and create animosity with me and other posters. And how you say things to try and belittle someone.

Please, escort yourself out if all you doing is arguing and dismissing my opinion and experiences. And while we’re on the topic of doctors, you may want to be a bit more understanding that clown phobia is real: so your aggressive tone makes me wonder about you 🤔 At this point, don’t even speak to me if you going to have that attitude every time I post something. I was actually giving you credit for resurfacing this thread, but you’re so unappreciative that it didn’t fit your narrative…I take it back.

But overall, whether I know about the facts or not: what I do know is I’ve seen just about anything and everything in my 19 years in the industry. And I still haven’t seen it all. And that’s living in multiple cities and states. So it’s not fair to discredit my experience.

Edited Wednesday at 05:32 PM by JB_Studio38

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

2 hours ago, JB_Studio38 said:

Yes, please let it be your last post on this topic: because all you want to do is keep saying the same thing like a broken record, versus even trying to understand what I’m talking about. And I never said I didn’t know nothing about the case. 
 

Instead of talking shit about someone else, like you always do: let’s talk about you. About how you’re in constant disagreement and create animosity with me and other posters. And how you say things to try and belittle someone.

Please, escort yourself out if all you doing is arguing and dismissing my opinion and experiences. And while we’re on the topic of doctors, you may want to be a bit more understanding that clown phobia is real: so your aggressive tone makes me wonder about you 🤔 At this point, don’t even speak to me if you going to have that attitude every time I post something. I was actually giving you credit for resurfacing this thread, but you’re so unappreciative that it didn’t fit your narrative…I take it back.

But overall, whether I know about the facts or not: what I do know is I’ve seen just about anything and everything in my 19 years in the industry. And I still haven’t seen it all. And that’s living in multiple cities and states. So it’s not fair to discredit my experience.

Bozo took issue with your bizarre, baseless, and offensive comments. There is no need to make this personal.
When you are losing your argument, you attack your opponent with epithets? 

Community Guidelines #1: you may criticize a person's opinion but don't attack the person.

BTC
🤡

Edited Wednesday at 08:11 PM by BOZO T CLOWN

[Pd1_jap]

Y'all need to chill. Thanks to the posters giving us this valuable Intel. To the, "I must have the last word" crowd, is this really worth your time?

Edited Wednesday at 06:22 PM by Pd1_jap
Grammar

[JB_Studio38]

5 hours ago, Italiano said:

First EVER time in perhaps 15 years I am in agreement with you.

I know you were agreeing with Bozo, but nothing I said alluded to the DB guy being in the right by any means. I was simply saying there may have been some enabling going on, in clickable quote:

The text messages establish that Desmond Burks and Dr. Hoover were in an intimate relationship with one another and on occasion Desmond Burks would charge Dr. Hoover for sexual services.

So, all I was saying was: in my experience: it seems like there was muddying up of the roles and intent of meeting. If he wasn’t getting paid ALL the time, then was he even an escort? If he was “occasionally” getting paid, was it a relationship?

My point was, I’ve seen it many times: I’ve seen wealthy White and Jewish men who like the company of Black men very much: but they don’t always want to book an professional escort. Or they may not really know how to find good ones. On top of that, I’ve known some that keep a “tribe” of dudes in and out of their home and circle. This is why I no longer deal with guys who are reckless in their dealings like that, because it is a security issue. And I don’t want to end up being a suspect in a case where somebody else did something, and I get accused of it.

Nowadays, if I want to have a financial exchange with someone: I’m doing it professional 100%. I’m not just sorta dating, sorta having a sugar daddy, sorta being an escort. I even shared homes with a couple clients at times, and even though we would spend time together, there was never a muddy “we’re boyfriends, but you pay me also” situation. If that’s the case, the paid situation should be left entirely. 
 

Again, not saying I know all the facts about how it went down: but me and most of my gay friends know what’s up. In fact, I know a guy right now, who lives 10 miles away; commercial realtor, married with husband: but has random guys coming and going all the time. One of his party guys, is in a current legal dispute with my friend. Which I won’t discuss the details. Most people just get lucky and don’t have any bad incidents like this, but it still happens.

And there’s a lot of violence in the gay community that gets turned a blind eye, and never makes it to the media. That’s why I made the suggestions in regards. Regardless, the 2nd worst part of the case is the embarrassment and exposing of details. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:35 PM by JB_Studio38

[JB_Studio38]

18 hours ago, Pd1_jap said:

To the, "I must have the last word" crowd, is this really worth your time?

Technically no but, when it’s something that shows our community (gays/blacks) and the industry (some articles even calling the guy a “male prostitute”) in a negative light, I don’t mind spending extra time on it.

And when someone comes along touting how much human trash a person is: it doesn’t necessarily paint the chooser of the trash in a better light either. Especially considering it was an on going arrangement. And the question is, what was behind it that allowed it to continue? And how can the dynamic be better handled.

But if all that’s focused on is the crook versus the dynamic, it doesn’t necessarily fix the current and future problems that exist in these scenarios. That’s the whole point I was making.

Update: a friend of mine who was attending a court hearing, also came across a gay couple we know filing a restraining order against some “party twink” who they allowed into their mansion. We as a community have to understand if someone appears to be slimy, grimy, conniving: get them out of your peripheral. And people who fit the description, need to see a professional, or read some books. Otherwise:

 

Edited yesterday at 01:19 PM by JB_Studio38

[Pd1_jap]

Nothing says “I’m thriving” like turning a tragedy into a 40-reply audition for Mayor of Correct Opinions, complete with armchair forensics and a minor in moral gymnastics. Half the thread is people proving they’ve never met nuance, and the other half is people proving they can weaponize it. Anyway, congrats to everyone involved on winning the Internet Argument Championship—your prize is the exact same life you were avoiding when you opened the tab.