Egypt suing Netflix because of depiction of Cleopatra as black.

[marylander1940]

OP note: They're supposed to be upset about the depiction of Cleopatra as a woman of sub-Saharan origin... Does it really matter? 

Is skin color accuracy of the actors more important than acting, script, etc.? 

Egyptians complain over Netflix depiction of Cleopatra as black

WWW.BBC.COM

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A lawyer files a suit against Netflix, saying its docudrama aims to "distort the Egyptian identity".

Edited November 6, 2023 by marylander1940

[marylander1940]

 

[pubic_assistance]

I went to the CVS near me yesterday.

The Christmas decorations are out on the shelves.

All the Santas for sale are black. Even though there's barely any black people living in my neighborhood.

Inclusion is great but sometimes it's silly.

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

16 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I went to the CVS near me yesterday.

The Christmas decorations are out on the shelves.

All the Santas for sale are black. Even though there's barely any black people living in my neighborhood.

Inclusion is great but sometimes it's silly.

 

At least they're still recognizing Christmas and winter traditions.  That's becoming taboo now, too.

[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

At least they're still recognizing Christmas and winter traditions.  That's becoming taboo now, too.

No one says "Merry Christmas" in NYC. It's always "Happy Holiday"...which I don't really mind because half my friends aren't Christian anyway.

 

[mike carey]

The suit is a bit silly (although I can understand why an Egyptian government [any Egyptian government, not just the current one] might want to launch it). Any contemporary view of what the appearance was of an individual in that region in the first century BCE is not likely to be easily determined. There was a mixture of people from surrounding areas, and that would have included Nubians from not too far away, who were probably black, or at least darker-skinned than many modern day Egyptians and Arabs. That said, the ruling classes in Egypt at that time were largely Hellenic in language and probably ethnically as well (whatever that looked like) having arrived there in part as a result of Alexander's conquest of Egypt in the then relatively recent past. It would indeed be an own goal for the government if Netflix were to argue, and the court to accept, that Cleopatra was a Greek speaking woman who may well have been black.

[+ SirBillybob]

“Dodged that bullet, sorta.” ~ The Bangles

[marylander1940]

How did we go from Cleopatra to the "war on Christmas"?

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

How did we go from Cleopatra to the "war on Christmas"?

I agree with @mike careythat a modern audience will have trouble accurately accepting what people from the B.C.s actually liked like or sounded like, and that is nothing like any group of people that exist today.  We have trouble remembering the cultural norms, looks, and language spoken a century ago, much less from the B.C.s.  It is similar to people forgetting that Jesus was Jewish, or that St Nicholas is Nordic, etc..  Let's not even get started on what human ethnicity mermaids are!

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

It is similar to people forgetting that Jesus was Jewish

Jesus is the son of God.

Jewish on his mother's side...😉

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

22 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Jesus is the son of God.

Jewish on his mother's side...😉

 

My understanding is that Jews use the mother's lineage to determine if one is Jewish or not.  If mother is a Jew then child is a Jew, regardless of father's heritage.

I don't know if it would make a difference if Cleopatra were black on only her father's or mother's side.

[CuriousByNature]

I'm surprised by the assertion that she was black.  I understand that Nubia had ruled Egypt for around a century, and about 600 years before Cleopatra.  But I thought she was a Ptolemy, and descended from a Macedonian companion of Alexander the Great?  Contemporary representations of her and her immediate ancestors give no indication of a sub-Saharan genetic connection.   That said, I think it is ridiculous for a country to sue a production company over how an ancient figure is portrayed.  

[pubic_assistance]

30 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

That said, I think it is ridiculous for a country to sue a production company over how an ancient figure is portrayed.  

I've traveled extensively in Africa. There is a lot of bigotry from region to region, especially in Islamic North Africa about being associated with native black African cultures. So this doesn't surprise me.

Also Cleopatra isn't some ancient myth. We know very well who she was and who is included in her family tree.  Definitely not a black woman.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

I've traveled extensively in Africa. There is a lot of bigotry from region to region, especially in Islamic North Africa about being associated with native black African cultures. So this doesn't surprise me.

Also Cleopatra isn't some ancient myth. We know very well who she was and who is included in her family tree.  Definitely not a black woman.

New designation needed for Non-black African?  Similar to what we have now for Non-hispanic Asian, for example

[viewing ownly]

If Netflix counter-sues and wins, do they get the pyramid or mummy of their choosing?

[Ali Gator]

16 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Also Cleopatra isn't some ancient myth. We know very well who she was and who is included in her family tree.  Definitely not a black woman.

I'm surprised they don't have Cleopatra choosing her pronouns for the sake of diversity. 

[mike carey]

8 hours ago, Ali Gator said:

I'm surprised they don't have Cleopatra choosing her pronouns for the sake of diversity. 

I'm sure they, I mean she, would choose 'we'.

[+ nycman]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:17 PM, pubic_assistance said:

No one says "Merry Christmas" in NYC.

That’s not completely true. I’ve hung out with hardcore WASPS who say it with an almost militant tone.

Personally, I just say whatever I’m feeling in the moment. It’s not really a political concept to me. 

Or as I once overheard at a gay bar in NYC, "focus on the Merry part, Mary".

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

I’ve hung out with hardcore WASPS who say it with an almost militant tone.

There's an exception to every rule.

I don't know any "militant" wasps in NYC but I don't doubt there are some left on Park Avenue.

I do personally find it charming when I return to Central Pennsylvania for the holiday season and everyone in every shop and restaurant wishes me a Merry Christmas. Innocently oblivious to the fact that not everyone celebrates.

[+ nycman]

27 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Innocently oblivious to the fact that not everyone celebrates.

I wrote a brilliant (and funny) reply but I’m sure it will be labeled "political" so I deleted it. 

Sorry you guys missed out.

Joy to the World!

 

[viewing ownly]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

I wrote a brilliant (and funny) reply but I’m sure it will be labeled "political" so I deleted it. 

Sorry you guys missed out.

Joy to the World!

 

Wait just a moment - Joy to the where??? P.S. Cleopatra's pronouns are tucked under the feet, well ahead of her time. She / her / made you look!

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I do personally find it charming when I return to Central Pennsylvania for the holiday season and everyone in every shop and restaurant wishes me a Merry Christmas.

Sounds charming indeed!   The only time I experienced the same was in, Sydney, Australia, where every one and every business wished me a Merry Christmas.  I departed on a cruise from Sydney a few days before Christmas, and I remember telling the employee who checked me in that I was enjoying the recognition of Christmas instead of a generic "holiday".  She said the cruise company instructed them to say "happy holiday" in case a passenger "might be American and therefore offended", but she refused.  It was eye opening to see how other countries in the world view Americans as intolerant and easily offended.

I have not been to Egypt yet, but I wonder if a black Cleopatra celebrated Roman holidays, Egyptian holidays, both, or neither.  And imagine the flack she would get today if she wished someone a happy [fill in the blank] European holiday while having an sub-Saharan African complexion.