Sao Paulo for newbies include Espaco Lagoa sauna and HotHouse, Danger

[sydneyboy]

The motivation for mentioning my mugging is not to elicit sympathy but hoping to prevent a similar occurrence to someone else. My attackers were nasty, viscous looking and I suspect capable of anything.

I do not subscribe to the “it could happen anywhere “ school of thought. I might add this argument is often used when people report their crime related experiences. Brazil has its own special problems. 
 

Having said that I am booked for my 10th visit to Brazil, this time São Paulo only, and looking forward to it very much.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

3 hours ago, sydneyboy said:

I do not subscribe to the “it could happen anywhere “ school of thought. I might add this argument is often used when people report their crime related experiences. Brazil has its own special problems.

agree - and there is a Brazilian crime problem, which may be comparable to some other  places.  
Then there is a separate & different Rio crime problem against tourists that is unique, mainly due to geography & demographics: meaning a couple of very small beachfront areas where wealthy foreign tourists congregate, which are surrounded & adjacent to several high-crime favelas.  Then add a very corrupt Rio police force & it’s creates the perfect conditions for crimes on tourists en masse.

There is no other global tourist destination with these unique dynamics at play.  Of course, it’s important to note many of Rio tourists are seeking paid sexual encounters with unknown people and/or seeking out drugs.  What exactly would anyone think could happen under these circumstances ?

To try to make a comparison, start with major global sex tourist destinations that have millions of wealthy foreign tourists descending in a tiny area surrounded by the most violent high crime/extreme poverty areas in the subject country. 
Hint: there is no other place with all the same variables and the corresponding crime against tourists.

Lots of people here don’t want to acknowledge the additional risks that exist for sex-tourists in Rio, visiting Copacabana and/or Ipanema. Much better to be realistic about it & prepare vs “it could happen anywhere”

I’ve been to Rio at least a dozen times. And it was great when I was younger.  Now, I no longer wish to vacation in a place that requires so much extra vigilance & extra security considerations.  It’s just not fun or relaxing.  
São Paulo is now my Brazilian destination of choice, without all the crime & close-in favelas.  Easy to get into trouble in SP too, but much less likely.  Stay in Jardins near Paulista and then crime equals or is less in comparable areas in major European cities

 btw - hotels & restaurants in Rio are dumps compared to SP.  

Edited September 7, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[BSR]

6 hours ago, mixer17 said:

 Do a simple google of "mass shootings" for different countries and you will be surprised how much safer Brazil is than a lot of places. 

Big cities are all the same when you think of it.  Hotels, drug stores, groceries stores, places of work, malls etc etc; the surroundings and people just look different. If you think the safety of big cities in US vs Brasil is different, you might want to do some research.

I googled intentional homicide rates in the US and Brazil, because your claim about the safety of big cities in the 2 countries just didn't sound right.  In 2020 the murder rate in Brazil was 22.38 per 100,000; in 2022 it was 23.3 per 100K.  In the US in 2020 & 2021 the murder rate was 6.42 & 6.81 respectively per 100K (couldn't find 2022 data).

As for mass shootings, it's a bit tricky because the definition of "mass shooting" varies.  As for your feeling of being unsafe at an LGBT event, your personal anecdote is not evidence, as @Marc in Calif will politely explain.

[BSR]

1 hour ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

it might be a personal anecdote, but there is no dispute that mass shootings are on the rise in the US.  I can’t keep track anymore because it happens all the time.

If you make a claim like that, back it up with some evidence.  Otherwise, it's just your personal opinion.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

9 minutes ago, BSR said:

If you make a claim like that, back it up with some evidence.  Otherwise, it's just your personal opinion.

you must not live in the US, or have lived here long.

Public Mass Shootings: Database Amasses Details of a Half Century of U.S. Mass Shootings with Firearms, Generating Psychosocial Histories | National Institute of Justice

NIJ.OJP.GOV

---

Persons who committed public mass shootings in the U.S. over the last half century were commonly...

A Troubling Upward Trend

The research examined an era of marked increase in the number and deadly effect of mass shootings in the United States. To summarize that trend:

• The project spanned mass shootings over more than 50 years, yet 20% of the 167 mass shootings in that period occurred in the last five years of the study period.
• More than half occurred after 2000, of which 33% occurred after 2010.
• The years with the highest number of mass shootings were 2018, with nine, and 1999 and 2017, each with seven.
• Sixteen of the 20 deadliest mass shootings in modern history (i.e., from 1966 through 2019), occurred between 1999 and 2019, and eight of those sixteen occurred between 2014 and 2019.
• The death toll has risen sharply, particularly in the last decade. In the 1970s, mass shootings claimed an average of eight lives per year. From 2010 to 2019, the end of the study period, the average was up to 51 deaths per year.

[BSR]

1 hour ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

The gun death rate in the U.S. is much higher than in most other nations, particularly developed nations.

I will never understand why the so-called "experts" lump together gun murders with gun suicides.  Murder is a crime problem whereas suicide is a mental health problem.  Eliminating guns will not stop people from committing suicide.  Most will find another means.  The few who don't will fall into an abyss:  drugs, alcohol, depression, all of the above.  Japan, where individual gun ownership is extremely rare, has a higher suicide rate than the US.

The US does not have gun violence problem.  We have a drug warfare problem and a gun suicide problem.  If you factor out those 2 causes of gun death, the US has a gun murder rate comparable to Belgium.  I provided all the links & stats in another (now deleted) thread, but nobody bothered to read them.  Hopefully you'll understand why I lack motivation to do it all over again.

To solve the drug warfare problem, the US could do what Bukele did in El Salvador:  build a massive prison and lock all the narcos up.  Whaddya know, the murder rate plummeted from a shocking 103 per 100,000 in 2015 to just 7.8 per 100K in 2022.  For 2023 year to date ( 1/1-9/3), the murder rate dropped to an eye-poppingly low 2.3 per 100K.

Edited September 7, 2023 by BSR
Typo

[SouthOfTheBorder]

3 minutes ago, BSR said:

The US does not have gun violence problem

this is a thread about São Paulo, Rio and attendant safety concerns.  But thanks for hijacking it to make your political talking points.  Well done 

[BSR]

32 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

you must not live in the US, or have lived here long.

Public Mass Shootings: Database Amasses Details of a Half Century of U.S. Mass Shootings with Firearms, Generating Psychosocial Histories | National Institute of Justice

NIJ.OJP.GOV

---

Persons who committed public mass shootings in the U.S. over the last half century were commonly...

A Troubling Upward Trend

The research examined an era of marked increase in the number and deadly effect of mass shootings in the United States. To summarize that trend:

• The project spanned mass shootings over more than 50 years, yet 20% of the 167 mass shootings in that period occurred in the last five years of the study period.
• More than half occurred after 2000, of which 33% occurred after 2010.
• The years with the highest number of mass shootings were 2018, with nine, and 1999 and 2017, each with seven.
• Sixteen of the 20 deadliest mass shootings in modern history (i.e., from 1966 through 2019), occurred between 1999 and 2019, and eight of those sixteen occurred between 2014 and 2019.
• The death toll has risen sharply, particularly in the last decade. In the 1970s, mass shootings claimed an average of eight lives per year. From 2010 to 2019, the end of the study period, the average was up to 51 deaths per year.

Do you know where a mass shooting has never happened?  In schools that allow their teachers to conceal carry.  272 TX school districts have adopted concealed programs, and 28 states have adopted the program to varying degrees.  Not a single mass shooting (or even an individual shooting) during school hours.

Sorry, again, just responding to your post.  Please return to the subject of crime and tourist safety in Brazil.

Edited September 7, 2023 by BSR
Clarity

[SouthOfTheBorder]

11 minutes ago, BSR said:

I was responding your post.  Look in the mirror, pal.

no - actually you jumped into this thread to respond to @mixer17

this is how trolls do it: manipulate the conversation to start the political controversy that you really want…..& is now banned here.  

have you ever been to São Paulo or Rio ?  Let’s hear about that & how it compares re: personal safety to other places.  Or, extra precautions that may need to taken, or places to avoid when in Brazil. 

[Alfstoria]

I hope our GP thread doesn't get canceled. It's filled with valuable information for planning a sexvacation in Brazil. We're all mature adults here, so we each will take care of ourselves. We don't require additional statistics or updates on recent crimes. Whether or not we have that information, we'll be adequately prepared and aware. If I want news, I'll visit a news or statistics forum.

peace and viva 9/10 inch’s uc well built handsome face garotos

 

[mixer17]

9 hours ago, BSR said:

I will never understand why the so-called "experts" lump together gun murders with gun suicides.  Murder is a crime problem whereas suicide is a mental health problem.  Eliminating guns will not stop people from committing suicide.  Most will find another means.  The few who don't will fall into an abyss:  drugs, alcohol, depression, all of the above.  Japan, where individual gun ownership is extremely rare, has a higher suicide rate than the US.

The US does not have gun violence problem.  We have a drug warfare problem and a gun suicide problem.  If you factor out those 2 causes of gun death, the US has a gun murder rate comparable to Belgium.  I provided all the links & stats in another (now deleted) thread, but nobody bothered to read them.  Hopefully you'll understand why I lack motivation to do it all over again.

To solve the drug warfare problem, the US could do what Bukele did in El Salvador:  build a massive prison and lock all the narcos up.  Whaddya know, the murder rate plummeted from a shocking 103 per 100,000 in 2015 to just 7.8 per 100K in 2022.  For 2023 year to date ( 1/1-9/3), the murder rate dropped to an eye-poppingly low 2.3 per 100K.

United States tops 400 mass shootings in 2023 | CNN Politics

WWW.CNN.COM

---

The United States has surpassed 400 mass shootings in 2023, setting the stage for a record-breaking year...

400 mass shootings in 2023. You don't need a reason to be shot at in this country, You just need to be at the wrong place and the wrong time. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by mixer17

[mixer17]

13 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

agree - and there is a Brazilian crime problem, which may be comparable to some other  places.  
Then there is a separate & different Rio crime problem against tourists that is unique, mainly due to geography & demographics: meaning a couple of very small beachfront areas where wealthy foreign tourists congregate, which are surrounded & adjacent to several high-crime favelas.  Then add a very corrupt Rio police force & it’s creates the perfect conditions for crimes on tourists en masse.

There is no other global tourist destination with these unique dynamics at play.  Of course, it’s important to note many of Rio tourists are seeking paid sexual encounters with unknown people and/or seeking out drugs.  What exactly would anyone think could happen under these circumstances ?

To try to make a comparison, start with major global sex tourist destinations that have millions of wealthy foreign tourists descending in a tiny area surrounded by the most violent high crime/extreme poverty areas in the subject country. 
Hint: there is no other place with all the same variables and the corresponding crime against tourists.

Lots of people here don’t want to acknowledge the additional risks that exist for sex-tourists in Rio, visiting Copacabana and/or Ipanema. Much better to be realistic about it & prepare vs “it could happen anywhere”

I’ve been to Rio at least a dozen times. And it was great when I was younger.  Now, I no longer wish to vacation in a place that requires so much extra vigilance & extra security considerations.  It’s just not fun or relaxing.  
São Paulo is now my Brazilian destination of choice, without all the crime & close-in favelas.  Easy to get into trouble in SP too, but much less likely.  Stay in Jardins near Paulista and then crime equals or is less in comparable areas in major European cities

 btw - hotels & restaurants in Rio are dumps compared to SP.  

Sao Paolo for the win. The hotels are great.  A lot of the condo's that are airbnb'd are modern and extremely convenient.  My favorite airbnb, has facial recognition or a programmable entry lock (your choice), 24 hour security, a big ass tub, a Brazilian toilet that is better than my toto, shared laundry that you can reserve by app and a pool for $45 night.   The 98 Michelin Starred restaurants they have won't leave you broke. The GPs are happy to go eat out with you (choose wisely or just go by yourself) You don't need to tip (please tip) to get amazing service. Best of all, The city is sex-positive and won't judge you for being a sex tourist. You don't need to duck into Lagoa or the clubs all-incognito because sexuality is not shamed.   

Rio would be entirely optional for me if I didn't crave the beach so much when I am vacationing.  Rio can be very limiting.  Thankfully, all I really need in Rio is the beach and the sauna.  There's a lot of Ubering involved. I am not comfortable enough to go so Sao Jose, the beach city south of Sao Paolo, or I would skip Rio entirely.  I don't need to go to the Sauna everyday.  

[mixer17]

9 hours ago, BSR said:

I will never understand why the so-called "experts" lump together gun murders with gun suicides.  Murder is a crime problem whereas suicide is a mental health problem.  Eliminating guns will not stop people from committing suicide.  Most will find another means.  The few who don't will fall into an abyss:  drugs, alcohol, depression, all of the above.  Japan, where individual gun ownership is extremely rare, has a higher suicide rate than the US.

The US does not have gun violence problem.  We have a drug warfare problem and a gun suicide problem.  If you factor out those 2 causes of gun death, the US has a gun murder rate comparable to Belgium.  I provided all the links & stats in another (now deleted) thread, but nobody bothered to read them.  Hopefully you'll understand why I lack motivation to do it all over again.

To solve the drug warfare problem, the US could do what Bukele did in El Salvador:  build a massive prison and lock all the narcos up.  Whaddya know, the murder rate plummeted from a shocking 103 per 100,000 in 2015 to just 7.8 per 100K in 2022.  For 2023 year to date ( 1/1-9/3), the murder rate dropped to an eye-poppingly low 2.3 per 100K.

The big question here is WHO was being murdered?  All from inference, so I may be wrong:  They locked up the narcos who couldn't murder each other anymore.  Lower criminal-on-criminal murder that in turn lowered national homicide rates.  So what's the lesson:  don't join a gang?  I never intended to.    

I don't think the majority of your statistic affects tourists or innocent bystanders. I don't do drugs and  have no intention of going anywhere near drug crimes are known to be.   I think drug related gun crime has ZERO% to do with this particular thread.

Edited September 8, 2023 by mixer17

[mixer17]

43 minutes ago, Alfstoria said:

I hope our GP thread doesn't get canceled. It's filled with valuable information for planning a sexvacation in Brazil. We're all mature adults here, so we each will take care of ourselves. We don't require additional statistics or updates on recent crimes. Whether or not we have that information, we'll be adequately prepared and aware. If I want news, I'll visit a news or statistics forum.

peace and viva 9/10 inch’s uc well built handsome face garotos

 

Back on topic,  Pro-tip that was recently taught to me as well. If introduce yourself to the hosts of the clubs, you will be surprised how well you are taken care of.  The couple who owns HotHouse are the nicest guys.  They will show you the ropes.  You will always have a stripper or two sitting next to you (who wants your money of course).  

The strippers can put you on guest lists if you befriend them (just be careful) and you won't pay for entry.

Same goes for Lagoa, there are certain people to befriend and your experience will be even better than it already is.  Pay for someones drink once and it will pay off. 

 

[Cooper]

Administrator’s Message:

Gentlemen, Replies that are off topic have been & will be removed. Remember: attack the issue, not the person… And, you all know this:  no politics! 

[coriolis888]

I just returned to Sao Paulo today.  

Ubering from GRU, I noticed less traffic because today is a holiday in  Brazil.

I agree, there is a lot of important new Brazil information in this thread.  It would be a shame to have it removed because of a few posters that keeping interjecting politics and unrelated issues in this BRAZIL thread.

The Uber driver was nice and said he did not have much business today because of the holiday.

I asked him if he wanted to make additional money by driving past areas that were not included in my initial request from GRU to my hotel.

The driver agreed.  My Portuguese is good enough to know what the driver was saying and for understanding the contrast of how Sao Paulo has changed over the past couple of years since the pandemic..

The driver noted the deterioration of Centro greater than it was because of the coronavirus.  He also commented on more homeless people on the streets and he drove me past areas that now have tents with homeless people that were not there prior to the pandemic.

We eventually reached my area were I am staying.  I will be less likely to be involved with a mugger, therefore, the extra cost I pay to stay where I stay is certainly worth it to me (these hotels are only about one hundred dollars higher than less safe hotels.

There are some great hotels not far from Lagoa, including where I am staying.  I am Talking about Rua Alameda Santos where you will find Intercontinental Hotel, Marriott and other good quality named hotels that are in a safe neighborhood where you are not likely to meet a mugger.  This street is one block from Avenida Paulista which is the fanciest and safest street in Sao Paulo.  Surprisingly, even though you will stay in a fancy neighborhood, you will avoid most danger and you will see the better parts of Sao Paulo.

Try it, you might like it. 

 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

3 hours ago, mixer17 said:

The 98 Michelin Starred restaurants they have won't leave you broke

this is also a major difference between the two cities - São Paulo is a global city and the financial capital of Latin America.  Better restaurants, better hotels, basically better everything compared to Rio - unless the beach is something you can’t live without. And even then, prepare to be robbed.

Really depends on the type of tourist you are and your requirements.  If you like fine dining, beautiful hotels, a safe & sophisticated environment, then São Paulo is for you.  
If you don’t mind subpar sketchy beach hotels, mediocre food and constant danger, then Rio is your destination.

[mixer17]

1 hour ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

this is also a major difference between the two cities - São Paulo is a global city and the financial capital of Latin America.  Better restaurants, better hotels, basically better everything compared to Rio - unless the beach is something you can’t live without. And even then, prepare to be robbed.

Really depends on the type of tourist you are and your requirements.  If you like fine dining, beautiful hotels, a safe & sophisticated environment, then São Paulo is for you.  
If you don’t mind subpar sketchy beach hotels, mediocre food and constant danger, then Rio is your destination.

Variety of GP is also better though (note I didn't say quality of GP ~ this depends a lot on luck.)  I also feel like the GPs in Sao Paolo are a little less "hustlery" than a lot of the guys in Rio who are just GP hustler profissional who I would keep the contact down to programa only.   

About Rio, I will agree to disagree with you on this one.  Even though Rio is just a big bummer of a chore,  I do not think there is truly CONSTANT danger.  Avoiding the danger is really tedious though.  And just It's a LOT of ubering. 

So You mean you don't feel safe even taking a walk after breakfast at 8 in the morning?  The robeiros are still asleep I think lol. I mean it's just me, but I found some periods of time when relaxing a little is okay. I think the beach is generally fine once you get there. It helps that I tan to mulato color really fast though.   My hotel choices are also strategic.  So everything I need is a safe walking distance away (2 blocks or less, mostly less).  

If you want, I can recommend some hotels that won't break the bank.  None are as good though as Sao Paolo price to quality.  

[sydneyboy]

5 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

I just returned to Sao Paulo today.  

Ubering from GRU, I noticed less traffic because today is a holiday in  Brazil.

I agree, there is a lot of important new Brazil information in this thread.  It would be a shame to have it removed because of a few posters that keeping interjecting politics and unrelated issues in this BRAZIL thread.

The Uber driver was nice and said he did not have much business today because of the holiday.

I asked him if he wanted to make additional money by driving past areas that were not included in my initial request from GRU to my hotel.

The driver agreed.  My Portuguese is good enough to know what the driver was saying and for understanding the contrast of how Sao Paulo has changed over the past couple of years since the pandemic..

The driver noted the deterioration of Centro greater than it was because of the coronavirus.  He also commented on more homeless people on the streets and he drove me past areas that now have tents with homeless people that were not there prior to the pandemic.

We eventually reached my area were I am staying.  I will be less likely to be involved with a mugger, therefore, the extra cost I pay to stay where I stay is certainly worth it to me (these hotels are only about one hundred dollars higher than less safe hotels.

There are some great hotels not far from Lagoa, including where I am staying.  I am Talking about Rua Alameda Santos where you will find Intercontinental Hotel, Marriott and other good quality named hotels that are in a safe neighborhood where you are not likely to meet a mugger.  This street is one block from Avenida Paulista which is the fanciest and safest street in Sao Paulo.  Surprisingly, even though you will stay in a fancy neighborhood, you will avoid most danger and you will see the better parts of Sao Paulo.

Try it, you might like it. 

 

How was Lagoa on this trip?

[Alfstoria]

8 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

I just returned to Sao Paulo today.  

Ubering from GRU, I noticed less traffic because today is a holiday in  Brazil.

I agree, there is a lot of important new Brazil information in this thread.  It would be a shame to have it removed because of a few posters that keeping interjecting politics and unrelated issues in this BRAZIL thread.

The Uber driver was nice and said he did not have much business today because of the holiday.

I asked him if he wanted to make additional money by driving past areas that were not included in my initial request from GRU to my hotel.

The driver agreed.  My Portuguese is good enough to know what the driver was saying and for understanding the contrast of how Sao Paulo has changed over the past couple of years since the pandemic..

The driver noted the deterioration of Centro greater than it was because of the coronavirus.  He also commented on more homeless people on the streets and he drove me past areas that now have tents with homeless people that were not there prior to the pandemic.

We eventually reached my area were I am staying.  I will be less likely to be involved with a mugger, therefore, the extra cost I pay to stay where I stay is certainly worth it to me (these hotels are only about one hundred dollars higher than less safe hotels.

There are some great hotels not far from Lagoa, including where I am staying.  I am Talking about Rua Alameda Santos where you will find Intercontinental Hotel, Marriott and other good quality named hotels that are in a safe neighborhood where you are not likely to meet a mugger.  This street is one block from Avenida Paulista which is the fanciest and safest street in Sao Paulo.  Surprisingly, even though you will stay in a fancy neighborhood, you will avoid most danger and you will see the better parts of Sao Paulo.

Try it, you might like it. 

 

"I'll definitely check out those hotels. Is there something wrong with Hotel Heritage? It can't be sold out for the entire year; that seems strange. I was planning to book for November, but it's sold out, and October too. There are more hotels in the area. I'll need a nap around 9:30 or 10:00 pm so I can stay out at bars or just hang out.

There was this hotel off Avenida Paulista; I can't remember the name, but then I realized it was an apartment/hotel. I don't like apartments when traveling; I prefer the practicality of hotels.

@coriolis888I hope you had a great time. I can't wait to hear about your experience. Please send me some names for hotels near Lagoa.
Thanks

[solacesoul]

This Rio vs. São Paulo battle is a bit tiresome, but it’s actually also a “thing” between the cities in Brazil. And it’s really just a matter of personal preference and picking your own poison. It’s like the perennial New York City vs. Los Angeles battle — two major metropolises with two markedly different personalities and lifestyles, and most people have a clear preference of either. Personally, having worked for long periods of time in São Paulo and having lived full-time in New York for a decade and a half, nothing more than a long, extended weekend in São Paulo (the NYC of South America, but really it’s twice as large, like NYC on steroids) is fine enough for me. On the contrary, I can spend months in fitness-centric, beach-oriented, sunny Rio before feeling like the walls are starting to close in on me. What’s truly great is that both of these wonderful Brazilian cities are within an overnight 1001 bus ride from each other — or if you’re a total travel snob or a fraidycat, just a 45-minute hop by flight from SDU to CGH.

I strongly advise anyone who is very concerned for safety and also looks like they have a target on their face or back (and if you have to think about whether you are a target, then you are, Blanche, you are!), to completely avoid any areas or cities where they are likely to be targeted. If it means that, for your own piece of mind, you need to avoid Rio de Janeiro, or Recife, or Salvador, or anywhere in Centro in São Paulo, including but not limited to República, then by all means, please do. It’s a big world out there. Go somewhere else. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by solacesoul

[Kalypso_Dee]

How about Pipa (Rio Grande Do Norte), Jericoacoa and Fortaleza in the state of Ceara? I had planned on going to NE Brasil, but I decided to changed to Spain due to the messy visa requirement implementation by the Brasilian gov. After I purchased round trip ticket ticket to Spain, I found out about the Brazilian gov postponed the visa requirement until 2024. I was planning on visiting 3 beautiful cities in Spain (Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia), but now I"m thinking maybe I should switch back to Brasil. The trip to Brasil will cost 1/3 of what the Spain trip will cost. The hotels in Spain are super expensive, the only accommodations that are fairly  priced are  hostels and  room rentals on Airbnb.

A hostel room rate in Spain per day would get me a beach front villa in Fortaleza Ceara or Natal (Rio Grande do Norte). I'm not a fan of staying at hostels, even tough they look really nice in Spain. It actually makes more economic sense to change the ticket back to Brasil.  In Spain (as in most European cities), I mostly have to worry about pick pocketing groups, but in NE Brasil  mugging and armed robberies. I'm going to have to make a decision soon,  I still have 4 weeks to make up my mind. I'm still leaning towards Spain because I don't want to be constantly looking over my shoulders while on vacation. I would like the vacation to be a pretty safe, quiet, relaxing beach one. On the other hand, Brasil will definitely be more fun and cheaper, especially with all regular muscle boys that I have been chatting online with,  and some of the Brazilian porn stars waiting for my arrival. In the end, I will need to decide on whether it's Spain or Brazil. The forum on (Spain/Brasil) here is very helpful.

[Yorkynyc]

hi everyone.

going with a friend to Salvador de Bahia and then Sao Paulo. Ive been in Bahia, but before i started hiring. the same with Sao paulo.

i have read all the postings and have been a rollercoaster. I am a darkskin latino so i think i will be fine using taxis and my portuguese is ok enough to comunicate. At least is better than my English's 

Does anyone knows if is any place in Salvador de Bahia with hot guys? I have investigate adn it seems like  Club 11 and Sauna Fox are places to check it out

any info will be gladdy appreciate it. and for Sao Paulo i have more than enough information, so i will go to Lagoa, of course, and to the other one 55

i am also curios about Glory holes and dark rooms so if anyone knows . Rent men doesnt look promising so i will stick to clubs and saunas.

[+ José Soplanucas]

52 minutes ago, Yorkynyc said:

hi everyone.

going with a friend to Salvador de Bahia and then Sao Paulo. Ive been in Bahia, but before i started hiring. the same with Sao paulo.

i have read all the postings and have been a rollercoaster. I am a darkskin latino so i think i will be fine using taxis and my portuguese is ok enough to comunicate. At least is better than my English's 

Does anyone knows if is any place in Salvador de Bahia with hot guys? I have investigate adn it seems like  Club 11 and Sauna Fox are places to check it out

any info will be gladdy appreciate it. and for Sao Paulo i have more than enough information, so i will go to Lagoa, of course, and to the other one 55

i am also curios about Glory holes and dark rooms so if anyone knows . Rent men doesnt look promising so i will stick to clubs and saunas.

They are outdated, but these are my reports.

BEST GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR places -hiring garotos de programa

ILIKEPINGA.COM

---

It was not an easy decision to choose amongst so many garotos de programa stroking their hard big dicks, but...

FANCIEST GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR - ILikePinga

ILIKEPINGA.COM

---

Sauna Fox is the fanciest gay sauna in Salvador to meet garotos de programa. Although I still feel the need to...

NEWEST GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR - ILikePinga - Thermas Club 13

ILIKEPINGA.COM

---

The newest gay sauna in Salvador to hire garotos de programa, Thermas Club 13, opened its doors last...

MOST POPULAR GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR - ILikePinga - Club 11

ILIKEPINGA.COM

---

Club 11 (formerly Planetario) is the most popular gay sauna in Salvador to meet garotos de programa. Of...

 

[Yorkynyc]

7 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

They are outdated, but these are my reports.

BEST GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR places -hiring garotos de programa

ILIKEPINGA.COM

---

It was not an easy decision to choose amongst so many garotos de programa stroking their hard big dicks, but...

FANCIEST GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR - ILikePinga

ILIKEPINGA.COM

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Sauna Fox is the fanciest gay sauna in Salvador to meet garotos de programa. Although I still feel the need to...

NEWEST GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR - ILikePinga - Thermas Club 13

ILIKEPINGA.COM

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The newest gay sauna in Salvador to hire garotos de programa, Thermas Club 13, opened its doors last...

MOST POPULAR GAY SAUNA IN SALVADOR - ILikePinga - Club 11

ILIKEPINGA.COM

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Club 11 (formerly Planetario) is the most popular gay sauna in Salvador to meet garotos de programa. Of...

 

Gracias!

Cant wait to be there. love Brazilian guys.  \lso, my friend is meeting some friends there, so we choose SP over Rio. because we couldnt go to both i Also, the tickets are cheaper 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Yorkynyc