Brazilian soap star murdered by another garoto de programa in Rio.

[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

When I need a Brazil fix now, I go to SP.  Much safer & less likely to have problems 

Strangely I was told that Salvador was dangerous but had fewer problems than Rio.

Plus...the rent boys were half the price and just as sexy.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

6 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Strangely I was told that Salvador was dangerous but had fewer problems than Rio.

the crime rates in northern cities are generally higher than Rio overall, but doesn't take into account unique geography of Rio with concentration of tourists surrounded by favelas.  
As a tourist, you're probably safer in any of the northern cities compared to Zona Sul in Rio.  And that would likely be petty street crime.

you're exponentially more safe in São Paulo in the wealthy neighborhoods like Jardins

most people experience Rio as their gateway to Brazil, but Rio is not all there is in Brazil.  and there are many less dangerous options 

[solacesoul]

12 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

unfortunately, my sense is that a gang shoot-out in Ipanema is not unusual.  

It depends on what you think is infrequent or unusual. In Copacabana and Ipanema, these happen maybe every 5-7 years. Anything like that in the tonier districts of Rio where most tourists stay and where most expats live make the national and international news. They happen much more often in the favelas, Zona Norte, and Western Rio, but because the “wrong” people live there (read: blacker, browner, poorer), it’s never covered beyond local TV news blurbs — unless it’s a mass shooting / killing, the size of the ones that occur in the USA weekly at this point.

The Farme do Amoedo incident (at least the one I am referring to) occurred in the early 2010s, if my memory serves me correctly. You might be mistaking your timeline with the gang warfare from rival favelas Cantagalo and Pavão-Pavãozinho that bled out into the street entrance on the edge of Copacabana and Ipanema. Or maybe the beach riot in 2019 near Posto 4 in Copacabana during Carnaval time that ended in police dispersing the large crowd of party goers and beachers with tear gas. 

In Rio, post-pandemic there’s been recurrent wave of mass robberies known as “arrastoes,” or “dragnets”. An ‘arrastao’ is when a big group of people, usually teenagers and kids, from the favelas go to the beach and in a group rob everyone they can see. Since the group is often the majority, sometimes people cannot do anything about it. The popular beaches are mostly in Zona Sul, including Copacabana and Ipanema, and other than Leblon that’s where the money is, so these beaches are often targeted. Sure, police presence is heavy by those beaches, but that only acts as a deterrent, not a prophylactic. 

In any event, any type of drug gang activity or violence in Zona Sul neighborhoods is typically confined to the favelas. The trafficantes don’t want the problems from the UPP police that are caused when things bleed out into the streets where the rich residents and tourists are. And none of the favela residents want problems with the drug lords because they run their favelas and they can exact their own level of justice.  Crimes against tourists and residents of Zona Sul are almost always confined to petty thefts and robberies (street crimes).

[solacesoul]

10 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Strangely I was told that Salvador was dangerous but had fewer problems than Rio.

Plus...the rent boys were half the price and just as sexy.

Salvador has a greater crime problem than Rio, even if only negligible — as do most of the major cities in the Northeast. Violent crimes in the NE of Brazil are worse and more frequent than in the South. This is verifiably true from available crime stats. 

The garotos in the NE are not 1/2 the cost of those in Rio but they are less expensive. Maybe about 3/4 the cost. As for “just as sexy”, that’s a matter of personal taste. Because it’s not as much of a gym culture there, the available GPs tend not to be as muscular. And of course, there are less GPs in saunas an in ads. But 90% of the residents of the Bahia are of African descent, so you’re most likely to see black men there than anywhere else outside of the African continent.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by solacesoul

[solacesoul]

2 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

the crime rates in northern cities are generally higher than Rio overall, but doesn't take into account unique geography of Rio with concentration of tourists surrounded by favelas.  
As a tourist, you're probably safer in any of the northern cities compared to Zona Sul in Rio.  And that would likely be petty street crime.

The tourist areas of Salvador are also surrounded by favelas.

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, solacesoul said:

Because it’s not as much of a gym culture there, the available GPs tend not to be as muscular. And of course, there are less GPs in saunas an in ads. But 90% of the residents of the Bahia are of African descent, so you’re most likely to see black men there than anywhere else outside of the African continent.

There were plenty of muscular men making themselves available when I was there. Yes...most were black or mixed-race. Tall and fit and fun. I'm not questioning the crime statistics, just mentioning the irony of my personal experiences in Brazil. I witnessed less crime in the more poor city and the more violent crime in the richest neighborhood. Not saying that is always the case.

[solacesoul]

14 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

There were plenty of muscular men making themselves available when I was there. Yes...most were black or mixed-race. Tall and fit and fun. I'm not questioning the crime statistics, just mentioning the irony of my personal experiences in Brazil. I witnessed less crime in the more poor city and the more violent crime in the richest neighborhood. Not saying that is always the case.

We probably have different viewpoints on muscularity. Rio is much more of a bodybuilding culture than Salvador and other areas. Men in the Bahia tend to be “fit” and lean and built more like soccer players or surfers. There are a lot more men and women in Rio that have that bodybuilding / physique competition look because it’s more a part of the culture there (although the other look is just as common).

Regarding your personal observations about crime, it’s good to know that you can accept that your personal anecdotes or feelings don’t override the statistical evidence. 

[pubic_assistance]

I don't find body builders to be attractive. It's actually repulsive to me. I do much prefer a man with a naturally athletic body. So yeah...your definition of muscular may reach into the more artificial than mine.

[pubic_assistance]

24 minutes ago, solacesoul said:

Regarding your personal observations about crime, it’s good to know that you can accept that your personal anecdotes or feelings don’t override the statistical evidence. 

Yes. Obviously. I said it was with IRONY that my experiences were unexpectedly the opposite of what one might expect. I was a block away from Gucci when I was robbed at gun point in Leblon...while I was out walking around poor Bahia at night (Christmas Eve to be specific) and was undisturbed. It was a beautiful experience with people out celebrating with their pots of charcoal on the street, cooking up a modest meal for their celebration with much music and dancing. It is a poor but beautiful African/American culture there.  I don't think enough tourists bother to travel outside  Rio. Brazil is an amazing country and the people tend to be extremely charming and welcoming. The favellas full of drugs and crime are a sad blight on a beautiful country.

Edited June 29, 2023 by pubic_assistance

[+ Lucky]

Wouldn't it be nice if those rich people shared the wealth with the poor people?

[solacesoul]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

The favellas full of drugs and crime are a sad blight on a beautiful country.

There are over 950 favelas in Rio and more than 23 percent of the city's population lives in one of them. 70% of the favela residents are self reported as black, and that’s just those who self-identify as black. 

In São Paulo, 20 percent of the metropolitan-area population (almost 2 million people) live in the favelas.

More people live in favelas in Salvador than in any other Brazilian city: 607,000. 21 percent of Salvador lives in favelas.

Favelas are the working class poor, the laborers, the housekeepers, the restaurant workers, the families of beach barraca owners and workers. The art, culture, music and literature of Brazil largoly originated from the favela. Not to mention, these are mostly Afro-Brazilians.  To ascribe only drugs and crime to them is not only wrong but classist snobbery. And you as a tourist will never HAVE to visit one, so to call them a “blight” is unnecessarily maligning.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by solacesoul

[solacesoul]

43 minutes ago, Lucky said:

Wouldn't it be nice if those rich people shared the wealth with the poor people?

The bloody Cuban Revolution began because Guevara, Castro and a number of others were tired of the rich white Americans and Europeans flaunting their wealth in excess and treating the black and brown Cubans like serfs or property.

Tourists should be a bit more circumspect about their words and behavior. Everyone might not be as impressed or in admiration as they like to think they are. 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, Lucky said:

Wouldn't it be nice if those rich people shared the wealth with the poor people?

why don't you set an example & redistribute some wealth ?

unless it's just performative for your audience here

the virtue-signaling is really next level

Edited June 29, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[pubic_assistance]

5 hours ago, solacesoul said:

And you as a tourist will never HAVE to visit one, so to call them a “blight” is unnecessarily maligning.

I have visited two different favela neighborhoods in Brazil. As far as your righteous indignation comment I very specifically was referring to the blight of crime and drugs . So you may like crimes and drugs but I am too much of a "snob" to find the appeal you seem to be defending. 

[pubic_assistance]

5 hours ago, solacesoul said:

The bloody Cuban Revolution began because Guevara, Castro and a number of others were tired of the rich white Americans and Europeans flaunting their wealth in excess and treating the black and brown Cubans like serfs or property.

The entire history of Latin America is about Rich Europeans treating brown people as serfs (and black people as property).

Edited June 29, 2023 by pubic_assistance

[solacesoul]

55 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

As far as your righteous indignation comment I very specifically was referring to the blight of crime and drugs . So you may like crimes and drugs but I am too much of a "snob" to find the appeal you seem to be defending. 

Your comment, worded “The favellas [sic] full of drugs and crime are a sad blight on a beautiful country,” reads as if your criticism is principally about the favelas, not the drugs and crime. If your intent was otherwise, a better wording would’ve been, “the drugs and crime in the favelas are a sad blight on an otherwise beautiful country.”

Visiting a favela as a casual tourist is not the same as living in one — which millions of Brazilians do. 

[solacesoul]

44 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

The entire history of Latin America is about Rich Europeans treating brown people as serfs (and black people as property).

You can edit that to include other parts of the globe as well. 

[pubic_assistance]

9 minutes ago, solacesoul said:

Visiting a favela as a casual tourist is not the same as living in one — which millions of Brazilians do. 

Obviously.

I have traveled to many poor countries and am NOT a snob about travel. I enjoy visiting places and seeing how people truly live. It's not always castles and cafe's in Europe for me.  So your presumptions about me are starting to stink of racism for assuming being rich and white makes me clueless about poverty.

In fact I have always found it important for my children to visit places where they can witness how much of the world lives. They have never been to Disney World, but they have watched a man cook a dead rat over a pot of charcoal on the streets of Yogyakara.

 

[pubic_assistance]

21 minutes ago, solacesoul said:

You can edit that to include other parts of the globe as well. 

You enjoy stating the obvious.

We were talking about Brazil, and then Cuba...so the brutality of the Spanish came to mind first.

Certainly the Portuguese, French, English, Danish and Swedes forced their fair-share into slavery around the world too.

[+ José Soplanucas]

6 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

They have never been to Disney World, but they have watched a man cook a dead rat over a pot of charcoal on the streets of Yogyakara.

Wow. I envy those kids. From a man cooking a dead rat (I am glad it was not alive) in Yogyakarta to two men practicing oral sex in the Village! I wish I had that childhood!

[solacesoul]

11 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

So your presumptions about me are starting to stink of racism for assuming being rich and white makes me clueless about poverty.

That’s not what racism is. But ok. I don’t know you. I only know you by your words. As a person who is self-identifying as white and rich, and assuming English-speaking, you should have plenty of access and ability to be clearer about your language and what you choose to convey. I ask you to try to more careful in how you word things. Otherwise, you run the risk of being like another poster here and elsewhere who doesn’t seem to care at all if anyone else understands him, as long as he does. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by solacesoul

[solacesoul]

7 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

You enjoy stating the obvious.

You might be surprised at how many people are blind (unwillingly or otherwise) to the obvious, especially when it comes to colonialism, the African slave trade and their long-lasting effects.

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, solacesoul said:

You might be surprised at how many people are blind (unwillingly or otherwise) to the obvious, especially when it comes to colonialism, the African slave trade and their long-lasting effects.

Most everyone turns a blind eye to it. And it's returning little by little.  But I can't say more since it's too political.

[solacesoul]

On 6/28/2023 at 10:51 AM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

Plus - the wildcard in Rio is so many tourists going for sex tourism which puts customers at higher risk and some getting mixed up in drug trade.  That doesn't happen in DC.  It's not in any way comparable to touring federal buildings and the Smithsonian. Nobody is going to DC for sex tourism 

I get that the reaction to Rio criticism is to defend and rationalize your trips - I did it too.  
Its much more real to say something like "I'm a sex tourist and I'm willing to go to a dangerous city because the low costs, variety & availability of sex trade justifies the risk"  That's honest 

Let’s address this piece.

Although this site / board and a couple of others cater to sex tourists and are going to attract discussion principally about it, there are many reasons other than just sex that tourists would want to visit Rio / Brazil, and a foreigner might decide to relocate / expatriate / retire there.

Some of us here may tend to believe that because one thing is important to or prioritized by us, then there couldn’t possibly be anything more important to others. Of course, this isn’t the case.

Some people come to Rio or other parts of Brazil and fall in love with the city or country, in spite of its issues.  Others, and this is surely most, can visit and feel very little to no connection or attachment to it — and that should be okay, too.

In my particular case, upon landing in Brazil for the first time almost a decade and a half ago (this was after even more years of study and reading about it), I immediately developed an indescribable love for and connection to the land, the people, the language, the culture, as if it already were my first or second home. I have since learned that this is actually a thing. It’s called “topophilia” —  defined as “a strong sense of place, which often becomes mixed with the sense of cultural identity among certain people and a love of certain aspects of such a place”, or “the affective bond with one's environment—a person's mental, emotional, and cognitive ties to a place.” I have lived many places on four separate continents, and never felt such a way before Brazil. Mind you, Rio was not even my first visit. That was Salvador. Since then, I’ve been to at least 12 different cities in Brazil — all of which have different charms and setbacks (crime and safety being a consideration in all of them, to varying degrees).

I agree that Rio or even any other part of Brazil might not be everyone else’s cup of tea. There are places worldwide I have visited after others have sung their praises, and although I am glad for the experience and the checkmark on my bucket list, I probably wouldn’t ever pay to return there. I have some friends and colleagues who, after visiting, were not as enamored with Rio or Brazil as I am. And that’s great! They should spend their vacation money somewhere they actually can enjoy and appreciate. And if safety or crime issues are deterrents, then no one should lie and blow smoke up their asses by telling them they will not be targeted for crime in Rio (or Brazil).

It’s a big world out there. 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by solacesoul

[SirBillybob]

So basically, like, what the other one was suggesting: topophilia.