Only Race Matters More Than Sexual Preferences?

[RomeTyson]

I'm normally one of the many voyeurs on this site. I enjoy reading most of the messages - even the arguments. Hopefully what I'm about to say won't start another argument, but will provoke some decent dialogue about this particular issue I have.

 

I have a client who is black that travels to the LA area often. He wanted to try something new for himself, by hiring someone white/hispanic to join us. He called several escorts in the LA area (some of which post here occasionally to frequently) to book appointments. Almost all of the escorts he chose to contact clearly stated that they "aren't attracted to black guys" or something similiar to that phrase. One escort in particular asked my client if he was black, mumbled something about possibly being booked for the night and asked for my clients number. My client smirked at me and asked the guy to repeat the number back, and the escort responded with "I got it, I'll call you back." <Click>

 

Since this has happened to me before with 2 other clients (who are white), I decided to have a caucasian friend make a fake call to the escort mentioned in the above-referenced situation. Unfortunately, when my friend called me back, I received the answer that I didn't want, but expected: for my friend, who described himself as a mid-40's bear type, the escort was available to meet him at any time until 12 midnight. Fortunately, before I succumbed to broadstroking about LA in general we were able to find an escort who was more than willing to join us.

 

Do escorts really throw professionalism out the window when it comes to race? Although I don't have any racial preferences when it comes to dating, I certainly accept the preferences of others. But, come on - are escorts professional enough to take money from from a client who's white (or as someone recently used, "WASPy") or hispanic, regardless of their physical attributes, but not from a client who's black? And does this include working with another escort who happens to be black? I'd really like to know other escorts' opinions... and feel free to e-mail me privately, if posting on the message board prevents you from giving an answer that isn't politically correct. And yes, clients are welcome to chime in also ('cause the other side intrigues me as well).

 

Please excuse any grammatical errors. Stay safe!

[+ deej]

This topic has come up before, but it has been a while so it would probably be difficult to find. There are, naturally, as many different opinions on it as there are clients and escorts.

 

One point of view is that escorts should not descriminate, but there is another perfectly valid view.

 

If an escort will have trouble performing for (black, white, asian, latin, hairy, fat, thin, disabled, whatever) clients, it's better for both if the meeting doesn't happen. There's still a human being behind that hourly rate, and humans sometimes do have prejudices that can hamper performance.

[Guest Merlin]

There is more than skin color involved. Many whites are intimidated by blacks. Some cab drivers do not want to pick black men; pizza boys do not want to go to black neighborhoods. Skin color is not the issue; it is a "marker" for a subculture in which violent crime is more prevelant than in the society for a whole. Black men seem to want to be intimidating. About 99% of black men wear a mustache or beard; the clean-cut black men are almost rare. It does make them look more macho and intimidating, but at a cost.

[+ Charlie]

White escorts who operate through the Internet encounter mostly white clients. The blacks they are familiar with through the escorting world are black escorts, and they (for reasons that would be interesting to explore) seem almost always to project a "thug" image in their advertising. I suspect that white escorts, who operate in a field which already presents potential dangers, perceive black clients as even more dangerous than white clients, and since they get so few requests from them, it is easy to turn them down. If black clients were a much larger customer base for them, their attitude and behavior would probably change. It is somewhat analogous to the days when businesses would turn away openly gay customers, until the number of out gays with money to spend became so large that they had to reconsider their policy.

[Guest Jesse Dane]

While I have no problem accepting clients of all races the "thug" concept brought up does raise concerns at times. When I get a call from a client I would not turn them down because I thought they sounded black, but if they talked to me in urban slang such as "Yo G, what up?" I would be very uncomfortable and probably turn down the appointment (or if they sent me a picture and they looked very thugged out). Not based on their race, but based on the lifestyle that generally accompanies that type of talk. It is for the same reasons that I will not go to visit a client in the bronx, harlem, and many parts of brooklyn and queens. They are just things that are outside my comfort level.

[Yeswell]

Hello Rome. The fact that a discussion of why some escorts turn down black clients became a discussion of how black men are dangerous answers your question in the most depressing way possible. So it was racism all along.

[FourAces]

Rome as others have mentioned the topic has been discussed many times. Each thread always brings to light new views that tend to amuse me. Then, I'm easily amused.

 

My question is, are these escorts turning your client down because he is black and they're simply not attracted to black people or are they turning your client down because they dislike black people? It's an important distinction that we will never find the answer to.

 

I'm attracted to people of many ethnic backgrounds but there one I'm not interested in at all. And to be honest I'm not certain if that is because I don't like their race or if it simply is an attraction thing ... I don't know.

 

But when I mention to friends that I'm attracted to Asian, Hispanic and Black guys they tend to feel the same toward all 3 races ... why? Yet when I mention that I'm not interested at all of people from background "X" they think I'm crazy and being racist ... it is a no win situation.

 

Bottom line if you want to know prejudice try being my size (extremely fat) my age (over 50) and my sexual preference (gay) and see how quickly you'll get turned down by escort after escort. It can get depressing when I'm trying to pay someone for fun in the bedroom and they won't take my money because of my looks.

 

The issue goes far beyond ethnic background.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Prevailing Wisdom

 

>Skin color is not the issue; it is a "marker"

>for a subculture in which violent crime is more prevelant than

>in the society for a whole. Black men seem to want to be

>intimidating.

 

I think some of this has a lot to do with what men (and, in this particular instance, that should be narrowed to homosexual males) are familiar with, exposed to culturally and socially, and what they learn to relate to.

 

Two of my regular clients live in expensive homes in the Hollywood Hills. One is an entertainment industry figure with a great deal of money and one of the reasons he continues to hire me is that I am a type he likes. It has nothing to do with him being turned down or not turned down by other escorts. Although, to talk to him on the telephone, you would not have made any assumptions about the color of his skin based on his tone, speech pattern, mannerism or the name he provides. For most escorts in Los Angeles, unless new to the area, his address would also speaks volume about him.

 

On the other hand, one of my other regulars is a fireman who lives in South Central Los Angeles, about five blocks from the epicenter of the Rodney King trial riots of the early 1990s. He comes to my place because I have a fee for outcalls that exceeds incalls by $50 and it is just more cost prohibitative for him, at his salary, to ask me to come to his home on a regular basis. However, I have met him there several times.

 

In my own case, I have dated a Brazillian who, unlike Bruno Gaucho, looked far more similar to the very dark skinned models in Kristen Bjorn films and, as far as skin color was concerned, some might have viewed him as "black." I have also dated an Asian men and, in San Francisco, these types of relationships were very prevelant. However, when I lived a few years in the South, I noticed this was not the case and many of my friends were made uncomfortable by a good friend of mine who was black, even though - while built similar to Matt Rush, because he shaved his head off, was tall, and liked to wear black leather pants, they tended to be intimidated by him. This was the case, without taking into account that he was the son of a doctor and a college professor (his mother), and himself a medical professional who drove a BMW.

 

Once they got to know him, particularly what a big queen he was, they all learned to relax -- about him. However, they still were uncomfortable in certain neighborhoods and certain areas.

 

Finally, like self-loathing, internalized homophobia, I think some of these attitudes are ones we might have carry with us without knowing so.

 

One last thought, Rome: you might have gotten further with some of these escorts if you had let your client do the selecting but you made the phone calls to the escorts themselves, explaining who you were and what your client wanted.

[Trixie]

RE: Prevailing Wisdom

 

You know, Franco, there is nothing in Rome's post that suggests that he was making the calls. In fact, he states quite clearly that his clent was making the calls.

 

BTW, you might tell your friend in the south that shaving his "head" off would be disconcerting to just about anyone.

 

Trix

[Trixie]

Racism and prejudice occur everywhere, and all the time. I grew up in a time and place where I thought that "racism" meant only the struggle that black Americans face living in a white dominated country. Having been fortunate enough to have had friends and lovers of myriad backgrounds in my life, and having been able to travel to quite a few places on this Earth, I can attest that it is an almost universal impulse to feel that those that are "other" or "different" are somehow lesser.

I could give you dozens of examples of occasions where perfectly sane, intelligent, lovely people have, in the course of normal conversation, aired their prejudices before me. I have even had an asian friend tell me that, because of the color of my skin, he would never feel as comfortable with me as he would with other asian people. As far as blacks go, he thinks they are poor, horribly oppressed people. But he would never sleep with one.

In my own upbringing, growing up from farmer and rancher stock in rural areas in the West, I can assure you I was raised to suspect the "others". Blacks were scary, but they lived in big cities, far away. In my family, the table of prejudice was set against Native Americans. Especially since a ranch owned by one of my John Birch Society uncles abutted a reservation.

 

Racism and prejudice have been part and parcel of American culture from the very beginning, as they have been in every other culture on this Earth. But one thing I would like to extoll is this: Here and now, in the USA there has been an ongoing dialogue about racism, race and prejudice that has no precedent in World history. No where before have people (many, many different people) fought for their rights the way they have here, in the context of equality, and no where else has the dominant racial group looked into it's own soul and questioned it's motives the way it has here in the US.

 

The world is changing, and the Americas are a birthing ground for that change. It is a tumultuous, angry, hopeful change, and it is taking place now, and has been taking place for generations. And it will keep on going for a long time. It's not always easy to know how you should feel in times like these. But one thing's for sure... if you want to keep your soul, karma, whatever... clean, there's one thing you must do. When the angry and the self-righteous tell you to march, you must

 

 

DANCE! DANCE! DANCE!

 

La Trix

[RomeTyson]

RE: Prevailing Wisdom

 

LOL Thanks Trixie. I wonder if I scare people with my shaved head... Never gave that much thought. But after reading some of the posts here - in particular, the 99% comment... well it is what it is.

[RomeTyson]

>Bottom line if you want to know prejudice try being my size

>(extremely fat) my age (over 50) and my sexual preference

>(gay) and see how quickly you'll get turned down by escort

>after escort. It can get depressing when I'm trying to pay

>someone for fun in the bedroom and they won't take my money

>because of my looks.

>

>The issue goes far beyond ethnic background.

 

These particular escorts didn't ask if my client (who doesn't speak like a "Thug" but does have a rather bassy voice) if he was over 50, if he was overweight or even whether he considered himself to be attractive, dick/cock size (I've noticed those two words have racial boundaries too LOL) or anything else you can come up with. I sat there and listened to how quickly he (and through him, "we") were turned down by escort after escort.

 

Your issue always warrants attention in the escort/client community but it's separate. After all, I think I specifically asked why some white/hispanic escorts would hook up with a white/hispanic client, REGARDLESS of physical attributes, but not a black client. Wouldn't "regardless of physical attributes" blanket someone with your physical description?

[FourAces]

>Your issue always warrants attention in the escort/client

>community but it's separate. After all, I think I

>specifically asked why some white/hispanic escorts would hook

>up with a white/hispanic client, REGARDLESS of physical

>attributes, but not a black client. Wouldn't "regardless of

>physical attributes" blanket someone with your physical

>description?

Rome if I understand your concern properly you feel that your client (and you) were turned down because you're both black. I don't know if someone can tell if you're black by a phone conversation. However, knowing your black or knowing your old and fat white man gets the same reaction, not interested.

 

You assume that the white/hispanic escorts would not hav a problem with me but do with you because of your colour. I feel you're wrong in that assumption. BTW Several black escorts have also turned me down now am I to believe it's racial or because of my size? My money s on the latter.

 

All I'm pointing out is your experience is not that uncommon in this industry. Sadly it isn't all that uncommon in our society. But either is mine.

[bigguyinpasadena]

Gosh-how in the world do I seperate my taste in men from the racism which I must fight(in myself and others)every day.

Rome,I have not met you-but I have met a splendid fella named Jay Gannamyde.I would have sex with him in a split second.This is really out of charecter for me as I was scarred mentaly and physicly by some black men at a very young age.I have to fight every day to correct myself when the racist thoughts and beliefs I was raised with rear their ugly heads.And then being sexually abused by some black guys-well I guess you can see where I am coming from...

So I guess It all depends on the guy-but I have to try very hard to get over myself when this issue comes up.But at least I recognize it,and put a name opn it,and try as best i can to deal with it.

I do hope you will attend a L.A. Hooville dinner in the future so that we can meet.

[pierrot]

Interesting answers here. I find myself attracted to hot men of various races, ethnic groups and nationalities. But I, like some of you, am very wary of certain "types" that I think might be dangerous. That would include the "thug" attitude as expressed on some escorts' ads, both black and white (yes there are white thugs too, look at the ads). In fact, one reason I like this site, is so I can read the reviews and make a better judgement about an escort before I hire. Another "type" I avoid is a druggy guy, who appears to be doing this to support a habit.

Interestingly enough the only age discrimination I've seen or encountered has been the reverse of what you'd expect. Twice I've been asked by escorts on the phone my age. In each case I thought they were getting ready to tell me, "sorry, too old". But in fact they wanted to make sure I was over 30! Lots of escorts don't want clients in their 20s. One explained to me that too often young clients are high on drugs and can create problems.

I have noticed basic racist attitudes in several escorts though. One told me he doesn't accept Asian clients -- it wasn't clear why. Another, Brazilian guy, was very explicit that he was white, not mestizo as many of his countrymen are. This was clearly a point of importance to him. I have not encountered anyone who has a no-whites policy, but I'm sure there are both blacks and Asians who are not attracted to white guys.

[Samai139]

Like many "older" Americans, I was raised in an environment of "racial stereotyping" and/or downright bigotry. It wasn't until I went to university and then into the U.S. Peace Corps that I realised that I was a racist---knowing that you will be going to Nigeria and will be in the minority brings out your "real" motives and values. Too many Americans, and I suspect other nationalities as well, never move beyond their provincial upbringing and racism, whether overt or not, is often part of that childhood environment. Having lived with and worked with and for people of other races, I am fortunate to have moved beyond my early acculturation.

I spent nearly 15 years in West Africa and came to prefer sexual partners who were African---there were more of them than any others, but the attraction became more natural somehow. When I returned to the U.S. it took several years before I would even look at caucasian men as being sexually attractive. I sought out African-American men and suffered many, many rebuffs, simply because of my skin colour---at least I think so--but hey, maybe it was something else. When I first started going to strip bars in Montreal, it was the dancers of African descent who got my attention. Now? Skin colour doesn't really matter---I can look at dancers of any ethnicity and be attracted if------and the attraction I have is based on "gut reaction" and "chemistry."

I haven't hired that many escorts, and so can't comment on whether an escort who is African-American would reject me or not. I would hope that all of us, as gay Americans, or gay whatevers, could accept other gay men as equals. It's difficult of course to distinguish between rejection based on skin colour and rejection based on other criteria. Economics certainly pay a part in who an escort would accept an appointment with---after all, payment is what it's all about.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

RE: Prevailing Wisdom

 

>You know, Franco, there is nothing in Rome's post that

>suggests that he was making the calls. In fact, he states

>quite clearly that his clent was making the calls.

 

Typing late at night makes me tired.

 

What I meant to write was that Rome might have gotten farther (or, at least some candor) had he made the calls to the escorts, once his client selected the potential candidates. This is what I have done when clients have requested three (or more) -somes. I find it important to explain to the escort my client expectations - which some of my clients are not always clear on with their initial contacts - or uncomfortable to be specific about.

[Yeswell]

I know you mean well, but I have to point out the problems with your posting. There has been "an ongoing dialogue about racism, race and prejudice" in many countries around the world, perhaps in all or at least almost all of them. Most countries are far ahead of the U.S. in dealing with racism. Rather than being "a birthing ground" in the fight against racism, your country lags behind most other industrialised democracies.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Why, as an escort AND good businessman, would someone even think of turning down a non-white client?

 

I'm not debating the percieved 'danger' in dealing with a thug (of any race), but simply escorts against certain skin color. We are being paid to provide a service and to deny someone that time simply based on something they can't change is unprofessional and wrong.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion on this. Mine is crystal-clear: Black, old, white, poor, brown, young, purple, rich, skinny or fat... An escort has no place to discriminate against those who are simply looking for a good time.

 

I don't really buy that it's what you 'don't prefer' because ultimately it's racist, biggoted crap.

 

 

 

~bn

[Epigonos]

Yeswell considering your quote "in the fight against racisim, your country (I assume you mean the United States) lags behind most other industrialized democracies" how do you explain 1.) the riots taking place all over France today, 2.)the reconsideration of immigrations policies in The Netherlands after an ethnic political assisination, 3.) the racial prejudice exhibited in Germany against the Turks, 4.) the periodic racial demonstrations and riots in Great Britain, and 5.)the constant problems that both Australia and New Zealand have regardomg fair treatment of their aboriginal populations. Probably only Japan of the major industrialized democracies doesn't have a major racial problems but then it doesn't have a large minority population. All industrialized democracies, including the United States, which have large minority populations are struggling with racisim. I must say that in the end I think your comment that "your country lags behind most other industrialized democracies" is pure nonsense and most likely an example of European prejudice.

 

Sorry to have hijacked this threat but Yeswell's comment brought out the worst in me. I apologize to all

[Yeswell]

I didn't say other countries were without racism. Even the other industrialised nations (both the ones you cite and the ones you don't) have serious problems with racism. But for sheer systemic racism tied to a rigid class structure, the U.S. is clearly in the lead. And I'm not European: I'm Canadian. We have racism too, but one of the most noticeable things about American life--and I spend a lot of time in your country--is the pervasive racism and poverty. I'm not saying the U.S. is a terrible country by any means, but American complacency and exceptionalism--we're so democratic, at least people are free here, and that sort of propaganda--is not helping the stituation in your country. I was stating a simple fact when I said that the U.S. lagged behind other industrialised nations in this respect. It was not meant as an attack on your country, which I love, and you don't have to be defensive.

[+ deej]

>But for

>sheer systemic racism tied to a rigid class structure, the

>U.S. is clearly in the lead.

 

As an American, I actually (and sadly) agree with you.

 

Americans *are* trailing in social awareness. The Puritan foundation of the country still permeates all attitudes. From abortion to gay marriage, the society as a whole is completely hung up on "traditional values" while practicing anything but.

[Trixie]

Yeswell, I completely agree with you on a certain level. Racism in the US is tied to class structure. There has always been a need for a cheap labor force, and when slavery and indentured servitude were no longer options, that need was found in eastern and southern Europeans, the Irish, Asians, Mexicans and other Latin American Nationals. Each of these groups have been reviled and demonized in their time through prejudice and xenophopia. They all were expected to quietly work for peanuts, and be grateful.

 

And, I agree that the drum-pounding of patriotism and the "glamour" of our consumer society is frequently used to drown out any dissent within this country, or criticism from abroad.

Nevertheless, I still feel that an expiriment of sorts is taking place here. I did say "the Americas" at some point, not just the US, because the expiriment of different races coming together (voluntarily or otherwise) on these TWO continents, and continually challenging the status quo is, as I first proposed, a unique event. And it's an event that is difficult, tragic, ugly, frustruating... as well as ecstatic, beautiful, and hopeful. And again, it's a process. It will take lifetimes.

 

I'm not sure how you measure the US's terms of success against "other industrialized nations" ie; Western Europe, where there was no significant population ever imported as slaves from another race. WE is dealing with only 2-3 generations, at most, of influx of different races, invited as what was once thought of as a "temporary" workforce post WWII.

 

(Japan, BTW, is an EXTREMELY prejudiced nation. Just ask any Korean who lives there.)

 

The "expiriment" of race happening in the Americas is unique. And it could end in flames. But I remain hopeful that it proves- as difficult as it is for all involved- a positive step in th evolution of humanity.

 

Has anyone else clear enough skies tonight to watch the Moon and Mars move together across the sky in perfect synchronicity? It's a lovely, lovely dance we're seeing tonight in the Bay Area.

 

La Trix

[+ Lucky]

Cheap labor force? Isn't that what many of us are looking for in hiring hustlers? hehehe And, of course, it isn't usually white guys willing to work for less...either for us or at Wal-Mart.

 

So do we take the high road and not hire these guys so as not to exploit them? Or do we help them follow the immigrant's dream so that their heirs will rise higher? Is it racist if we do? Personally, I don't think so, and I doubt that they do either.

[twinkboylover28]

I was once called a racist because I only hire white twinks. I'm not physically attracted to other races.

 

Why is the percentage of blacks in prison much higher compared to whites? Is it racism if I associate blacks with crime, based on that stat?