Keep that FILTH out of our public institutions!

[BSR]

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Well, no. I haven't read Mein Kampf either, have you? I will confess that I have only been informed by the media about his book's contents. If there's no intolerance in the book, either implicit or explicit, then I'd have no problem with KC reading to children. Though I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with my children hearing him, or Ye, for example, speak, for fear of what might be unscripted.

Not yet, but I'm not trying to ban Mein Kampf from public libraries nor would I ever attempt to because for any student of history to understand Nazism, s/he must read Hitler's manifesto.  Your analogy fails on a number of levels. 

Wokety-wokes are banning the reading of Kirk Cameron's book.  I'm guessing the vast majority of supposedly "enlightened" book-banners, like you, has never read it.

By his own admission and by even laymen's observation, Kanye West is mentally ill.  Your comparison of Kanye to Cameron fails as badly as your Mein Kampf analogy.

Edited December 13, 2022 by BSR
Had to delete paragraph about religious beliefs

[Guest]

5 hours ago, WilliamM said:

The. book is required reading in history and/ political science courses in colleges.

Beyond that,  it is the book to read to understand Hitler

I would definitely be revolted by anyone who's read it other than as an academic exercise. I certainly hope that's why MBD read it--not as something that's appropriate for children to hear or read. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BSR said:

Not yet, but I'm not trying to ban Mein Kampf from public libraries ...

I've never called for the banning of any book, be it KC's or Mein Kampf, from any library. I will also admit that I haven't read his book, so I'm basing my opinions on it from what I've read about it. If I've been misinformed, than I'm wrong on that score. That being said, I would not encourage reading to children anything which might either make them feel uncomfortable about themselves/future selves (perhaps as Jews or as Lesbians, for example) or make them feel other people need to conform to their personal values. And I can't imagine any drag queen saying or performing anything of an inappropriate adult nature in front of children.

Is there anyone here who would disagree that libraries and bookstores shouldn't let Ye hold readings of Mein Kampf for children? I should probably read KC's book, just to be better informed, but I hope everyone would be uncomfortable over the suggestion that some people read certain books. Would @BSR really feel there's no limit as to what children should be read?

[+ WilliamM]

16 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I would definitely be revolted by anyone who's read it other than as an academic exercise. I certainly hope that's why MBD read it--not as something that's appropriate for children to hear or read. 

Who mentioned children reading Hitler?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, WilliamM said:

Who mentioned children reading Hitler?

No one. You totally missed the point again. The point is that certain books contain hateful statements, and almost everyone would agree that children should not be exposed to such writings, even, and especially, if the hateful statements are couched with the suggestion of religious righteousness.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

That being said, I would not encourage reading to children anything which might either make them feel uncomfortable about themselves/future selves (perhaps as Jews or as Lesbians, for example) or make them feel other people need to conform to their personal values.

I know you’re a reasonable man, but let’s look at this in a different view.  So much of classic western literature is geared toward developing or awaking a set of values…usually aligned with a Judeo-Christian ethic…is all literature inappropriate?   Hell, forget literature…those cheesy Hallmark movies and @samhexum’s favorite “The Golden Girls” do the same thing!  How is KC’s book any different than this?

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

And I can't imagine any drag queen saying or performing anything of an inappropriate adult nature in front of children.

Interesting.  I guess you don’t recall the broohaw this summer where the family friendly drag show on pride week in Dallas had young kids dancing with drag queens in front of a sign “It ain’t gonna lick itself!”   come on.  Drag is inherently sexual and I still don’t understand how, given that it tends to exaggerate feminine features to a point of grossness, that women have been so tolerant of it.

My concern is that you’re threading a needle of propriety that only allows things meeting your personal standard of right and wrong.  

Edited December 13, 2022 by BnaC

[samhexum]

21 minutes ago, BnaC said:

I know you’re a reasonable man, but let’s look at this in a different view.  So much of classic western literature is geared toward developing or awaking a set of values…usually aligned with a Judeo-Christian ethic…is all literature inappropriate?   Hell, forget literature…those cheesy Hallmark movies and @samhexum’s favorite “The Golden Girls” does the same thing!  How is KC’s book any different than this?

Admit it...  the purpose of your post was to challenge me to come up with an appropriate quote.  

I accept your challenge and give you two from the same episode.

But first we have to set the scene...

Dorothy's first-grade class is supposed to stage the play Henny Penny, which will encourage them to learn to read.  But when the kids are quarantined during a measles outbreak, the girls take their places in the production.  Rose agrees to play the part, but is horrified to learn Henny is eaten by a fox at the end.

Dorothy: Rose, the play isn't real. It's a fairy tale. Not all stories end happily, and children have to learn that.
Rose: You call yourself a teacher? It's people like you who are responsible for all the evil on this planet.
Dorothy: I guess I had that coming.

 

Dorothy: Look, Rose, if you don't do the part, there won't be any play. Now, this is a project that I care about deeply, but I don't want you doing it for my sake, Rose. Do it for the kids. It's a chance to get them reading.
Rose: All right, all right, I'll do it. And not just for the kids. I just feel it's time I gave something back to the chicken community. After all, a chicken once saved my life. [exits]
Blanche: They are the stupidest birds.

[pubic_assistance]

14 hours ago, BnaC said:

Isn’t the core issue the fact that prejudging the content based on his Christian beliefs is a form of inherent intolerance??   It seems that complete intolerance of Christians is “justifiable” under a perversely justified double standard….at least from my view.  

This sort of behavior always fascinates me.

*I want people to stop being intolerant toward me so I can now be intolerant of them.*

Too many gays subscribe to this sociopathic behavior.

 

[+ WilliamM]

11 hours ago, samhexum said:

Admit it...  the purpose of your post was to challenge me to come up with an appropriate quote.  

I accept your challenge and give you two from the same episode.

But first we have to set the scene...

Dorothy's first-grade class is supposed to stage the play Henny Penny, which will encourage them to learn to read.  But when the kids are quarantined during a measles outbreak, the girls take their places in the production.  Rose agrees to play the part, but is horrified to learn Henny is eaten by a fox at the end.

Dorothy: Rose, the play isn't real. It's a fairy tale. Not all stories end happily, and children have to learn that.
Rose: You call yourself a teacher? It's people like you who are responsible for all the evil on this planet.
Dorothy: I guess I had that coming.

 

Dorothy: Look, Rose, if you don't do the part, there won't be any play. Now, this is a project that I care about deeply, but I don't want you doing it for my sake, Rose. Do it for the kids. It's a chance to get them reading.
Rose: All right, all right, I'll do it. And not just for the kids. I just feel it's time I gave something back to the chicken community. After all, a chicken once saved my life. [exits]
Blanche: They are the stupidest birds.

 

Who isDorothy

[samhexum]

2 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

Who isDorothy

Well, of course, the most famous Dorothy of all time is Dorothy "Tootie" Ramsey, the youngest girl from THE FACTS OF LIFE... 

 

[Marc in Calif]

Brave Books, the publisher and chief promoter of Cameron's book, says this about the main goal of its titles:

Instill Timeless Values

• Love of God & country
• Honesty, bravery, kindness
• Perseverance, self-control
• And more

The publisher also says this at the top of the page for Cameron's book:

Book of December

As You Grow

As You Grow, our December book, is written by the legendary Kirk Cameron. This fun story with brilliant art teaches the Biblical truths of the Fruit of the Spirit. Follow Sky Tree's journey from a small acorn to a mighty tree that provides shade, sustenance, and lodging!

Children's Books You Can Trust

Morality is ingrained in our children by the age of 10. Leave a lasting legacy by equipping children with Pro-God, Pro-America Values.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Marc in Calif

[Marc in Calif]

1 hour ago, WilliamM said:

Who isDorothy

Take a look at samhexum's tagline at the end of his posts.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, BnaC said:

I know you’re a reasonable man, but let’s look at this in a different view.  So much of classic western literature is geared toward developing or awaking a set of values…usually aligned with a Judeo-Christian ethic…is all literature inappropriate?   Hell, forget literature…those cheesy Hallmark movies and @samhexum’s favorite “The Golden Girls” do the same thing!  How is KC’s book any different than this?...

I guess you don’t recall the broohaw this summer where the family friendly drag show on pride week in Dallas had young kids dancing with drag queens in front of a sign “It ain’t gonna lick itself!”   come on.  Drag is inherently sexual...

I would definitely disagree that drag is inherently sexual. You yourself said that a drag show can be family friendly. It doesn't sound like the drag queen was wearing that sign, from your description. One can expect a lot of risqué messages on T-shirts and all around during a Pride celebration. No child would understand the unstated message of that sign unless an adult were to carefully explain such a statement.  

No one is criticizing Judeo-Christian ethics in general, nor suggesting that people aren't entitled to express their opinions. KC, however, holds a minority, non-inclusive opinion on Bible messaging--one low on tolerance and inclusivity. Most Christians, for example, believe Christ freed them of the religious edicts of the Old Testament (i.e. Levicticus), and don't feel obligated to follow prohibitions such as avoiding pork, shrimp, scallops, cotton/polyester blends, homosexuality, and not circumcising baby boys. 

KC's book is not simply an innocent book such as Good Night Moon or Where the Wild Things Are. Its purpose is obviously to indoctrinate into his specific image of Christianity--a fairly intolerant image. Many libraries are balking at his message of non-inclusivity. I'm sure that if a right-wing Muslim held hostile beliefs regarding non-Muslim infidels, they'd turn him down as well. KC obviously seeks to stir the pot and/or spread his narrow-minded view of Christianity (not so much on Christ's actual teachings). He's not simply trying to entertain children. His readings would be bound to instill negative feelings on a number of children.

[samhexum]

1 hour ago, Marc in Calif said:

Brave Books, the publisher and chief promoter of Cameron's book, says this about the main goal of its titles:   Instill Timeless Values

The publisher also says this at the top of the page for Cameron's book:

As You Grow, our December book, is written by the legendary Kirk Cameron.

I guess humility is not a timeless value, since I assume the legend approved this.

Edited December 13, 2022 by samhexum
just for the hell of it

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

You yourself said that a drag show can be family friendly.

to clarify - I do not believe it was family friendly...apologies for not using "" to make that clear.  The show falsely described it as being that way....it ain't gonna lick itself...I suppose they could have covered the neon sign with a sheet, turned it off...but they had it central and alit....

 

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

KC, however, holds a minority, non-inclusive opinion on Bible messaging--one low on tolerance and inclusivity.

I think that the question is whether or not his book is intolerant....that's still not established...NOT whether his faith is inappropriate to read that book.  Equal time means that we could do an investigation into all the drag queens doing story time at libraries to see if they live a virtuous and inclusive life free of intolerance and inappropriate attitudes toward adults or children...right?

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

Its purpose is obviously to indoctrinate into his specific image of Christianity--a fairly intolerant image.

I disagree...it's STILL NOT ESTABLISHED THAT THERE'S ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN HIS BOOK.   Christianity is inherently inclusive even though some people identify as Christian in name and not action...

I have deep respect for you, your articulate positions, and your civility in debate...but you have still not substantiated your conclusions that you've relied on other biased sources to make.   Am I wrong?

[+ KensingtonHomo]

10 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

This sort of behavior always fascinates me.

*I want people to stop being intolerant toward me so I can now be intolerant of them.*

Too many gays subscribe to this sociopathic behavior.

People arguing for their rights - particularly those guaranteed in The Constitution, such as Freedom FROM religion - need not be tolerant of religious zealots trying to impose their so-called values on the rest of us. 

I'm not interested in acceptance or tolerance from right-wingers or Christian fascists. I want the state to ensure their beliefs are kept to the private sphere. They used to claim to want that, too, but - as you see with Kirk Cameron - he wants to use public spaces to indoctrinate children. I have my beliefs, morals and ethics. I'm not seeking to impose them on anyone else. If I take my nephew to a drag queen story hour, that's between me and his parents, not the GOP, Ben Shapiro or our elected officials. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

8 minutes ago, BnaC said:

The show falsely described it as being that way....it ain't gonna lick itself...I suppose they could have covered the neon sign with a sheet, turned it off...but they had it central and alit....

We all know this was an oversight doing a family-focused event at a venue that is typically for adults. Depending on the age of the children, they will either laugh about it or not understand the reference. Either way, it's irrelevant to everyone except the parents of the children who were in attendance. 

What's remarkable about those arguing in defense of KC is that "drag" or "trans sports" or what have you is a smoke screen for attacking all queer people. SCOTUS is aiming to repeal marriage equality. Drag queens are the warm-up act. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

We all know this was an oversight doing a family-focused event at a venue that is typically for adults. Depending on the age of the children, they will either laugh about it or not understand the reference. Either way, it's irrelevant to everyone except the parents of the children who were in attendance. 

What's remarkable about those arguing in defense of KC is that "drag" or "trans sports" or what have you is a smoke screen for attacking all queer people. SCOTUS is aiming to repeal marriage equality. Drag queens are the warm-up act. 

The issue isn’t drag queens….they’ve been around for a loooooong time.  
The issue in this thread is drag events in public venues and equal access.   Please don’t deflect.

beyond that, you make a LOT of unsubstantiated presumptions in your comment.  I don’t think it was an oversight (my own presumption…because if it was, the organizers would have to be stupid), the kids were under ~8 (that is a fact, the coverage is all over the internet), and I do not think SCOTUS is aiming for gay marriage (because they themselves said so).

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 minute ago, BnaC said:

The issue in this thread is drag events in public venues and equal access.   Please don’t deflect.

 

Equal access ends when the person in question wants to impose their religion on others. Drag queens reading “Good Night Moon” is a secular activity, what Cameron was proposing was not. 
 

My presumptions are based on my experiences. You’d be surprised what gets overlooked when a venue is repurposed. 
 

8 year olds will likely giggle at the sign. 
 

SCOTUS said Roe was settled law, and look how that turned out. And they’re looking at challenges to Ogberfell just like they’re granting hearings to cases that would allow businesses to discriminate against queer people. 

[BSR]

46 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

People arguing for their rights - particularly those guaranteed in The Constitution, such as Freedom FROM religion

The copy & paste text of the 1st Amendment:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I don't know where you picked up freedom from religion, but "freedom from religion" is nowhere in the US Constitution.

[+ WilliamM]

21 hours ago, Unicorn said:

No one. You totally missed the point again. The point is that certain books contain hateful statements, and almost everyone would agree that children should not be exposed to such writings, even, and especially, if the hateful statements are couched with the suggestion of religious righteousness.

My friend, television has been available in the morning since TheToday Show started in the early 1950s when children were preparing to go to school. 

They heard about the death of  Stalin, and watched sad events every where

[Todd Jenkins]

1 hour ago, KensingtonHomo said:

SCOTUS is aiming to repeal marriage equality.

Calm your tits, henny. This is no longer an issue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/us/politics/biden-same-sex-marriage-bill.html

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

Do you know what I don't like on pizza... Pepperoni.

I can tolerate a little pineapple with bacon, but not a lot.  I've yet to try anchovies.

Goat cheese and mushroom pizza is surprisingly good.

[samhexum]

7 minutes ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

Do you know what I don't like on pizza... Pepperoni.

I can tolerate a little pineapple with bacon, but not a lot.  I've yet to try anchovies.

Goat cheese and mushroom pizza is surprisingly good.

Unless Kirk Cameron or RuPaul have come out (sorry for the terminology, Kirk) against pizza, I don't see how this post fits in this thread.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 hour ago, BSR said:

The copy & paste text of the 1st Amendment:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I don't know where you picked up freedom from religion, but "freedom from religion" is nowhere in the US Constitution.

So you don’t understand the Constitution. That’s okay. There are lots of books about it, but I’ll give you a hint: the key word is “establishment.”